What better way to hide extraordinary next generation terrestrial aircraft than to wrap them in the compelling fiction of aliens!?

Just imagine if all you believers have been used in this nasty way.




http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/ai...ce/1282426.html

How many times must one point out that the issue is the UFO Phenomena NOT Aliens?

We already know that UFOs/UAP are not terrestrial aircraft. Let me quote the recently declassified MoD Condign report.

"It is clear that they (UAP) have been reported as exceptional occurrences throughout recorded history, using the language of the times." - Executive Summary, Introduction, para 11

"Descriptions are much the same and often identical to those reported today." - Vol. 1, Chapter 2, 17

"Listings go back far beyond the days of all manned flight, lasers or satellites. Hence, none of these familiar objects of the 20th century could have caused the earlier reports shown." - Vol. 1, Chapter 2, 17

There are places where black aircraft operate, and not in plain sight and why the classification status on the F-117 was downgraded just so it could be revealed to the public, and there have been occasions when I was interviewed by the Air Force's OSI in preparation for assignments of my compatriots to a secret base in Nevada.

I find that very amusing since it is the other way around.

For an example, the UFO that was tracked maneuvering over Washington D.C. in 1952 at 7200 mph, was three times faster than the A-12 and the SR-71, and that was years before either of those aircraft even flew.




And, I doubt the Air Force would order its own jets to shoot down its own classified aircraft over our nation's capital, which is not considered a fight test zone for our secret aircraft.



Just goes to show just how easy the government can duped those who are not in-the-know on UFOs

But that is what this thread's about.

Sure, its all government desinformation...when it DOESN'T agree your belief of course, then its called evidence!!

What!?

I think that you have missed a fundamental part of our debate shaman, on this thread we are debating if some of the UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors. Maybe you posted on the wrong thread!?

No I posted on the right thread. When you talk about "terrestrial" aircraft you're no longer talking about the UFO Phenomena, you're no longer talking about UAP which we know are not "terrestrial" aircraft.

Given the fact that much of the government evidence released, agrees with my assessment on UFOs. After all, some of the most dramatic UFO encounters can be found in validated declassified government documents.

For you that doesnt know, UAPs (Unusual Aerial Phenomena) is the same as the old UFOs.

But fact remains, no matter how many times the "believers" claim this, there is no hard scientific evidence of life elsewhere in the universe at this time. Do I believe there is, yes I do, do I have any hard scientific proof of this, no I dont.

Some people claim they do, but, does the claim convince the scientific word wide community!!?? Short answer...NO!!

Now, you have to wonder, why is that, why doesnt a whole world of scientists/astronomers pop the champagne if its such a "no brainier" as some of the believer thinks it is!!??


Are the believers here on UM smarter then the think tank working at NASA and ESA and the other space agencies ....hmmm??


I think not.

Life elsewere in the universe has nothing to do with UAP. We know UAP exist. The question is only what hypothesis explains them?

I disagree and rightly so.

The data evidence doesn't depict conventional aircraft nor natural phenomena, and that is why military and commercial pilots, senior military and intelligence officials, police offiers, even some scientist and engineers, have indicated that the UFOs in question, are those of ET.

Hazzard,

Since you don't like, as you say, "believer sites" in regards to UFOs, you can go government web sites and read about the same UFO case files that you can find on "believer web sites."

UFO documents at the web site of the Department of Defense (DoD).

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/ufo/assort1.pdf

They may have indicated that was the case, but the ETH remains only a hypothesis at this point. The ETH is certainly not the end of the discussion of UAP. At this point it apears that at least two different overlapping phenomena account for UAP.

The scientific community has come under attack from other scientist who became involved in the UFO investigations.



Are you implying that astronomers have never reported UFOs? You had better take another look!!



Do those same folks at NASA and the ESA automatically override the brains of military and commercial pilots with thousands upon thousands of hours of flying experience and air traffic controllers with thousands upon thousands of hours of experience in their field?

What about former presidents, senior military and intelligence officials? Scientist and engineers who have also reported and documented their own UFO sightings?

And when it doesnt agree with your UFOs are aliens belief, well, then you just call it desinformation, or just dont bother with it!!

Scientific??

I dont think so.



Sure they have.

But as most of us knows by now, a Unidentified Flying Object is faaaar from a positive ID of a living and breathing alien on Earth.

That's because the ETH for UFOs/UAP has never advanced beyond the hypothesis stage.



The ESA has printed publications on UAP. Some of which include discussion of the ETH in the form of SETV publications.

It is not disinformation since there are many government officials who are believers based on the evidence.



So basically speaking, you are saying that when aircrews with more than 20,000 flying hours between them report visual contact with a flying saucer that is 100 meters in diameter and pacing their aircraft as confirmed on airborne and ground-based radars by highly trained radar operators, that all of those professionals do not know what they are talking about!

You would have rewrite the laws of physics to make those UFOs anything else but artificial flying objects with capabilities we do not have.

All you have to do is to prove those flying saucers as ours. If you are unable to do so, then what else can I say? Then, understand what I have been saying.

Thats all Iv been saying!!

When it does, and Im sure it will, advanced beyond the hypothesis stage, I hope Im still around.

Maybe my 2 year old son will be looking at the news in 40 years, or so, thinking....My dad would have loved this!

There are those who are withholding information, as noted by Congressman Steven Schiff (R-NM)

Of topic Sky, do you have kids??

But you see UAP still exist and need to be scientifically explained regardless of the validity or invalidity of the ETH as a hypothesis to explain them. There are other hypotheses and they all need testing to advance beyond the hypothesis stage.

That's the point that I'm making. The ETH isn't the Alpha and the Omega of the UFO/UAP Phenomena.

Yes, I do!

And, a few grandchildren as well, and none watch "X-Files" either.

About government web sites and UFOs. Now remember, this is NOT a "believer" UFO web site.

http://ufos.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.h...iaindex/ufo.htm

We all know that there are unidentified/paranormal things on our planet!!!

Loch Ness, Ghosts, Poltergeists...etc...

I really want to believe, I really do. But what concerns me most about these fringe discoveries is that they often come accompanied with an agenda - that is, you have to buy the DVD or pay to come to the conference.

Are these people spreading the most important information in history - or selling snake oil?

In this case, UFOs=Aliens...

... Most people are very curious about the night sky, planets and possible extraterrestrials, but unfortunately a lot of misinformation is spread, sometimes its just plain silly information, but sometimes it makes just enough sense for some people to believe it.

Its unfortunate that people such as Greer, Icke, Hoagland, Hopkins, etc., turn the UFO mystery into a freak show. The gullible blindly believe the tripe these individuals spew out, while the hard core scoffers jump at the opportunity to use this nonsense to dissuade serious scientific study of UFOs. As long as these loonies are making a buck with their drivel, the UFO phenomenon will never be taken seriously by the scientific community.

Military and commercial aircrews report a gigantic flying saucer tagging along with their aircraft, which is confirmed on airborne and ground-based radar.

Question is: Was that flying saucer ours?

Good for you. I really mean it.

After all we are on the same team, looking for ET. Just hope your not one of those crazy old dudes slapping your belief in the little kids faces!!?

I don't.

I only discuss UFOs with my fellow pilots who fly both, for the airlines, and with the military, and some are my relatives.

As you might know by now, Im a helicopter flight instructor and have some serious hours in the air all over the world.

Does that make me a credible UFOs are alien ships witness. No it does not. Have I seen strange things in the night sky during my hours up there, yes I have.

Aliens on Earth...???

Maybe - But, until I have that undisputed proof Ill say --Unidentified.

Thats it!!

But UAP are NOT paranormal. We know that UAP exist which puts it into a class well above that of Loch Ness, Ghosts, Poltergeists...etc.



There are always snake oil salesmen/women. As far as I can see there always will be.

Think about it like this... Is the Idea of alternative energy sources discredited by the FACT that every year someone 'claims' to discover a 'Free Energy' source? Of course not.



UFOs/UAP never "=" (equal) anything other than observable phenomena. The ETH as a hypothesis for UFOs/UAP "=" (equals) Aliens.





Confusion is most unfortunate, that's all the more reason to be vigilant in distinguishing the difference between actual phenomena and the hypotheses that are presented to explain them.




But the "mystery" existed well before any of these "snake oil salesmen" showed up for the "freak show".




You can only fight nonsense by educating yourself on the legitimate scientific efforts that are currently ongoing to study UAP.

As far as I can tell there are very few people willing to do that. That has to be a FAR LARGER PROBLEM than a few "loonies making a buck".

I have seen a UFO close enough to where there was no question what the object was, and what it wasn't.



Other than my own sighting, and those of my compatriots, I am going to say yes, those flying saucers are those of ET, and base further evidence on what we have encountered over the decades.

You are right of course, there has been witches, trolls and goblins before the greens and grays.

Dont you wish that you had more then just you word with that!!?

I'm talking about UAP, observable atmospheric anomalies, not witches, trolls, goblins and or greens and grays!

Just look at, and understand the data. Radar/visual case files are very interesting to me.

What if I pretended to be a believer.............."prove to me that none of the above exist"!!

This is what has been going on in recent years and I expect the trend to continue worldwide and right up to the day when the the U. S. government finally throws in the towel.

Sky, seriously...

FORGET THE US GOVERNMENT!!!



What Im getting at is.. The bigger picture is what is missed by those who absorb unsubstantiated UFO/Alien material and deny science as their method of investigation.

The real history of our world, our planet, and our universe is a continuing study, a great deal of which has already been scientifically documented.

As to no one changing my mind, or anyone else who adheres generally to the scientific method, that is an erroneous assumption.

Science is self correcting.

If someone proves that ETs are, or have been here, then they will have my support.

To date, no one, including Dr. Greer, Hoagland, etc, has done so.

Eventually, the government is going to say it!




Same with UFOs.



Just ignore Greer and Hoagland, and listen to the people that Greer has presented.

Just think if you only "pretended to be" scientific.






If you have something to say about witches, trolls, goblins and/or greens and grays then say it.

Can't you mentally distinguish a difference between fairy tales and actual observable phenomena in the atmosphere?

Try going to Dulce Underground and see how far you get. Maybe camp in the surronding area if you are skeptical. Maybe you be next to be abducted. What an Idea. Get a group of all the Skeptics to camp in area out side of Dulce. Not in one group, but Scattered far apart. Then everyone check back in after few days.

There are underground bases all over the world. The Dulce base in NM is a new area 51 for the UFO=Aliens believers. Cattle mutilations were said to occur in the Dulce area, and there were also allegations of UFOs visiting more then often.

Since Bennewitz introduced the story of the Dulce Base, the conspiracy theories have grown, and have flourished on the World Wide Web. According to Bennewitz, back in 1969, the base was built northwest of Dulce in joint agreement between CIA and aliens from space.(!)

Yes, there are sometimes vibrations from the ground near the town of Dulce, they have allegedly caused speculations of an underground facility, however, these are more likely minor earthquakes, which are known to occur in the area. Military helicopters have also been said to be "unusually milling" around the deserted area, although these claims are, at present, unproven.

So, again, were is the evidence that this or anyother underground base has anything to do with ET....?

In regards to "helicopter," did you know that the word was used by the military to cover-up the fact they were actually referring to UFOs so as not to draw attention from the public?

Hazzard, you do realize that is was the Air Force itself that was feeding these 'stories' to Bennewitz don't you?

And what was their evil agenda?

Unless you believe Bennewitz story of course.....It seems to me that the only time the US military is telling the truth is when they support your fantasy.

I guess the 'evil agenda' was to fool you hazzard.

Again,a weird and pointless post by lost shaman!!

Well if your going to talk about Bennewitz "introducing" conspiracy then you should at least point out that it was the Air Force who was feeding him the information!

If someone is going to turn around and ask me what the "evil agenda" was like they don't "believe" what I just said, although anyone can look that up, how am I supposed to respond?

You assume that I didnt believe that it was the Air Force who was feeding Bennewitz the information. As many believers before you, I think you assume to much...!

You were the one asking me what the 'evil agenda' was. So what were YOU assuming?

Oh wait... you said it right here. That I think the "only time the US military is telling the truth is when they support {my} fantasy."

You also assume in the same breath (above quote) that I'm a "believer", which I'm not.

So you tell me hazzard who's making the assumptions here.