This topic is gonna involve christianity. If you Don't like it; dont read it. Also I am talking about revivals without prayer or faith.



Why I don't believe in "Oh, I came back from the dead..." statements anymore:
Not too long ago, I used to be amazed at the reports of people coming back from the dead and saying that they saw "Heaven". But now, after being 'enlightened' by my pastor,
i've realized that it is IMPOSSIBLE for people to see heaven. First of all, no one knows what heaven is like. If they said that they saw a "bright light up ahead" well that could just be a dream he/she was having or maybe it could be God. I've seen a bright light in my dream b4 (which I dreamt twice) which I believe to have been God. But anyways, I still don't think people just come back from the dead without the power of god. Anyways if you have questions or objections i will be glad to curse at y- I mean be open minded an answer them.

See ya

I'm curious to see how your pastor explains John, Ezekial, or any of the others in the Bible that saw Heaven.

no doubt he pointed to the verse that says

"However, as it is written: 'No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him'" - 1 Corinthians 2:9 (NIV)

This is a wonderful example of pulling verses out of context. People who use this verse to support your statement fail to look at the next verses.

"but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. ." - 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 (NIV)

Noone has seen Heaven, but by God's Spirit. When you take the entire statement and what it's saying, it clearly says that noone has seen Heaven on his own, that these things are only revealed to us by the Spirit.

The thing is you have only come to this conclusion after being "enlightened" by your Pastor, it hasn't been enlightenment under your own steam or by some experience of your own.

If your Pastor is completely convinced that such a thing could not happen and you have respect for him or her, there is a high possibility that you will eventually see their view, especially if your own view at the time was one of "not sure one way or the other".

People that have had NDE will not care less whether you believe them or not, in fact they will not give two hoots if anybody believes them as they will know what they saw and I think it would be disrespectful and it could also be seen as patronising, should someone who has never had such an experience to describe it as "stupid" or "not truthful".

I have never had a NDE, however, I would not disbelieve someone who had had such a thing happen, after all, who am I to say that what they have experienced is a lie? If I did that, I would, in effect, be putting myself above anyone in that situation and I am not of the opinion that I know all there is to know (in fact, I probably know next to nothing) - it sure is fun learning if the mind is kept open though

I drowned on a family vacation when I was 10 years old in Panama City Beach Florida. What I experienced then was not even close to a "dream." I've had many many dreams, & I have something to compare them too- and know there is a huge difference, unlike yourself.
This experience, as brief as it may have been, impacted my entire life. It has made me who and what I am.


O' & btw, there was no tunnel or bright light.



and you're preacher needs some spiritual enlightenment himself. No offense.

Don't say that stuffs.

You're right i've never experienced it. Oh and by the way for everyone when i mean see heaven i mean see heaven without a uhh lets say "supernatural force." Also you shouldn't be dissin my pastor because i dont think you should be criticizing someone has gone through alot more than you have.

I doubt he has.

O I"m dissing your pastor all right! You send the message that Sunni says when he don't know his butt from a hole in the ground about something, then he shouldn't preach about it as if he does---- Got that?!!!

Good!!!

The truth of it, that preacher of yours couldn't light a candle near me--

waddle along quack-- shoo-- shoo

Rofl xD *high fives sunni*

errhrrm forum guide lines no personal attacks
Well i doubt you're christian so w/e

How is she disrespecting your beliefs?

"waddle along quack-- shoo-- shoo " wow wth are u some elementry school kid... jeez you should really get something better to say or not say it at all
This is also why i dont like messing in the spituality section because theres always someone who thinks they're better than you. Sigh...

Were you aware the rules apply to YOU as well... that you're are no exception?


YOU assumme too much--

but ive never flamed you. you got no proof.

So you admit that people could go to Heaven with 'supernatural force' or God's influence. Who are you to determine when God is influencing and when He is not?

Cryyyyyyyy much?

Never said i was the judge... You're right i guess God could use them to spread His kingdom. God is unpredictable. Anyways this topic getting way too aggresive...

Aww yeah im just so sad im just soooo so so soooo hurt. I'm gonna go into my closet now...

I thought id give you something you could mentally absorb without causing a hemorrhage.
apparently you've had nothing to say from the time you got here...

and since you've admitted that you've never experienced such an experience, then you shouldn't be so enthusiastic on the subject. You know nothing about it, including your preacher man. Anyhoo.

Ok... So you drowned... And i guess u had CPR... And you had dreams... You know maybe u shoulda been more specific...

No, I shouldn't. I told you I drowned & experienced something remarkable. There were no dreams. I've had dreams & nightmares, sleep paralysis, etc,. since then, and what I experienced that day was NOT/ IS NOT in comparison. Simple enough.

Well, according to the Bible the world is aggressive against Christianity. I don't strive to appear superior to anyone, or to elevate myself whatsoever, yet people think what they will and aggession comes naturally. Do not be surpised when it surfaces. I am glad that you see that God can work through dreams, visions and near death experiences. I urge you to seek God in every aspect of your life, always through the power of Christ Jesus.

God bless.

j/k about the cry stuff ya know. xD

okay great i say this topic should be closed.

Well back on topic, I do believe in that stuff. God decides when it's time for you to pass on I guess some people aren't supposed to die when it seems like they should. So God keeps them alive, and miracles happen.

I think you lost some credibility when you told us your PASTEUR enlightened you. Most people here are very much into finding things out for themselves, rather than being TOLD how it is (it being whatever the topic is).

Expect this type of reaction from folks when you approach a topic like this. I think closing this is a good idea, and IF you want to address the issue of WHY you don't believe the reports you hear about near-death experiences, start a thread that states exactly that, rather than a vague "i don't believe in..."

back to the origional thought....what did your pastor do or say that enlightened you?...i am really curious about how you pastor did that...i would like to research his ideas on the subject...i am a firm believer in the power of God...
waiting you reply...i guess you were here for a serious talk...or just to pound people like sunni for having their own ideas?...sunni is very smart and if sunni posts about an experience i see no reason not to take it serious and truthful....on the other hand, who are you to come in here and make a declaration without backing it up?...can you?...can you show us your enlightenment or are you "blowin smoke"?

randomhit10

Can't believe as a pagan I'm going to throw my two cents in but here goes. I thought that no one sees heaven until Jesus comes back. That basically everyone who has died is dead, but that on Judgement Day everyone will be resurrected (either spiritually or physically) and then and only then does anyone actually get into heaven. That you'll have everlasting life etc. but not till the second coming, till then everyone is basically dead, their spirit is in holding till then.

Now having said that, let me say that I do believe in NDE and I don't subsribe to the bible at all. Just that the OP was using a pastor to reference this and that is how I have read the whole thing works.

I don't want to go and look for quotes now, but
in the Bible people go to Sheol (greek Hades) , which is composed of paradiese and hell
Kingdom of heaven (where God lives) is not Paradise, Paradise is where dead people live.

the paradise, or heaven from god is not in existence now, nor will it be until the end of days.

ummm, they saw it like the rest of us would.
imagination.

I'd like to jump in here and say that I never thought anyone could get to heaven without God's influence anyway, which is supernatural any way you look at it (since God is a supernatural being). Death may be physical but what happens to you after that, is spiritual... since you're in a spiritual form, no longer a physical body.

Also, I'd like to say there have been people that have died on the operating table, have floated to the ceiling while clinically dead... have seen their own bodies lying on the operating table, only to miraculously return to their bodies (come back to life). They have been able to give specific details of things they saw or heard in the operating room, that they could not have seen or heard with their physical bodies due to being dead. So there seems to be some evidence of people's souls leaving their bodies after the body dies (I know, there will still be those that argue what "evidence"?)... anyway, those people did not describe heaven, but described the operating room. Many that have out of body experiences during death like this will report seeing their bodies and surroundings, not heaven. However, I realize there are just as many people that report seeing the bright light and even stairways leading to heaven. I've not actually heard anyone report heaven itself, just something that seems to be a passage TO heaven. The bright light, I believe is a passage. Some see stairs, or even other deceased family members, etc. that come to greet them. My point is that I've never heard anyone describe heaven itself... just a journey that seems to be taking them there but they don't seem quite all the way there yet. That is what I think happens. As I don't think anyone has actually seen heaven who hasn't remained there. That is, other than the ones in the Bible that were describing it -- but that was visions.

I think what Sunni experienced was 100% real and no one should run it down. By the way, Sunni, you never really told us what happened (other than you drowned and had some kind of experience while dead). I'd love to hear the details of your experience if you don't mind sharing it. You can send me a personal message if you don't want to post it here for everyone. Or... not tell me at all. I'll understand that too. But it's sure a great testimony! I've shared very personal experiences of mine on these forums. I think it helps others. Please do share. I think it's a great thing. Well, not great that you died, but you know, all that other stuff is great.

I've never had a near death experience, but I do know this -- when you're dead, you can't imagine. You sort of have to be alive for that.

True. xD

man you are totally relentless aren't you. you've added absolutely nothing to this forum. But wait perhaps I'm wrong, maybe you have had an NDE and you are speaking from experience. Why else would you comment, how careless of me.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or let me know where I can read more about this if I happen to be sort of right...!
I thought Near Death Experiences were found to be caused by the hallucinogen, DMT, being released into the dying body?

That's one idea, although there are others, but certain people have no will to listen to something which imposes on their preconcieved beliefs.



This might sound absolutely crazy...but maybe, just maybe there's no comparison because when you dream, you don't die. Different circumstances, different cognitive function.

U know actually from listening to people i have no clue what this topic is about anymore lol. I think i worded this entire topic wrong. maybe i should have said that i dont believe in people who say that when they had an NDE they saw heaven.

You can't ever say that one person has gone through more than another, no matter how much you respect and admire them. Sometimes your judgement will become clouded when in this situation. Just remember that your Pastor is human, don't put him on a pedestal.


Why judge anyone whether they are Christian or not? Everyone will have experiences and those experiences are not put aside for one denomination of the Church.




I agree with you Eqgumby. Nothing will be so enlightening as when it happens personally to the person involved. If someone tells me something is so, unless it feels right in my heart I have no option but to dismiss it and I have always taken it for granted that other people do the same. I guess some people don't though