First of all, I am a Christian and believe in faith...not religion. To me Faith=Love, Religion=Laws.

I myself believe Christ fulfilled the law....meaning he become the law, believe in Him and be LEAD by Him. For everyone that asks "How do you know"? Its like being led with your heart, or that gut feeling you get....See, God speaks to you too!! haha.

I feel too many speak their minds and try to take up for Christianity when they should keep their mouths shut. I feel if you are LEAD by Him then good things can happen. If you speak with your own mind, your just creating a mess. Example: When Peter was about to strike the Roman that was taking Jesus, he cut off his ear. He acted on his own and it was not the right thing to do.

For those that are Atheists or affiliated with any other faith...

I think it's only fair to understand you and listen to you with respect. I know the reasons why people don't believe or don't believe in Christianity....and honestly, I don't blame you for fighting.....look at some of the pushy people out there...and especially the ones that just talk in Bible verses. I mean come on, if you talk to a non-believer DO NOT quote the Bible unless asked.....why would you believe what someone wrote when you don't believe in God in the first place? Right?

And there are many reasonable arguments for not believing....I listen and acknowledge those reasons, I just believe there will always be things in this world that contradict any Faith. It's looking in your heart to find the real answer...

And on the other side of things, some people just love to push Christians to the limit. Those people are not here to have an intelligent conversation...they are here to get a rise, which works about 99.9% of the time.

I sin just as much as anyone else in this world. I get drunk, have lots of sex, curse like a sailor, and other things as well.....I am only human and some things are hard to pass up...I may never be a Saint, but God knows where my heart lies.

As far as arguing...let it go and have a healthy conversation on each subject and allow beingness on both sides....understanding is key in my opinion.

Okay, gonna stop my rant and get back to watching The Big Lebowski....

I agree with so much of what you,ve said! I,m a Christian as well and i really get annoyed with what i call the bible bullies! Their filled and fueled by their own agenda like Peter! We need to live our faith not bla bla blab about it while living in complete contradiction to the words they spout! And respecting others right to choose is all about the free will God gave each of us and Christ taught! Also there are those who call themselves Christians, yet they place themselves above God and his commandments to not judge others or be selfrightious! Thats one of the many reasons i don,t respond to a lot of the spirituality threads, it,s not my job to bully anyone or their beliefs and i,m not going to argue over scripture! I,m too busy keeping my own sinful life in check and seeking the truth with all my heart, mind, soul and body!

That's a form of control with which I cannot agree, Branbran. I will continue to speak my mind, and we both speak to an audience of 1 in our personal universes, so it's what each individual thinks, feels, and believes that matters, no one else.

I took out a few lines to make it a very nice rant IMO. I don't have problems with any specific religions. I don't practice any religion. I am very spiritual and close to God in my own way: love, be a good honest, ethical and moral person. I think people should be free to believe what they want. If you are upset by some of the things said in certain threads...do what I do...DON'T READ THEM. I can't handle people fighting. Just my opinion. Jody

Nice words & thoughts.

Have any of you ever stopped to think that those who don't believe in your faith HAVE looked into their hearts? Many of you seem to think that non-believers & athiests are ignoring, or rebelling against your god.
Perhaps some are. Perhaps the majority though, do not see what you see, or feel what you feel regarding your deity.

If your faith works for you, great. However, I feel that your god, your faith isn't meant for everyone, for whatever reason. I'm not going to start bashing any religions here, but for myself, it doesn't work.



At least you are honest. But tell me, if these things are sins to your god, how do you justify the statement "god knows where my heart lies"?
It would seem, that your actions belie your "heart", no? I am NOT a christian, yet I don't get drunk, only have sex with my wife, do not curse except under the direst of circumstances, and I have no clue about "other things".
So, who is more moral?

Your right that there are too many who call themselves Christians but their actions are not Christian at all! And these seem to be the biggest bible bullies of all! I,ve known many non Christians who live life in more of a Christian way than some who call themselves Christian! I think they use the lable and religion to cover there disgusting behavior and feel superior in some sick hypocritic way! Since accepting Christ i work very hard at leaving my old life behind, i know i will make mistakes and sin but i now admit to my faults, learn,grow and change instead of selfishly justifying and making excuses when hurting others and myself! And for me i have changed! my life is not half the mess it once was in and i have found respect and compassion for others as well as such peace, calm and inner joy! And everyday is a new adventure in self discovery,trust and forgivness! Not just for others who have hurt me but for myself too! And thats just a very small part of whats happened and changed in my life! But i would never presume to judge anyone elses path or beliefs! How can i when i don,t know their destiny or where their gifts and talents are supposed to lead them or when! I don,t know what is in anothers heart, and sure like everyone else i judge peoples actions and try to figure where they are and what makes them do the things they do. I believe we all need to be accountable for the choices we make and celebrated for possitive life styles and achievements! But it,s not my job to judge the person or expect that person to walk my path! Religion just seems to muddy the spiritual waters for me, so i stick to seeking Gods truth and learning and owning my own truth! And try to respect others rights to do the same in the ways and on the path that they are on!

Good question!! When I first come to Christ, I lived my life as a Saint and turned away every temptation...And then one day I had sex with my neighbor, (which I was wanting to do for so long....anyway). After that, I was devastated. I felt I had let God down, but I could only take so much, you know? I could not live my life like Christ and it was HORRIBLE. And yes, you are probably more moral than I, but what is actually moral? I don't abuse any substance, its a social thing 100%....responsible drinking is UNmoral to me. Sex is just a natural thing that is a God given pleasure that shouldn't be abused, but you should have fun doing it, right? The other things was just a general term for anything I may have overlooked that could be labeled as Not-Godlike. Cursing is just a bad habit...

No, I do not take advantage of the word Christian so that I can do what I want. Believe me, I have a personal relationship with Christ. And back to you asking about, "God knows where my heart lies"? He knows because its not my actions that are judged, but my heart and relationship with Him. And I don't walk around drunk everyday....I go out maybe once a month. I have changed a lot since I was 21.

Remember the cliche' saying when you were a child: "Don't touch the hot stove, but you were to young to know better....and then one day you just had to touch it, right"? After that incident with my neighbor I went out with some friends a couple weeks later and got drunk at a bar. After that I truly felt I had turned my back on Christ....yes, I felt that strongly.

That's when I got that feeling, that feeling he was speaking to my heart. I quickly learned that The Strength Of Sin IS The Law. That's when I began to live my life through Christ, but did not let the temptations of the world CONTROL me. I gave them to Him and he walked with me. What if someone felt the need to ask a question inside a bar and was drunk? Well, I'm there.....haha. Here's the deal, you never know when Christ will want to use someone, so living your life on how YOU think Christ would want you to live it could very well be the opposite of what He wants....not sure if that made sense...

For those that live their life following every moral law and live their life straight as an arrow...Well, I respect you to the fullest.

Christ is not that condemning and finger pointing God that most perceive Him as. Am I preaching? Sorry....I just feel some Christians give the faith a bad rap....I know, it's bad to say that and its a huge generalization, but I don't know how else to put it.

For those that don't believe, do you believe in reincarnation? Nothing? Evolution? Would love to hear your thoughts and your personal beliefs.

mon petite Frere joey, great post...

I don't drink at all, or smoke, or do drugs, or strip, or prostittue etc.... or harm anything, including my children..I am A NB I feel i have outgrown a need for deitys.. I do these things becasue its who i am not for any other reason, why would I defile my temple its what affords me the opp to live this life, for me its not rocket scence or hard, it feels natural, ironically ... i too am into serial monogomy by choice it works for me..yet i will also say not all are meant to be with just one partner, and as you, I will not impose my choices, or my truth on others, .......at 40 i have tried on many hats...... Also, by choice which has lead me to where i am now, and never once would i say I am sinful, or vile, or evil, or wrong, or less then in anythings eyes least of all the diety I worshipped... I don't get this, how does one feel less then for bieng human ???? how does one take part of who they are and call it a abomination...For me the choices which have produced an outcome I felt wasn't working were my greatest gifts, and teachers...

How can one claim salvation and go on sinning?
Don't fool yourself my brother. Your actions stem from your heart. Your actions are not exempt from judgment from God. This is why I try to live a daily life of repentance and pray to be led from temptation. I am not perfect but He is.

We may not believe, but we should just ignore what the bible says when discussing? Just completely ignore the immoralities of the bible so you can live in your own self dislusion of a perfect reality that you simply made up. I think not.



You sure that's why they do it? The truth hurts is basically what you are saying here. Again, you're basically saying that others should just ignore the immoralities of the faith so you can be in your own little perfect reality without anybody popping bubbles.

Sinning is part of our life, whether you think you are without sin or not. My actions consist of having drinks with friends and pre-marital sex. I'm not sure if you are living in the Old Testament or the New. Remember David when he lusted over Bathsheba? Sent her husband to the front lines to die so that he may have her? And God said, "That's a man after my own heart".

What I'm saying is that Christ sees our heart. I don't purposely go sin on purpose and go home smiling, saying.."oh, but I have salvation". I also live a daily life of repentance and pray to be led from temptation. I also don't splurge myself on every sin known to man. There are still a lot of things that I am learning and its all a journey with Him.




Not quite sure what your getting at.....If you want to point out the immoralities of the Bible, then thats fine, I have no problem with that. As far as living in a self delusion of a perfect reality that I made up? Well, I'm happy you have an opinion on that, and see me living in a delusion state, which I fully disagree.....but lets say your right and its all a delusion, I wouldn't go back and change a thing, cause I lived my life believing in something that gave me life, happiness, love and a zeal to wake up each day. At that point, does it really matter to you? I was happy and that's what counts.

I'm not here to prove that my faith is real, I personally know Christ is there.....why does that bother some people? Is it that big of a deal to take away something that people find comfort in?

As far as the truth hurts?? I'm not hurt by anything and once again, I would love for you to tell me the immoralities of the Faith so that I can educate myself on your stand. No bubbles popping here, that is, unless your blowing hot air to cause them to pop.

why are you here if you don't mind me asking ???

You may be christian...but not a born again christian...born agains (well here in Ireland) are known as - Good living <--thats what people refer them as...if you are born again..someone will say - Oh he is 'good living' <--so by that we know they are born again christian

Born again dont get drunk...they dont even drink...not in this country lol...and as for having sex and lots of it....LMAO well if you aint married...you are breaking their law.....curse like a trooper...breaking another law?? hmm I dunno but my mom is good living..and if she met you and knew this...she would most likely try and get you re-saved again

As for me..i'll stick with just being human lol...no religion...sex..drinking..cursing (I do when I am really pissed off)...and I dont care

I'm just trying to express an opinion, get feedback and have a conversation....I'm sorry if this forum is used for something else that I'm unaware of....




I am a born again Christian, and it happened when I least expected.....

Christians don't drink? Actually I don't think drinking is a sin anyway. And the sex thing, well, that's a whole other argument there.

You say you stick to just being human and that calls for: no sex, drinking or cursing? You may be on your way to a Barrow..is that what its called? I believe Love and the Love Christ gives us is what's most important. Knowing why He died and what He gave us.

All I was saying was - Over here in my part of the world...you wouldnt be classed as a born again christian.....not by a long shot...in fact they would call you a hypocrite....I have heard them do this ...

Yeah, I totally know what you mean. But we can all pick out things in all our lives that could essentially label everyone as a hypocrite. I'm just open with my faults.

I used to go to a church that labeled television a sin and actually go as far as finding a verse to prove the point...which is fine and I'm happy if that brings comfort to their lives and brings them closer to Christ. As for me, I try not to spend my time and life looking for things to avoid. If He doesn't want me to do something, then I feel that pull...that feeling.

Everyone has their own idea on how to live. Doesn't make anyone better than the other....look at you, you probably live a cleaner life than I do and your not a Christian...right?

I love your post

I forgot though-most of us unbelievers were true believers at one time so we understand-
maybe all to well ?
Everyone can believe what they want-can't stop em.............

I used to live beside a family...The Rodgers...they where christians...and they wernt allowed to watch tv or listen to the raido ect...it was serious..... the father used to beat the living b-jebus out of the kids in front of neighbors...and I remember his daughter Diana asking me to hide some Kylie cd's so her dad wouldnt find them, for if he knew she had them, he would beat her. . One time I was in their home waiting on Diana to hurry up and get out (we were like 14 at the time)...and their car pulled up to the drive way.....the mom came in..and then the dad followed...he began to beat her up in front of me ...I froze for I have never seen anyone beat up their wife in reality like this and I was just 14...so I dashed out and ran home...my dad asked what was wrong and I said - The holy joes up the street..the da is beating up the ma and he did it in front of me....my face was as white as a sheet.....the neighbors nick-named them the Holy Terrors...for the rest of the kids in that family, were always out fighting...then on a Sunday...ALL of them, were all dressed up for church...and their basket case of a father...was in fact a PASTOR...he even held preaching in the street. with a mic...he was one nasty sob!!

Ah but Geri, Ireland is in the same area code as heaven and God gave the Irish the best whiskey so they wouldn’t take over the entire world . Remember Christ first miracle was to turn water into wine that shows that He to was probably Irish.
On a serious note it is wrong to drink in excess as drunkenness is frowned upon in scripture however it is not apposed to partaking of the grape.
from another born again tippler.

Irish

Ohh I was only saying what I hear over this end lol...it makes no difference to me what a person does in private or in pubic lol...IMO if you follow christ then that's it..you are christian...but that's just my opinion

The group my ma belongs to are so serious about drinking, actually it's how they managed to get more followers to join them...5 members of the christian fellowship that my ma goes to were once people that drank every weekend and got drunk...so they were in contact with a few born agains and now they are born agains and no longer drink.....

I say, a glass of wine a day never done anyone any harm..at weekends its not a glass lol it a bottle for me

Thank you, and your right you can't stop people from believing what they want. I believe that is done only through Christ. And it's up to the individual to decide when he/she is ready.....that is if they choose so..




Wow...now that truly is a horror story. There's all kinds out there, huh? I think that experience alone would've turned me away from Christianity. Kid's are like sponges, if they grow up seeing that this is how a Christian lives...why would they want that life once they get older? Especially if he was a pastor. Do you still know Diana or the others?

We once had a pastor cheat on his wife with the secretary of the church....that was the big news when I was a kid. He appologized after and said that the devils grip was too tight and he failed God. I think the secretary just wanted the "sacred stick", if you don't mind me saying....hahahaha....

I think if we put A LOT of emphesis on a certain situation and continue to push away from it without acknowledging it and talking it out, it will soon consume you...whether your a Christian or not.

Well I agree with god there...I despise excess drunkeness but I do enjoy a good glass of wine or two.
Or a good cocktail, yummy !!

I enjoy drinking on the weekends sometimes (It's FUN) but I hate being out of control or anyone else loosing control

I'm a Rafferty, so I have some Irish blood running through my veins. Gonna start to use that as my excuse...haha. I never get trashed drunk, but I do partake in the slight buzz. I never really drink wine, gives me a headache. I stick to my bourbon or beer....or rubbing alcohol, whatever's sitting around the house...hahaha...j/k.



That's really cool that your ma is affiliated with such a group. Good to hear people recovering from alcoholism. Makes no difference to me either what people do in public or private...unless I catch someone drinking a bottle of wine and having sex in public while cursing, that might bother me a little..

I think most women (not all )get into sex NOT because of the sacred stick (there are some great toys on the market) it's usually emotional .

Cheating happens everywhere sometimes but it's more surprising when Christians are doing it.

And I think it's sad not funny.

People obssess on the forbidden-(has this not been proven ?) that's why christianity and certain enforced morals often fail.

Totally with you on that one, here in Los Angeles we have those toy stores on every corner....

Yes, it is surprising when Christians do it, and it is sad..(especially, if they are in the public eye as a Christian figure) cause the fingers start to point and the faith itself is questioned by the masses. But we are human and we make mistakes.

Remember the Jimmy Swaggart thing? That was just one of many, but we can't rely on putting a label on Christianity because of someone else's faults.

Yep, sexuality is a very, very powerful force almost as powerful as religion (more so for some).

It's one of the many chapters in life that makes life more enjoyable and it's good for your nerves (if it's safe, con-sensual and the chemistry is great).

Good for body, mind and soul. That's a fact !

I will agree that SIN is a part of our life because we live in a world of sin so we must deal with it everyday. Jesus said,"Be in the world, but don't be OF the world." I don't claim to be without sin because I am not perfect. The human mind wanders and the tongue is a double edged sword. But reacting inappropriately and premeditated sin are two different things.

The act of SINNING on the other hand is a choice that we have because of free will. If you choose to sin, (i.e. premarital sex, etc....), then at that point you are turning away from God. You Literally step away from his grace and that is one place where I myself would not want to be.

Concerning David and Bathsheba....it seems you are taking two sections of the story out of context and then place them side by side. If you recall, Nathan reported God's words to David telling him of the evil thing he did. (2 Sam 11:27 - 12:9 ) and then you jump all the way to ACTS 13:22 where David is getting praised by God, not for the evil for which he was long forgiven but for the validity of becoming king.

You also said, "There are still a lot of things that I am learning and its all a journey with Him."

Well I hope this helps you on your journey and hope you continue to learn.
God Bless

This is something that kind of bothers me. It is basically saying "the devil made me do it," or "it wasn't my fault." I would rather see this person acknowledge THEIR actions and actually take the blame for what THEY did. That takes much more courage.

What's the logical argument to avoid pre-marital sex these days ??

It made perfect sense in THE PAST...guess why...but not now unless you are so inclined .

Because the bible says so is no answer -I want your reason for it if you were god-surprise me !!

no , no I just wanted to get clarity on your purpose, get to know you.. its used fior the reason you are here lol... ... I'm in california too by the way..(redondo beach palos verdes area...)

Oh...LOL. I guess I took it too literal. Sorry.

The reason I'm here? Well, first off I'm a little bored and have writers block and just freeing my mind a little. I've been on here once before to do the same thing and it helped tremendously. Plus nothing wrong with a little healthy pow wow with others....

I'm in Los Angeles, Mid-Wilshire area. About to get a place near the beach, not sure which one yet, want to get away from the city for a while...

Ah yes i know the area, hubby works in LA...well welcome to UM ....a writer huh?? wow...what do you wrtie and before we get scolded I'll take this to pm..LOL I'd suggest laguna beach for a writer or santa monica ...lol

So weird, If you are at home and have the history channel, turn it on.....

will do..

No, for the neighbors couldnt stick living in the same area as them, they were eventually put out and had to go live elsewere....I heard later that they were moved out of 2 other areas lol...

What a gimp lol....poor satan, always gets the blame on any wrong doings...when the pastor was 100% responcible for his own actions...he couldnt keep his pants on, hormones you gotta laugh lol...

I can almost pic the row he had with the wife....- "Oh dear you must understand dearest, it's because I'm a pastor and I was closest to God than any other pastor, so the devil saw this, and satan took hold of me and made me horny and lust after another woman...what can I say? I had demon in my pants it was terrible, it was as if, my private jewls had a mind of their own....it had to have been a demon...that darn satan, he did this to piss God off and me too...for i was so close to God and to you my dearest wife...so I prayed to fight this horny demon in my pants!!!!! And finially after being caught, he was gone..and now I am back to my normal self...I'll do anything darling...if you can forgive me?? remember jesus says to forgive and forget??
The Wife - " grrrrr You did it, and you put shame on us, you will appologize to everyone, for you are the talk of the town, and I have to lower my head when I am out cuz of you...you big cheating SOB....*SMACK* (right in the face lol) ...now remember jesus says turn the other cheek!!

lol...but I laugh when someone that is in full controll of their own doings..and they blame it all on the myth of satan...such a cop out!!! ha ha

Satan dont exist!!

Thats exactly what he said...hahaha. Yeah, I agree it was an easy cop out and your right on with some of the excuses..especially the one with him being close to God and Satan was after him. I've heard that a lot over the years.

Now I agree we are tempted, but only when Christ allows us to be tempted. And I understand that you don't believe in Satan, to most it does sound crazy...but you have to agree we live in a world of the ying and the yang. Well, you don't have to agree, just sounded good when I wrote it out...

BTW, is the song "Becky's mom has got it goin on"?.....or is it someone elses mom in the song?

Because the bible says so is answer enough for me. If you don't accept that, then it's obvious you don't live by God's word.

On the other hand, you want me to give a reason for avoiding pre-marital sex if I were God? Dude, if I were God, I would probably have screwed everything up by now and the question of avoiding pre-marital sex would be the least of our problems. HAH!

Sorry if I didn't surprise you

Never heard of the song but I like the sound of it lol

As for yin and yang...well i believe there is Good and bad in this world....but you have to remember - man is responcibile for his/her own actions...you are the one that controlls what choices you make...you and only you....if you feel you want to do something bad...and you feel its right to do so, then you are at fault...only you
We dont have proof that the devil is responcible for any wrong doings...but we do have IN REALITY have proof that MAN is responcible for any wrong doings....you just have to look around you...pick up a news paper...look at the news ect...the proof is all there................but proof that satan is remotely involved? 0% proof of that...

If you do a good turn....you are responcible
Do a bad turn..again you

If you crave sex? who plants the thought into your head?? satan?? God?? nuuh....your hormones react and you are the one that makes the choice whether to react or not....

or you can be a dum dum and claim OMG I had a demon...it was in my pants eeeeeep!!


No such thing as satan...satan is just a tool used in religion as a scare tatic lol....he isnt real...he was made up for that purpose...to make you think there is a place called hell and thats who you go to..so to avoid it...turn to God or Jesus.. lol...a sales pitch if you like!!

Point taken, I understand what you say. The only comeback I have is that I believe on faith and understand that man reaps what he sews...which is generic, I know...but true for me.

And its "Stacy's Mom has got it goin on"....sorry, but you can always substitute the lyrics...haha.

Crave sex? Not sure I crave it, but I know its somewhat a necessity. Don't see how the nuns and priests do it. Sorry if this offends others, but those that refuse to have pre-marital sex or sex all together...does that include masterbation? Again, sorry if this is not allowed.....is an interesting question though...

Facts about sex and the soul? Care to cite a scholarly reference from an accredited institution for higher learning, or scientific study results drawn from non-quasi experimental research?

I have faith in God...but I don't need to believe in Satan in order to follow God...

I used the sex thing as an example lol..to show you that you are in control of what you do...not some made up myth like satan or anything else...just you
To want sex is a natural thing for us humans ..hey why stop there? birds do it...bee's do it. ..ohh now I feel a song coming on lol...I'll stay clear of that!!

DERAIL tsk tsk..typical of you sheri im so stunned .......(just messing lol)

ha ha ha sis I couldnt resist

ha ha ha ha so true so true sis....

Riiiight................

Do you like your non- quasi experimental drugs Mr. Powers? I designed them myself.

My soul is non- quasi evil-therefore I shall give you a non-quasi reasonable supply I mean reply.

Where shall I begin...........?


I don't really believe so much in a soul (actually I don't know)-but many do believe in a non- quasi soul of sorts-by soul I mean the emotional part

.
You know the old saying it pains my soul-to me that's emotional pain.

I hope you find this answer to be non-quasi acceptable.

While most of us generally recognize that extremely uptight and stressed-out people could benefit from a nice roll in the hay, sex isn’t always included as a top stress management technique. With all the physical and emotional benefits it provides, it should be!

Dr. Ruth and Reason

Thank you for your feedback. There are no facts here. I have been entertained, as I hope you have, too. I'm not sure how drugs entered into the equation, as they are equally imaginary and I have no use for them. Good use of "non-quasi". Variety is the spice of life, and spice is also imaginary, so have fun.

Thank punt !!

the pleasure is all mine..........No facts here-sorry-only faith-in which I have no faith in

why is spice imaginary ? But... but.... I just over-spiced up my eight egg cheese omelet ? Bon Appetit !

Drugs are imaginary ?

Drugs are imaginary, you are imaginary, and I am imaginary, which is how I'm able to imagine having fun talking to myself.

Imagination = Creation = Genesis

I'm interested in speaking further with you until I am not [interested further].

If I'm not back in 135 mins. imaginary time..........please wait !!

If you want to do that, then equally expect christians to look into your immorality (from their perspective) and not let you live in "your own self delusion"

Just as christians think thin their morality is universal, so do you seem to think your morality is universal

My morality is just to treat others as I would like to be treated-how about yours ?

The rest just falls into place.

Peace & Truth