dcman
Sep 23 2007, 05:23 AM
By Stanton T. Friedman
When I began the civilian research on the Roswell, New Mexico, crashed saucer story in l978, I had no idea that it would become the one of the best known UFO cases ever., or that I would still be doing more research 20 years later. I located many witnesses, have been to 18 archives seeking documents about Roswell and especially Operation Majestic 12, and to many libraries looking for newspaper coverage. My name is on a number of papers and the books "Crash at Corona" and "TOP SECRET/MAJIC". I talk about the case in my CD-ROM : "UFOs: The Real Story",and in my videos "UFOs are Real" and in "Flying Saucers Are Real". I keep saying that I am racing the undertaker since many key witnesses have died, not surprising after 51 years. Still I am embarrassed that I had more or less ignored what may turn out to be a crucial "document" that I first located about 20 years ago.
I had contacted the Ft. Worth, Texas, Star Telegram back then after Bill Moore had dug out a number of newspaper articles about Roswell at the Periodicals Department of the University of Minnesota Library in Minneapolis. I had shared with him the information that I had obtained earlier from Jesse Marcel, the Intelligence officer of the 509th Composite Bomb Group in Roswell, who had recovered saucer wreckage from a ranch North of Roswell, and the story told me by Jean and Vern Maltais about Barney Barnett’s experience finding saucer wreckage and strange bodies in New Mexico. But neither could pin down a date. Bill had found the third story, Hughie Green hearing about a New Mexico crashed saucer on the radio while driving from Los Angeles to Philadelphia. Green could pin down the date to late June early July 1947. Bill found the articles and shared them with me .There were pictures of Jesse , General Roger.Ramey, Colonel T.J. DuBose, and meteorologist Irving Newton with the substituted wreckage of a radar reflector and weather balloon taken in Ramey’s office at Ft. Worth Army Air Field. I contacted the Star Telegram, got copies of their articles and their pictures, made from the original negatives. I have used slides of some of these in most of my lectures since l980.
Thus, when the original Fort Worth Photographer, J.Bond Johnson, made a big fuss in mid l998 about new enlarged prints showing the real so called I-beams with strange symbols described by Dr. Jesse Marcel Junior,. I, too, ordered a new set this time 11"x14" from the University of Texas, Arlington, Archives, The newspaper had donated its old files to the Special Collections Department at the Archives. It turns out Bond wasn’t familiar with the I- beam replica and symbols that had been created. based on Dr. Marcel’s testimony. We argued about what was in the pictures. I discussed Bond’s claims with Dr. Marcel and we agreed that we could see no signs of the I-beams or symbols. However, we both paid no attention to the memo that General Ramey, Head of the 8th Air Force, of which the 509th was a part, held in his hand... actually in 3 different pictures.. In two no print is visible, but the third when seen in enlargement clearly had print on it.
There had been various efforts made over the years to read the memo, but to no avail. But that was before modern computer image scanning equipment and software became available. So I was both caught short, but ready to look when Ron Regehr, an aerospace engineer on the West Coast, whom I have know for several years, announced that he and Bond and others had actually been able to read some of the words. One phrase really caught my eye "2nd crash site SW of Magdalena". That didn’t mean anything to Ron, but it surely did to me. The Barney Barnett story had taken place in the Plains of San Augustin, SW of Magdalena. Magdalena at that time was a thriving town. The rail head was located in Magdalena, so ranchers drove their cattle there across the flat Plains surrounded by mountains. There were many operating mines in the vicinity. Now it is almost a ghost town because the rail head left years ago with the advent of big trucks, and the mines have closed.
I immediately approached Rob Belyea owner of Pro-Lab , just a mile from my home in Fredericton, one of the top ten photographic labs in Canada. Rob has more than 30 years experience in the photography business and very sophisticated software for scanning and digitalizing pictures, slides, etc. I had seen him in action concerning some other pictures and was very favorably impressed. He scanned both my 11x14 and my old 8x10. The latter was much cleaner since the negative had obviously not been handled much when I obtained my prints in l978. I managed to convince the UTA person to have an 8x10 print made of the small area including the memo. Rob indicated that the negative had more information than any print, but UTA would‘t let it out of their sight.
I talked to the Star Telegram and they indicated mild interest in having the scan done since they still had, by the terms of their original gift, the right to use any of the material that had been donated. I also discussed the problems with Victor Golubic of Phoenix who has for years been researching various aspects of the Roswell story such as the medical staff and witness testimony out in the Plains. He managed to locate a really topnotch image scanning company in Dallas not far from the UTA. I had to pay for the negative to be escorted to their facility and for the scanning of the front and back of the memo portion of the 4x5 negative on to a CDROM .. The speed graphic was the standard press camera in l947 with thick sheet film. A scan was also done of the entire negative. Not surprisingly there is a lot of noise in all the scans. But with 4 different scans available, the original 8x10 print, the 11x14 print, the large cropped 8x10 and the negative, I am confident that the puzzle will be solved. There are complications such as the paper having been folded and different parts of the memo being at different distances from the camera and not being uniformly illuminated by the big bright flashbulb used.. All of the scans have benn added to the Negative scans on the same CD-ROM. Tune in next week.
One fascinating question is whether the United States Air Force, which had obtained a duplicate negative from UTA and claimed in its huge Project Mogul report that they had found nothing of interest after having another agency, presumably the CIA , process it, has gone and looked again after seeing the Internet stories. This is one case where nobody can claim that the evidence has been tampered with since the negative has been under control for 51 years. The odds would seem to be much better than even that the memo will be deciphered thanks to the talents of people like Ron Regehr and Rob Belyea and Victor Golubic and the dogged persistence of J. Bond Johnson.
.
skyeagle409
Sep 23 2007, 03:17 PM
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 23 2007, 05:23 AM)

By Stanton T. Friedman
...There had been various efforts made over the years to read the memo, but to no avail. But that was before modern computer image scanning equipment and software became available. So I was both caught short, but ready to look when Ron Regehr, an aerospace engineer on the West Coast,...
I noticed the name, Ron Regehr, who is an aerospace engineer and worked for Aeroject, a company that built NORAD's DSP satellites and he indicated that NORAD has been tracking UFOs in space and that those satellites have been tracking UFOs within Earth's atmosphere as well.
Sooner or later, people everywhere, are going to know that the Roswell incident involved no balloon of any kind.
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
Sep 23 2007, 04:53 PM
And when that day comes everyone who has laughed at me will finally know they were wrong. I will be the one laughing AT THEM!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry
captain pish
Sep 23 2007, 05:10 PM
I remember this story going round a few years back. Why has it only just come to their attention now? I saw blown up images of the letter which referred to a second craft and crash site ages ago. The fact that nothing ever came of it suggests to me that it doesnt contain anything of relevance at all. Old news
skyeagle409
Sep 24 2007, 12:34 AM
QUOTE(captain pish @ Sep 23 2007, 05:10 PM)

I remember this story going round a few years back. Why has it only just come to their attention now? I saw blown up images of the letter which referred to a second craft and crash site ages ago. The fact that nothing ever came of it suggests to me that it doesnt contain anything of relevance at all. Old news
I find mention of a second crash site very interesting since there are those who have mentioned a second site, which would indicate why the main wreckage was not found on the Foster ranch.
psyche101
Sep 24 2007, 06:08 AM
I do not believe anything of relevance can be gained fro that photograph, and this incident alone shows Mr. Friedmans zealous nature in regards to this incident. His mind is well and trully made up and no amount of fact will change that.
I do not believe the "breakthrough". That phtotgraph was not created with the required resolution to extract what we have been lead to believe has been extracted.
No matter how much you blow up a blob, it is still a blob. That is not tiny writing, it is a black pixel. Blow it up and you have a bigger black pixel. Just a black square no more. This sort of attention seeking seriously places massive doubt on the credibility of the Roswell suacer crash scenario.
dcman
Sep 24 2007, 02:18 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 24 2007, 06:08 AM)

I do not believe anything of relevance can be gained fro that photograph, and this incident alone shows Mr. Friedmans zealous nature in regards to this incident. His mind is well and trully made up and no amount of fact will change that.
I do not believe the "breakthrough". That phtotgraph was not created with the required resolution to extract what we have been lead to believe has been extracted.
No matter how much you blow up a blob, it is still a blob. That is not tiny writing, it is a black pixel. Blow it up and you have a bigger black pixel. Just a black square no more. This sort of attention seeking seriously places massive doubt on the credibility of the Roswell suacer crash scenario.
Have you seen the Ramey scans...I have them, but the files are too big to post them here. Some words are clearly made out while others are not. I guess 60 years ago they did not think that technology today would be able to use computerized image enhancement to extract data, or Ramey would not have had that piece of paper in his hand.
psyche101
Sep 25 2007, 01:50 AM
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 25 2007, 12:18 AM)

Have you seen the Ramey scans...I have them, but the files are too big to post them here. Some words are clearly made out while others are not. I guess 60 years ago they did not think that technology today would be able to use computerized image enhancement to extract data, or Ramey would not have had that piece of paper in his hand.
Thing is, the technology is not available today, and I seriously doubt it ever will be. You cannot enhance that image - it is not a fractal, it has a defined shape, and at that resolution, from that distance, no way, not ever. I simply do not believe this, it is an outright fabrication. The data is lost, no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back. Contrary to poopular belief, computers actually cannot "do anything".
No matter how much you enhace a blob, it is still a blob, just a very defined one. Once again, it clearly demonstrates Mr. Friedmans zealous nature toward this particular controversial incident. It removes credibility from the case in question.
skyeagle409
Sep 25 2007, 03:07 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 25 2007, 01:50 AM)

Thing is, the technology is not available today, and I seriously doubt it ever will be.
That is why the UFOs in question, are not those of mankind, because we don't have the technology.
A.J.H.
Sep 25 2007, 04:03 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 24 2007, 09:50 PM)

Thing is, the technology is not available today, and I seriously doubt it ever will be. You cannot enhance that image - it is not a fractal, it has a defined shape, and at that resolution, from that distance, no way, not ever. I simply do not believe this, it is an outright fabrication. The data is lost, no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back. Contrary to poopular belief, computers actually cannot "do anything".
No matter how much you enhace a blob, it is still a blob, just a very defined one. Once again, it clearly demonstrates Mr. Friedmans zealous nature toward this particular controversial incident. It removes credibility from the case in question.
You don't seem to be very sure in this assessment.

May I ask what gives you the authority on this matter? (this is not intended to be a rude question whatsoever)
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
Sep 26 2007, 01:27 AM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 25 2007, 01:50 AM)

Thing is, the technology is not available today, and I seriously doubt it ever will be. You cannot enhance that image - it is not a fractal, it has a defined shape, and at that resolution, from that distance, no way, not ever. I simply do not believe this, it is an outright fabrication. The data is lost, no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back. Contrary to poopular belief, computers actually cannot "do anything".
No matter how much you enhace a blob, it is still a blob, just a very defined one. Once again, it clearly demonstrates Mr. Friedmans zealous nature toward this particular controversial incident. It removes credibility from the case in question.
Seriously you need to look at the info before you post again. Some of the words are very easy to make out. And I know your are very skeptical of everything, but you cannot deny black and white.
psyche101
Sep 26 2007, 03:48 AM
QUOTE(A.J.H. @ Sep 26 2007, 02:03 AM)

You don't seem to be very sure in this assessment.

May I ask what gives you the authority on this matter? (this is not intended to be a rude question whatsoever)
No, not a rude question at all, I'd ask the same thing.
I spent 4 years as an IT administrator for a small business, which was rapidlly growing into a large business. I obtained a cert 3, upgrading to cert 4, then I'll see. (still studying for my CCNA, although that is completely irrelevant to this problem) In that capacity, it was my responsibility to set up numerous web pages, interfaces and promotional documents. Graphics became a huge part of my work during this time, as such, it included recovering some really difficult pieces of text from photographs. When supervisors would attend a seminar, rather than take notes, they would use their mobile phone to take a picture of the notes written on the boards. Some pieces were impossible. It created quite some heated "discussions". Pretty close to what is attempting to be achieved here. Text on a blackboard is much larger than it seems in this memo as well. I consulted major graphics firms in my vicinity to see if they could offer insight. I also spent months personally tackling the problem, UNIX had a close solution to reconstruct, but one needs something to work with in the first place. From previous experience, combined with advice from several proffesionals, I have found one needs something to work with in the first place, this is simply not the case of the photo containing the Ramey photo. To capture text that small from that distance, a camera with a very high resolution needs to be used so that you actually can zoom in on the item. The required pixelation breakdown just is not there. Scanning is a good option, and the only way to actually increase an image of any sort with some quality, and I have had some great results, as you are in a sense resetting the resolution, but once again, you need a starting point. The camera takes a picture of what you see, this is different from a digital image like a fractal, which is made up of tiny shapes built upon one another, this is just one shape, and blowing it up just makes that one shape bigger, it does not enhance the definition. Take any pic and start blowing it up on your PC, as soon as you surpass 100% size you will see degredation. Same thing. Pictures have to be designed to get that sort of detail from so little data. Take a look at
this fractal. It is made up of many small shapes. The original will be in high resolution, if you blow it up, you just keep entering deeper and deeper into the picture and no loss. Now copy any FBI memo in one of the many Roswell threads and try to take say a signature, and blow it up. A blob blows up into a big blob.
See what I mean.
Reading that back I think, geez I babble. If anything is unclear, ask, I will attempt to clarify.

Hope that helps. Cheers.
psyche101
Sep 26 2007, 03:50 AM
QUOTE(skyeagle409 @ Sep 26 2007, 01:07 AM)

That is why the UFOs in question, are not those of mankind, because we don't have the technology.
I agree to an extent, some of the things that have been described and recorded certainly do not exhibit man made properties.
psyche101
Sep 26 2007, 04:30 AM
QUOTE(Enigma wrapped in a puzzle @ Sep 26 2007, 11:27 AM)

Seriously you need to look at the info before you post again. Some of the words are very easy to make out. And I know your are very skeptical of everything, but you cannot deny black and white.
True, I am quite skeptical of most things. Not sure if that is age or wisdom LOL. I have seen it in here said the skeptism and cynism are confused, very profound, not sure which I am. Seeing so many childhood dreams debunked successfully give one a very skeptial edge, but I do concede to black and white, however, based on the black and white in my textbooks and manuals, this cannot be done.
Here are some examples of the memo
#1#2#3I have personally worked with better images with no result obtainable. This resolution is not high enough to obtain clear wording. Even good scans of illegible text only creates big pictures of illegible text.
dcman
Sep 26 2007, 02:30 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 26 2007, 04:30 AM)

True, I am quite skeptical of most things. Not sure if that is age or wisdom LOL. I have seen it in here said the skeptism and cynism are confused, very profound, not sure which I am. Seeing so many childhood dreams debunked successfully give one a very skeptial edge, but I do concede to black and white, however, based on the black and white in my textbooks and manuals, this cannot be done.
Here are some examples of the memo
#1#2#3I have personally worked with better images with no result obtainable. This resolution is not high enough to obtain clear wording. Even good scans of illegible text only creates big pictures of illegible text.
I have better scans then those you post, which I obtained from Stanton Friedman. The ones I have you can clearly make out the words.
A.J.H.
Sep 26 2007, 02:56 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 25 2007, 11:48 PM)

No, not a rude question at all, I'd ask the same thing.
I spent 4 years as an IT administrator for a small business, which was rapidlly growing into a large business. I obtained a cert 3, upgrading to cert 4, then I'll see. (still studying for my CCNA, although that is completely irrelevant to this problem) In that capacity, it was my responsibility to set up numerous web pages, interfaces and promotional documents. Graphics became a huge part of my work during this time, as such, it included recovering some really difficult pieces of text from photographs. When supervisors would attend a seminar, rather than take notes, they would use their mobile phone to take a picture of the notes written on the boards. Some pieces were impossible. It created quite some heated "discussions". Pretty close to what is attempting to be achieved here. Text on a blackboard is much larger than it seems in this memo as well. I consulted major graphics firms in my vicinity to see if they could offer insight. I also spent months personally tackling the problem, UNIX had a close solution to reconstruct, but one needs something to work with in the first place. From previous experience, combined with advice from several proffesionals, I have found one needs something to work with in the first place, this is simply not the case of the photo containing the Ramey photo. To capture text that small from that distance, a camera with a very high resolution needs to be used so that you actually can zoom in on the item. The required pixelation breakdown just is not there. Scanning is a good option, and the only way to actually increase an image of any sort with some quality, and I have had some great results, as you are in a sense resetting the resolution, but once again, you need a starting point. The camera takes a picture of what you see, this is different from a digital image like a fractal, which is made up of tiny shapes built upon one another, this is just one shape, and blowing it up just makes that one shape bigger, it does not enhance the definition. Take any pic and start blowing it up on your PC, as soon as you surpass 100% size you will see degredation. Same thing. Pictures have to be designed to get that sort of detail from so little data. Take a look at
this fractal. It is made up of many small shapes. The original will be in high resolution, if you blow it up, you just keep entering deeper and deeper into the picture and no loss. Now copy any FBI memo in one of the many Roswell threads and try to take say a signature, and blow it up. A blob blows up into a big blob.
See what I mean.
Reading that back I think, geez I babble. If anything is unclear, ask, I will attempt to clarify.

Hope that helps. Cheers.
Wow, I just wanted to know your backing credentials. I appreciate the effort put forth in this reply, thank you.
Clear as day too.
psyche101
Sep 27 2007, 05:13 AM
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 27 2007, 12:30 AM)

I have better scans then those you post, which I obtained from Stanton Friedman. The ones I have you can clearly make out the words.
I think you are missing the point, I am saying any scan that offers a legible word is a fake for the reasons I have stated. There is no word in the original, just a picture of a blob in the distance. Have a look at the fractal link and you will see what I mean. There is no word to work with to start, getting bigger does not mean a bigger word, just a bigger blob. A quality digital camera with a high resolution and a decent optical zoom may have offered the required resolution to make this recovery.
Slim1
Sep 27 2007, 07:51 PM
I remember watching a documentary on the history channel about Roswell. Stanton Friedman was on it and they had the Ramey memo analysed by a company. After they enlarged it and whatever they do you could make out some of the letters and words. It was a really good documentary, I'll see if I can find it on Google, or somewhere else.
psyche101
Sep 28 2007, 02:56 AM
QUOTE(Slim1 @ Sep 28 2007, 05:51 AM)

I remember watching a documentary on the history channel about Roswell. Stanton Friedman was on it and they had the Ramey memo analysed by a company. After they enlarged it and whatever they do you could make out some of the letters and words. It was a really good documentary, I'll see if I can find it on Google, or somewhere else.
Yes please, do. I am very interested to see what equipment and software they are using as it is beyond what we are capable of. Building a time machine to return and get a photo with better resolution would be a much easier way to recover the desired content, but then it wont say anything about aliens or downed craft I'll warrant.
Slim1
Sep 28 2007, 04:56 PM
So far I found this site,
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/It has the same information on it as the show I saw did. I'm pretty sure these are some of the people from the documentary I saw that were involved in the analysis of Gen. Ramey's memo. Unfortunately I can't remember the title of the documentary so it may take a day or so to find it. When I get home I'll check if I downloaded it onto my desktop.
Edit to add
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/a...uran_randle.pdf I have only skimmed through this and it seems that all the information from the show I saw is in here.
outsider75
Oct 5 2007, 07:50 AM
oddly enuff when i worked for Wachovia they used the same tactic in business deals. they never missed a detail in their meetings which is why they have expanded so much in the last 4 years.
but it can be done but to do you need the $ to do it.
Scudbuster
Oct 5 2007, 11:12 PM
I saw the History Channel program on Roswell where they deciphered the Ramey memo. I forget the name of the company that provided the equipment and analysis of the memo- but it was highly convincing. It was also very chilling in a sense - there it was right on your screen, actual proof from an official military document that Roswell, in fact, did happen.
PersonFromPorlock
Oct 6 2007, 10:28 PM
QUOTE(psyche101 @ Sep 24 2007, 02:08 AM)

No matter how much you blow up a blob, it is still a blob.
BUT... there are blobs and blobs; if the blob from the letter "T" is different from the one from the letter "K" and so on in some orderly way, it may be possible to add enough information to the image (in the form of "
this blob is probably
this letter) to read the memo. I suspect that Army typewriters of the day all used the same typeface or pretty nearly so, so the variables are quite restricted.
This is speculative, though. On its face, your criticism is well founded.
Slim1
Oct 7 2007, 11:11 AM
QUOTE(PersonFromPorlock @ Oct 6 2007, 06:28 PM)

BUT... there are blobs and blobs; if the blob from the letter "T" is different from the one from the letter "K" and so on in some orderly way, it may be possible to add enough information to the image (in the form of "this blob is probably this letter) to read the memo. I suspect that Army typewriters of the day all used the same typeface or pretty nearly so, so the variables are quite restricted.
This is speculative, though. On its face, your criticism is well founded.
They did that in the analysis on the documentary. I wish I could remember what it was called. I have search and search, watched a lot of videos about Roswell and still have not come across this particular documentary. If anyone knows the name of it or if you have a copy of it then please post it. I'll keep looking for it.
JC Denton
Oct 7 2007, 09:54 PM
This is a good read from a skeptical perspective.
psyche101
Oct 8 2007, 05:55 AM
QUOTE(JC Denton @ Oct 8 2007, 07:54 AM)

This is a good read from a skeptical perspective.
Thank you for the alternative perspective.
This article confirms what I was saying in that nothing is there to work with to start. Insufficient quality and resolution.
psyche101
Oct 8 2007, 06:04 AM
QUOTE(PersonFromPorlock @ Oct 7 2007, 08:28 AM)

BUT... there are blobs and blobs; if the blob from the letter "T" is different from the one from the letter "K" and so on in some orderly way, it may be possible to add enough information to the image (in the form of "this blob is probably this letter) to read the memo. I suspect that Army typewriters of the day all used the same typeface or pretty nearly so, so the variables are quite restricted.
This is speculative, though. On its face, your criticism is well founded.
Thank you. I was assigned a similar task, so to an extent, I was relaying experience. Your idea may help to decipher, but a large part of the memo is not even showing, even if we could guess an accurate representation of what the memo may say, we only have part of the information in any case, whuch leaves much room for interpretation, speculation, and possibly back further than we are now. No doubt what some will claim it says.
This reminds me of the Patterson Bigfoot film. 40 years and we only still have speculation, no proof either way. Pieces of non information madden me as no result can be obtained from the available evidence. In my opinion, such "evidence" is better off in the bin.
NO MORE BLOBSQUATCH.