Bibles open to Genesis, teacher Betty-Anne Rozema is telling her Grade 4 class at Knox Christian School what God promised Noah.

"God made a covenant – that means a promise – that He would never destroy the Earth with a flood again," she says as she walks among the desks checking Old Testament worksheets for this daily Bible class. "And I believe Him."

Up shoots a hand.

"But there was that flood in Peterborough!" notes a boy.

Without missing a beat, Rozema responds, "That's true, but God promised not to flood the whole Earth again."

At this sprawling country school, where 134 families from Newmarket to Bowmanville pay up to $12,500 a year to give their children a Christian education, the word of God strikes a daily truce with the news of the world.

Harry Potter is banned from the library – some families feel it glamorizes evil – but kids can bring their own copies to read.

Christmas is celebrated – Jesus, not Santa – but Halloween is not, to respect those opposed to its focus on fright.

The Bible is a considered a textbook here, just like the Math Quest, Spelling Workout and Language Power books students use to follow the Ontario curriculum.

More of the article here: Link

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Such a sad and disturbing article. Those poor children being brainwashed from such a young age. Amazing how this is allowed to go on.

How else did you think religion is still a live. Islam is alive because their children were force fed it at an early age. Christianity is alive because it's force fed to children at an early age. Judaism is still alive because it's also taught and force fed to children at an early age.

It's disgusting, how brain washing is so common in religion. Granted some convert from teen-hood, which is fine for me being that they can actually think for themselves.

Is this in canada ??? it isn't clear on where this is...

I say let them teach what they want. Eventually, universities will not allow creationists into science majors and hopefully these kids get some exposure to other lifestyles/beliefs before they attain any type of political office.

Yeah, it is. Ontario, Canada.



Indeed. The kids have no choice in the matter and there's no one to protect the children.



Who's going to protect the children? Again, they have no choice in this matter.

It is in Canada.

The silly part about all the fuss is that most of the kids take it with a grain of salt like Greek mythology. The educations are simply better in private religious schools.

If the school was set up for children of atheists would you still find it sad?
Parents have the responsibility to educate children based on what they believe is best for their children. And if they are Moslem, Jew, Atheist or Christian they should have the right to send their children to a system that have the foundation that they feel is best.
When the children grow up they will chose what kind of University they will go to.

Irish

Protection from what? From being taught the religion of their parents? It's a parent's right to teach their kid whatever religion, or non-religion, they want.

NOBODY should tell anybody else how to raise their child short of defined mental or physical abuse. and teaching religion is hardly (usually) either.

Geez...unbelievable and I'm an agnostic liberal.....

It gets much much deeper, Neo...keep your boots handy.

hmm, I am in a christian funded and based curriculum..( Home schooling ) I have to say that he curriculum is top notch and contrary to popular belief they teach about global warming the interconnectedness of life etc.... evolution they give all sides of the story all of history is presented and religon as it applys to art and islam and the beleifs of the cultures we study are included.........this curriculum really encourages thinking IMO, i wouldn't be a part of it, actaully I am very pleased wththe fairnes s and quality........now many familys do supplement with the bible i am not teaching a one way one truth way myslef , i do not feel in any way they are pushing their beleifs though hidden in the curriculum as many who are opposed tothe idea seemto think......, so far what I have seen seems on the up and up but i have only been in this for 2 years so its early yet.............. ...there is bible storys taught as literature and they are discussed and history and this has a disclaimer that this is based on what they think they know and much was made up to make it more interesting it actaully says this over and over.......
it is no secret that the christian movement is the majority of the home schoolers..Now this is a offshoot of the public system but agian its funded because of the CM.....i am just speaking of the curriculum not the familys...

I'm glad you're so impressed with it, Sheri. I have many friends that went to private Christian schools and now send their own children. The ratio is about half and half on how seriously they take religion, but I can't think of one that hasn't ended up a fine person. I hope your kids get as much out of it.

Tbh. American/Candian schools should do a British. By that I mean, in British public schools we have math, science and english as well as R.E. Along with language, history geography P.E ectect. Which means nothing gets jumbled.

R.E (Religious education) is meant to teach you for 3 years, about the different major religions in the world. (However I had a christian teacher for the last 2 years, so I had 2 years of christian teaching insated... For the first year I had a buddhist teacher, in which we were taught differernt religions. Something she said has stuck with me since that first year; when she was asked what her religion was, she replied "Im not going to tell you, it's up to you what you wish to follow. You may find what you're looking for in my class". Shame she only taught for a year.)

After 3 years, you can choose to carry on R.E for a GCSE level grade. Or you can choose to carry on and get a 1/2 GCSE grade or simply work on homework in the library for an hour instead.
Religion stays in R.E, science stays in the Science classes.

I know this is about private schooling, but public schooling could be less hindered and catch up with the private schoolings.

Depends on what it was about. I'm pro-Comparative religion in public school to learn more about the world. I took it in public school and it was pretty good to learn more about the world without the religious edge being shoved down my throat.

On what they feel right. What they feel right isn't always what is right. Look at the recent religious leader who today was convicted of forcing young girls to be raped by their cousins?

When the children grow up, they've already been brainwashed to keep on the faith. If I take a child from a young age and keep it semi-isolated and keep telling them that the Invisible Pink Unicorn is very much real and that she's done this and that... The child will have a much higher risk of staying brainwashed with the virus of faith for the rest of their life.

as long as it isn't in the public schools I could care less. teach all the fables you want.

You seem to have this fixation on rapist Christians, wake up Kratos their are evil people of every religion and some with no religious beliefs at all. What you are saying its education if they teach what you believe is correct and brainwashing if they teach anything else.
I can see you have not raised any children.
People have a right to teach their children whatever they believe are the correct way. The alternative would be far worse. Live and let live.
Irish

thanks michelle, thas good to hear.... even the familys that are kind of different in their beleifs are good people, and really for me its how one implements the idea, and there is no hard fast rule.....religon suits some , and they bring to it the essence that they are as people ...

If you had even read what I said in the other thread and even this one, I never acknowledged them as christian.

Education is suppose to be with facts and with freedom. This school offers very little of both. Education is a gateway to progress, not an idea to make little robots.

And they should in their own home but when it comes to education I don't believe these sorts of schools should be put up with because it only keeps a brainwashing method going.

Mmmmm....what will the teacher say if the climate warms up, the poles melt and the whole earth floods?

Oh...I forgot...thats going to be OUR fault....not God's.....

Catholic schools are best for education...reason being is they are very strict, they take no crap...they aren't as laid back as other schools...

Not because they are religious mind you...no..lol...only because they are strict and I mean strict!

90% of all your threads are written to bash or ridicule religious belief in some way.

Education also encompasses philosophy, law, art, music and dance and is not always based on known hard facts but principles and speculation. I somehow doubt that you will accuse these teachings as brainwashing.

We are paying our government to do nearly the exact same thing. Just substitute religion with whatever ideology that happens to be popular with the university pedagogues.

Yup christian schools are the best...I should know...had to attend an all girls catholic school...were you were afraid to show up without homework done...afraid to mess around in class ect...they had no time for any crap from a pupil...if you are there to learn anything, they will soon give you the education you need...if not...just don't go there..it's simple

We who attended public schools had no protection either, Kratos, but then it does depend on the locale. Parents entrust faculty to oversee and promote the well being of their children, it's nothing new. The issue that it seems you're taking with this school is that it's run by "Christians" for the intent and purpose of spreading "Christianity". Sooner or later, every child in these schools will interact with members of another religious belief. When that happens, we'll see the success, or lack thereof, of these schools and anyone who is truly looking out for their children’s best interest will see what these places do to a person's social skills. There's nothing wrong with believing in God, but when that belief is made into an oppressive tool, then the problem begins.

I don't like the idea of raising children up with a pacifier in one hand and a crucifix in the other any more than I like any close minded individuals spreading their beliefs as "truths". But, alas, that's the way of the world. With all the damage religion has done to you, you still seem to have turned out decently. We seek out what we perceive, and perceive what we're shown. Why would anyone trade the comfort, misguided though it may be, found in religion for the disdain you show toward your fellow man? Peace, Kratos, that's what the world needs to learn. The only way to have anyone seek it out is to allow them to perceive it in our actions and words. Getting pissed off over these things isn't going to help anyone, least of all you! Try another way. Take care!

I agree, most of the Christian-based curricula out there is very good, very well thought-out and does a great job of teaching the basics... yes, there are curricula out there that are barely more than "religious propaganda" but then I think one could find that even in curricula not developed by Christians. The curriculum we use does, I think, a great job of exploring the various major current and historical cultures of the world, and promotes a lot of thinking and consideration, even though it does also point out different cultural values as they compare to Christian vales.


You give the lie to your own statement, Kratos. Weren't you "brainwashed"? And yet here you are actually thinking for yourself, doing it badly, but still thinking for yourself.


Really? What is freedom, Kratos? Who gets to define it? To me freedom includes the right as a parent to raise my children with the cultural and religious values, I believe are best. It seems from the way you are stating this, that you do not consider that to be freedom.

I hate it when I don't see additional posts when I make a reply...


Yes, it will be! Mom's none to happy with the way we've treated her! Since it would appear that you don't believe in God, how could it be Dad's fault? Now, I'm making an assumption here, so if I've assumed wrong, forgive me. However, if I'm right, answer the question. Take care!

What does that have to do with price of tea in China?

If they were being paid thousands of dollars a year to push a single idea, I would.



Not always and I'd be against that as well. Even in the US I got to learn about other ideaologies and discussed them in class.



They have a lot more because schools are pushing a single religion. Even if these children meet other religions, there's a much lesser chance that they'll be able to think freely because of years of brainwashing. Public schools are suppose to be more open and allowing more free thought.

The belief is being used to opress those children by brainwashing them though.

I guess I'm lucky. Of all the kids I grew up with, I only know 2 others who broke away. That's out of a few hundred children.

Peace is good and so is progress...



I was one of the very few that broke free. Yet, till this day I still have the little things still ingrained.

Many victims still have problems. I know Richard Dawkins interviewed a victim that was a bit more extreme, to me, then most about her fear of hell and damnation even though she's a free thinker.



Freedom of thought within reason and using facts. And you can do that I think in your own home, just not in school. Sending kids to a religious school would be like throwing a science textbook in Sunday mass.

I go to a Catholic high school, it isn't as bad as you'd think. They do teach some religious studies, but I often skip class for them. Nobody takes them all that seriously, our old religion teacher just made us colour pictures for religion class (no, it wasn't kindergarten, it was Gr.10), so yeah, kinda a waste of class but oh well. Our school doesn't do anything with any of the other schools, we are kinda isolated to ourselves (with the exception of the French Catholic school). As for it being strict, it's not too bad. I've been suspended on a few occasions for some pretty stupid stuff, but other than that it is just like any other school.

They do have a choice, they make it when they're old enough to make it... just like you Kratos. You got the "correct" information didn't you?

So till they're old enough they should be stuck being brainwashed?

Not very easily either... Again, I'm one of the very few that broke free. For a long time I struggled with my family and even today I still struggle sometimes with them over faith.

I don't think we can say it was 'Dad's' fault last time.... I don't believe in God in the traditional organised
religion type way....but I do believe in something more than just the physical...other dimensions of existence
blah blah blah...etc.

We treat 'Mom' appallingly, I agree.....but I don't think we are responsible for major climate changes...although
the pollution created by humans isn't helping...but that's another subject...and a can of worms.

In fact the whole subject of religion is a can of worms rolling through a minefield.....whoops...that was a horrible
sentence...but never mind...

I personaly, have had no religious brainwashing and I'm grateful for that. In fact the R.E. (religious education)
teacher at my 'high' school (many years ago) was a bit pervy and treated as a bit of a joke. I quite enjoyed the stories and the
pictures in R.E. but there was nothing heavy.

1.Really? I'd always thought kids were taught to follow the rules, be polite, etc. in public schools too. It's not until a child reaches late adolescence that free though is really encouraged, Kratos.

2.How so?

3.Then why aren't you doing anything to promote either? You segregate people by religious beliefs. That's what you call peace and progress? I'll stick with my definitions, thanks!

Sorry for your own personal pain, I'm sure a lot of people get caught up in the same situation. That's life, you learn to deal with it. You'll find you'll deal with one unfair thing after another you're whole entire life. The media, your boss, the government, big corporations, your very own children and spouse, EVERYONE will want you to bend to their will. They will want to brainwash you... some people fall for it.

That's life. It's not going stop. You have to learn to deal with it and get over it.

Yes, but there is always an element of free thought there. This school actively pushes a single religion onto the childre.



They are being forced into this school and their minds are being oppressed down by a single view point. Their parents are paying the school thousands a year just to keep them like that.



I only give as much as I get. Least I don't call out for the murder of those that I disagree with... Go for it, that's totally up to you.



That's just crap to basically say life isn't fair. Life is full of pain and misery but it doesn't have to be shoved down your throat when you're just a kid.

EVERYONE's parents shoved crap down their throats when they were kids. When I was a kid, my parents jepodized my health by shoving nothing but beans, grains, fruits and veggies down my throat.

I'm sure I've brainwashed my own kid in ways that aren't readily apparent yet. I imagine that at some point she'll be furious with me for dragging her all over the world and denying her a formal school education until she was 15. Or it'll be something else I haven't thought about yet.

Life isn't fair. It won't ever be fair. But that's cute that you're still young enough to think it can be.

hooold up... yes i agree life is unfair

but are you saying religious dogma and the affects it have is just simply "a way of life" ????

holy s***
what a deeply disturbing way to look at things. wow.

Did I say that? I don't think I did.

Come on man, I'm a Christian, one who belongs to a church that has NO dogma. There would be a reason why.

Life is unfair, our parents dump heaps of garbage on us, either intentionally or unintentionally. Get over it.

Ah, so it would be best for this private academy's curriculum to be subject to public opinion? Not much point in making in private then, is there? God forbid a school teach a single idea to children! That's never been done before! Certainly not in public schools!


So, children aren't forced into public schools? That makes truancy laws rather meaningless, doesn't it? Far be it for anyone to think according to their beliefs or spend their own money as they see fit! Communism for all!


Ah, but see, that's were your problem is. Some of us would rather give a little more now and hope for a decent return in time. I don't remember ever calling for anyone to be murdered, but my memory is a little off at times. Maybe I did it when I was an atheist.


It's good to know that you'll acknowledge that choice peacefully, but not my choice of religious beliefs. Take care, Kratos. Peace be with you!

So, basically, those who did not walk away from their belief MUST be brainwashed? Only those who walk away actually are the ones DECIDING? Seems like you're making a huge assumption there, Kratos. Is it possible these others made conscious decisions to continue following the values and beliefs they grew up with?

Son,

Some states fought hard to keep charters from coming up, esepcially Michigan, that I know of..the reason being that if funds were allocated from the tax payers pool then many who are religous feel their freedoms are being infringed apon.. With funding comes accountability, and i am aware of HS groups who will not go charter for this reason,.They feel they are selling out...Now i feel better knowing that church, and state are kept seperate, even though the curriculum is open it is fair, and quality in education tha tis wht concerns me.... I donot have a desire to exclude relgion from my child i want all philosphys taught, and looked at, what ever speaks to my sons heart is up to him not me , i am not presenting all the constructs to him to make a choice but to better understand the world within which he lives and to better serve diversity with peace, with understanding....i don't favor anyone telling anyone how to raise their children including religion, because not all folks are extremeists in their views and many bring a beauty to the idea and change things for the better....

i do not feel that threads as this are meant to bash and attack religion, i see them as bringing in alot of pov to see all sides to better make decisions, and simply understand deeper ...I for one appreciate the diverse converstations, and being aware of the different approaches,...certainly I am not in favor of brainwashing anyone, but I am in favor of learning more, being more understanding, which can lead to more peaceful communions between us......IMO

Not all of them.

You were one of the lucky few that broke free huh, Kratos?

Sorry, you're not that special...there are a lot of us out there. We just don't go around pushing our non beliefs down the throats of other people, trying to brainwash them that our way of thinking is the only correct way no matter what they have been told. Brainwashing them into believing that they really are, deep down in their hearts, murderers, pedophiles and rapists. Telling them these things over and over and over until they finally get it into their thick skulls that you are right and they are wrong...murderers, pedophiles and rapists, the lot of them, over and over and over...murderers, pedophiles and rapists, over and over and over...murderers, pedophiles and rapists, over and over and over..............................deep down in their hearts.....................over and over............murderers....

I was still referring to my earlier comments about my area. I only know of 2 others that no longer keep the faith.

Though yet, we are a few yet despite our growth in recent years.

I wasn't aware I told them they were, just that their faith had a long history with it according to belief with their god. They worship him and find him to be all knowing and all perfect so I'm assuming then they would also agree with his actions.

1 Odd, isn't it, that the school in question is located in Canada, and yet you talk about freedom in the States? This isn't a hypothetical situation, Sheri, so please don't invent problems that aren't yours. *snip*

2 Really? Because the statement at the end of the OP...

...sort of says it all! If not, perhaps this...

...will make the OP's purpose a little clearer.


Not in so many words, Kratos, but it's certainly been implied.

His actions? Wow! With all that knowledge you have, you'd still choose to waste it. So, what is it, exactly, that you look for out of life, Kratos?

Waste it how?



The usual: Hundreds of grandchildren, utter domination of known space, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in terrible, highly improbably accidents that cannot be connected to me. And you?
-Charlemagne, Jaguar Pride

I am surprised to see so many comments about being taught religion, even comparative, in public schools. Throughout my entire schooling, not once did we receive any religious discussions, education, debates, comparisons...etc. The only time I ever remember religion in the classroom was when I was in the 1st grade, we wasn't allowed to say "Oh my God." Because it was taking the Lords name in vain; and the teacher was Christian. We wasn't reprimanded for it, but told not to do it again.

I wasn't either, Empress. I graduated in 80 from public school.

well it appears as if you are. he was in direct reference to the roll religion played in his upbringing, you said its just life.
and in reference to your other post, no not "EVERYONE's" parents shove unpleasentries down their childs throat, thats just a spectacular claim with no truth to it.
on a side note, how on earth did your parents put your health in jepoardy with what appears to be an extremely healthy diet?

I'll humor you. By your estimate, God does not exist, correct? By your estimate, the Bible was written by man in the interests of man, correct? How then, by your estimate, can a nonexistent being act against humanity and inspire war, rape, etc? You continually post thread after thread blatantly insulting those of the Christian faith for believing in the values taught in the Bible based on your disagreements with ideas that you ultimately don't believe in. Why? You think it foolish for others to follow a faith you walked away from? One's choice to believe in God is a personal decision, Kratos! Just because you don't find it logical, moral, whatever, doesn't mean that others have those same issues that you do. Of all the gods presented in all the different religions in the world, you choose to take the most issue with Christianity. Why? It's not your religion anymore! Just because you won't follow it, doesn't mean others won't. You've pointed out, time and again, that "God" killed innocent people in the flood, ordered the first born sons of Egypt slain, etc, etc. Here's the problem we believers have with such arguments, Kratos...you don't believe it! If you don't believe it, why are you so up in arms over it? Because some people believe in a God that would allow, if not command, these things to happen? What does it matter? Are Christians trying to take your life? Those of your family and friends? If it doesn't affect you, why bother with it? You insult your own intelligence and ours with this constant bickering! Do you think that every believer on Earth blindly follows the text of the Bible? Most of us think! Most of us are aware of the flaws of the Bible and have chosen to move on. We can accept values, however they're presented! Just move on with your life, man! It's like a bully that picked on you in middle school that you've spent day and night dreaming of getting even with! You've chosen to walk away from the bully, but you still want to call him names and then get all pissed off when someone tells you that you're wrong for doing it! Give it a rest! Now that I think about it, you come off more and more childish with every post you make concerning Big Bad God and His zealots! Grow up, accept that everyone's entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, and move on!

And that, sir, is how you're wasting your knowledge. Good night, good luck, and God bless you!

Well I guess society in general, and social institutions such as schools in particular, will always try to impose those beliefs and behaviours they see as best /most positive on all members of the society. Personally I get furious at Social movements in schools; based on false realities, and imposing one set of beliefs on all.

My two pet hates are ; encouraging kids to recycle, when in fact this is a political appeasement, which in terms of energy and resource usage is actually creating a net negative effect on the environment.
Second, and newly arriving in Australian schools, is the removal of Non -healthy food from the school environment. Some schools were actually(illegally) going so far as to remove food from kids lunch boxes, and replacing it with what they determined to be healthier options. Apart from the police/nanny state implications, there is a lot of disagreement about what is really healthy for kids.

Getting back into context, schools should not be in the business of either validating, or denying, matters of personal belief, whether these are; religious. economic, environmental or dietary. A lot of modern Australian high school courses have a distinct bias against capitalism because they were written by academics who are the product of a university system which, at best, has very restricted social view points, and at worst, is terrribly out of step with the realities of the world, and society in general.

Schools should not get in the road of kids developing a diversity of honest and balanced belief systems.

Having said that, I am talking about a govt/public education system. If people choose to send kids to private schools for reasons of economic advantage or social/ religious beliefs that remains their prerogative in a democratic/free society.

Quite the rant about me.



So? According to belief it's fact.



I don't single out christianity though christianity is a big thing because of the huge population of them in the country I live in and in the media I read. This forum is also Spirituality vs Skepticism.

Who cares if I don't believe it? I can still discuss it just like how I can discuss the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Niether one is real to me. You're so mad that I critize belief and then you're mad that I do it when I don't believe. I know believers here that don't believe in evolution or such but still use evolution facts to critize the theory and I haven't (maybe you have?) see you slam on them for posting.

Childish? You get over it. My god (ha ha!) you're like obsessed with me. If you don't like my posts, I do not care. I simply do not care. Put me on ignore. Scroll over my posts instead of reading them. Just pretend I don't exist then. You say it's me with the problem but no, it's really you with me. I'm not going to change.



But here we have it... We're all entitled to our opinions and beliefs... Even me.