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dcman
I have been reading this post at ATS and would like to open it for discussion here.

Here’s an image of the Moon, specifically at coordinates:
Latitude = -35 (not 35)
Longitude = 208

linked-image

linked-image

What do you think it could be? And I would also like to mention here that it is apparent that some sort of tampering has been done to try and hide the object. But it’s a pretty shoddy job.

An artificial construct? A film processing glitch? A UFO? Or a natural geological feature? You be the judge! As for me, one way or the other, that thing is pretty intriguing!


The twelfth Disclosure witness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJPD_emdcBg

linked-image
Click here to to blow-up of THIS object: http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/Moon100500color.jpg


linked-image
Click here to to blow-up of THIS object: http://keithlaney.net/ApolloOrbitalimages/...6-118-18957.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rt7mnz4J5E


linked-image

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04...arcus_MA_03.png


Anyone want to discuss these images on the moon?
dcman
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 25 2007, 03:34 PM) *
I have been reading this post at ATS and would like to open it for discussion here.

Here’s an image of the Moon, specifically at coordinates:
Latitude = -35 (not 35)
Longitude = 208

linked-image

linked-image

What do you think it could be? And I would also like to mention here that it is apparent that some sort of tampering has been done to try and hide the object. But it’s a pretty shoddy job.

An artificial construct? A film processing glitch? A UFO? Or a natural geological feature? You be the judge! As for me, one way or the other, that thing is pretty intriguing!
The twelfth Disclosure witness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJPD_emdcBg

linked-image
Click here to to blow-up of THIS object: http://www.usno.navy.mil/pao/Moon100500color.jpg
linked-image
Click here to to blow-up of THIS object: http://keithlaney.net/ApolloOrbitalimages/...6-118-18957.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rt7mnz4J5E
linked-image

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04...arcus_MA_03.png
Anyone want to discuss these images on the moon?



Looking at these objects leaves me wondering if these aren't alien structures on the moon, either that or we have been working on the moon for some time now...secretly.
BishopRyan
I have a hard time putting any validity into this because there are hundreds if not thousands of amatuer astronomers out there, and not a peep from any of them on any of their forums. Compelling read though.
ZeroGhost
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 25 2007, 12:28 PM) *
Looking at these objects leaves me wondering if these aren't alien structures on the moon, either that or we have been working on the moon for some time now...secretly.


I say it is not out of the realm of possibility that there are not only ancient structures from ancient Earth and other civilizations, but other facilities for visiting or permanent living entities. The many millions of years the Moon has been there, and subsequent cycles of civilizations whose technology could have equaled or was in advance ours, plus the fact, many of us have experienced that other beings and their technology are now and have been here, maybe millions of years, so Duh. No brainer. It is just a matter of looking.

What I find I cannot believe is that NASA has done such a crappy job of retouch on these images. I do retouching professionally and if I did it you would never know. Who are the unskilled workers doing the shoddy work? Hard to believe they would obscure part and not all the imagery. Also, you have seen all the other shots I'm sure, and what numbskull thinks selecting an area and using "blur" will cover anything up except half an ass?

If we get public probes that are not beholden to the DOD or darker areas of so called govenment control, we can task imagery from these locations and see some truth. Did I just see that Google money is going to support a Moon mission for robotics to be placed and remotely controlled and connected so all can web-see the transmissions? I'll look.

Yep. Here's the link.

Google: Put a rover on the moon, win $30 million - CNN.com
Google Inc. is bankrolling a $30 million out-of-this-world prize to the first private company that can safely land a robotic rover on the moon and beam back ...
www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/09/13/google.moon.prize.ap/ - 56k -
ZeroGhost
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 25 2007, 12:28 PM) *
Looking at these objects leaves me wondering if these aren't alien structures on the moon, either that or we have been working on the moon for some time now...secretly.


Actually your postulate is incorrect. I am an amateur astronomer (17" Dob and 30 years observing), I have, and I have friends who also have seen things. Case in point. I was at an astronomy conference RTMC a few years ago. The conference was for telescope makers, so we are at 9K altitude near Big Bear in So CA. There where close to 200 amateurs and their telescopes on this mountain, everyone was looking at the sky, trying each other’s scopes out and it was a clear night.

We saw a structured weird green craft fly overhead about 200 to 500 feet above the area traveling at the speed of a light aircraft. No sound, but highly strange. It looked like only a section of this whatever it was lit by a very saturated green light. I shouted "look!" and many in the local area (cut off by trees from the rest of the group as these scopes where set up in campsites at Camp Oaks spread across the mountain top), and no one, I MEAN NO ONE, said a peep. Like they where hoping it did not happen.

I have friends who are well known Physicists who would NOT want to see such things and would go to such lengths as to explain it away in multiple theories to show you how it would more likely be explainable. So I would disagree that there are no discussions due to no evidence. Such evidence is denied in the face of it just like someone will deny they drink or smoke too much. Humans are very self-protected from awareness that threatens their ontological views.
BishopRyan
Have you seen structures on the moon with your telescope or not?
DigitalSentinal
ZeroGhost, I wholeheartedly agree with you 101%. thumbsup.gif
ZeroGhost
QUOTE(ZeroGhost @ Sep 25 2007, 01:28 PM) *
Actually your postulate is incorrect. I am an amateur astronomer (17" Dob and 30 years observing), I have, and I have friends who also have seen things. Case in point. I was at an astronomy conference RTMC a few years ago. The conference was for telescope makers, so we are at 9K altitude near Big Bear in So CA. There where close to 200 amateurs and their telescopes on this mountain, everyone was looking at the sky, trying each other’s scopes out and it was a clear night.

We saw a structured weird green craft fly overhead about 200 to 500 feet above the area traveling at the speed of a light aircraft. No sound, but highly strange. It looked like only a section of this whatever it was lit by a very saturated green light. I shouted "look!" and many in the local area (cut off by trees from the rest of the group as these scopes where set up in campsites at Camp Oaks spread across the mountain top), and no one, I MEAN NO ONE, said a peep. Like they where hoping it did not happen.

I have friends who are well known Physicists who would NOT want to see such things and would go to such lengths as to explain it away in multiple theories to show you how it would more likely be explainable. So I would disagree that there are no discussions due to no evidence. Such evidence is denied in the face of it just like someone will deny they drink or smoke too much. Humans are very self-protected from awareness that threatens their ontological views.



No. Standard terrestrial telescopes cannot easily get detail as atmospheric distortion at the resolutions here would be swimming. There are tricks, and I will try and keep trying, but a #10 seeing night and stable upper air could get pretty close views.

GMM
GirlInBlack
I have asked and looked for photos taken by independent observatories, but have yet to find any that have this kind of detail. Were these photos taken from orbit? I do not fully trust any photos released by NASA or any government site.
GirlInBlack
Here is a more in depth look at moon anomalies. These are all NASA photos though, so who knows if they have been tampered with.

American researcher Steve Wingate was the first person to bring world attention to the anomaly in the far side Lobachevsky Crater by posting the old Apollo 16 photograph and several new views from the recent Clementine mapping mission to the Lunascan Mailing List. Even more recently, eminent German geologist and science writer Dr. Johannes Fiebag confirmed Wingate's discovery of an "unusual and possibly artificial structure" on the mysterious far side of the moon as shown in the 25 year old NASA Apollo 16 orbital photograph, AS16/10075825.



Dr. Fiebag, highly-respected, is the author of two recent books: "Mars - Planet Des Lebens", Econ-Publisher, Düsseldorf 1996; and "Mission Pathfinder", (Econ Publisher, Düsseldorf 1997).



Below is the original NASA Apollo 16 photograph which we will now examine in extraordinary detail.

Click to view attachment



Upon examination of the photograph, it was apparent that both Steve Wingate and then Dr. Fiebag's claims about the Apollo 16 photograph of the Lobachevsky Crater merited immediate closer examination. The picture was sent to graphics analyst Liz Edwards at IWonder Productions for enhancement and further analysis. Her work quickly underscored the fact that there are indeed some bizarre anomalies in the photograph, in fact there are several.



(Ms. Edwards' most recently exposed what appears to be a tiny missile in a photograph of a New York sunset at the exact time of the TWA 800 tragedy.)



Ms. Edwards made it clear that her multi-stage "enhancement process takes the image to its most critical viewing size without distorting the objects in question." Below, is her first enhancement of the NASA Apollo 16 photograph...

Click to view attachment

This first enhancement (above) is remarkable in itself in that there are apparently four clearly strange and unusual 'objects' or anomalies in the Lobachevsky Crater.

Item "A" demonstrates a strange white rectangular shape along the ridge of the crater rim and includes an unusual shadow below and to its right.

Item "B" appears to be a spectacular 'spire' soaring perhaps hundreds of meters straight up from the lunar surface and standing next to what appears to be a rectangular shadowed hole or depression running from its base out to the right.

Item "C" smaller but odd, sits in the bottom of the small valley or ravine below the crater rim.

Item "D" is set apart from the other objects and projects an extraordinary and bright reflective surface.
Click to view attachment

Here is Ms. Edwards' close-up enhancement of three of the subject areas.

Item "A", the ridge-top on the left, draws immediate attention because of its stunning line-up of round protuberances. These appear to be an integral part of the white colored area or cap on top of the ridge. These black, holed objects are lined-up in such a way as to provoke images of large 'ventilation' or exhaust stacks as might be seen on an ocean liner or large industrial plant...only much larger. These objects seem anything but a trick of light and shadow. A spectacular formation. Evidence of volcanism? Part of a major project or operation? What is it?

Item "B" presents what appears to be a dazzling image rising straight up from the lunar surface many hundreds of feet into the void of space. Are we witnessing this tower-like object being hit by the sun's rays and appearing to be thereby illuminated....as one would expect a piece of crystal to do if struck by the sun in this fashion? Or, is the entire 'tower' simply some type of photographic anomaly? If real, it is a stunning artifact...a crystal lunar obelisk? A construct of ET technology somehow linked to the bizarre ridge-top 'vent' pipes above on the crater rim? A part of a mining or excavation operation directly related to the dark, shadowed surface depression next to it?

Item "C", at the bottom of the ravine below the ridge, smaller, but seemingly also rising up out of the lunar soil to pose mute questions that we can only ponder.





Maximum Object Enhancement

Click to view attachment


Item "A". Again, this is an absolutely stunning display of?

A long series of ridge-top holes or openings or vents?

What are they?

Evidence of ancient volcanism?

The results of some type of post asteroid impact heat release?

Are they intelligently devised and part of an operational base and installation?

Funnels to carry some gaseous emission out from deep below?

Almost like Lunar 'coral'. What do you think?

Click to view attachment

Item "B" presents itself as major enigma. Think about it...

Click to view attachment

Item "C". Smaller 'spire' like item.


By the way Dr. Fiebag has not openly described his discoveries as necessarily representing an extraterrestrial artifact on the lunar surface but makes it clear that he cannot rule that possibility out.

Click to view attachment

Item "D" is very much its own enigma. Sitting well away from the other primary anomalies, this small item puts out a distinct shadow and shape and has further been enhanced by Ms. Edwards as displayed in the small inset in the lower right corner of the picture. Again, what do you think??



Lobachevsky 'Excavation' or 'Shadow'
Recently Imaged By Clementine

Click to view attachment

Courtesy NASA and Steve Wingate

linked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-image


Where is the 'tower' next to the 'excavation' in the recent Clementine photographs of Lobachevsky?


Was it simply a defect in the original Apollo 16 photograph? Hardly likely.

Then where did it go?

Was it removed when it's task was completed?

Analysis of the 'excavation' anomaly area suggests the shape of the crater appears to have changed noticeably from the time of the Apollo picture more than 20 years earlier.


Could this apparently different lunar terrain texture have resulted from a major excavation and/or mining operation which entered into the side of the crater rim? Or, is this dark area all just a 'lava flow' as NASA states?


Here is a nice conspiracy video as well...http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9075306542842977658&hl=en-GB
dcman
QUOTE(GirlInBlack @ Sep 26 2007, 04:18 AM) *
Here is a more in depth look at moon anomalies. These are all NASA photos though, so who knows if they have been tampered with.

American researcher Steve Wingate was the first person to bring world attention to the anomaly in the far side Lobachevsky Crater by posting the old Apollo 16 photograph and several new views from the recent Clementine mapping mission to the Lunascan Mailing List. Even more recently, eminent German geologist and science writer Dr. Johannes Fiebag confirmed Wingate's discovery of an "unusual and possibly artificial structure" on the mysterious far side of the moon as shown in the 25 year old NASA Apollo 16 orbital photograph, AS16/10075825.



Dr. Fiebag, highly-respected, is the author of two recent books: "Mars - Planet Des Lebens", Econ-Publisher, Düsseldorf 1996; and "Mission Pathfinder", (Econ Publisher, Düsseldorf 1997).



Below is the original NASA Apollo 16 photograph which we will now examine in extraordinary detail.

Click to view attachment



Upon examination of the photograph, it was apparent that both Steve Wingate and then Dr. Fiebag's claims about the Apollo 16 photograph of the Lobachevsky Crater merited immediate closer examination. The picture was sent to graphics analyst Liz Edwards at IWonder Productions for enhancement and further analysis. Her work quickly underscored the fact that there are indeed some bizarre anomalies in the photograph, in fact there are several.



(Ms. Edwards' most recently exposed what appears to be a tiny missile in a photograph of a New York sunset at the exact time of the TWA 800 tragedy.)



Ms. Edwards made it clear that her multi-stage "enhancement process takes the image to its most critical viewing size without distorting the objects in question." Below, is her first enhancement of the NASA Apollo 16 photograph...

Click to view attachment

This first enhancement (above) is remarkable in itself in that there are apparently four clearly strange and unusual 'objects' or anomalies in the Lobachevsky Crater.

Item "A" demonstrates a strange white rectangular shape along the ridge of the crater rim and includes an unusual shadow below and to its right.

Item "B" appears to be a spectacular 'spire' soaring perhaps hundreds of meters straight up from the lunar surface and standing next to what appears to be a rectangular shadowed hole or depression running from its base out to the right.

Item "C" smaller but odd, sits in the bottom of the small valley or ravine below the crater rim.

Item "D" is set apart from the other objects and projects an extraordinary and bright reflective surface.
Click to view attachment

Here is Ms. Edwards' close-up enhancement of three of the subject areas.

Item "A", the ridge-top on the left, draws immediate attention because of its stunning line-up of round protuberances. These appear to be an integral part of the white colored area or cap on top of the ridge. These black, holed objects are lined-up in such a way as to provoke images of large 'ventilation' or exhaust stacks as might be seen on an ocean liner or large industrial plant...only much larger. These objects seem anything but a trick of light and shadow. A spectacular formation. Evidence of volcanism? Part of a major project or operation? What is it?

Item "B" presents what appears to be a dazzling image rising straight up from the lunar surface many hundreds of feet into the void of space. Are we witnessing this tower-like object being hit by the sun's rays and appearing to be thereby illuminated....as one would expect a piece of crystal to do if struck by the sun in this fashion? Or, is the entire 'tower' simply some type of photographic anomaly? If real, it is a stunning artifact...a crystal lunar obelisk? A construct of ET technology somehow linked to the bizarre ridge-top 'vent' pipes above on the crater rim? A part of a mining or excavation operation directly related to the dark, shadowed surface depression next to it?

Item "C", at the bottom of the ravine below the ridge, smaller, but seemingly also rising up out of the lunar soil to pose mute questions that we can only ponder.





Maximum Object Enhancement

Click to view attachment


Item "A". Again, this is an absolutely stunning display of?

A long series of ridge-top holes or openings or vents?

What are they?

Evidence of ancient volcanism?

The results of some type of post asteroid impact heat release?

Are they intelligently devised and part of an operational base and installation?

Funnels to carry some gaseous emission out from deep below?

Almost like Lunar 'coral'. What do you think?

Click to view attachment

Item "B" presents itself as major enigma. Think about it...

Click to view attachment

Item "C". Smaller 'spire' like item.


By the way Dr. Fiebag has not openly described his discoveries as necessarily representing an extraterrestrial artifact on the lunar surface but makes it clear that he cannot rule that possibility out.

Click to view attachment

Item "D" is very much its own enigma. Sitting well away from the other primary anomalies, this small item puts out a distinct shadow and shape and has further been enhanced by Ms. Edwards as displayed in the small inset in the lower right corner of the picture. Again, what do you think??



Lobachevsky 'Excavation' or 'Shadow'
Recently Imaged By Clementine

Click to view attachment

Courtesy NASA and Steve Wingate

linked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-image


Where is the 'tower' next to the 'excavation' in the recent Clementine photographs of Lobachevsky?


Was it simply a defect in the original Apollo 16 photograph? Hardly likely.

Then where did it go?

Was it removed when it's task was completed?

Analysis of the 'excavation' anomaly area suggests the shape of the crater appears to have changed noticeably from the time of the Apollo picture more than 20 years earlier.


Could this apparently different lunar terrain texture have resulted from a major excavation and/or mining operation which entered into the side of the crater rim? Or, is this dark area all just a 'lava flow' as NASA states?


Here is a nice conspiracy video as well...http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9075306542842977658&hl=en-GB


I guess there are no sceptics about this.
Emma_Acid_88
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 26 2007, 03:36 PM) *
I guess there are no sceptics about this.


Don't be so sure. Show me something that isn't digital compression and it'll provoke a bit more discussion. All you have there are digital anomalies. You're seeing things because you want to.
dcman
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Sep 26 2007, 02:45 PM) *
Don't be so sure. Show me something that isn't digital compression and it'll provoke a bit more discussion. All you have there are digital anomalies. You're seeing things because you want to.



Take a closer look at the pictures Emma, especially the one with some sort of spike/tower in the crater...it is a very high resolution picture.
Pericynthion
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 26 2007, 09:48 AM) *
Take a closer look at the pictures Emma, especially the one with some sort of spike/tower in the crater...it is a very high resolution picture.

dcman,

I originally responded to your post of this picture over in the "Astronauts talk about UFOs" thread. Since this is a more appropriate thread for this discussion, I'll continue my responses here. Here's my initial post from the other thread:
QUOTE(Pericynthion @ Sep 26 2007, 03:28 PM) *
It's just a fiber on the scanner or a mark on the scanned print/transparency. It doesn't cast a shadow and it doesn't show up on other versions of the same image or other images of the same crater. Here's a very high-resolution raw scan of the same photo which I requested from NASA today. This link may not stay active for too many days: AS16-118-18957 High Resolution Scan

Here's another high resolution image of the same area from the Apollo 16 mapping camera (Warning to dial-up users -- this links to a 3MB file): AS16-M-0728

Neither of these images show any sign of the mystery "object" because it's not really there.

To which you replied:
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 26 2007, 04:18 PM) *
The scans you are posting are highly out of focus and blurred. Is it possible that an antenna may have fallen off and landed in the crater?

No, the images are not out of focus. Here's a cropped version of the full-size photo from Keith Laney's site showing the area immediately around the mystery "object."
linked-image

And here is the same area of the high-resolution scan of AS16-118-18957 from the NASA Gateway site, shown at full size. I've adjusted brightness levels, but have not otherwise altered the image:
linked-image

It seems pretty clear to me that the high-res scan shows much more actual image detail than the version from Keith Laney's site. The "object" should be clearly visible, but there's absolutely no sign of it. It's just a flaw in the scan.

In answer to your second question, no it's not possible that this is an antenna from the spacecraft that fell off and landed in the crater. If it were a real object, it would show up in all versions of the photo. Also, if it were real it would be enormous. The AS16-118-18957 photo was taken from the Apollo 16 command/service module in orbit over the far side of the moon. It shows a huge area of the lunar surface. For reference, here's a cropped portion of AS16-M-1728 to which I've added a few notes.

linked-image


The large crater in the center of the image is Kohlschutter. It's about 53 km (33 miles) in diameter. I've outlined in green the approximate area seen in the cropped portions of AS16-118-18957 which I've shown above. The green arrow shows the approximate viewing direction. By my rough calculations, the "object" would be pretty close to a mile long assuming it was on the surface and roughly parallel to the viewing plane.

dcman
QUOTE(Pericynthion @ Sep 27 2007, 01:35 AM) *
dcman,

I originally responded to your post of this picture over in the "Astronauts talk about UFOs" thread. Since this is a more appropriate thread for this discussion, I'll continue my responses here. Here's my initial post from the other thread:

To which you replied:

No, the images are not out of focus. Here's a cropped version of the full-size photo from Keith Laney's site showing the area immediately around the mystery "object."
linked-image

And here is the same area of the high-resolution scan of AS16-118-18957 from the NASA Gateway site, shown at full size. I've adjusted brightness levels, but have not otherwise altered the image:
linked-image

It seems pretty clear to me that the high-res scan shows much more actual image detail than the version from Keith Laney's site. The "object" should be clearly visible, but there's absolutely no sign of it. It's just a flaw in the scan.

In answer to your second question, no it's not possible that this is an antenna from the spacecraft that fell off and landed in the crater. If it were a real object, it would show up in all versions of the photo. Also, if it were real it would be enormous. The AS16-118-18957 photo was taken from the Apollo 16 command/service module in orbit over the far side of the moon. It shows a huge area of the lunar surface. For reference, here's a cropped portion of AS16-M-1728 to which I've added a few notes.

linked-image


The large crater in the center of the image is Kohlschutter. It's about 53 km (33 miles) in diameter. I've outlined in green the approximate area seen in the cropped portions of AS16-118-18957 which I've shown above. The green arrow shows the approximate viewing direction. By my rough calculations, the "object" would be pretty close to a mile long assuming it was on the surface and roughly parallel to the viewing plane.


Curious that it would be in one scan and not the other...maybe a trammel point that was not compensated for in the processing of the scan.
Emma_Acid_88
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 27 2007, 03:05 AM) *
Curious that it would be in one scan and not the other...maybe a trammel point that was not compensated for in the processing of the scan.


Case rested.
Moon*Ghost
I do not see a "distinct shadow" in item D
thevocalist
Hey great thread. I started one a while back called Mars and Moon Anomilies. It went pretty ggod, have some decent images on it,.. and of course. A few @ssholes that that had nothing better to do then bash the thread and all in it. These are new to me. There is so much more on the moon then we may never know. Same with Mars.
analog_warrior
As for the first image, if someone is trying to hide it then I'm wondering why they would leave so much exsposed. I mean, what's hidden must be something to blow the mind.

dcman
QUOTE(analog_warrior @ Oct 1 2007, 04:45 AM) *
As for the first image, if someone is trying to hide it then I'm wondering why they would leave so much exsposed. I mean, what's hidden must be something to blow the mind.



Can anyone identify these objects in these pics? :




http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/AS16-107-17429HR.jpg
linked-image



http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/AS16-107-17428HR.jpg
linked-image
dcman
QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 1 2007, 05:30 AM) *



One more angle:

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a16/AS16-107-17430HR.jpg
linked-image
Pericynthion
QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 1 2007, 12:30 AM) *

Sure. It's just lens flare from pointing the camera near the sun. Those photos are from Apollo 16. Here's another shot from the same mission which shows the both the sun and the resulting flare artifacts:

AS16-109-17856
linked-image


Edited to add missing word
dcman
QUOTE(Pericynthion @ Oct 1 2007, 06:00 AM) *
Sure. It's just lens flare from pointing the camera near the sun. Those photos are from Apollo 16. Here's another shot from the same mission which shows the both the sun and the resulting flare artifacts:

AS16-109-17856
linked-image


Edited to add missing word



Only the sun isn't in those other pics and not on this one either:
linked-image

linked-image

Could it be something else?
Pericynthion
QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 1 2007, 01:09 AM) *
Only the sun isn't in those other pics and not on this one either:
linked-image

linked-image

Could it be something else?

Nope. That's definitely lens flare. The sun doesn't need to be in-frame to cause flare. I did a really quick search at Flickr.com and found this great example:

linked-image
Photo by ktpupp at Flickr.com. Used under provisions of the Creative Commons license.

The sun is clearly not in the frame, but it's still causing the same sorts of streaks and spots that are visible in the Apollo photos. For a good tutorial on lens flare, take a look here.
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(GirlInBlack @ Sep 26 2007, 12:18 AM) *
Here is a more in depth look at moon anomalies. These are all NASA photos though, so who knows if they have been tampered with.

SkepticalEd: "Nobody knows if NASA really tampers with lunar photos (Mars is another topic) because all that has happened so far is that so and so said that NASA airbrushes lunar photos to remove UFOs, artifacts, etc., but NO ONE has ever shown a before and after photo proving the claims. Until this is done, accusing NASA of impropriety is one-sided and without evidence."

American researcher Steve Wingate was the first person to bring world attention to the anomaly in the far side Lobachevsky Crater by posting the old Apollo 16 photograph and several new views from the recent Clementine mapping mission to the Lunascan Mailing List. Even more recently, eminent German geologist and science writer Dr. Johannes Fiebag confirmed Wingate's discovery of an "unusual and possibly artificial structure" on the mysterious far side of the moon as shown in the 25 year old NASA Apollo 16 orbital photograph, AS16/10075825.

SkepticalEd: "I was involved in this ridiculous brouhaha back in the late '90s. Steve Wingate did NOT bring world attention to this NATURAL feature. It wasn't hailed by the world as very few were aware of it. It is not an anomaly and Wingate should be whipped into submission for b.s. those that became aware of it, such as Lunascan Project, and claiming it was something other than a natural feature. Dr Fiebag made a major error when he confirmed and promoted this stupidity. Jeff Rense had an article on his website when it was called SIGHTINGS titled "Astonishing Intelligent Artifacts (?) Found On Mysterious Far Side Of The Moon." If you search for it you won't find it 'cause I wrote to Rense and told him the truth about this b.s. "anomaly" and he removed the article. The article also included a debunking by another person who came to the same conclusions as I did. I also wrote Dr Fiebag and lambasted him for using his good name to endorse b.s. He replied, and I still have his email archived on videotape. He said to me, in part: "However, besides this I already made clear in different mailing lists and personal messages that I VERY LIKELY WAS WRONG! The white straight structure is an artifact - but an human one made here on Earth." What does he mean by '...an human one made here on Earth.'? What I told him and Rense and everyone who put up a page on their website with Rense's article: that the 'anomaly' was nothing more than Liz Edwards' computer enhancement of a small photograph and got pixelated beyond use. What you see on her enhancement is nothing but pixels on steroids. I'm simplifying this but eventually I was responsible for the removal from websites. The only person I had a problem with was Ms Edwards herself who couldn't see beyond her stupidity. Crater Lobachevsky has a small crater on one of its walls. The crater is named Guyot. It has edges with high albedo and some lava flow. When you look at a high resolution photo you won't see any 'anomaly' but a crater with high reflection called albedo. Edwards created the 'anomaly', not aliens. Anything below this rebuttal on this post is worthless and has no merit as it is not based on real, hard data but on the gullibility of people who do not do enough research but accept claims as if blind."


Dr. Fiebag, highly-respected, is the author of two recent books: "Mars - Planet Des Lebens", Econ-Publisher, Düsseldorf 1996; and "Mission Pathfinder", (Econ Publisher, Düsseldorf 1997).



Below is the original NASA Apollo 16 photograph which we will now examine in extraordinary detail.

Click to view attachment
Upon examination of the photograph, it was apparent that both Steve Wingate and then Dr. Fiebag's claims about the Apollo 16 photograph of the Lobachevsky Crater merited immediate closer examination. The picture was sent to graphics analyst Liz Edwards at IWonder Productions for enhancement and further analysis. Her work quickly underscored the fact that there are indeed some bizarre anomalies in the photograph, in fact there are several.



(Ms. Edwards' most recently exposed what appears to be a tiny missile in a photograph of a New York sunset at the exact time of the TWA 800 tragedy.)



Ms. Edwards made it clear that her multi-stage "enhancement process takes the image to its most critical viewing size without distorting the objects in question." Below, is her first enhancement of the NASA Apollo 16 photograph...

Click to view attachment

This first enhancement (above) is remarkable in itself in that there are apparently four clearly strange and unusual 'objects' or anomalies in the Lobachevsky Crater.

Item "A" demonstrates a strange white rectangular shape along the ridge of the crater rim and includes an unusual shadow below and to its right.

Item "B" appears to be a spectacular 'spire' soaring perhaps hundreds of meters straight up from the lunar surface and standing next to what appears to be a rectangular shadowed hole or depression running from its base out to the right.

Item "C" smaller but odd, sits in the bottom of the small valley or ravine below the crater rim.

Item "D" is set apart from the other objects and projects an extraordinary and bright reflective surface.
Click to view attachment

Here is Ms. Edwards' close-up enhancement of three of the subject areas.

Item "A", the ridge-top on the left, draws immediate attention because of its stunning line-up of round protuberances. These appear to be an integral part of the white colored area or cap on top of the ridge. These black, holed objects are lined-up in such a way as to provoke images of large 'ventilation' or exhaust stacks as might be seen on an ocean liner or large industrial plant...only much larger. These objects seem anything but a trick of light and shadow. A spectacular formation. Evidence of volcanism? Part of a major project or operation? What is it?

Item "B" presents what appears to be a dazzling image rising straight up from the lunar surface many hundreds of feet into the void of space. Are we witnessing this tower-like object being hit by the sun's rays and appearing to be thereby illuminated....as one would expect a piece of crystal to do if struck by the sun in this fashion? Or, is the entire 'tower' simply some type of photographic anomaly? If real, it is a stunning artifact...a crystal lunar obelisk? A construct of ET technology somehow linked to the bizarre ridge-top 'vent' pipes above on the crater rim? A part of a mining or excavation operation directly related to the dark, shadowed surface depression next to it?

Item "C", at the bottom of the ravine below the ridge, smaller, but seemingly also rising up out of the lunar soil to pose mute questions that we can only ponder.





Maximum Object Enhancement

Click to view attachment
Item "A". Again, this is an absolutely stunning display of?

A long series of ridge-top holes or openings or vents?

What are they?

Evidence of ancient volcanism?

The results of some type of post asteroid impact heat release?

Are they intelligently devised and part of an operational base and installation?

Funnels to carry some gaseous emission out from deep below?

Almost like Lunar 'coral'. What do you think?

Click to view attachment

Item "B" presents itself as major enigma. Think about it...

Click to view attachment

Item "C". Smaller 'spire' like item.


By the way Dr. Fiebag has not openly described his discoveries as necessarily representing an extraterrestrial artifact on the lunar surface but makes it clear that he cannot rule that possibility out.

Click to view attachment

Item "D" is very much its own enigma. Sitting well away from the other primary anomalies, this small item puts out a distinct shadow and shape and has further been enhanced by Ms. Edwards as displayed in the small inset in the lower right corner of the picture. Again, what do you think??



Lobachevsky 'Excavation' or 'Shadow'
Recently Imaged By Clementine

Click to view attachment

Courtesy NASA and Steve Wingate

linked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-imagelinked-image


Where is the 'tower' next to the 'excavation' in the recent Clementine photographs of Lobachevsky?
Was it simply a defect in the original Apollo 16 photograph? Hardly likely.

Then where did it go?

Was it removed when it's task was completed?

Analysis of the 'excavation' anomaly area suggests the shape of the crater appears to have changed noticeably from the time of the Apollo picture more than 20 years earlier.
Could this apparently different lunar terrain texture have resulted from a major excavation and/or mining operation which entered into the side of the crater rim? Or, is this dark area all just a 'lava flow' as NASA states?
Here is a nice conspiracy video as well...http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9075306542842977658&hl=en-GB

SkepticalEd
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 26 2007, 10:36 AM) *
I guess there are no sceptics about this.

Read my short rebuttal at the original post.
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Sep 26 2007, 10:45 AM) *
Don't be so sure. Show me something that isn't digital compression and it'll provoke a bit more discussion. All you have there are digital anomalies. You're seeing things because you want to.

Good for you Emma_Acid_88! You have a good head on your shoulders but it's the gray matter between your ears that make you shine! You go girl!
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(dcman @ Sep 26 2007, 10:48 AM) *
Take a closer look at the pictures Emma, especially the one with some sort of spike/tower in the crater...it is a very high resolution picture.

No, it's NOT high resolution. A high resolution photo as found in my NASA SP-362, "APOLLO OVER THE MOON: A VIEW FROM ORBIT" shows natural features. Nobody seems to understand that the brightness is the result of high albedo. You enhance this low resolution photo and you'll wind up with what Liz Edwards CREATED, an "anomaly" that exists only in her computer. You know the old saying, "Garbage in, garbage out." Pixels in, distortion out!
JimOberg
SkepticalEd: "Nobody knows if NASA really tampers with lunar photos (Mars is another topic) because all that has happened so far is that so and so said that NASA airbrushes lunar photos to remove UFOs, artifacts, etc.,.."

Can Ed maybe tell us WHO exactly has said such and such (re airbrushing) so we can check up on the accuracy of his memory?

dcman
QUOTE(SkepticalEd @ Oct 15 2007, 04:37 AM) *
No, it's NOT high resolution. A high resolution photo as found in my NASA SP-362, "APOLLO OVER THE MOON: A VIEW FROM ORBIT" shows natural features. Nobody seems to understand that the brightness is the result of high albedo. You enhance this low resolution photo and you'll wind up with what Liz Edwards CREATED, an "anomaly" that exists only in her computer. You know the old saying, "Garbage in, garbage out." Pixels in, distortion out!



This lunar picture from Apollo 16 has me interested.

http://www.lunarsightings.com/reference/AS16-116-18603HR_mod.jpg
linked-image

It's the shape of those rocks...square edges like they were quarried.

Any help with this pic would be appreciated. Also there appears to be a cylindrical object embeded in the surface.
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(JimOberg @ Oct 15 2007, 02:17 AM) *
SkepticalEd: "Nobody knows if NASA really tampers with lunar photos (Mars is another topic) because all that has happened so far is that so and so said that NASA airbrushes lunar photos to remove UFOs, artifacts, etc.,.."

Can Ed maybe tell us WHO exactly has said such and such (re airbrushing) so we can check up on the accuracy of his memory?

I responded to GirlInBlack who implied: "Sep 26 2007, 12:18 AM Post #10 Here is a more in depth look at moon anomalies. These are all NASA photos though, so who knows if they have been tampered with."

But go google.com and enter in the search box: nasa airbrushes photos - and you'll get 623,000 English pages to possibly answer your question(s). Jim, what I did at google is called "simple research"!

Jim, you short-quoted me by not including my full reply which was challenging such claims and giving NASA an off-hand support. Treat me better.
Eric Raven The Skeptic
QUOTE(thevocalist @ Sep 30 2007, 07:47 PM) *
Hey great thread. I started one a while back called Mars and Moon Anomilies. It went pretty ggod, have some decent images on it,.. and of course. A few @ssholes that that had nothing better to do then bash the thread and all in it. These are new to me. There is so much more on the moon then we may never know. Same with Mars.

No bashing. Just pointed out the weakness of these anomilies. A bit defensive.
recon_soldier
The only pictures of any real interest here are the ones posted by Girlinblack on the first page.

Mainly due to the shadow that is being cast by the possibly natural object.

But naturally, Those photo's have come and gone on these forums time and time again.
dcman
QUOTE(recon_soldier @ Oct 16 2007, 01:44 AM) *
The only pictures of any real interest here are the ones posted by Girlinblack on the first page.

Mainly due to the shadow that is being cast by the possibly natural object.

But naturally, Those photo's have come and gone on these forums time and time again.



hmmmm...I predict that within 20 years Virgin Galactic will offer tickets to the moon with deluxe accomodations.
clem
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Sep 27 2007, 08:36 AM) *
Case rested.

i dont see how offering a suggestion (maybe it's a..) gives you proof- let alone rest any case.
you are just as quick to say something isn't proof as we believers are to say something is. tongue.gif
i guess its good we can keep each other in check.
but.. i will not 100% believe any picture nasa 'allows' us to see. they are coming from the point o' view that 'knowledge' of any of this is bad for humanity.( long story- ive posted about it before- bout technology and money and power etc.. )and i doubt they would show us anything that goes against this. they 'released' project blue book but thats 90% blacked out. (sure is a lot of classified swamp gas, weather balloons , and ball ligtning dont you think?)
hiding it means there's something worth hiding- why do skptics say no so fast?
there's no way im gonna believe our lil flash in the pan existance is the end all be all in this universe.sooooooo many stars - with xthat number of planets. thats a lot of potential for life - even if someone told me 90 % of the stars had no potential for planets/life = 10% of infinite is still infinite. how many BILLIONS and BILLIONS and BILLIONS of years has it been here?. thats a lotof time for teh evolution. think of it- WE went from horses and candles to mini portable video phone/computers/with a space tracking system and genetically engineering/cloning living things. in what 100- 200 years?. our computers do more right now turned off than the fastest computer available only 60ish years ago . imagine if we continue at this rate o say a thousand more years.
im pretty sure there's been enough time for intelligence go a litte farther and manipulate the fabric of space/time.
so many people are afraid of ET life/vistors- all the powers that be have to do is say on tv that we've been attacked by alien life ( probably dont even need footage ), and people would freak. - control is theirs. - (but thats a sub-subject- eventhough they are interrelated).
but this is all just my opinion- take from it what u wish. alien.gif

clem
Atheist God
You can get telescopes that can view the surface of the moon in amazing detail. I know because i paid the big bucks for one....

This being said I have never seen anything on the moon however I have seen a few UFOs although they could have been any number of explainable objects as well.

To be honest here whether some of you imaginative people want to believe it or not THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! Believe it or not it is the truth, if there was amateur astronomers would be talking about it all the time.
dcman
QUOTE(AtheistGod @ Oct 16 2007, 02:57 AM) *
You can get telescopes that can view the surface of the moon in amazing detail. I know because i paid the big bucks for one....

This being said I have never seen anything on the moon however I have seen a few UFOs although they could have been any number of explainable objects as well.

To be honest here whether some of you imaginative people want to believe it or not THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! Believe it or not it is the truth, if there was amateur astronomers would be talking about it all the time.



Go back to the previous page and explain the square rocks and cylinder.
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(AtheistGod @ Oct 15 2007, 10:57 PM) *
You can get telescopes that can view the surface of the moon in amazing detail. I know because i paid the big bucks for one....

This being said I have never seen anything on the moon however I have seen a few UFOs although they could have been any number of explainable objects as well.

To be honest here whether some of you imaginative people want to believe it or not THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! Believe it or not it is the truth, if there was amateur astronomers would be talking about it all the time.

Where were you with your telescope in the early 1980s when I was taking on two guys, Felix Bach and Jack Swaney, who were writing letters to the editor of FATE magazine, including fanciful and inaccurate sketches of lunar landscapes showing what they considered alien artifacts and claiming they were doing with 60mm-type amateur, nay child's, telescopes? However, I am grateful to them for helping me to hone my debunking skills in proving them wrong with my Lunar Orbriter Photographic Atlas Of The Moon and other NASA publications. I always chided them saying that if what they saw was true with their minimalist telescopes, then REAL astronomers or amateur astronomers such as yourself (I'm assuming) should be up in arms. You ought to check out Hoagland's claims, supported by Michael (can I call you Mike) Bara, and others who have websites dedicated to such anomalies/structures/artifacts as most if not all of their locations are on the side facing Earth. Surely, you should be able to see Hoagland's "castle" and remants of "cities," etc.

However, don't downplay your seeing UFOs for there are many examples of such found on videos on the web. NASA has footage of UFOs flitting over the lunar surface and some of these videos make the light of day. There are people who have videotaped not just UFOs near and above the Moon but other strange objects.

Of course, it stands to reason that if UFOs are seen over and around the Moon, then there must be a base(s) somewhere on the Moon. I thought I found an entrance on a NASA photo. But that's another story. Keep looking to the sky!
SkepticalEd
QUOTE(AtheistGod @ Oct 16 2007, 02:57 AM)
You can get telescopes that can view the surface of the moon in amazing detail. I know because i paid the big bucks for one....

This being said I have never seen anything on the moon however I have seen a few UFOs although they could have been any number of explainable objects as well.

To be honest here whether some of you imaginative people want to believe it or not THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! Believe it or not it is the truth, if there was amateur astronomers would be talking about it all the time.
[/quote]

QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 15 2007, 11:26 PM) *
Go back to the previous page and explain the square rocks and cylinder.

AtheistGod said that THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! while looking through a telescope! He is responding to claims or demands by others that alien structures/anomalies are/should be visible from earthbound telescopes.

As to the square rocks and "cylinder," that is the appearance that as seen in the photo. Perhaps a sharper photo will have additional detail that can further identify what is seen. There is no doubt that given our minds want to make sense of chaos. But why shouldn't there be square/rectangular rocks on the moon? The geology process might not be identical to earth's but we don't know what went on during the forming of the orb. The cylinder could be, again, due to insufficient detail on the page. We've discussed pareidolia in these forums and that is what is happening with that photo. This is similar to the underwater structures of Yonaguni. There the argument is whether the formations are natural or manmade. They certainly look artificial. But above the water line you can see nature forming similar formations.

Before we can cry alien-made, we need better evidence. Think of this: the photo you mention was obviously taken by an astronaut since it's a surface photo. Don't you think that any astronaut worth his salt missed the opportunity to approach the area he just photographed to look around a "debris field" to determine why the rocks look so "familiar"? The "baseball" rock is interesting. The "tossed doll" rock is interesting. The square rock has naturalness written all over it.

It's because of situations such as found on your photo that one must demand irrefutable evidence before one can come to any conclusion. Interesting? No doubt? Definite conclusion? Not on what one sees.
r2d2
QUOTE(ZeroGhost @ Sep 25 2007, 09:28 PM) *
............. There where close to 200 amateurs and their telescopes on this mountain, everyone was looking at the sky, trying each other's scopes out and it was a clear night.

We saw a structured weird green craft fly overhead about 200 to 500 feet ................................. I shouted "look!" ............................. and no one, I MEAN NO ONE, said a peep. Like they where hoping it did not happen.


Or the alternate explanation is that you were hallucinating.... and everyone thought you were a raving nutcase blink.gif

just throwing that out there, not a personal attack, just a legitimate attempt at explaining what happened.
Emma_Acid_88
QUOTE(thevocalist @ Oct 1 2007, 01:47 AM) *
A few @ssholes


And the same to you sweetheart. If your "findings" don't stand up to scrutiny, that ain't my fault.

QUOTE(SkepticalEd @ Oct 15 2007, 05:34 AM) *
You have a good head on your shoulders but it's the gray matter between your ears that make you shine! You go girl!


Aw shucks. blush.gif

QUOTE(clem @ Oct 16 2007, 03:15 AM) *
you are just as quick to say something isn't proof as we believers are to say something is. tongue.gif


Well then it comes down to probability. Is that an intelligently made artifact from a long-dead civilisation or a rock? The statistics are on that its a rock. I've said this before and I'll say it again: just because something is a theory it does not make it as equally valid as other theories.

My theory is that it is a rock. I can't prove it as I don't have the means, but that is my theory, backed by a wealth of history, research and science. Your theory has no backing to it whatsoever, so the "it could be this, it could be that" attitude doesn't wash. I'd go as far to say that its pointless.

QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 15 2007, 02:52 PM) *
This lunar picture from Apollo 16 has me interested.

http://www.lunarsightings.com/reference/AS16-116-18603HR_mod.jpg
linked-image

It's the shape of those rocks...square edges like they were quarried.


Sorry, this is... just....

*shakes head and walks away before her mouth gets the better of her*
dcman
QUOTE(SkepticalEd @ Oct 16 2007, 04:53 AM) *
QUOTE(AtheistGod @ Oct 16 2007, 02:57 AM)
You can get telescopes that can view the surface of the moon in amazing detail. I know because i paid the big bucks for one....

This being said I have never seen anything on the moon however I have seen a few UFOs although they could have been any number of explainable objects as well.

To be honest here whether some of you imaginative people want to believe it or not THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! Believe it or not it is the truth, if there was amateur astronomers would be talking about it all the time.



AtheistGod said that THERE ARE NO VISIBLE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES ON THE MOON!!!!!! while looking through a telescope! He is responding to claims or demands by others that alien structures/anomalies are/should be visible from earthbound telescopes.

As to the square rocks and "cylinder," that is the appearance that as seen in the photo. Perhaps a sharper photo will have additional detail that can further identify what is seen. There is no doubt that given our minds want to make sense of chaos. But why shouldn't there be square/rectangular rocks on the moon? The geology process might not be identical to earth's but we don't know what went on during the forming of the orb. The cylinder could be, again, due to insufficient detail on the page. We've discussed pareidolia in these forums and that is what is happening with that photo. This is similar to the underwater structures of Yonaguni. There the argument is whether the formations are natural or manmade. They certainly look artificial. But above the water line you can see nature forming similar formations.

Before we can cry alien-made, we need better evidence. Think of this: the photo you mention was obviously taken by an astronaut since it's a surface photo. Don't you think that any astronaut worth his salt missed the opportunity to approach the area he just photographed to look around a "debris field" to determine why the rocks look so "familiar"? The "baseball" rock is interesting. The "tossed doll" rock is interesting. The square rock has naturalness written all over it.

It's because of situations such as found on your photo that one must demand irrefutable evidence before one can come to any conclusion. Interesting? No doubt? Definite conclusion? Not on what one sees.


The square/rectrangular rocks stand out from its surroundings Ed...probably why the astronaut took the picture. What those rocks look like to me, I have been in the construction industry for the better part of 30 years and am an engineer, is what is left over after demolition of a structural columns. I have no idea what that orb is, or the cylinder. Perhaps in returning to the moon we go back and do an indepth study of some of the things seen in that photograph. Could there have been a previous civilization on Earth or Mars that could have constructed structures on the moon? ...no evidence of this yet, but that may change in time.
Emma_Acid_88
Guys.... sorry, I'm going to have to do a drastic and unheard of u-turn.

There are anomalies on the moon! Cripes!

linked-image
dcman
People who have a tendency to scoff, usually do so when they feel threatened or intimidated...if you cannot respond in a civil manner, then don't respond. Please stop your flamebaiting.
Dark entity
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Oct 16 2007, 03:28 PM) *
Guys.... sorry, I'm going to have to do a drastic and unheard of u-turn.

There are anomalies on the moon! Cripes!

linked-image



Ahaha! Thats classic grin2.gif
But how do we explain that thing that looks like diarrhea o.0
Emma_Acid_88
QUOTE(dcman @ Oct 16 2007, 03:37 PM) *
People who have a tendency to scoff, usually do so when they feel threatened or intimidated...if you cannot respond in a civil manner, the don't respond. Please stop your flamebaiting.


One could see it as flamebaiting, I see it as making a valid point. I'm never here to insult anyone, but I want to make people look at the things they're saying from a different angle.
Saru
QUOTE(dcman)
People who have a tendency to scoff, usually do so when they feel threatened or intimidated...if you cannot respond in a civil manner, then don't respond. Please stop your flamebaiting.

I think the point being made here is to demonstrate how easily meaningful shapes can be picked out of random patterns, there are similar examples all over the forum in many different areas.

I don't believe this constitutes "flamebaiting", however for the sake of avoiding any suggestions of mockery lets keep the contributions as serious as possible from now on.

Thanks. thumbsup.gif
r2d2
QUOTE(Dark entity @ Oct 16 2007, 03:41 PM) *
Ahaha! Thats classic grin2.gif
But how do we explain that thing that looks like diarrhea o.0


Perhaps an alien decided to sample our local cuisine and brought a donar kebab. The first refreshment stop between earth and planet zod, would be the moon right ?
clem
QUOTE(Emma_Acid_88 @ Oct 16 2007, 02:08 PM) *
And the same to you sweetheart. If your "findings" don't stand up to scrutiny, that ain't my fault.
Aw shucks. blush.gif
Well then it comes down to probability. Is that an intelligently made artifact from a long-dead civilisation or a rock? The statistics are on that its a rock. I've said this before and I'll say it again: just because something is a theory it does not make it as equally valid as other theories.

My theory is that it is a rock. I can't prove it as I don't have the means, but that is my theory, backed by a wealth of history, research and science. Your theory has no backing to it whatsoever, so the "it could be this, it could be that" attitude doesn't wash. I'd go as far to say that its pointless.
Sorry, this is... just....

*shakes head and walks away before her mouth gets the better of her*

a universe full of life is more evidence than saying -if you llook at a rocky planet/moon the chances are great that you'll see rocks so that means its a rock-
and history of what?. a planet full of mountains/rocks?
i cannot prove that is not a rock- but i have reports and pictures and paintings from all walks of life throughout a rich history backing me. and knowing that as humans we do NOT know everything.
o we will debate this until disclosure day- and with independant people starting to make moon probes it probably wont be too long before we know the truth.
hard to believe the collective mind of humanity is still so closed up sometimes.
oh well, it'll get there
clem alien.gif


SkepticalEd
QUOTE(clem @ Oct 16 2007, 05:27 PM) *
a universe full of life is more evidence than saying -if you llook at a rocky planet/moon the chances are great that you'll see rocks so that means its a rock-
and history of what?. a planet full of mountains/rocks?
i cannot prove that is not a rock- but i have reports and pictures and paintings from all walks of life throughout a rich history backing me. and knowing that as humans we do NOT know everything.
o we will debate this until disclosure day- and with independant people starting to make moon probes it probably wont be too long before we know the truth.
hard to believe the collective mind of humanity is still so closed up sometimes.
oh well, it'll get there
clem alien.gif

"a universe full of life"? Where is this universe? The only life we know about is us. Speculate all you want about extraterrestrial life but in the end neither you, nor anyone else on this planet has any evidence for life outside of earth.

"reports and pictures and paintings"? Sounds like you have an empty closet. Reports are rampant. Pictures are rampant. Paintings, and I assume you mean all of those medieval paintings with alleged UFOs in them, were the painters' world and we don't know why they painted seemingly anomalous objects in them. A lot of them were simply religious interpretations.

And you are right "that as humans we do NOT know everything." Sometimes, it seems, we do not know anything.
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