But, if they might not think or communicate in the same ways as us, we're still assuming that if they want to visit us, they have to do it in craft which, although they may be more advanced in terms of performance, are still recognisably similar to our own spacecraft, in that they're metallic and reflect radar and are (usually) bedecked with lights? Mightn't they develop some means of transport that doesn't need spacecraft at all, if they might differ from us in so many other ways?

(and incidentally, if they're that advanced, i've always wondered why they haven't devised some kind of stealth technology so they don't show up on radar.)

Sometimes, they don't show up on radar.

Several months ago, I was talking to a retired radar technician who was once stationed at Minot AFB. He mentioned at one time that they were watching a UFO hovering, but it wasn't showing up on their radar.

Can you, in that case, classify them as machine? How do we know if they're using radar-stealth or if they are something else?

Contrary on what many people may think, neither the F-117 stealth fighter nor the B-2 bomber are totally invisible to radar.

If they are using radar-evading technology, then it can't be for the purpose of hiding because they usually show up visually as bright as a lighthouse. If an object behaves in an intelligent manner and is observed visually and described as a machine, then we can go with what the eyewitnesses have noted in their documents.

That's true, but I think he was just trying to obtain the equation.

We have had 'machines' that don't always show up on RADAR for decades.

Ever wonder why EVERYONE at NASA and everyother Space agency hold their breath for several minutes when manned vehicles re-enter the atmosphere?

It's beacuse Plasma surounds the vehicle that causes a Radio/RADAR blackout.

Sometimes they show up on radar, sometimes they dont. Sometimes they are big sometimes they are small. Different sizes and colors. No one here knows ANYTHING about other life forms...How do you separate aliens from terrestrial "normal" UFO phenomenon..!?

Indeed, but we know more than that. We know it is one of our own craft, and the reason behind it not being on the radar. Can you say that about UFO's? How do you know that the UFO's that do not show up on radar are not a lifeform itself? Or that it is not from another dimension? Or some kind of time-distortion? And so on.

I do not deny that it can very well be aliens from another planet, in a spacecraft they built, using some kind of stealth, and judging from observations, photos and videos, it points to that direction. But observations, videos and photos taken from earth of the sun are all indicating that the sun goes up and then down - not that the earth is going around the sun.

Visual accounts from highly credible witnesses whose testimonies are corrroborated by radar and other electronic systems, and, the fact that the UFOs in question react intelligently to aircraft maneuvering inputs and radar lock-ons.

For an example, we can review this UFO dogfight of 1976.



It is fairly obvious that the UFOs had nothing to do with natural phenomena.

Hazzard, watch this video linked here:
Select: UFO Over Illinois

An excellent example/documentary showing an objective encounter by several police officers over several counties.

Whilst I agree that everyone is open to character flaws such as lust / jealousy in that case I'd still trust a pilot that says they saw a UFO based on the fact that they really don't do themselves any favours by reporting such things. Also military stress related issues are normally not manifested when in 'the job', they usually appear afterwards or during downtime iirc.

Im not saying that it wasnt real, or not..... But, that was a believer site, if I ever seen one. Doesnt do wonders for the credibillity of your "documentary".

But, some of the most dramatic military and commercial UFO encounters on record, can be found in declassified government documents under the Information of Freedom Act (FOIA) that has nothing to do with web sties of believers.

Documents from the 50s Is not doing it for me. A video clip from a fighter jet or a police cruser of that 100 meter supersonic disc would be better?

But, many of the declassified government UFO documents are of UFO case files of recent years, and documents of the 1950's are just as valid as documents of recent years.

Over the past two decades, we are learning much more about UFOs than the preceeding 20 years, so as the years roll on, the more we will learn that the UFOs in question, are not ours.

Im still waiting,waiting for that real evidence,the one that leaves no doubt.

Actually, tons of data evidence have already been released, and that evidence has proven that the UFOs in question, are not ours, simply because mankind doesn't have the advanced technology that has been clearly demonstrated by the UFOs in question.

That is why senior military and intelligence officials have been saying that they are not ours.

As are many of us scientific folk...

But, I don't see a point in badgering skyeagle constantly about that evidence; "the one that leaves no doubt" -- which is actually a concept called 'proof'.
If people were honest with themselves, I think we may find that many who ask for proof are already aware of the inability to provide this proof over an internet forum. It seems to provide an intellectual 'safe haven' of sorts for ones who are not that adequately equipped to debate the subject.

Correct me if i'm wrong, please.

Don't forget that I am aware of the scientific method and it's "dos" and "dont's", the burden of proof, and all of that good stuff -- so a reply explaining these things is pointless (I see a lot of this here - even when not entirely neccesary).



No offense meant.

-AJH-

This is where I must step in and disagree.

This is a run-around argument. You can't say that mankind doesn't have those technological capabilities. We just might.

Secret/Hidden technology may be the case here.

Perhaps there are other reasons? Military intelligence isn't something to take at face value by any means.

Yet, technology has taken leaps and bounds, in which case, why do we need the Government? Can't we provide our own proof nowadays? The Belgium tringle is awesome, is there any movie footage of it travelling? 200 peole witnessed it, surely one person had the good sense to record this amazing event?

Sorry for making a mute point AJH (in regards to post #68), I know the answer already, but statements like this are a challenge to those of us who as you put it "aware of the inability to provide this proof ", yet if the outside chance has escaped me, or some of this real proof becomes available, or new information offers insight to this jigsaw puzzle, I'd like to see it. Not believeing we have aliens on earth does not curb my interest. I dead set hope Sky is right. It certainly would be an incredible piece of history to be a part of.

Psyche, I understand your position completely - seeing as I hold it myself.

Did you understand and/or agree with what I said?

I completely agree.

Who has the money?



There are videos, including those from the military.



It was witnessed by thousands of people over multiple countries.

The military doesn't display its classified aerial assets in the manner that UFOs do, and I have presented in the past on the way the military conducts flights of its classified assets.

There are certain airspaces where secret aircraft are not even allowed, and that is why Special Use Airspace (SUA) and other restricted airspace are important, yet UFOs appear in airspaces where the military wouldn't even think twice of flying their valuable and classified aircraft.

I already know as a fact, that the technology is not ours. Such technology has been demonstrated in our skies for centuries, long before mankind even flew, and, we are still struggling with the problem of the sonic boom, yet UFOs do not leave behind sonic booms despite the fact they often travel at supersonic and hypersonic speeds within our atmosphere. The operators of those UFOs have solved the problem of the sonic boom, but mankind hasn't, and examples can be found in my pilot's AIM/FAR publication, Part 91, section 91.817, and Appendix B, sections 1, 2, and 3.

So yes, the UFOs are very real, and the government has known that fact all along.

So do I, but I just dont think that the evidence is there....beyond any and all other possible explanations.

And that that 100 meter supersonic disc , well, if real, I think that would have made some serious headlines, not just a document or two!!

There's lots of evidence and why we are still receiving reports such as these from around the world.

skyeagle is the man IMO. Always backs up his statements/arguments with more than enough credible info.

I would have put it like this - skyeagle always backs up his statements/arguments with more than enough info.

Can you post a link to the site were you got this CHILEAN AIR FORCE UFO document from?

I'll even add other links for further reading.


http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=88019

http://www.tcgnews.com/santiagotimes/index...amp;topic_id=15

http://ufologie.net/htm/offichili.htm

http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/newsitems2001.html


May 10, 2001
Washington Times
Government Is Covering Up UFO Evidence, Group Says
By Julia Duin

"The U.S. government has been covering up evidence of extraterrestrial visits for more than 50 years, an array of 20 retired Air Force, Federal Aviation Administration and intelligence officers said Wednesday. They demanded Congress hold hearings on what they say is long-standing secret U.S. involvement with UFOs and extraterrestrials."

"Calling it the "greatest secret of the 20th century," the officials, who termed themselves "witnesses" of UFO-related events, described a series of military investigations they said they saw: crashes of alien spacecraft, bodies of alien beings, secret government documents, even James Bond-style "erasures" of people who knew too much."

"The individuals who have these sightings range from airline pilots and military pilots to police officers, some of the people your lives depend on, on a daily basis," retired Air Force Lt. Col. Charles Brown told a roomful of skeptical reporters."


Chilean Air Force UFO

Santiago, Feb 18 (AFP-NA)-- The Chilean Air Force (FACH) turned
over secret information regarding UFO sightings to the U.S.
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) according to statements issued
in Santiago on Sunday by Ovnivision, an organization composed of
researchers of this phenomenon.


Chile announces UFOs are for real

On 2nd April 1997, Chilean newspaper "La Cuarta" has the following headline: "UFO Sighting of Arica is Confirmed by La Direccion General de Aeronautic Civil." Chile did start to join the small number of countries who officially stated that the nature of UFOs is of intelligent driven flying machines

Not all that dear these days, as the tech becomes more popular and availablility increases, I have one digital still camera with a 12x optical zoom and a motion camera with a 24 x optical zoom always charged and at the ready, I have three cameras, all with at least 3 x optical zoom that have cost me around $100.00. Worth scrimping a week or two to get. Pretty much everybody I know has one, even the mobile phone cameras are getting some decent resolution these days. If one lands on my mountain, I'll be ready!



Have the military released any videos that are corroborated by radar reports in terms of speed trajectory etc?

IS anything other than the one photo available? If thsouands saw it, surely one person had a handy cam out?

I have to agree, I keep hoping to see that smoking gun, like everyone in here, but as technology increases, and proof decreases......it doesn't look good to be hopefull does it. If the 100 meter supersonic disc was documented as well as some of the early or pre '50 reports, well, I guess you and I would be on the other side of the fence. I can't understand how that Belgium UFO was witnessed by thousands, yet only one underside pic. Heck, I'd have at least thrown a rock at it to try and bring it down if I didn't have a camera with me, if not I'd race into the local store and steal one right of the counter in full view. The resulting fame and fortune and free advertising should quell the angry shopkeeper. If not, I still think it a risk worth taking.

AJH, yes, pretty sure I understood your meaning, I was apologising in advance for asking a question of Sky that I already knew the answer to. We sure seem to be on the same page.

I am sure of it!

More stories sky, believer sites and Ufology Conferences! Nothing I would bet all my money on.

psyche101 wrote.


Exactly! Doesnt make sense.

Would it make sense to you if I pointed out that you are talking about different events?

If you don't like the believer sites, then just follow-up on the references and sources given, of the original stories that have nothing to do with believer sites.

Psuedoskeptics can't bother themselves with references and sources, we all know that.

Reality check!

Get a grip lost shaman,Im sure that hazzard knows the difference between Chile and Belgium.



And you just showed that some blind believers cant even read and understand one simple post,priceless!

Since when is anything coming out of South America not to be suspected of being related to anti-american or pro-bolivarian, or just some outright shlock. Nothing personal, but liers are cheaper by the dozen...and there are plenty in South American rags.

No.......same event - my post



I know this is a thread in Chile sightings, it was a reference with regard to making a point on modern tech and modern sightings.

Considering there were thousands of witnesses in several countries over a period of years, I am very sure there are more than one photo.

The Belgium UFO sightings were mutiple events. The photo in question therefore was NOT witnessed by thousands as implied.

So, if that's the case, Sky has given inorrect information on the event. I will attempt to find exactly how many witnesses ther e actually was to this event.


This is the case we were discussing though. I was., I am sure Hazzard was as well.

I just posted what I posted, that's all, and then watched as the rocket took off!

When your talking about "thousands of witnesses" your talking about the Belgium UFO 'Wave' of '89-90. As 'Wave' inplies this was a period of very high UFO/UAP activity. The photo in question is a still from a video taken by an anonymous photographer in April of '90 from the Petit Rechain area. The Petit Rechain 'Triangle' is undoubtedly the most well known photo associated with the Belgium UFO 'Wave', BUT one must keep in mind that the ENTIRE UFO 'Wave' had already taken place and was basically over by the time the Petit Rechain Video/Still was even allegedly captured on film.

Often multiple objects were sighted, many of these being more classical shapes associated with UAP.

But people have been reporting these or similar things ever since. Why have there never been any photos as good as that since? that's what mildly puzzles me. You would think if you saw a mile-wide triangular craft, twinkling with lights, cruising overhead at about 100 feet, you'd try to get a picture or some footage of it, wouldn't you?

ROFL, fair enough

I do not disagree, in fact, may I offer a quick thanks for the photo. I think Shaman is the one confused, but he is quite an angry person isn't he.

Ohh, OK, thank you the information and clarification. I had misunderstood Sky here. I asked him how many had witnessed that incredible picture, and he replied thousands, he must have been speaking of the wave, I the one incident.

Thank you for clarifying that.

That is one damning photo. I am not sure what to make of it. I just cannot understand why a great deal more does not exist. Great example.

You are right of course.



Yes psyche101, I would also like to know more about the thousands of people that saw this, and exactly what they saw. And why this exraordinary event never hit the media, as it should, like a bomb. Could there be another explanation, besides aliens from anohter planet...?

Oops... I misinterpreted your reply, sorry.


Thanks for the clarification. I need it sometimes.

Skyeagle, I have information from individuals who were a part of what the public now knows as 'black ops', who would wholeheartedly disagree with this point. Sometimes the best place to hide is in plain sight. Why? Well, I think you just showed us.

Possibly... But on the same note, if the craft(s) is/are secret there is no responsible party for it's actions.