I'll humor you. By your estimate, God does not exist, correct? By your estimate, the Bible was written by man in the interests of man, correct? How then, by your estimate, can a nonexistent being act against humanity and inspire war, rape, etc?

I wasn't either, Empress. I graduated in 80 from public school.

I don't have any problem with this school. Faith-based schools are quite within their right to teach whatever Faith they want. A Muslim school can teach Muslim values and beliefs, a Catholic school can teach Catholic values and Beliefs. A Buddhist school can teach Buddhist values and beliefs, and a Christian school can teach Christian values and beliefs.

Every parent has the right to bring their children up in the way that they think is best, and in whatever religion they follow. A school which incorporates prayer and Bible study is not a big problem. However, if it is found out that there is emotional or spiritual abuse going on, then there would be a problem - for example, the whole "Jesus Camp" issue where kids where locked in a room and shouted at until they tearfully claim to believe. However, from reading that article, there is no indication of anything like that happening. And therefore I have no problem with it.

~ Regards, PA

[I don't have any problem with this school. Faith-based schools are quite within their right to teach whatever Faith they want. A Muslim school can teach Muslim values and beliefs, a Catholic school can teach Catholic values and Beliefs. A Buddhist school can teach Buddhist values and beliefs, and a Christian school can teach Christian values and beliefs.

Not all of them.

How can you be sure that it wasn't ALL of them? And if even SOME of the did make an intelligent, well-rationalized decision to maintain the values and beliefs they grew up with, they, along with you and those others who did walk away make a joke of your point, since that means those "poor brainwashed" children you are so concerned about are not so brainwashed after all. Sorry, but you do not strike me as being intellectually inferior or superior, just an average guy, so if an average guy can "walk away" then the brainwashing must be really bad, so stop worrying about it.

...The purpose of their parents paying thousands of dollars for their kids to go there is so they will recieve that religious schooling to retain those beliefs for the rest of their lifes. It's no different really then the warlords in Africa brainwashing children to fight for them.

It is evident that you really have no idea of why parents send their children to private Christian schools.

I wouldn't go towards rationalized as I would self deluded but that's another story.

I am an average guy for the most part. Yet, I went to public school rather then having my education be religious. The fact still remains that these schools are brainwashing children. The purpose of their parents paying thousands of dollars for their kids to go there is so they will recieve that religious schooling to retain those beliefs for the rest of their lifes. It's no different really then the warlords in Africa brainwashing children to fight for them.

To give their kids a religious education is the biggest reason.

So? According to belief it's fact.

I don't single out christianity though christianity is a big thing because of the huge population of them in the country I live in and in the media I read. This forum is also Spirituality vs Skepticism.

Who cares if I don't believe it? I can still discuss it just like how I can discuss the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Niether one is real to me. You're so mad that I critize belief and then you're mad that I do it when I don't believe. I know believers here that don't believe in evolution or such but still use evolution facts to critize the theory and I haven't (maybe you have?) see you slam on them for posting.

Childish? You get over it.

My god (ha ha!) you're like obsessed with me. If you don't like my posts, I do not care. I simply do not care. Put me on ignore. Scroll over my posts instead of reading them. Just pretend I don't exist then. You say it's me with the problem but no, it's really you with me. I'm not going to change.

But here we have it... We're all entitled to our opinions and beliefs... Even me.

Well I guess society in general, and social institutions such as schools in particular, will always try to impose those beliefs and behaviours they see as best /most positive on all members of the society. Personally I get furious at Social movements in schools; based on false realities, and imposing one set of beliefs on all.

My two pet hates are ; encouraging kids to recycle, when in fact this is a political appeasement, which in terms of energy and resource usage is actually creating a net negative effect on the environment.
Second, and newly arriving in Australian schools, is the removal of Non -healthy food from the school environment. Some schools were actually(illegally) going so far as to remove food from kids lunch boxes, and replacing it with what they determined to be healthier options. Apart from the police/nanny state implications, there is a lot of disagreement about what is really healthy for kids.

Getting back into context, schools should not be in the business of either validating, or denying, matters of personal belief, whether these are; religious. economic, environmental or dietary. A lot of modern Australian high school courses have a distinct bias against capitalism because they were written by academics who are the product of a university system which, at best, has very restricted social view points, and at worst, is terrribly out of step with the realities of the world, and society in general.

Schools should not get in the road of kids developing a diversity of honest and balanced belief systems.

Having said that, I am talking about a govt/public education system. If people choose to send kids to private schools for reasons of economic advantage or social/ religious beliefs that remains their prerogative in a democratic/free society.

To give their kids a religious education is the biggest reason.

So, now you're equating insuring your children are raised with Christian values to kidnapping children from their families, terrorizing them and then rewarding them for killing other humans? No, Kratos, you are not attacking Christianity that is so obvious, how could Devol have even considered that?

One can get religious education at church or home. There are many, many reasons parents send their kids to private Christian schools. I am a parent of two children that attend one and my list of reasons is numerous, to say the least.

uhh.. that IS the problem sir/mam, thats what every non believer HAS a problem WITH sir/mam.
Why DOES a nonexsistent being inspire so much war rape hatred against humanity.
Its not about if the "being" is real or not. Its about the people who claim it is real.

And kratos has every right to hold that stance on religion, how dare it alter any aspect of a non believers life, it has no right. Religion exsists in the believers mind, where it should stay.

Private School = success
Public School = roll-the-dice

Oh I don't know about that. BUT, here's the deal I think.

Kids who are enrolled in private religious schools have parents who are paying a huge amount of money to send their kids there. Because of that, parents tend to protect their investment quite carefully. Which means they take an active role in what the school is teaching and how well their kids are doing. There's no magic in a Private school education, but PAYING for it does tend to be a wake up call for parents. They don't want their money wasted.

Public school on the other hand is a hands off kind of deal. Your kids wake up in the morning, you send them there for 6 hours, kids come home, and when you finally arrive home from work 4 hours after that, the kidlette bats his cute little baby blues and says "yes, parental unit, I did my homework" ... a parent whose children are in a large public school has no way to find out of kidlette really did their homework or not. Not until report card time, and sometimes not even then.

It's a customer service issue sometimes. Public school teachers aren't trying to attract paying students, they have nothing invested in making sure your kid learns anything. They just do what the administration says to do. They brush off parents who want more information. They don't have to give it and most aren't even interested in giving it.

Private school teachers have to be pro-active if they want to keep their jobs. No students, no jobs. They are there not only to teach the child, but they're also responsible for being pro-active with both students and teachers to keep the almighty dollar rolling in the front door.

There's no real difference in cirriculum really... it's just the level of involvement and responsibility... the dollar is what keeps the private schools pro-active.

The major difference in teaching PC (which is getting far out of control) compared to religious "values" is that you're not telling little kids that hell is very much real to scare the living hell (ha ha!) out of them. Hell and it's terrible description is very much real to a child in the same way Santa, the Easter bunny, tooth fairy and such are very much real.

Then of course then you have the instilling of bigotry that never gets old with religion... A good slant against homosexuals and lesbians, abortion is murder and not a woman's right, telling them that the bible is factual (despite their gross lack of evidence), among other lovely items. You're right, they're not all being told to kill or that jews are awful. I can agree that the ones that are in a very select minority.

Quite frankly the bible is innappropiate to give a child. You wouldn't give a child a Jenna Jameson DVD to watch would you? (I hope you just mentally said "no")

One quote from the bible - Ezekiel 23:9 to verse 21 which I will not post here because I know there are some younger eyes lately around this section but it's quite X-rated. Please look up that verse at Biblegateway.com or your own personal bible and then tell me here that you would be fine with that material in the hands of little children.

"Therefore I handed her over to her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted.

Why are you so fixated on hell, Kratos? There is MUCH MUCH more to Christian beliefs than hell, in fact, hell really doesn't come into 99.99% of the conversations I have with my kids, and I would venture to say it's not a huge topic of most conversations between children and parents or students and teachers. In fact, you, as a non-believer, probably spend WAAAAY more time thinking and talking about it than most Christians do..... I wonder why?

There are people who do not consider themselves particularly religious who are opposed to homosexuality and abortion, Kratos, and additionally, those are valid values for people to have, just because you do not agree with them does not make them improper values.

(Eze 23:9) Oh my gosh!! Yes, that is just as graphic as a porn DVD!!! LOL give me a break, Kratos, this is fantastically childish of you. How old are you again?

It's a good point to make. Just because there are other elements of the faith doesn't mean I, a nonbeliever, am going to simply forget about the awful parts of faith.

That there are others doesn't still mean that the faith doesn't preach them however. They're improper values to me... Isn't this what this discussion is about and what forums are for? Our opinions?

Read on. I said verses 9 to 21.

Childish because I don't think graphic sexual references should be in the hands of innocent children?

There's a BIG difference between not forgetting and ONLY focusing on that.

Of course they are, but then you should also be ready to have those opinions questioned shouldn't you? Isn't that what the forums are also for?

I said it was childish of you to compare that to a porn DVD. But even so, doesn't it make sense then to have adult supervision when children are reading the Bible, so that they may guide them to the more age-appropriate passages?

Hitler kissed babies... Why don't we remember that more often?

Indeed, I've learned a lot from UM by having my own opinions questioned.

It's not a far stretch. Not really, it doesn't make more sense. I honestly doubt they give bibles to children and then tell them not to read certain verses.

I'd think my gender would be apparent from the MALE entry next to GENDER on my post ID, but some of us aren't that observative, apparently.

So, you're point is that because people believe in a God you don't, they should be slandered? Every one of us has the right to believe whatever we want, but none of us has the right to degrade anyone else's faith simply because they've got a problem with it. You can have all the issues you want with God, the Bible, the Church, etc...but what gives anyone the right to insult and attack anyone else's beliefs?

I wouldn't go towards rationalized as I would self deluded but that's another story.

I am an average guy for the most part. Yet, I went to public school rather then having my education be religious. The fact still remains that these schools are brainwashing children. The purpose of their parents paying thousands of dollars for their kids to go there is so they will recieve that religious schooling to retain those beliefs for the rest of their lifes. It's no different really then the warlords in Africa brainwashing children to fight for them.

How can you be sure that it wasn't ALL of them? And if even SOME of the did make an intelligent, well-rationalized decision to maintain the values and beliefs they grew up with, they, along with you and those others who did walk away make a joke of your point, since that means those "poor brainwashed" children you are so concerned about are not so brainwashed after all. Sorry, but you do not strike me as being intellectually inferior or superior, just an average guy, so if an average guy can "walk away" then the brainwashing must be really bad, so stop worrying about it.

I'm sure the neo-Nazis do.

"It's not a far stretch"? Wow. OK, I guess from your point of view they are... makes me wonder how much porn you watch that you have gotten so desensitized that you think it's equal to this passage.

There are people who do not consider themselves particularly religious who are opposed to homosexuality and abortion, Kratos, and additionally, those are valid values for people to have, just because you do not agree with them does not make them improper values.

son this is your quote, above i would just like to say as NB that i do not find bashing homosexuality"a value" or again forcing a pov (biblical) on another as to define how one should love for me as long as it does no harm....... nor do i find imposing a POv on one who has been raped or sexually victimized, or hasn't received a proper sexual education or whose live could be lost due ot a pregnancy or the child severly r******ed... who opts for an abortion a valueless person either...

i also want to say that a liberal christian, and most NB's enough to infer alot of them look to each situation on the abortion thing the same you ask us to do for you.. so your comment is a bit of a huge sweep ...IMO...

so if a "average guy" can walk away
according to your logic.. what does that say about the remaining believers... lol

And you know, the vast majority of Christians don't even believe in a literal "hell" the Bible actually talks very little about it until you get into Revelations.

Most Christian kids are brought up with the "childrens versions" of the Bible. Young children are taught the simple stories like Noah, and how Jesus was a good guy that went around healing everyone and was nice to everyone. They're most often given the "Bible Lite" version. Very very few children are sat down with a KJV and told to read it cover to cover. Mostly they wouldn't understand what they were reading in the first place.

if got wanted children to read a "bible lite" version wouldnt he have written eternal life for dummies or something?
why would children not get the full version unless there is something shamefull to hide from them?
dont they deserve the truth? what is it about the bible children should not know? what will happen if they find out about these things you dont want them to know?
when did the religious human become morally Superior enough to decide when a child is able to read what is in the bible, did jesus say anything about this? i think he said quiet the opposite.

More of the article here: Link

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Such a sad and disturbing article. Those poor children being brainwashed from such a young age. Amazing how this is allowed to go on.
Great post -this clearly shows the high levels of conditioning and indoctrination that goes on at some 'religious' schools.
This kind of manipulative brainwashing should be seen as a diluted form of abuse and should be stopped.
Instead of being forcefed religious propaganda,these kids should be afforded the luxury of arriving at their own conclusions.

Such a sad and disturbing article. Those poor children being brainwashed from such a young age. Amazing how this is allowed to go on.
Great post -this clearly shows the high levels of conditioning and indoctrination that goes on at some 'religious' schools.
This kind of manipulative brainwashing should be seen as a diluted form of abuse and should be stopped.
Instead of being forcefed religious propaganda,these kids should be afforded the luxury of arriving at their own conclusions.

Sheri, please read what I wrote. I did not say "bashing" homosexuals was a valid value, I said opposing homosexuality was a valid value.

So, basically, those who did not walk away from their belief MUST be brainwashed?

Actually, God provided parents who are supposed to be responsible for their children's education, to protect them from situations and content which they are not mature enough to deal with yet.

They are CHILDREN!! They are not born knowing how to reason for themselves, that's why parents stick around to raise them and don't just wander away like most animals do. They are not being brainwashed any more than kids in public schools who are trained to think "we're ALL winners and there are no losers" are being brainwashed.

I think this is a bogus argument. Private schools are better, period, and if religion is mixed in, so be it. The success rate of, and rate of kids that go on to college far out-weigh those that go to public schools. Go through Forbes, find the people that went to public vs private school, and compare that ratio to the amount of people that go to public vs private school. It's a no-brainer.

Tossing in this brainwashing crap is just the secular lefty agenda's way of scaring people, yet no one will balk at the liberal agenda that most students are subjected to in college.