doesn't evolution take millions of years?

It was like having 'out of body' (OBE) holidays....

taking the mind... the soul into newer updated vessals... our sense of identity sense of self is with the energetic mind..spirit... soul... not of the physical body... Note, how it is said that our soul.. enters the body just a short while before birth... and that the soul has to learn how to meld with rewire itself to the earthly body to learn 'work' it... use it's hands...crawl... walk....

Note how there are many tales of possession... multipersonalities... avatars...

I read an interesting book once... of how Jesus... was perhaps a spirit possession... avatar... of the body Joseph junior... how Jesus started off following his father's footsteps of becoming a carpenter...but the Walk -in ???....spiritual possession with God's chosen spirit had to learn how best to adapt... how Jesus roamed the earth learning ... teaching... his inne innate wisdom until his more well known times mentioned in the bible...

but then again... Mary... impregnated by an angel.. early IVF ??? to create a superior powerful child suitable for this task of bringing Light and Wisdom to the earth...
How Jesus' memory... mind was activated... telepathically... inspirationally...??? or was born 'fully aware' of all knowledge.. of spirit...enlightened..

with paranormal abilities....

If you read studies of the Koran...and compare them them to our biblical studies... it appears that Mary too had a mystical birth... beginning...

http://www.newstatesman.com/200512190021

Evolution not forced takes millions of years, the next logical step for any intelligent species is to on it's own terms perfect itself once it has reached a certain level of technological and scientific advancement.

Humans as they are now on their own without the aid of science will not really change all that much in say a 100,000 years from now. This however is not the case and this time period between now and 2100 will be the time period which determines whether we are truly meant to survive as a species. We have naturally evolved to where we needed to be and the next step for our evolution will be taken on our own terms as we push forward.

We have survived just fine the way we are. We do not need to mess with nature's plan to survive. We do not need to 'perfect' ourselves. We are fine the we are.

Self evolution is natures plan.

While you may believe we are fine the way we are we do need evolve if we are to survive past the expiration date of this planet.

Fact is if nature did not intend for us to be able to achieve such self advancement it would not be possible for us to do so. We either self evolve and branch out into the unknown or go the way of the dinosaur. Enhancing ourselves has always been our strong suit, ever since the beginning of our species.

For example humanity makes clothing to protect ourselves from harm, we make weapons to protect ourselves, we make medication to heal ourselves. All of this because we needed to adapt to our surroundings and threats.

In this time we realize the importance of branching out and our will to survive is so strong that we will do what ever it takes to ensure this. While you may not yet understand the concept or simply refuse to accept them you are not alone. You and people like you who refuse to embrace the future of humanity will all be extinct by this time next century as we further push the bounds of our limitations.

Humans were not designed to fly yet we do, humans were not designed to breath under water yet we can, and all of this is a result of our ingenuity.

The odds have always been stacked against our survival and even the fact we exist as intelligent the way we are was statistically improbable. Humanity has and always will strive to beat the odds and if we survive the next 100 to 200 years we will have beaten these odds.

Bull.

Natural humans extinct by this time next century? Never.

We can build generation ships to colonize other worlds. We do not need to destroy are humanity in order to survive.

Who knows the Law of Attraction?

I've watched and read about this for a while. Realllly interesting... Now why am I asking?

If you know about this, and you believe this and kind of studied this subject... I want to know, can you achieve immortality using your mind.

I've think further or maybe otherwise then just the Law of Attraction. If your a totally believer, I sort of think it may be possible?

Would you say I'm insane when I think that magic and prayers and miracles and asking your personal angels your desires, all the same thing? I think so...

If you take all the religions and so on and find the thing that they all have the same about... There is alot of stuff, yes, but they all have the top same thing. A god or plenty gods.
Is this merely a coincidence? I don't know, I'm just stating what I have been thinking the last few weeks. They all have someone higher then themselves or believe in a higher self, ain't that true?
I've been thinking after watching 'the Secret', if you may think and get everything you want... Is it not like you are god in a way? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm a god and your a god. God to me is something kind of deferent now then it was before. I believe now in thoughts and actions. God and the Devil is something deferent to me. God is like the good thoughts of your mind and the devil is just the oppisite.

Now if that is so, like the Law of Attraction you have to visualize and believe. Like they say in the movie you have to be one with it, you have to act, visualize and feel like you have it. They say it helps to talk it out aloud and ask directly for it. Now come on, ain't that the same as a prayer? Or maybe magic? Or maybe the thing I hear recently everyone's talking about there personal angels, you have to ask them also and connect with them and all that sorts of thing...

There is much things to tell what I'm been thinking about really deeply, wich I won't tell now.

My point is, if you can believe so hard and actually know it, can you be immortal by only thinking it. Psychologically and scientifically, I would highly doubt it because you know the drill about no one has ever achieve it and so on and so on and the thing is you never ever seen someone live that long before, now have you? That sticks with your mind and that may be the hardest thing ever to let go of it. It's like thinking you'll be off to the SUN for the vacation... You would never be able to do that, now would you? That's mentally and fisically insane. So do you think, it would be ever possible?

One thing for sure, the human being progress slowly and slowly, more and more... If you where to say I'm going to fligh to England a few centuries back, they would probaly laughed as there is no tomorow lol... If you said something simple like bungie jumping and explained it to them, the would have been insane to try it or would think that you are insane to even think that would have worked. They didn't even know such thing as a light bulp... Now come on, what is lying ahead of us? No one knows...

But anyways It is late, verrrry late and need my beauty sleep so I'm off then...

Lizzy out

Is immortality achievable?

I assume that you do not believe in the soul or the after-life. For those that do believe, immortality already exists. The vehicle that you're driving now is only good for about 84 years. (Age may vary depending on the way you live.) After it dies and is towed out to pasture, you'll get a new one from another nation. That's why it's called reincarnation.

If you take all the religions and so on and find the importance of branching out, immortality already exists. You can cheat death. If you take every atom within your earthly, physical body, immortality could work, due to the importance of branching out and our will to survive.

Having studied genetics for a while, I have to say that there really isn't a genetic cause of aging - its simply continuous wear and tear.

You are referring to the telomeres if I am not mistaken - "caps" of repeating sequence at the ends of chromosomes that get shorter with each cell division. Once they wear down to a particular point, the cell can no longer divide.

THIS IS NOT THE CAUSE OF AGING. It contributes to it, as older people's telomeres are shorter and fewer of their cells can divide. There are two main things to remember, however. FIRST, these telomeres are an anti-cancer defense. If a cell mutates in such a way that it divides uncontrollably (which happens more often than you'd think), it very quickly will run across the telomere limit, oftentimes before the mass it produces is a milimeter across and able to cause any problems, and just stops. Cancer can only occur when a cell acquires both mutations leading it to divide, AND mutations causing it to express an enzyme called telomerase (normally only expressed in the testes and ovaries) that rebuilds the telomeres. Keeping all of someone's telomeres long would mean a far higher cancer rate.
SECOND, the genetic damage of aging is not confined to the telomeres. Humans on average produce 3 mutations in their cells per cell division. Most of these are benign but some can cause cells to malfunction or suicide.

It is also important to remember that humans are not JUST cells. We have a whole lot of nonliving scaffolding holding us together. The collagen in our tendons and throughout or bodies can stay there a LONG time without being recycled. This stuff slowly reacts with itself, and degrades. The very complex body structure created through development also cannot repair itself to the same fidelity that the initial production can - scars are a prime exmaple but there is all sorts of damage down to the molecular level. Entropy always wins in the end.

"Ageless" immortality, where the body does not age beyond some point, I'm afraid, seems impossible.

You CAN breed animals to have longer lifespans - at the expense of lower metabolic rates (less damage to the structures) and far less activity (there have been numerous experiments in fruit flies, I have a genetics textbook detailing some of them). That being said no experiment has increased the lifespan of fruitflies more than about 2.5 times, I believe.

<a href="http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=2147#forever" target="_blank">http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=2147#forever</a>

I love his beard.

Yup - it's really simple --- Just tell the body to stop aging ... wow!! Why didn't I think of that!!!

There are so many moral, ethical and economic reasons why this shouldn't be done .... Death is simply a part of the life process .... I find it curious that we seem to fear death to the point that we need/want to avoid it.

Reason #! against this: The planet could support it. Think about that for even 30 seconds. Look at how many people right now are dying from starvation, look at the land issues and property prices. Look at the job and market and economy. Look at un-employment .. need I go on??

Would I like to live a couple of hundreds years to see how humans continue to grow? Yes and no .... and I glad I cannot live that long? Yes -

Here is the blunt truth --> Even IF, sorta, kinda maybe 'engeering' was possible ... ONLY THE RICH WOULD GET IT - U, me and the rest of UM - nope we would not be able to buy into this technology. So is it a good idea? No - not even close.

I personally am almost 300.

I suppose some people think that alchemy and the philosophers stone "Elixir of Life" is something that is actually possible
to achieve as well...

Yes you are! A little math: 2007-1982 = 25 x 12 = 300 months old!

But then that would make me: 2007-1954 = 53 x 12 = 636 twice your age!

But I don't think we are talking months or weeks or days .... I think the topic is years and a lot of them!

But wow ... lets see. 52 x 53 = 2,756 wks old ... and days ... well --- 19,345 days old.

But still I stand by my above post ... that it simply has too many moral, ethical and common sense issues that would show the problems only all to clearly.

WOW, I'm 396 months old! I would have never thought it. lol

<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1233813146005285460" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1233813146005285460</a>
The presentation by Aubrey de Grey at the Edmonton Aging Symposium which took place March 30-31, 2007.

another video of his theories...


There is a lot of him on the internet... he does discuss the idea of being responsible and having less children... that it would take a while to implement.. He mentions that there maybe something in the soil... or use the idea of Bioremediation...



that aging is just an accumulation of mutations that have evolved .. in our molecular pathology... in the biology of our metabolism... that we can intervene to halt or inhibit the cellular damage therefore increase our lifespan...

combine the idea of taking the engineering approach ...and maintaining.. periodically, to halt or clear up any observable cellular mutations with occasional discreet,judicial interventions....so as to not overwhelm the metabolism... hence limit any radical damage.. and allow the human engine to operate efficiently

Cells age. Get over it.

The body was designed to repair itself... to discard damaged cells and replace them...

I was refering to prison cells. They become quite grimy over time.

This could be of interest:

Neanderthal Period - 20 (Homo neanderthalensis is a similar species of modern humans but is still in any case a fellow member of the genus Homo.)
Upper Paleolithic Period - 33 (At age 15: 39 (to age 54))
Neolithic Period - 20
Bronze Age - 18
Classical Greece - 20-30
Classical Rome - 20-30
Pre-Colombian North America - 25-35
Medieval Britain - 20-30
Early 20th Century - 30-40
Current world average - 67

I do not agree with you an some subjects.
But I agree with you on this one 100%.

It might be possible but living an immortal life with Alzheimer's would suck lol. If it was possible to keep the brain in perfect condition ( like say, a 20 year olds brain) it would probably be possible.

As for your physical self getting old, brain transplants would be the only way. I would love to live to be 20,000 years old but never age past 20 years old. Imagine the things you could learn in that time and the things you will see.

Thanks!!


Now what fun would it be if we agreed on everything??

Turritopsis nutricula jellyfish — After becoming a sexually mature adult, the jellyfish Turritopsis nutricula can transform itself back into a child (the polyp stage) using the cell conversion process of transdifferentiation. The Turritopsis nutricula repeats this cycle, meaning that it may be essentially immortal, though it is mortal in the sense that it can be killed

Transdifferentiation

Transdifferentiation in biology takes place when a non-stem cell transforms into a different type of cell, or when an already differentiated stem cell creates cells outside its already established differentiation. Developmental biologist and biochemist David Tosh has restricted the definition of transdifferentiation to irreversible switches of one differentiated cell type to another. Transdifferentiation is a type of metaplasia, which includes all cell fate switches, including the interconversion of stem cells.

Transdifferentiation takes place in nature in a few specific cases. For example, in salamanders and chickens when the lens of the eye is removed, cells of the iris turn into lens cells. Still, such naturally occurring cases, or even ones created in the laboratory are rare.

Until recently, biologists were not much interested in the matter, believing it to be something without much practical consequence. However, around 2001 biologist Philippe Collas published results that seem to show that some cells can be transformed into other types of cells.

The scientists at the biotechnology firm Nucleotech demonstrated in vitro reprogramming of fibroblasts by first creating tiny pores in the cells through reversible permeabilization and then exposing the permeabilized cells to an extract derived from immune cells containing a mixture of regulatory factors but no genetic material. The reprogrammed cells were removed from the extract, resealed and grown in a culture. As a result, in less than an hour's time the regulatory factors were actively taken up by the nucleus causing the fibroblast cells to express molecules and functions characteristic to immune cells while down-regulating the original cells' typically expressed genes.

Many biologists are still skeptical. They say the transdifferentiation that Collas has shown are not complete - the cells did switch on some of the genes that would be used in their 'new' type but not in their 'old', but they did not switch off all of their old genes. It is still an open question whether transdifferentiation could cause a complete change of cell type, and whether such a change would remain active after the cell has been re-implanted in the body.


Now what if this could somehow be altered a bit and applied into humans with technology?
Not very probable at our current understanding of this! But, with alot more study it very well could be possible.

Any thoughts?


Regards,
Tom

Jjbreen, out of curiosity, is there anything you have faith in? Anything you can believe in without needing it right in front of your face? I personally have a skeptical approach to all paranormal topics, save for astral projection (only because I've experienced this myself) I'm just wondering if, despite the skeptic image you try to project, there is anything you believe in despite a lack of hard evidence. Perhaps an afterlife for example. Note that I'm just curious, this is by no means an attack at sketpics, for I myself am one.

I'm actually not sure what "my personal faith" on this OP Focal point has to do with it? We are not talking about "Immortality In the After Life" - we are talking about it here on earth - of people actually not dying and living longer on planet Earth, than would be healthy for the planet.

So I guess I would ask you to address my points that I posted, instead of the all too often - "take a tangent" don't debate/dialog the point.

A. The planet right now is not able to full support the population it has - with people dying.
....> How much more damage would it do the planet if people stopped dying?
....> We kill the planet's ability to keep us alive - what good is "Living 100's or 1,000's of years" - Once the planet dies - SO DO WE!

B. The technology would basically be available to the "rich & famous" - not to you or me.
...> The Rich the famous and those of "means" or "Blue Bloods" would see to it that it had limited access. Why? For reason A. It would be rationalized, "We" - rich and famous will have the means to care for ourselves for a very long time. The "others" (us) would not have the means to do this. Sad but true, they would be right.

Would B. be morally and ethcally right? Would you be happy w/B.? What about the A and the planet on the slim chance it was smuggled down to the 'common people' -- What happens to the planet, the people and BALANCE OF NATURE THAT MUST ALWAYS BE PROTECTED -- for humanities own sake.

So what do YOU think of the reasonings of A. & B. ?? <-- That's focusing on the topic.

i beleive immortality CAN be achieved but can i ask why you would want immortality?
your still gonna die...just not of old age
someone can still kill you immortal or not.

oh and no two people are equal no matter what the value of their lives are always different
thats why taking someones life for vengeance never beings back anyone.

oh and like a few others said...WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

you didnt exactly ask a question other than your title of the post

I understand your response, as my question was entirely out of context with this thread. By the way, my question was by no means some kind of tactical argument - I personally have no belief in the concept of immortality, nor do I agree with it. Anyways perhaps you'd like to PM me your response? I'm intrigued.

There are lots of legends of those who lived in the underworld... underground... in caves.and tunnel systems... who live to very advanced ages...

If you read up on some of the discussions on Melatonin... which gets produced at night... requires absence of sunlight... it is supposed to increase healing.. longevity....

known as the immortality enzyme...
<a href="http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...p;pdf=y&z=y" target="_blank">http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...p;pdf=y&z=y</a>

<a href="http://lefcms.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/aug2002_medup.html" target="_blank">http://lefcms.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/aug2002_medup.html</a>













So Beauty Sleep ... really is important in looking youthfull!!!!

.. ...this is really spooky!!!!

Well if scientists can find a way to help increase our current life span and health, I'm sure that some day we might be able to find Immortality.

Off to buy some silica tablets!!!!



http://www.visionarymusic.com/

yes, the person who started it was curious about immortality and if its achievable, but i do see where your coming from, he/she shoud be more specific in the original post he/she did.

i belive we are already immortal, as far as i can tell our souls never truly die.

doubt it, it would suck if it did unless they found out a way to stop people ageing as well, it would be skewed up then.

if u used biokinesis you could never age but if u got stabbed in the chest you would die.

There seems to be a kinesis for everything.

Hmm... a month old, does that count as necroposting?

why do you skeptics even insult us when you could easily ignore our posts?

Well I don't think he was really insulting you but it does not help when someone makes a wild claim which is never going to get backed up with any proof.


Also skeptics are interested in this stuff also and are naturally not going to lets things slip into fantasy land.

sorry im new to this forum so i dont know what to say. thanks!

immortality can only be acheived through dieng. [kinda defeats the purpose dont it]

there is a reverence of a lotus wearing dude in egyptian myth who became immortal by dying.

supposedly you have a time limit to figure it out. ido not suggest trying it until dying by accident.

I think immortality is achievable, just not likely. Now if you'll think outside the box and check out my beliefs I'll show ya how.

I really think about combining spirituality and science. I talked about this with my theory on time which also fits here. Take for example one of the big spiritual truths "As above, so below" well the lowest we've gotten is quantum mechanics, now superimpose that on us and you get some interesting explanations to many things. Death is caused by an energetic body trying to maintain it's state, but with each successive intake of new energy, loses the efficiency to absorb it. If you can maintain a high enough energy state you can keep your body at it's original being, Increase that state of energy, while being in balance; you can step out of time. I think time is dependent on the amount of energy present. Now if you take a look at why we can't efficiently absorb new energy..superimpose that on humanity. We've made great strides, but theres still so much wrong with the world that it can't last unless we change it. Our bodies would have to be in "complete harmony" to at least get to the point of maintaining a single age. Even then immortality would be a constant process, that unless kept up with will lead back down to death.

Which is why, I think immortality can become a reality but it probably won't happen.

Blessed be!

Thats not insulting. Thats a true statement. Next we will have cheesekinesis. Its just sad.

Sorry for not reading all 7 pages, I'm simply only slightly interested in this subject, so if I say something that was previously said, forgive me. Is physical immortality possible & achievable> I have no doubt that science will eventually be able to figure out a way to extend the normal life span indefinitely, however, you can't have something like that while we're stuck on this rock called earth because overpopulation would soon be rampant. Probably leading to wars & the deaths of not a few "immortals" as well as others. When we start colonizing other worlds in the future, then their will be a place for that but until then it would only lead to social chaos.

if that was true, the illuminati would already know this and engineer their DNA a little bit using alien technology as well if necessary, but that's not the case, they keep reincarnating into their family. Anyway, what'd be the point in being immortal? Missing out on a beautiful childhood all the time??

This is a tricky question. I think it depends on how one chooses to define immortality. Is it the inability to die by any method or just the ability to perfectly replicate the cells in your body?

No and Yes, respectively.

I don't think it is possible for a human to be immune to death as a result of unnatural causes (i.e a nuclear explosion or massive brain trauma). I do, however, believe that it is within the realm of human physiology to escape the effects of aging and to acquire a perfect immune system. This won't be achieved by evolution or by God as, in my opinion, it is unnatural and would result in an ecological disaster. If it happens it will be due to man tampering with his own genome. I think it is important to remember that immortality is (to me at least) only an attractive trait so long as it is unique.

This is ridiculous. Who are you to declare anything a spiritual truth? Especially a big one. Do you know that is why we die? Or is that a crazy cockamamie theory you subscribe to. If you are going to go about declaring the certifiably insane BS as in the post above, at least add a disclaimer stating that it is a belief and stop trying to express it as fact. Jack***.