Okay... I wasn't even going to post anything about this... because this whole issue in my opinion should be dropped... but I need to vent my views.

I dont' see why everyone (the media) is making such a big deal of this... first of all ... that is HIS child... and I don't believe for one minute that he had any intentions of harming his child... and further more... his child DID NOT get hurt.

I know people are going to say <whiney voice> "but what if he had dropped his baby... what if the croc caught Mr. Irwin off guard and snatched the baby"... but you know... it didn't .

People need to mind their own business ... and further more... if they want to help children... take the ones that are neglected and starved and live with drug dealer parents and help those poor children.

Being around crocodiles is a way of life for the Irwins and that is their culture.

Take for instance ... native people that still live in Africa... if Americans knew what kind of life those kids lived ... they would scream child abuse too. Those kids eat worms and grubs... and raw meat... and run around naked, swim in alligator and crocodile infested waters... play with wild animals.. run around barefoot... But that is their culture and their way of life...

They need to leave Steve Irwin alone!!!

Whew... I feel better now!

In case you aren't up to date on the story I am referring to... check out the link below:

The Crocodile Hunter Link

But then again, people would be fairly outraged if a miner took his infant son down a mine, for example, or a formula one driver took his baby for a spin around Imola, or a fire fighter went storming into a blazing block of flats with their little kid. All of those people could equally claim that they know what they are doing.

I find your suggestion that people need to mind their own business frankly appalling. Would you mind your own business if you saw somebody physically abusing a baby around on the street?

You're obviously fond of Mr Irwin, and you're obviously not a mother. The fact is that he did something reckless and highly irresponsible, and he deserves everything he gets.

I don't know what I would do if I went to the zoo and the lion trainer had his child in the cage with him. I would definitely scream bloody murder over it, though. It is negligence. He wouldn't have a job there much longer, I can tell you that.

Oh... Aslan... I am so sorry that you find my comments appalling.... but I won't lose any sleep over it.

I see your point....with all of your examples... but it can go both ways... just as I pointed out with native children who still live the old ways...and no ... I am not necessarilly fond of Mr. Irwin.. I would feel this way no matter who it was.

And .. you are correct.. I don't have children... but that fact doesn't necessarilly mean that I would like to see children harmed.......

And If I did see a child being abused I would most certainly turn them in... but in my opinion... Mr Irwin did not abuse his child... he was not harmed.

The Media has way too much fun with issues like this.... I still say leave the man alone!

If you come into brief contact with a female bear in the woods....it probably will be inconsequential....unless she has cubs....

....I think your views would be different if you had children...

Eric Clapton lost his 4 year old son due to an accidental fall from a high-rise balcony.




(BTW....please explain Lileth to me...never heard of her before)

I have two children and I am very protective over them. The difference between Steve Irwin and people that live in the jungle and eat grubs and worms is that Steve has a choice. He has a choice to protect his children or not. I was totally against what he did. A child that is one month of age is absolutely helpless. He cannot turn and run. He cannot pick up a stick and slap the croc with it. I wonder how Steve would like it if I was to temporarily paralyze him and and throw him in with a croc and a dead chicken. At least he would already have the knowledge as to what kind of danger he is in.

It is sad to say that my children and I enjoyed watching his programs. Too bad we will not be watching them anymore.

There was a diference betwen Irwin and Jackson. The first is a profecional and know the level of risk of his actions. He knows that the baby wasnt in danger, and if anything had happens, he knows how to control the situation. But jackson is a wimp whiout muscle, and it was a miracle that the baby hasnt slip of his hands.

Just my two eggs......

Is it wrong if parents shelter and mollycoddle their children so that they will be bullied at school?

Is it wrong if parents drink alcohol or smoke around their children?

Is it wrong if parents allow their children to eat junk food, giving them serious health problems?

Is it wrong if parents keep a baby in the same house as a large dog?

I think maybe, but all of these things happen all the time and nobody bats an eyelid.
Raising children should be at the discretion of the parents and as long as the child is not actually being physically or mentally abused and other people should keep their noses out.

What's a terrible blight on society, is that most abuse happens at home behind closed doors ~ a lot of that because we give the parents rights over their children, but they are expected to act responsively and lovingly. Steve Irwin demonstrated his 'parenting skills' in public for all the world to see. I don't think he needed to show us how confident he is around crocs, by involving his baby.

Heres my 2 pennies worth.

Steve Irwin and Terri have been around crocks and such for practicly all their lives. Steves mother(God rest her soul.) worked with crocks and other animals too. She and Steves father tought him well. And dont you think that if the baby was in any danger that Terri would have spoken up and advised Steve NOT to take the baby near the crocks??

My first reaction when I saw the footage about it was, "Oh, I didnt know Terri had another baby. Thats cool." I enjoy watching his shows, and what he did wont stop me from continuing to watch him.

He was in control of the situation, so let him be.

And before one of you ask, YES, I am a mother, I have 3 children.

I wonder what would have happened if Roy, with "Siegfried and Roy", had a 1 month old child in his hand when he was mauled by that Tiger. Roy has been dealing with wild animals a lot longer than Steve. I think a few of you are missing the point. You cannot tame a croc and you cannot trust a somewhat tame Tiger!

Wcturnersr is right.

The problem I have with you all saying he was in control is that if you have ever watched any of his shows then you will know that he isnt always in control. He has had some pretty close calls by himself. Remember the snake episode!!

With a wild animal you are never in control especially an agressive unpredictable animal like a crocodile.

How can anyone say otherwise???

He used his kid (putting a baby in extreme danger is also against the law) as a cheap publicity stunt. He cannot even say he was introducing the child into that environment as the child if far too young to even know what was going on (let alone fend for itself).

Nxt2hvn how can you compare children in a thirld world poverty stricken African country to an extremley wealthy showman in Australia????? surely there is absolutley no comparison.

These children in Africa eat horrible things because there is no food, they have no clothes because they have no money and they swim in thses infested rivers beacuse there is no where else to and theyre countries are so lawless they have no regulations!!!!!!!!!

Steve Irwin lives in a wealthy country where there are regulations against puttin a child in dager.

q. Is he so different from a stranger grabbin a child an putting it in a tiger cage at a zoo?

A. ofcourse he is but we cannot make such distinctions.

There was always a massive element of risk involved in what and although i am not saying he doesnt care for his children i would challenge any of you to allow him to do it with your children and see how many agree. That is the true challenge to see wether you truly believe what he did is wrong.

Just my views on the subject

I am just saying even though I don't have children ... I wouldn't want someone sticking their nose in my business if I did.

I feel as a parent I would have the right to decide what was dangerous and not dangerous for my child.

For instance...my dad threw me in a lake and said swim or drown... and that is how I learned to swim... of course he would have jumped in the second he thought I was going to drown ... I guess a lot of you would "think" that is child abuse... but I don't see it that way.

And I see that as my dad's obligation to decide if it was too dangerous or not.. not someone elses decision...

like Mowo said...

NXT2HV

Come on throwing yer kid into a lake when your there ,PRIVATLEY, teaching them how to swim is different thatn going on camera at zoo an taking your kid into an alligator's pen lol. How can you compare the two?

I accept what your saying about a parent's right to bring up there kid but theres a limit.

So when do we decide when someones not fit to be a parent? Bloody hell how far do we let them go? Do we wait till the crocodile actually bites the kids head of an go "1st time he did it it never happened but a 2nd time well that was a bit far"? No we get involved straight away to stop the child being hurt.

And on a more serious note what you are saying is a basically if a kids gettin abused (and abuse means a lot of different things) behind closed doors then we've to turn a blind eye because we're just being nosy. You are sayin that right?

Well thats not on. And neither was what he did

When it comes to a child you dont just live and let live. Thats not an opinion its just morally right.

We all have a moral oblication to protect not just our own children all children. If an adult wants do get into an alligator pen then hes just a fool endagering himself but with a child who can't decide for itself wether it wants to be there or not its wrong and cannot be excused by saying "You raise your children your way... and let other's raise theirs their way."

IT JUST CAN'T!!

And BTW your dad may be able to jump in and save a drowning child easily but could he sew yer head back on if an alligator bit it off?

I agree that we need to protect children... and no.. not just our own!

And if you read some of my previous posts on this subject I mentioned how the system seems to be more leaniant if a child is abused behind closed doors... or should I say suspected of child abuse... it seems that drug addicted parents that leave their young children at home alone.. and live without heat.. or food.. seem to get a slap on the wrist and people seem to be attacking Steve Irwin for just doing what he knows... there are no signs of abuse or neglect in my opinion... and that is just what this thread started as... MY OPINION!

And I understand your opinion.. but it doesn't look like we are going to agree... I was raised with lots of love... and lots of tough love!!! ... I 100% also believe in corporal punishment... My parents spanked us every time we needed it... whether it was with a hand.. paddle... or my dad's belt... and no... it was not abuse... I am very thankful that I had parents that did spank me.

I was also raised in a very secure home environment... that consisted of School, Church and Home... lots of values. But I was raised to be tough... I have been shooting guns since I was 5... I have been hunting since I was 5...I did a lot of hands on with everything... was taught to not fear .. but respect danger.

I was taught about guns... wild animals... snakes...etc.

I feel that some kids are just so nieve now days... parents dont' take up much time with their children and teach them things. I feel that is one of the reasons that there are so many kids accidentally shooting kids!! I knew all my life exactly where my dad kept his loaded guns and they were accessible to us... but we knew better than to even think of touching one of them. It is all about learning and respecting.

I feel that if Steve teaches his children to respect the wild annimals in their zoo... or in their home Country... there will be less chance of them getting hurt or killed by them.

I guess it is all in how one is raised and brought up... this is just how I was raised!

Peace!
Nxt2Hvn

ok thats yer opinion an i guess i aint gonna change that an wed prolly argue forever on the subject lol.

Im gonna however have to pik another fight wiv ya lol.

10000% dont agree with a child bein anywhere near guns tho lol. Different cultures tho but i dont think places like columbo happened by accident do you?

I know we had a similar case in dunblane a few years ago which havin went to a school which the guy who done it had connections with i can appreciate pretty closely, it was a very very isolated incident. And our gun laws became even more strict than they where and its great it hasnt happened in ten years now and i believe the new laws had something to do with it.

I mean i have never even touched a real gun. How many 21 year old Americans can say that?

An im really proud to say it too I mean wot the hell do i want a gun for?

I believe America should sit up and take notice that if they banned guns there your crime toll would be cut so dramatically that youd think youd moved country. I really believe that Just look at the difference in crime rates in gunless countries to ones that have masses of guns on the streets.

Oh Geeze!!!

Wow ... we are really going off subject now!! LOL

Yeah.. I guess different culures... Hunting here is a very big sport.. I have killed deer, rabbits, squirrels, and quail. I was also very good a target shooting when I was little. (probably not as good now)

My dad is a very big hunter... and me and my hubby also own several guns... we keep two loaded at all times.. for protection. (I might add.. I do have permits for all of them .. so I am legal)

As far as banning guns... I see it this way... the bad guys will always be able to get their hands on guns... even if banned and owning a gun or posessing a gun becomes illegal... it's just like drugs..

I will always own a gun for my protection... think of it like this... let's say the U.S. does bann guns... then the bad guys get their hands on some... and say one comes to my house... then I have nothing to protect myself with..... see my point?

It is good that you don't feel like you need to own a gun... but here it is a way of life...

Just like I couldn't imagine carrying machine guns through the streets .. but that is what they do in Iraq.. and Israel.. and other Middle Eastern Countries... but hey.. that's their culture.

- prevention is better than cure
- think before you act

With his action i think his child might be physically and mentally abuse. When his child grow up, he might be humiliated infront of his friends.

"You almost got killed in your father arms"
"You dad is a wimp"
"You're one hell of a lucky charm"

When you're still a baby it had high possibility that you remember something scary throught your life. He might also develop a fobia against crocs and other wild lifes.

(mind my english)

An Australian point of view...

Steve Irwin is a Fair Dinkum Bloody Wanker.
This is not just my opinion. It is the opinion of most Australians. He un-necessarily puts himself in danger and is now putting his children in the same danger.
This idiot has shown no remorse for endangering the life of his children and claims he will continue to do so as he sees nothing wrong with what he has done. In my personal opinion, If he continues to do so I think family services should step in and enforce that he does not do it or his children should be taken away and given to someone who will love them enough not to needlessly put their lives in danger.
I have taught my children the dangers of snakes and crocs and sharks and I didn't have to drag them into a cage or pool with these animals to do so.
I agree with SpaceyKC totally !. If this twit wants to bugger around with these animals and get himself killed in the process then that is all well and good but he does not have any right ( Parent or Not ) to put those little kids in the same danger.

ok
1) there were other people in the enclosure with him, all professional crocodile handlers, all spotting from different angles, all telling steve what was happening and ready to swoop in if the need arises.
2) steve is a professional, he was able to assess the risk to a far better level than we could, i've used this example before, is it wrong to take a child out in a car? sure take the risk if necessary but taking the kid somewhere like McDonalds (ignore the whole evil junk food thing) is an uncecessary risk, and perhaps should be treated like child endangerment, especially if people feel the urge to critisize irwin.
3) Irwin kept himself in between the crocodile and the baby at all times, there was at least a 1.5 meter (convert it yourself you non-metric amercians:P ) gap between the baby and the croc at all times.

The media blew this out of proportion, and then the misinformed public followed on.

I'm sorry Bathory but you can not be serious.
You cannot in your wildest imagination campare taking a child for a drive in a car or eating McDonalds to taking a child into a Crocodile enclosure.
And I don't care how professional he may be or think he may be, One slip or accident and by the time the other handlers would have got there the baby would have allready been breakfast.
I have been up close to Saltwater Crocs and I have seen how fast and powerfull they are and trust me when I say this "1.5 metres is nowhere near far enough of a distance".

Steve Irwin is a professional, he knows the risk WAY better than you, so telling him the level of risk is like trying to lecture Steven Hawkings about physics...
you seemed to have missed my point regarding taking a child for a drive. By taking the child driving you present them with an unnecessary risk, practically eveyrone here is guilty of that, yet you still have the nerve to tell Steve Irwin the risks associated with what he did.

Wow... I had no idea that this post would generate such a debate!!!

I feel like such a little trouble maker sometimes!!

Just to add my 2 cents about the driving your kids somewhere~concerned parents do their absolute best to keep their children safe when they do have to use the car (like seat belts, car seats, etc.) and sometimes walking can be extremely dangerous, especially when dealing with all that other traffic ~ many have no respect for pedestrians. At least you have a barrier (car) to protect you better.

Fluffy.... I am completely aware of the attrocities you speak of... I am an adopted child myself and thank God every day for the wonderful parents he gave me!

SpaceyKC... you have made a wonderful point.... every day life in many, many ways is dangerous and chancey... pretty much everything you do now days can be of some type of danger.

Well, as Steve Irwin put it, "Hes one month old now, so I thought it was about time he got out there with the crocs"

genius.....

I never have and never will care how others raise thier kids, i didnt care when michael jackson held his kid over a balcony and i dont care that steve irwin got his kid near a croc. I think other people should worry about themselves instead of what they think others are doing wrong...just leave the guy alone.

Children are the most precious and delecate human beings on the planet. If those of us who are capable of looking out for them fail, then who will? If their parents aren't up to the minimum standards there are for raising their kids, then others must step in. That's what children's aid is for. To keep children safe. All this crap about not caring about the safety and well being of children that are not your own, is just that. Crap.

WOW!! This thread just keeps going and going!!!!

HOW EXCITING!!!

I am sponsoring 2 children in 3rd world countries. We send them money every month. Does that answer your question? Besides, even if we can't stop bad things from happening to children in far away lands, if your neighbour is beating his 2 year old, you can and should stop that. If some nut puts his 1 month old in a croc cage, you can and should stop that.

Nxt2Hvn, you started a big mess here. I just cannot understand what some of you people are saying. The man had a dead chicken in one hand and a baby, about the same size, in the other. He has had his accidents before. What makes all of you believe he is in complete control of a croc. Yeah, a lot of you are saying, well nothing happened. What if it did? and what would you think Steve would say then, if he lived and his kid did not? Would he then say it was a stupid thing to do and that he will never do it again? Would he then apologize to all of his viewers and say I hope you don't try this at home?

Come on. First of all the baby was only a month. A baby at that age if very susceptible to bacteria and viral infections. The chicken that he had in one hand could have salmonella. The water that he dipped the baby's feet in could have had more than just a croc. He opened his child up to a lot of things by taking him into that pen that was not necessary.

He said he is teaching his child how to live around crocs. Well that is a crock to me. The child has no clue on his surroundings. His vision isn't even fully developed.

I'm sorry, but if he was a true professional he would know that what he did was not professional at all.

The media can sure hell put the weirdest stuff on t.v. or the radio these days...

Nxt2Hvn, I do not think I am opening a whole new can of worms. It is still child endangerment.

This topic is fun!

yeeeeah... but I don't necessarilly think that the chances of the baby catching some kind of bacteria was high. That baby probably already has a stronger tolerance for the types of bacteria than most babies... since his parents are in coontact with those types of bacteria on a daily basis.... dunno... just a thought.

and