Sorry, I thought it was only D&D and video game playing geeks who fantasized that a person with a sword could kill a T-Rex sized reptilian carnivore. Even our illiterate peasant ancestors were not that dumb, which is why the dragons being killed in Medieval art are usually the size of a goat.

Those kids playing those games are silly aren't they. Imagine it. Thinking a guy with a sword could kill a dragon. How asinine of them! If they weren't so ignorant they would believe dragons are real and know that no man could kill one.

yes it is a fantasy game, but it is a game for people to let their minds wander into fantasy, and it gives people a chance to be apart of something...

The oldest of all dragonslaying stories (such as Enki vs. Apsu) were probably territorial disputes between dragons, and probbly bloodless affairs. Marduk vs. Tiamat was simply a fabrication of this earlier story for the god-human son of a dragon god would seem more powerful than the father dragon god. As Anthropologists note, as mankind became more confident his gods became more manlike and the man gods and heroes defeat the older dragon gods.

But understand these people believed the humanoid gods were often larger than the dragons! They thought the bones of mammoths were the bones of thir heroes, and when found, buried them with great honors. The idea of a human sized hero slaying an enormous dragon would have been absurd to anyone up until modern times and the new human gods of semi-literate youth that we call comic book super heroes.

St. George is a bad example for although there was an ancient Roman soldier saint by this name, there was no dragon in his story until the late middle ages when it was simply invented to make his life more interesting, and the dragon-fearing populace embraced this new story. In fact, when the real George lived, dragons were still recognized as the highest of heavenly creatures (seraphim).

However, there are many localized dragon slaying stories that seem to simply be a dragon being a nuisance for several years until finally becomes bored with an area and leaves. The first clever person who notices it is gone then fabricates a story about driving it away in a battle, and over the years this is exaggerated into a dragonslaying story. But the stories were believed becasue everyone 'knew' that dragons were real, with accounts of whole cities seeing them flying, and official, intended to be factual, histories relating how a certain king was eaten by one, etc.

Common sense should dictate "that a guy with a sword" could never 'take down' a tiny brained T-Rex, let alone, an intelligent creature of similar proportions. It is unlikey a human would even have the strength to penetrate so large a creature's keratin scales, just as related in the Leviathan ode, that no human weapon could pierce its body.

But they were just stories though, to me stories arn't tangible evidence there's no way to prove that it actually happened. When indigenous tribes find bones that they don't recognize they usually create a legend, and as it's told over time it gets sensationalized. Also humans are the only species that has the intelligence to bury, and burn their dead, no other animal has that ability, and intelligence to bury or burn their dead.



That's true, but it's a possibility that some tribes could just come by a fossile of a skull or something of an animal that they wouldn't recognize and come up with a legend or some kind of story about it.

Those kids playing those games are silly aren't they. Imagine it. Thinking a guy with a sword could kill a dragon. How asinine of them! If they weren't so ignorant they would believe dragons are real and know that no man could kill one.

And the same logic can apply to dinosaur bones being found and thinking they were dragons. Why is it that the logic of one avoids applying to the logic of the other? Why is one a case of misidentifying bones, and the other not?

Very Simple.

They believed the giant heroes of the past were long since dead because no one ever saw a 'giant' man........ BUT they DID believe giant dragons were STILL very much alive, and casually mentioned them as real animals like any other, including the greatest naturalists of the day. They noted certain places not to sail because dragon attacks were common there. St. Augustine had to admonish his congregation that when they admired the great dragons in the sky, that instead, they should praise the God that created such wondrous creatures. These are all facts. They are history. The only thing we don't have for the final proof are the dragons themselves, becasue they are not cooperating.

You make the assumption humans are the only species who "could be intelligent", but this does not mean you assumption is true. Mankind has essentially been here for a couple of million years. Reptiles have for 250 million. If they did not need tools or constructed shelters we would never know there were intelligent species.

Mankind's religions and beliefs from all over the world state these creatures exist. We still see what may be these creatures all over the world, yet they somehow manage to elude scientific inquiry.

There is much to suggest they are real. A whole world of reports. Maybe they aren't real, but if they are, they have us pegged perfectly. People will continue to see, but the majority will not believe.

Not at all, I was only saying that Human Beings are the only species that have the intelligence to bury and burn their dead, other species can't do that. The only species that comes close to that is the elephant, when they are about to die they usually gather in a single place known as elephant graveyards and die there. Just becuase reptiles have been here longer doesn't really mean that they are intelligent like mankind, they rely on their basic instincts to survive not intelligence.

Very Simple.

They believed the giant heroes of the past were long since dead because no one ever saw a 'giant' man........ BUT they DID believe giant dragons were STILL very much alive, and casually mentioned them as real animals like any other, including the greatest naturalists of the day. They noted certain places not to sail because dragon attacks were common there. St. Augustine had to admonish his congregation that when they admired the great dragons in the sky, that instead, they should praise the God that created such wondrous creatures. These are all facts. They are history. The only thing we don't have for the final proof are the dragons themselves, becasue they are not cooperating.

You make the assumption humans are the only species who "could be intelligent", but this does not mean you assumption is true.

Not at all, I was only saying that Human Beings are the only species that have the intelligence to bury and burn their dead, other species can't do that. The only species that comes close to that is the elephant, when they are about to die they usually gather in a single place known as elephant graveyards and die there. Just becuase reptiles have been here longer doesn't really mean that they are intelligent like mankind, they rely on their basic instincts to survive not intelligence.

Exactly. Just because you've been here for a long time doesn't mean you will evolve to become intelligent. Modern humans have only existed for 200,00 years by the way, not a few million (DC). Insects have been here longer than reptiles (dinosaurs aren't considered "reptiles" by scientists any more I'd like to point out. Their most closely related to birds, NOT reptiles, which you can tell by looking at their bones) and yet they aren't intelligent at all.

Burial of dead does not equate or relate to intelligence you know.

But what I'm saying is that it takes an intelligent creature to even come up with the idea of burying the dead.

But what I'm saying is that it takes an intelligent creature to even come up with the idea of burying the dead.

Perhaps and it does give an explination of why we have not found a dragons coarpse

Perhaps and it does give an explination of why we have not found a dragons coarpse

Dragon corpse, no, but dragon bones would have been found, if they existed.

Now tell me, DC bases his beliefs on misinterpretations of ancient texts. He assumes that any serpent mentioned anywhere in any story refers to a dragon, then assumes that since they were so commonly mentioned in stories, that they must exist. What do you base your beliefs on? What do you offer as an argument that dragons exist?

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. I have said that the "fiery flying serpents" of the Bible appear to be conventional dragons because they are described with arms and legs and wings, and are undoubtedly the dragons on the Holy Temple Menorah.

It is much more than them being "commonly mentioned in stories", it is the fact that ancient and medieval man acknoweledge that they were as real as any other animal. St. Ausgustine had to remind his congregation not to admire them too much, since they were such wondrous creatures. .

Even so, we would have found their bones. Bones don't just get eaten whole because one of a species dies. Animals just don't do that; there's no point to it. Bones are eaten for nutrition when food is hard to come by, and even then, not a lot of animals have strong enough jaw muscles to crush bone. It also takes temperatures of up to 1800 degrees F for HUMAN bones to burn. If any sort of animal tried to spew fire that hot out of it's mouth it would die or burn it's face off. And, assuming dragons are incredibly large with thick scales/armour and are hard-skinned, it would take even HOTTER fires to cremate a dragon skeleton. Plus, I think we'd notice a fire that hot in the middle of nowhere.

Just because something has arms, legs, and wings doesn't make it a dragon, DC. That quote said NOTHING about the seraph looking like dragons. Not anything. It said they were more human than dragon. And weren't the Medieval Ages called the Dark Ages for a reason? The only knowledge people had was what the Church told them, so no, I don't think they would have realized that they were afraid of nothing more than myths. Saints are shown killing dragons to show victory over the Pagans, so the Church would tell people that dragons were real and evil to get them to stay away from Paganism. OF COURSE they would say that. It makes sense from a totalitarian government style point of view, which the Church effectively was.

Many of the legends suggest dragons are extremely long lived, or even immortal. Even scientists state we may someday solve the aging process. Perhaps the dragons, or their 'creator' already did. The whole premise of the intelligent dragons is that they were specifically modified to be the planets ancient 'caretakers' and protectors of mankind, based on uniform ideas through many different dragon legends.

But you are quite unfamiliar with reptilian behavior and physiology. If we acnlowledge our ancesters were correct, and the dragons were intelligent creatures that wanted to hide their existence, but were not 'immortal', they could have completely consumed the bodies of their deceased fellows.

An alligator, for example occasionally eats smaller alligators, and the bones are completely dissolved. Harder objects like claws and teeth that are resistant so stomach acids are still pulverized to nothing, being roiled around with stones in the gizzard like stomach.

So even if dragons are mortal creatures, they would be able to leave literally no trace of their existence except for the multitude of human accounts that they are real creatures. Perhaps they are laughing, knowing full well that no matter what they did, or how many people believed in them in ancient and medieval times, that so long as they consumed their own bodies, and avoied mankind in modern times, no one would ever believe they existed.

Understand as well, that only a tiny fraction of skeletons are ever fossilized.

dragons arent unkillable

if they eat they die

and if it dies you can kill it.

How many mice kill cats in battle?

None, probably. The notion of a human killing a dragon would be equally absurd.

That's probably why the scientist advisors in Jurassic park did not recommend D&D nonsense like cutting the T-Rex's head off with a machete.

And 'real' dragons would not be affected by the 'magical nonsense' of D&D.

Even if they were immortal, their population would increase so dramatically that they would eventually consume all the resources and kill everything on the planet as well as themselves. THAT is why solving the aging process is so harmful to the Earth and our species as a whole. The consequences FAR outweigh the benefits, if any. And you said we should give the ancients more credit, so why are you saying they needed divine assistance to learn how to do the amazing things they were able to accomplish? You also stated the ancients were very mathematically advanced, which could explain WHY they were able to do the things they did.

Also, alligators are not able to eat an alligator bigger than itself and get rid of all traces of it. Who would eat the biggest of the dragons and still not leave a trace? Sure, that method MAY work for small dragons, but NOT for large ones. Even if only a tiny fraction of skeletons are fossilized, if dragons even existed during Medieval times, we SHOULD have the skeleton of a slain dragon. But we don't. So we don't have ANY physical proof of dragons, NOR is it possible for them to completely get rid of their remains completely.

A mouse could kill a cat if it gave the cat rabies. I'm sure that's happened plenty of times too.

There are virtually no diseases transmitted from people to reptiles. And dragons are probably immune from disease, being bio-engineered 'machines', so to speak.

I guess a dragon might accidentally 'choke' on a human if it swallow wrong.. That would probably be the only way a human ever killed a dragon, and this is highly unlikely given the remarkable swallowing ability of reptiles.

I'm starting to see that this is a pointless argument that just keeps going in circles.

I was just about to say that... it almost looks like you've gone from the beginning, to well the beginning again!!

and on the topic of us finding dragon bones, they did evidently, it was sumwere in switzerland er sumthing, i don't know it came up on google when i was looking for info about dragons

Source please? A man in England also has a supposed preserved dragon in a jar, but that was proven to be a fake. Don't think that everything people say on the internet is true, DS, or you'll be in for some nasty ridicule by people who think otherwise and can prove you wrong.

*searches for site that advertised dragon bones* ok.... o and what do you know the site isnt there anymore, Your right Otterwynnd that was probably a fake site, or not proper...

o and now that i've looked for "Dragon Bones" on google This site claims that there is a university in China that holds Dragon Bones and Teeth

I'm starting to see that this is a pointless argument that just keeps going in circles.

Not pointless, just 'unable to discredit'. I know that must be annoying.

Tsk did you not read the last part of my post at all? i mean geez,


to quote myself

Source please? A man in England also has a supposed preserved dragon in a jar, but that was proven to be a fake. Don't think that everything people say on the internet is true, DS, or you'll be in for some nasty ridicule by people who think otherwise and can prove you wrong.

...Still waiting on to see all those sources, DC.

But then, billions of people east and west, the majority of the human race, in fact, STILL believe in religions in which dragons play a prominent role. Of course, those uncomfortable with that fact can, (and have), transformed the dragons into 'cartoon' angels, or whatever else they feel more comfortable with.

Many people believe mankind may have been assisted by some outside force in its formative years. Even though the legends say dragons, most people who subscribe to this idea pretend they really meant 'ancient astronauts'. In fact there was an amazing 'revoution in the late stone age, when all of these early human technologies suddenly blossomed, (and we started worshipping dragons).

ou don't get it. The greatest minds of the catholic chruch acknowledged dragons as living beasts and heavenly creatures. And these writings were between the church leaders themselves, not told to peasants. Open a medieval Bible, the seraphim are depicted as typical western dragons. The illumination show God flies on their backs, terrorizing the disobedient isrealites, are depiected around the throne of God (based on Isaiah), etc. Medieval chruchers were often filled with dragon decoration becasue the seraphim were dragons. If you understood the dragonslaying stories, you would know that they believed the 'evil dragons' were the offspring of Satan, who was believed to be a disobedient dragon among the host of obeident ones. But i am not saying I think that is true. The whole concept of fallen angels and ane 'evil' Satan is stolen from Persian Zoroastrianism and not in the Holy Torah.

Many of the legends suggest dragons are extremely long lived, or even immortal. Even scientists state we may someday solve the aging process. Perhaps the dragons, or their 'creator' already did. The whole premise of the intelligent dragons is that they were specifically modified to be the planets ancient 'caretakers' and protectors of mankind, based on uniform ideas through many different dragon legends.

No guy, you haven't read into the subject very 'deeply' at all. If you did, you would find eyewitness accounts of people actually seeing the living creatures, not simply some bones.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. I have said that the "fiery flying serpents" of the Bible appear to be conventional dragons because they are described with arms and legs and wings, and are undoubtedly the dragons on the Holy Temple Menorah.

It is much more than them being "commonly mentioned in stories", it is the fact that ancient and medieval man acknoweledge that they were as real as any other animal. St. Ausgustine had to remind his congregation not to admire them too much, since they were such wondrous creatures. .

I was just about to say that... it almost looks like you've gone from the beginning, to well the beginning again!!

and on the topic of us finding dragon bones, they did evidently, it was sumwere in switzerland er sumthing, i don't know it came up on google when i was looking for info about dragons

Not pointless, just 'unable to discredit'. I know that must be annoying.

But then, billions of people east and west, the majority of the human race, in fact, STILL believe in religions in which dragons play a prominent role.

Modern belief in the Chinese dragon

In modern times, belief in the dragon appears to be sporadic at best. There appears to be very few who would see the dragon as a literally real creature. The worship of the Dragon Kings as rulers of water and weather continues in many areas, and is deeply ingrained in Chinese cultural traditions such as Chinese New Year celebrations. Dragon kites are also used in these celebrations. Dragons are also very widely used in Chinese arts and crafts creation. It means blessings and power. In Chinese antiques, dragons are nearly everywhere.