In my continuing quest to understand religion and people who believe in it, I have another topic that I've been thinking about. I have heard from quite a few Christians that they can't wait for the rapture. I was wondering what people thought of the rapture, if they are looking forward to it, if they want it to come, if they want it to not come in their lifetime, etc.

Also, a little subquestion, what do you think about the idea of helping the rapture along, i.e. trying to get certain requirements to be fulfilled? I have heard that certain groups are trying to push for the rapture, but I will say that it's only hersey and I don't have proof, so I'm just looking for opinions.

Thank you!!!

(And thank you to everyone for putting up with my weird "getting to know religion" posts.)

As Christians we feel that another gift in belief in Christ is the rapture. That when the crap hits the fan in this world, which almost all of us believe is within the next 20 years or so, we will be pulled out of it and met in the sky with Christ. The rapture is supposed to happen before ww3, when Russia invades Israel and is defeated in the mountains as predicted in revelations. Only the ones who believe in Jesus Christ as their personal savior will be lifted out of this world. If you think the world is bad now? This is heaven compared to what the tribulation will be. Do I look forward too it? Of course I do, but I wouldnt push it...Those groups that are pushing toward a rapture that claim to be "Christian" are not of Christ thats for sure. Things will play out the way God has meant them too and no one can speed it up or slow it down from happening. This world is in a downward spiral and the suffering of mankind will get worse. If at anytime in the future a charasmatic, good-looking leader takes over the world and tells you the only way to get food or to pay for things is a mark on your four head or in your palm, remember my words and deny it even though he promises death. This has been already prophecized in the book of revelations. The story has already been told, the war has already been won, its just playing itself out.

It's honestly something I don't even think about. But some of the stories I hear sounds quite interesting.

Everyone will walk across a great abyss, those who believe will see a stone walkway, and cross the abyss with ease, as those who are disbelievers will have to try and cross a bridge that is thin as a hair, and as sharp as a sword. They will tumble into the abyss, thus going to hell; but there is an Angel (I forget which one exactly) who will go and retrieve those who fall if they have sincerity in their heart that Allah is the one true God, and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the last prophet.

When Jesus, peace be upon him, returns, there will be an abundance of everything. Wealth will flow like streams of water, harmful animals will no longer become harmful, children will be able to chase lions, fruit will be so large you can use the peeling as if it were an Umbrella, there will be no more war, and everyone in agreement, it will be peaceful.

He will live amongst us for 40 years, marry, have children, and die a natural death. If my knowledge is correct, it is then will he become witness for or against us on the day of judgment, which a book of all our deeds, both good and bad are examined to determine if we enter paradise or not.

But don't take my post as 100% correct Islamic view, I'm still learning and skimming in my head what I've already read and been told.

The Rapture is only one belief concerning the End Times prophecies, and only applies to those Christians who hold to a Pre-Millenial belief of Eschatology (study of End times). It has been my experience that American Christians are unusually attached to Pre-millenialist ideas. I don't know if you have heard of "pre-millenialism" before, but it is one of three main interpretations of End Times prophecy. It essentially holds a literal interpretation of Revelation, that one day in the future God will "rapture" up all the Christians into the clouds. Then there will be a period of struggle and pain as the Anti-Christ comes to reign on Earth and deceiving many millions of remaining humanity. Then Jesus will return, cast the anti-Christ aside and set up his reign on Earth for a thousand years.

However, this is one interpretation. There are three branches of Eschatological beliefs.

* Pre-Millennialism
* Post-Millennialism
* Amillennialism

I've explained Pre-millennialism already. "Post-millennialism" believes similarly but sees the thousand year reign of peace occuring before Jesus' return. I know there are other differences also, but I'm not too clear on the specifics of this. Read the link above for full details.

And then there is what I believe - Amillennialism. This takes a less literal view of the End Times and prophecies from Revelation. Amillennialists hold the belief that we are already in the End Times, that the Beast has already been defeated as a result of Christ's death and resurrection, that there is no literal one person who will be the anti-Christ (there will in fact be many anti-Christs - anyone who opposes Christ is anti (against) christ). We believe that the Kingdom of God and the reign of peace spoken of has already been instituted in a spiritual sense. And that one day in the unspecified future, Jesus will return to Judge the living and the dead and institute that peace in a very real and physical sense. There is no reign of the Beast or false prophet in Amillenialism. There is no Rapture in Amillenialism.

I have found my study of the Rapture to be an unsound doctrine, based on a dubious passage from Thessalonians. I could be wrong of course. As I've said, I hesitate to base any doctrine on the book of Revelation, due to its symbolic nature. I think Amillenialism makes a lot more sense than premillennialism, but that's just how I see it. It doesn't affect the way I live my life though. If there is no Rapture, then it won't matter. If there is a Rapture, then I would hope to be one of those raised up. But I don't think not believing in the Rapture is a requisite, only belief in Jesus, and that is something I can control. I should only start to worry if the Rapture comes and I find myself left behind........

Hope that helps you

~ Regards, PA

This is a sore point for me, anyone who literally believes in the rapture, is no friend of mine, i think its the most evil concept.. scary.
all it does is further promote violence in the middle east, gives an excuse for an agenda of war! this is horrible, because before christ can even return much more "prophecies" must be fulfilled... extremely violent ones! prophecy? give me a break, this an a agenda for war.
hm yea the believers will all be zapped up in to heaven leaving behind everything else..
someone say heavens gate?
yeah.. christianity is not a cult at all.

but on the other hand im interested in hearing the many many different christian takes on this.. the "end times"
lol
how dare they

Man, PA, I can always count on you for some of the best information!! Kudos! I haven't heard of any of those three offical names. I always figured there were different beliefs, but that you for fleshing them out.

The whole rapture idea fascinates and mezmorizes me.

I find your posts and threads interesting, i am glad there are people out there wanting and willing to learn about new religions. And besides i am learning a whole heap along the way aswell

I am just perplexed on how someone who believes in the rapture is evil and corrupt? That the ones who have had this sacred knowledge of it all can be raptured by up by God and the ones who dwindle in non-belief stay on earth? Sounds like equal judgement to me.

Only 40 years? Sorry mate, but if he dies a Natural death he'll be much older than 40 :l

Unless he's born with some defect .. He should at least live until he's 70 ..

what a blissful existence you must live.

The Rapture is one idea I was wholeheartedly glad to drop. I'd put it in the top 10 worst ideas to hit Christianity since the 18th century.

Weird, I did a full-text search in an electronic version of the bible and the word "Russia" never came up. I guess this makes sense since the political entity known as Russia didn't exist 2,000 years ago.

Question is, are you lying when you say that Revelations says Russia will attack Israel or is it just one of those ridiculous things where modern "scholars" () find modern-day explanations for strung-out babblings scrawled through the Book of Hallucinations?

How can a religion "drop" any of their sacred texts? Don't you guys think it is wrong to let men just edit the very core of a religion?

Then again, maybe this is actually good for all of humanity - if religions keep getting more and more watered down and people get more and more modern and begin realizing how stupid most of the religious texts are then maybe we can avoid some future wars and get priests off the payroll and use the land that the churches are occupying for better purposes and give people some really relevant social groups to attend on sunday where they can discuss politics, sports, current events, fantasy and other cool stuff instead of being preached at by some representative of a religion that has already been corrupted nearly beyond recogniztion by thousands of years of introduced dogma and ritual.

You will not find anyone that held to the idea of the Rapture before the 19th century, and I would say less than a quarter of Christians today hold to it. It is hardly central to Christianity.

What is this rapture ??? it sounds like the "carousel" in "logan's run"



fullywired

Like Paranoid_Android and Something_like_laughter, I don't belive in the "End of Times" either .... I think you'll find far more Christians who believe Amillennialism. No rapture.

The issue is that the folks that do believe in the End of Times and Rapture, are incredibly vocal, but their beliefs aren't the majority. Not by a long-shot.

I guess a religion that allows its "adherants" to pick and choose and just decide which books don't really matter, la-te-da would be appealing!

Well then, since I saw the Muslim view, I will present the Jewish view. There will be no rapture because Christ is dead and isn't coming back (sorry to burst your bubble Neph.) However, there will be a time when the real Messiah (the one that will be human, not God, and King of Israel) will come to the Earth through a NORMAL birth and live in Israel, rebuild the temple, establish world peace, and bring home all the Israeli Exiles. Once all of this is completed, God will descend upon the Earth and will dwell, here on Earth, in his Temple (in whatever form he should choose to take) for all eternity. Life will continue, but death will not occur. All the dead will rise, and all people will live here on Earth under God's rulership. That's what's really going to happen.

kinda looking forward to it myself, most of ordinary life sucks anyway, need some excitement

Well, concidering that "Christian" as you state it is not "one" belief system, it would be far more interesting to look at how the individual sects and denominations interpret Revelations and why. It's not a matter of picking and choosing, it's a matter of interpretation.

IMO no such thing as the Rapture lol...no one can predict when the end of times will be lol...they have tried to...and failed...cuz we are still here!!

please tell me your joking.
you make it sound stupendously simple, this illustrates the sheer arrogance of an end time believer. For one you leave out many details you deem necessary to occur before a few of these "prophecies" can be fulfilled. The one you have mentioned about the temple being rebuilt is not that simple, thousands of people will lay down their life before they let that temple be rebuilt. All sides think god is on their side and by doing these things the are fulfilling a divine prophecy. NO YOU ARE NOT you are fulfilling a man made agenda, call it what you will.
none of your gods or their friends are returning. Dont you see its in the believers interest to have these prophecies happen, its all self fulfilling. Please look outside the box for 5 seconds.

What SLL is saying is that "the Rapture" did not even exist in the Bible. It was not until a dubious reading of Thessalonians in the 19th century that anyone even started believing in a Rapture. It's not that he's simply "dropping" something from our sacred texts, but rather that the concept of the Rapture was never there in the first place.

This rapture thing is something i have only see in USA Christians. I have not see any mention of it from any other Christian.

I'd help but I already believe we are far past the prophecy of Daniel and John, there was a huge movement in the mid 1800's that thought Christ was returning, however most gave up when the fireworks didn't show.
At the time they all seen the signs and were very sure of their estimations... (Daniel says there will be 2 (Christ returned and his Father) and will come from Persia)

And I do like your weird posts Buddharat, I believe it was you who helped me in meditation techniques a week or so ago on this forum.

I imagine (and this is just purely assumption) he would return to earth as the same age he was when he ascended to heaven. He would probably be in his 70's or 80's when his death occurs.

I wish that were true, but i know for a fact the conspiricy is ripe here in australia.
its just that as you know americans have the loudest mouths lol

^Heh, it's been my experience that End Times isn't a big part of theology in Australian churches. And when it does come up, I've found Amillenialism to be more widely accepted than any other. But it does seem that Americans can get a little zealous over the whole "End is nigh" issue - at least, that has been my experience.

just a little? i wish

i found this show interesting
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid...h&plindex=0

talks about the danger of the self fulfilling rapture we are farmiliar with.
the affects it can realisticly have becuase its in the best interest in believers to have this stuff happen.
sad stuff

I'm sorry, but what details do I deem necessary to occur before the prophecies in question are fulfilled?


It doesn't matter who gets in the way. Israel belongs to the Jews, and if they should decide to rebuild the temple, they could do it, right where the temple belongs. They have the best Middle Eastern Army, and until someone kicks their ass they don't have to worry about who gets in the way of their agendas. Unfortunately, its said that the Messiah (when he comes) will rebuild the third temple. So for now there's nothing to worry about.


Uh....I'm not going to fulfill anything. That's the Messiah's job.


Returning?



Zombie, from the gist of you post, I'm pretty sure you still think I am a Christian, if you know I'm not a Christian than I must ask...did you read my post?


Also, I wonder...what's so self-fulfilling about the prophecies? What do I gain (other than dwelling with God eternally)?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH

need i say more.

good on ya m8

?

Correct me if I am wrong.

As I understand it, this rapture thing was made up by some English theologian in the 1800’s. Apparently there is no direct reference in the bible to this event. I guess this guy put together several different unrelated biblical passages in order to construct his particular interpretation of the end times. I am sure in his mind he was divinely inspired to cut and paste these passages into yet another version of the already splintered Christian belief system. Apparently all the nut jobs in America bought into this idea big time.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "nutjobs", but the general premise of your post is sound - the "Rapture" comes from a very controversial interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, which was only decided upon in the 18th Century. While it does have some merit, I do stress only "some", in the context of the passage as it fits with the bible as a whole. Of course, it does seem that Christians (in America specifically) have bought into the whole "Rapture" idea.

As I said, I think there are better interpretations of the passage, but this is just giving more details of the idea of the Rapture.

~ Regards, PA

Wow and I thought the world was already over populated. Add every dead person to every living person and we will have to stand on each others shoulders. Of coarse god will have a solution to this, perhaps shrink everyone down to the size of Chihuahuas? Or maybe enlarge the earth to accommodate everyone. Either way I am sure god will work out all the physics and make thing right.

PA.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and reasoning. You are truly one of the good ones. To bad there aren’t more like you. BTW I am not being sarcastic.

Ahh, The Rapture. The highly anticipated END to all Christian ~*Enturbulation*~ (lol) by the world and its unchristly inhabitants.

I believe that it's a stupid idea, but a dangerous one. The more people there are that believe the world will end so soon, the more likely it is the world WILL end so soon.
Beliefs influencing actions and all that stuff...

Yep, he probably will. I'm not exactly sure, I can only develop my own theories.