I'm starting to lose faith (No pun intended) in this board, to be honest.
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
By now though, I'm starting to wonder, what's the point of debate over religion? People have learned to consider their religions as absolutes.. "I'm this way, you're that way; if you make a point, I have to argue against it".
It's something like telling a judge to determine who the liar is. The stories don't match, so someone has to be lying. But the defendant and the plaintiff always have the perfect story to suit their case... so who is it, really?
The thing is, I've come to realize that nobody is going to change because you make a good case for it. Debate just reaffirms the "us and them" idea. You could put the undeniable proof right in front of someone's face, but if you do it with even a hint of hostility, it goes completely over their head, because they don't want to be wrong. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so".
That's the true root of all evil, the failure to compromise, to empathize. That's what starts wars, that's what creates hatred for one another. There will always be something to get into long, heated arguments about. It could be politics, life outlook, taste, and so on.
And I think the idea of this board.. "Try to convince people that you're right", is wrong. Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
I'm sorry if this is more of a rant..
-KBA
Full Version: What's the point?
Welcome to UM 
Btw, my god is bigger than your god.
Btw, my god is bigger than your god.
Welcome, my friend, to the wonderful world of religious beliefs. No, you're not going to "change" anyone, nor is anyone else. The best any of us can do is try and get past each other's beliefs and concentrate on the here and now. Good luck to you, sir! Take care!
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 01:43 PM) 
I'm starting to lose faith (No pun intended) in this board, to be honest.
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
Some of us do understand your views...have said so and at times agreed with you...but you can't expect people to tell you that every post you make is 100%, for we all look at things in our own way
I know you are not asking everyone to look at your views and agree with them...but see if we all did agree and became a bunch of YES MEN/WOMEN to you...then you would be happy but at the same time, it wouldn't be much of a challenge to you and you would get board just as fast!!
If you can't handle how some totally ignore your views and just shoot off to put their views accross ..then if you see they don't give a monkeys...all you have to do is tell them - Look as you are so set in your own view and you don't care to at least give my view any thought, good day to you...but don't expect me to continue responding...come back when you descide to look at BOTH sides, then we will talk!! ...they soon get the message lol
At the same time however...I have noticed how you state your view in something IE - one of your most recent threads on prayer.....you read the responces and saw how others look at prayer right? then what?? did you reply back that you now understand where they all come from and then add in more info on how you understand but how you still disagree with prayer??....no don't think you did...you just left it.....so because you left it high and dry, that makes me think, you got a tad cheesed off because no one saw it your way....but see you failed to see it explained in a different way..therefore you left it! <---that's just one example of the problem you are having...well it's only an assumption...because you did just make the thread..obviously to gain responces....but when you descide to no longer respond...then obviously you don't seem to care to discuss what others have said in order to understand them too
If you can look at both sides and state you now understand....you are half way there...but just because you say - I understand ...that don't mean you must all of a sudden agree with the view...get it?? lol
Are you kidding me? Religion is a minority on this board. This is a hardcore atheist site
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 06:14 PM)
Are you kidding me? Religion is a minority on this board. This is a hardcore atheist site
It seems equal to me but I have wondered.
Mostly here are Atheist-Christian Agostics and some Deists,Pagans,Satanist and others scattered about
A poll would tell
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 12:43 PM)
I'm starting to lose faith (No pun intended) in this board, to be honest.
Hello, KBA,
Are you losing faith in the discussion board, or discovering faith within yourself? In yourself?
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 05:43 AM)
I'm starting to lose faith (No pun intended) in this board, to be honest.
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
By now though, I'm starting to wonder, what's the point of debate over religion? People have learned to consider their religions as absolutes.. "I'm this way, you're that way; if you make a point, I have to argue against it".
It's something like telling a judge to determine who the liar is. The stories don't match, so someone has to be lying. But the defendant and the plaintiff always have the perfect story to suit their case... so who is it, really?
The thing is, I've come to realize that nobody is going to change because you make a good case for it. Debate just reaffirms the "us and them" idea. You could put the undeniable proof right in front of someone's face, but if you do it with even a hint of hostility, it goes completely over their head, because they don't want to be wrong. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so".
That's the true root of all evil, the failure to compromise, to empathize. That's what starts wars, that's what creates hatred for one another. There will always be something to get into long, heated arguments about. It could be politics, life outlook, taste, and so on.
And I think the idea of this board.. "Try to convince people that you're right", is wrong. Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
I'm sorry if this is more of a rant..
-KBA
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
By now though, I'm starting to wonder, what's the point of debate over religion? People have learned to consider their religions as absolutes.. "I'm this way, you're that way; if you make a point, I have to argue against it".
It's something like telling a judge to determine who the liar is. The stories don't match, so someone has to be lying. But the defendant and the plaintiff always have the perfect story to suit their case... so who is it, really?
The thing is, I've come to realize that nobody is going to change because you make a good case for it. Debate just reaffirms the "us and them" idea. You could put the undeniable proof right in front of someone's face, but if you do it with even a hint of hostility, it goes completely over their head, because they don't want to be wrong. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so".
That's the true root of all evil, the failure to compromise, to empathize. That's what starts wars, that's what creates hatred for one another. There will always be something to get into long, heated arguments about. It could be politics, life outlook, taste, and so on.
And I think the idea of this board.. "Try to convince people that you're right", is wrong. Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
I'm sorry if this is more of a rant..
-KBA
many at first come here to deal with approval from the masses, as we are taught to 'fit in ' not make waves "be the majority", suffer in silence ......do not question the status quo, for goodness sakes don't think for yourself... you have grown up and grown personally and outgrown this need and maybe have learned the only true change we can effect is with ourselves and its in this awareness that we can use our lives as our message..Really KBA, i see this as something to celebrate not be saddened about, your example will speak for itself.......way to go KBA you are what they call empowered IMO ...
QUOTE(momentarylapseofreason @ Sep 22 2007, 09:35 AM)
It seems equal to me but I have wondered.
Mostly here are Atheist-Christian Agostics and some Deists,Pagans,Satanist and others scattered about
A poll would tell
Mostly here are Atheist-Christian Agostics and some Deists,Pagans,Satanist and others scattered about
A poll would tell
Actually, go look at the Pinned poll in the General section. It's a good snapshot depending on how you interpret the data. I think the poll itself was poorly written for really good results, but it does give you a general idea of what's going on here as far as social demographics goes.
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 07:43 AM)
I'm starting to lose faith (No pun intended) in this board, to be honest.
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
By now though, I'm starting to wonder, what's the point of debate over religion? People have learned to consider their religions as absolutes.. "I'm this way, you're that way; if you make a point, I have to argue against it".
It's something like telling a judge to determine who the liar is. The stories don't match, so someone has to be lying. But the defendant and the plaintiff always have the perfect story to suit their case... so who is it, really?
The thing is, I've come to realize that nobody is going to change because you make a good case for it. Debate just reaffirms the "us and them" idea. You could put the undeniable proof right in front of someone's face, but if you do it with even a hint of hostility, it goes completely over their head, because they don't want to be wrong. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so".
That's the true root of all evil, the failure to compromise, to empathize. That's what starts wars, that's what creates hatred for one another. There will always be something to get into long, heated arguments about. It could be politics, life outlook, taste, and so on.
And I think the idea of this board.. "Try to convince people that you're right", is wrong. Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
I'm sorry if this is more of a rant..
-KBA
I came here a little over a year ago, I don't exactly know why, but in real reflection I think I was just overly arrogant, thinking I could make myself clear and get other people to understand my views here.
By now though, I'm starting to wonder, what's the point of debate over religion? People have learned to consider their religions as absolutes.. "I'm this way, you're that way; if you make a point, I have to argue against it".
It's something like telling a judge to determine who the liar is. The stories don't match, so someone has to be lying. But the defendant and the plaintiff always have the perfect story to suit their case... so who is it, really?
The thing is, I've come to realize that nobody is going to change because you make a good case for it. Debate just reaffirms the "us and them" idea. You could put the undeniable proof right in front of someone's face, but if you do it with even a hint of hostility, it goes completely over their head, because they don't want to be wrong. Nobody likes to hear "I told you so".
That's the true root of all evil, the failure to compromise, to empathize. That's what starts wars, that's what creates hatred for one another. There will always be something to get into long, heated arguments about. It could be politics, life outlook, taste, and so on.
And I think the idea of this board.. "Try to convince people that you're right", is wrong. Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
I'm sorry if this is more of a rant..
-KBA
The interesting is that even in making your plea for general understanding you're pushing your view and expecting others to simply agree with you. Why should anyone accept your view on this point?
I don't think the "them" and "us" mentality has to do with which religion you're a part of. There are two sets of people, those who think for themselves and are content to be happy with their own beliefs, and those who will never be content until everyone believes as they do. I don't know what I expected when I first came here. I certainly didn't expect to change anyone's opinions... I don't care enough to be bothered about that (and let's face it, you can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink). I'd never joined a discussion forum like this one before, so I've learned a lot about what everyone else believes... and quite a bit about myself. But there comes a point where the learning grinds to a halt because you're faced with the same old stuff day in day out. Then it's time to call it a day and find something more stimulating. That's what we do in every other area of life... we progress.
I agree with you KBA.
QUOTE(IamsSon @ Sep 22 2007, 11:52 AM)
The interesting is that even in making your plea for general understanding you're pushing your view and expecting others to simply agree with you. Why should anyone accept your view on this point?
I really don't want to get into a debate in this thread. So please, let's save it. If you feel it's right to impose your views onto people, then go ahead
. Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.QUOTE(ThankPunt @ Sep 22 2007, 11:09 AM)
Hello, KBA,
Are you losing faith in the discussion board, or discovering faith within yourself? In yourself?
Are you losing faith in the discussion board, or discovering faith within yourself? In yourself?
I was talking about the discussion board.. I've been an atheist for a while now (Actually, I came here just a month or two after becoming an atheist, which I would think has some correlation).. Maybe just trying to re-affirm my newfound opinions in a place where I could actually openly discuss religion. But I've done that and now I just don't know why continue anymore.
QUOTE(Supra Sheri @ Sep 22 2007, 11:37 AM)
many at first come here to deal with approval from the masses, as we are taught to 'fit in ' not make waves "be the majority", suffer in silence ......do not question the status quo, for goodness sakes don't think for yourself... you have grown up and grown personally and outgrown this need and maybe have learned the only true change we can effect is with ourselves and its in this awareness that we can use our lives as our message..Really KBA, i see this as something to celebrate not be saddened about, your example will speak for itself.......way to go KBA you are what they call empowered IMO ...
I think, like I said a little bit above in this post, that is originally why I came here, to sort out my own opinions.. it was still quite confusing being an atheist in a fundamentalist Christian family unwilling to accept it. Always have to watch my words because if I say anything too "ungodly" it causes an uproar. And then of course, there were a lot of old friends who I had known for maybe 5,6,7 years that didn't want to see me anymore, etc. But I've long since done that now.. and reading all the topics here, I feel like a lot of it is just bitter bickering rather than actual important discourse.
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 12:01 PM)
I think, like I said a little bit above in this post, that is originally why I came here, to sort out my own opinions.. it was still quite confusing being an atheist in a fundamentalist Christian family unwilling to accept it. Always have to watch my words because if I say anything too "ungodly" it causes an uproar. And then of course, there were a lot of old friends who I had known for maybe 5,6,7 years that didn't want to see me anymore, etc. But I've long since done that now.. and reading all the topics here, I feel like a lot of it is just bitter bickering rather than actual important discourse.
Out of curiousity, what would be an example of something "ungodly" that you could say that would cause an uproar.
I ask because my mother and I have very different opinions on this topic and there are certain things I could say (and vice versa) that would cause her to become aggitated. But, out of mutual respect and love, it's SUPER easy to avoid those topics, so easy, I don't even have to consciencously think about it.
I was just curious.
QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Sep 22 2007, 01:18 PM)
Out of curiousity, what would be an example of something "ungodly" that you could say that would cause an uproar.
I ask because my mother and I have very different opinions on this topic and there are certain things I could say (and vice versa) that would cause her to become aggitated. But, out of mutual respect and love, it's SUPER easy to avoid those topics, so easy, I don't even have to consciencously think about it.
I was just curious.
I ask because my mother and I have very different opinions on this topic and there are certain things I could say (and vice versa) that would cause her to become aggitated. But, out of mutual respect and love, it's SUPER easy to avoid those topics, so easy, I don't even have to consciencously think about it.
I was just curious.
There's any number of things.. It's difficult to have a conversation of any depth with my dad without it steering into a god talk. I'll just give a few examples. One time I was reading a TIME poll, on religion and politics in the presidential race.. and I was surprised to see that over 60% of people said they would not vote for an Atheist to become president, regardless of their political opinions. Put into perspective, only about 40% said they would not vote for a Muslim... even when you can't publish a cartoon about Islam without someone, somewhere getting killed. My dad noticed it and said "That doesn't surprise me".. I asked him why, and he responded "Well atheists have their global warming terrorism". [That's a direct quote, I'm not making it up]. Another time, we were driving in the car, and I made a random remark "It's amazing how much metal there is in the earth". Like clockwork, he replied "Yeah, God made all that we need! I was talking to a friend the other day, and he was saying God probably made the dinosaurs so we would have enough oil." If I had continued a discussion like that with my real opinions, I might have had any number of things happen; money taken from my bank account, my laptop disappearing for weeks, etc. For all I know, my dad still thinks I believe in god but just don't like church. My mom is less trouble on religious issues. But that's more because she's very removed from things.. mentally unstable.
Don't worry about what anyone thinks about anything, and that includes me.
Ever heard this one?
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/waterboys-a-...ace-lyrics.html
Ever heard this one?
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/waterboys-a-...ace-lyrics.html
Thanks KBA, I see what you mean.
It's not unlike the issues my mother and I have, in fact, it's similar. Only the taboo topics are different. I think some of her viewpoints (which she interjects frequently into regular conversation) are nothing short of kooky.
My solution is to acknowlege her opinion, "wow, that's interesting mom" or "well, ma, that's one way to look at it" then I immediately change the subject to something I know won't start a debate that that neither of us will like.
She's done the same to me. It's a coping mechanism for us because we DO adore and love each other a great deal.
I guess it's a matter of what level of drama and conflict you want in your relationships. I want low drama and low conflict with my mother, so I am careful to take the steps necessary to keep it that way.
It's not unlike the issues my mother and I have, in fact, it's similar. Only the taboo topics are different. I think some of her viewpoints (which she interjects frequently into regular conversation) are nothing short of kooky.
My solution is to acknowlege her opinion, "wow, that's interesting mom" or "well, ma, that's one way to look at it" then I immediately change the subject to something I know won't start a debate that that neither of us will like.
She's done the same to me. It's a coping mechanism for us because we DO adore and love each other a great deal.
I guess it's a matter of what level of drama and conflict you want in your relationships. I want low drama and low conflict with my mother, so I am careful to take the steps necessary to keep it that way.
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 07:36 PM)
There's any number of things.. It's difficult to have a conversation of any depth with my dad without it steering into a god talk. I'll just give a few examples. One time I was reading a TIME poll, on religion and politics in the presidential race.. and I was surprised to see that over 60% of people said they would not vote for an Atheist to become president, regardless of their political opinions. Put into perspective, only about 40% said they would not vote for a Muslim... even when you can't publish a cartoon about Islam without someone, somewhere getting killed. My dad noticed it and said "That doesn't surprise me".. I asked him why, and he responded "Well atheists have their global warming terrorism". [That's a direct quote, I'm not making it up]. Another time, we were driving in the car, and I made a random remark "It's amazing how much metal there is in the earth". Like clockwork, he replied "Yeah, God made all that we need! I was talking to a friend the other day, and he was saying God probably made the dinosaurs so we would have enough oil." If I had continued a discussion like that with my real opinions, I might have had any number of things happen; money taken from my bank account, my laptop disappearing for weeks, etc. For all I know, my dad still thinks I believe in god but just don't like church. My mom is less trouble on religious issues. But that's more because she's very removed from things.. mentally unstable.
lol
will I ever find an atheist here that DIDN'T have religious pressure from one side or another?
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 09:55 PM)
lol
will I ever find an atheist here that DIDN'T have religious pressure from one side or another?
will I ever find an atheist here that DIDN'T have religious pressure from one side or another?
It's about BALANCE, NW
obviously
but I don't think they understand that
but I don't think they understand that
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 10:14 PM)
obviously
but I don't think they understand that
but I don't think they understand that
They will
Love ya, NW
nobody ever figures anything out on this planet I think, be are born wise, and die stupid
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 10:32 PM)
nobody ever figures anything out on this planet I think, be are born wise, and die stupid
We'll think about that one, NW
well I don't literally think so, It's just how I see the world today, it's my critique
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 10:38 PM)
well I don't literally think so, It's just how I see the world today, it's my critique
I understand what ya mean now
Goodnight, my friend
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 01:55 PM)
lol
will I ever find an atheist here that DIDN'T have religious pressure from one side or another?
will I ever find an atheist here that DIDN'T have religious pressure from one side or another?
Excuse me? Is that some sort of accusation? Oh, I'm so sorry that my family is unable to accept my views. The reason you rarely meet an atheist that hasn't is precisely because people have yet to let other people just live their lives. But just understand that while it might seem funny to you, it's destroying families every day. It's getting kids kicked out of their homes prematurely, it's causing parents to refuse to help with college tuition, and there are much more extreme examples, such as parents who try to beat it into their children.. There are so many people out there who are atheists, but still go to church every week and pretend to be a Christian because they know if they vocalized it, bad things would start to happen to them. If you think that's funny, then by all means, keep laughing.
QUOTE
Thanks KBA, I see what you mean.
It's not unlike the issues my mother and I have, in fact, it's similar. Only the taboo topics are different. I think some of her viewpoints (which she interjects frequently into regular conversation) are nothing short of kooky.
My solution is to acknowlege her opinion, "wow, that's interesting mom" or "well, ma, that's one way to look at it" then I immediately change the subject to something I know won't start a debate that that neither of us will like.
She's done the same to me. It's a coping mechanism for us because we DO adore and love each other a great deal.
I guess it's a matter of what level of drama and conflict you want in your relationships. I want low drama and low conflict with my mother, so I am careful to take the steps necessary to keep it that way.
It's not unlike the issues my mother and I have, in fact, it's similar. Only the taboo topics are different. I think some of her viewpoints (which she interjects frequently into regular conversation) are nothing short of kooky.
My solution is to acknowlege her opinion, "wow, that's interesting mom" or "well, ma, that's one way to look at it" then I immediately change the subject to something I know won't start a debate that that neither of us will like.
She's done the same to me. It's a coping mechanism for us because we DO adore and love each other a great deal.
I guess it's a matter of what level of drama and conflict you want in your relationships. I want low drama and low conflict with my mother, so I am careful to take the steps necessary to keep it that way.
It must just be a question of what type of person you're dealing with. I don't really have the choice to just avoid it, my dad constantly attempts to bring it up, and it's always surrounding me, I can't walk 5 feet in my house without running into a bible translation/dictionary, a Jesus clock or tote bag, notes from the latest sermon, books by Lee Strobel and authors like him.. and so on.
The only real way to avoid it, sadly, is to avoid communication altogether, which is normally what happens.
Its not that which is funny, but what I find funny is how predictable all this is getting.
I want to meet a real atheist who didn't turn to atheism to escape his past.
I know atheism make total sense to you now, but the question is, why did you search for those books you quote.
My guess, is that you are simply a victim of religious upbringing like (it seems) 90% of atheists on this forum.
I want to meet a real atheist who didn't turn to atheism to escape his past.
I know atheism make total sense to you now, but the question is, why did you search for those books you quote.
My guess, is that you are simply a victim of religious upbringing like (it seems) 90% of atheists on this forum.
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 02:01 PM)
I really don't want to get into a debate in this thread. So please, let's save it. If you feel it's right to impose your views onto people, then go ahead . Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.
. Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.How is this a response to my post? I pointed out that you were basically doing what you seem to be so disappointed that others do, expecting them to accept your view point just because you say so, and not actually presenting an argument why it should be accepted. Make a point, provide supporting arguments and then maybe at least you'll generate an interesting debate.
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 03:18 PM)
Its not that which is funny, but what I find funny is how predictable all this is getting.
I want to meet a real atheist who didn't turn to atheism to escape his past.
I know atheism make total sense to you now, but the question is, why did you search for those books you quote.
My guess, is that you are simply a victim of religious upbringing like (it seems) 90% of atheists on this forum.
I want to meet a real atheist who didn't turn to atheism to escape his past.
I know atheism make total sense to you now, but the question is, why did you search for those books you quote.
My guess, is that you are simply a victim of religious upbringing like (it seems) 90% of atheists on this forum.
Heh.. My past? In my past I was a happy fundamentalist Christian. Eventually, I took an objective view at it and became an atheist. That's when the problems started. I didn't become an atheist because I was bitter towards religion, when I became an atheist, it was coming from a point where I was bitter towards atheism... I just realized that I was wrong, and became an atheist; and I am currently, not just in the past, looked down upon by my family, whom I live with, for being an atheist. And what books am I quoting? I don't see any quotes from any books around here.
QUOTE
How is this a response to my post? I pointed out that you were basically doing what you seem to be so disappointed that others do, expecting them to accept your view point just because you say so, and not actually presenting an argument why it should be accepted. Make a point, provide supporting arguments and then maybe at least you'll generate an interesting debate.
I already told you.. I'm not trying to debate here. I'm asking what the point of debate is.
I think we can all agree that:
It's good to be nice to other people.
It's not nice to impose your beliefs on other people.
It's good to not impose your beliefs on other people.
Alright?
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 09:51 PM)
Heh.. My past? In my past I was a happy fundamentalist Christian. Eventually, I took an objective view at it and became an atheist. That's when the problems started. I didn't become an atheist because I was bitter towards religion, when I became an atheist, it was coming from a point where I was bitter towards atheism... I just realized that I was wrong, and became an atheist; and I am currently, not just in the past, looked down upon by my family, whom I live with, for being an atheist. And what books am I quoting? I don't see any quotes from any books around here.
I already told you.. I'm not trying to debate here. I'm asking what the point of debate is.
I already told you.. I'm not trying to debate here. I'm asking what the point of debate is.
well In that case we may have ourselves a real honest atheist
and books, I meant The GOD delusion and such
QUOTE(Shadow_Hill @ Sep 22 2007, 11:17 AM)
I don't think the "them" and "us" mentality has to do with which religion you're a part of. There are two sets of people, those who think for themselves and are content to be happy with their own beliefs, and those who will never be content until everyone believes as they do. I don't know what I expected when I first came here. I certainly didn't expect to change anyone's opinions... I don't care enough to be bothered about that (and let's face it, you can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink). I'd never joined a discussion forum like this one before, so I've learned a lot about what everyone else believes... and quite a bit about myself. But there comes a point where the learning grinds to a halt because you're faced with the same old stuff day in day out. Then it's time to call it a day and find something more stimulating. That's what we do in every other area of life... we progress.
S. very well said... We generally are in situations that will help us grow...i think its the idealism of the youth to want to change things, and i support it .... yet, it really boils down to the change we wish to see, can only happen through us...the way we use our life is the change..IMO...
Well I'll admit I try to change beliefs. They effect me in some way. It' s like trying to crack a nut. (no pun intended)
Christians have been always trying to do it to me so I thought it's time to return the favor
I'm out to save.
Nothing worthwhile is gained without a fight they say (I'm talking sheet)
Christians have been always trying to do it to me so I thought it's time to return the favor
I'm out to save.
Nothing worthwhile is gained without a fight they say (I'm talking sheet)
QUOTE
I already told you.. I'm not trying to debate here. I'm asking what the point of debate is.
I think we can all agree that:
It's good to be nice to other people.
It's not nice to impose your beliefs on other people.
It's good to not impose your beliefs on other people.
Alright?
I think we can all agree that:
It's good to be nice to other people.
It's not nice to impose your beliefs on other people.
It's good to not impose your beliefs on other people.
Alright?
I'm not trying to debate either KBA, I'm trying to point out that your OP itself:
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 07:43 AM)
Because until people realize that their own truths need only apply to themselves, and it makes no difference if someone agrees with those truths or not (As long as those they are not harming anyone), nothing's going to change, and we're going to keep killing ourselves for no real reason.
is actually in opposition to what you're saying you want, since you are, in effect, trying to force your belief on others. It is irrational to say that truths apply to only one person. truth is not subjective, perception of truth may be subjective, but truth itself is not.
QUOTE
is actually in opposition to what you're saying you want, since you are, in effect, trying to force your belief on others. It is irrational to say that truths apply to only one person. truth is not subjective, perception of truth may be subjective, but truth itself is not.
"A triviality is a statement whose opposite is false. However, a great truth is a statement whose opposite may well be another great truth." (Niels Bohr)
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 03:01 PM)
Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 05:14 PM)
Oh, I'm so sorry that my family is unable to accept my views. The reason you rarely meet an atheist that hasn't is precisely because people have yet to let other people just live their lives. But just understand that while it might seem funny to you, it's destroying families every day. It's getting kids kicked out of their homes prematurely, it's causing parents to refuse to help with college tuition, and there are much more extreme examples, such as parents who try to beat it into their children.. There are so many people out there who are atheists, but still go to church every week and pretend to be a Christian because they know if they vocalized it, bad things would start to happen to them. If you think that's funny, then by all means, keep laughing.
I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you here, KBA, but I'm noticing a trend. I honestly don't mean to put my nose in your business, but PM me sometime if you'd like to talk. Take care!
QUOTE(DeVoL @ Sep 22 2007, 09:58 PM)
I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you here, KBA, but I'm noticing a trend. I honestly don't mean to put my nose in your business, but PM me sometime if you'd like to talk. Take care!
Heh, I appreciate it but I'm past letting something like that bother me by now, with other things that have happened.
But of course, I can only speak for myself.. there's plenty of people out there who are just about going insane because of these things. It really is a problem and it's more common than might be expected.
The offer's open if/when you choose to accept it. Good luck to you, sir!
QUOTE(KBA @ Sep 22 2007, 08:01 PM)
I really don't want to get into a debate in this thread. So please, let's save it. If you feel it's right to impose your views onto people, then go ahead . Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.
I was talking about the discussion board.. I've been an atheist for a while now (Actually, I came here just a month or two after becoming an atheist, which I would think has some correlation).. Maybe just trying to re-affirm my newfound opinions in a place where I could actually openly discuss religion. But I've done that and now I just don't know why continue anymore.
I think, like I said a little bit above in this post, that is originally why I came here, to sort out my own opinions.. it was still quite confusing being an atheist in a fundamentalist Christian family unwilling to accept it. Always have to watch my words because if I say anything too "ungodly" it causes an uproar. And then of course, there were a lot of old friends who I had known for maybe 5,6,7 years that didn't want to see me anymore, etc. But I've long since done that now.. and reading all the topics here, I feel like a lot of it is just bitter bickering rather than actual important discourse.
. Just don't be surprised when those people desert you.I was talking about the discussion board.. I've been an atheist for a while now (Actually, I came here just a month or two after becoming an atheist, which I would think has some correlation).. Maybe just trying to re-affirm my newfound opinions in a place where I could actually openly discuss religion. But I've done that and now I just don't know why continue anymore.
I think, like I said a little bit above in this post, that is originally why I came here, to sort out my own opinions.. it was still quite confusing being an atheist in a fundamentalist Christian family unwilling to accept it. Always have to watch my words because if I say anything too "ungodly" it causes an uproar. And then of course, there were a lot of old friends who I had known for maybe 5,6,7 years that didn't want to see me anymore, etc. But I've long since done that now.. and reading all the topics here, I feel like a lot of it is just bitter bickering rather than actual important discourse.
Whats wrong KBA....did I hit a home truth run???
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 05:14 PM)
Are you kidding me? Religion is a minority on this board. This is a hardcore atheist site
Die hard atheist...wow you dont get on line much these days..and you haven't met many atheists neither
QUOTE(northwest @ Sep 22 2007, 09:14 PM)
obviously
but I don't think they understand that
but I don't think they understand that
Neither do you, you tend to see what suits you...lol..you think its all atheism on here..WOW...well then you must love atheists and their ideas..so don't complain
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