Hello all.

I watched this movie on the internet today, here's a link

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/


I would like to know your opinions on it, if you've seen it of course.
Regardless of your views.

I am what I guess you'd call a christian, and it was very interesting to me, to say the least.


Please share your views on it.

:]

it was made by satan, just trust the Bible it does not hurt
the part 3 just made me happy, after that we will be one step closer to end of the world

P.S. red clouds over my town this night, they move very fast and there is a full and very bright moon.
the sky is red at 10PM and 4AM

Unfortunately i am at work and can't watch the whole film, but I was skipping through it. Why is it made by Satan? Because it questions points of the bible? I'm just curious as to your basis that Lucifer made this film.

Yes I've watched the movie. it's Excellent, it ties all the bull and just makes to much sense not to be real.

This made me laugh so much I cried.


Thank you.

The video was very interesting thank you.

A bit stream of consciousness, but oh well.

Starting, sounds like a bit heavy on the conspiracy.
The bibliography for part 1 almost reads like a who's who of not to listen to when they talk about Jesus. Gerald Massey, Acharya S, and Remsburg in particular.
Not surprisingly, after looking at the bibliography, the film really screws up the myth of Horus. He wasn't baptized, I don't think he had any disciples, and he most certainly was not crucified. Being a teacher at 12 and being visited by 3 kings sound suspect, but I don't really keep up with this stuff any more. Attis wasn't crucified. Krishna's mother had six normal pregnancies and births, IIRC, before Krishna. He was not resurrected. I'm sure he was reincarnated in some other myth, but there is a very large difference. At least the film does not say he was crucified. Dionysus did not die, and most certainly was not crucified as the picture they show when talking about him seems to say. The titles sound rather suspicious. Pretty sure Mithra did not have disciples, and I can't remember if he died or not. I would dispute the resurrected in three days bit on all of the deities the film mentions. I think it depends on which Mithra you are talking about. There are three, a Persian, a Roman, and an Indian. Beddru of Japan does not exist. It is flashed across the screen 15 minutes in. Yes, I paused it looking specifically for it. At least they use decent icons of Christ. 17 minutes in, did they really just claim Buddha had a virgin birth? They are mixing cultures too much. Only one other deity besides Christ was crucified, a Persian god who's name I cannot remember, but they do not mention it. 12 disciples for the 12 tribes of Israel? Did they think of that? Iconography is not early occult art. At 21 minutes, that is the most impressive example of proof-texting I have ever seen. Not saying it is correct, but you just don't see scripture fly that fast any more. More blanket statements about ancient societies. More stuff about Horus they are wrong about. The flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh was caused by humanity being too loud and preventing the gods from getting some sleep, not man's sin. Can't remember the Sumerian story enough to check the film's other claims. Royal Midwife != Royalty. Are they really claiming that one needs to copy the basic stuff that is in the Ten Commandments? I think the probability of parallel development here is extraordinarily high. NO ONE WAS CRUCIFIED IN EGYPTIAN MYTH. Just now noticing this, but the music in the background sucks. It is two notes on a piano over and over again. I told you this was going to be stream of consciousness. Yes, there is nonbiblical historical evidence of Jesus. LOL, they left Columella in Remsburg's list (32:27). He wrote about trees! That bit in Josephus hasn't been proven to be a forgery in its entirety. [sarcasm]Yes, the decision of the Council of Nicaea was politically motivated. That's why Constantine, an Arian, had his own beliefs condemned.[/sarcasm] These guy's ever heard of Eastern Orthodoxy? They are using eastern icons. 35 minutes in, I could say the exact same thing about science. Social Darwinism anyone?


Well there is my wonderfully organized feelings on part 1. In short, why do people listen to stuff like this?

Very interesting, but those who replied seem to be doing what most people do, grouping all people who call themselves christians together.
But then so does the video.


let me explain the bible doesn't say three kings it says "some astrolagers" never gives a number or says they are kings.

jesus was not impaled on a cross, the hebrew word for cross means "steak"

we as true christians do not use a cross for worship

the bible doesn't claim they followed the north star but it was just a "light" put there by satan because they were sent to kill jesus.

i could go on.

it's well known that Jesus' birthday is not December 25th. No one knows when is the exact day.
It was decided to celebrate it on 25 December just to make it easier for the early Christian to celebrate it since they celebrated the winter festival on the same day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

You mean the pagan Day of Power: Yule, which falls about on the winter solistice where the Goddess give birth to a son, the God. They practiced this for ages before the whole BCE/AD switch. All over europe. Always found that interesting too.

I don't think catholic churches will look as cool after they remove the crucifixion statue that hangs behind the alter and replace it with a dude doubled up in pain with a t-bone steak sticking out of his back.

I think the movie makes great sense.

How? The first part contains many factual errors.

So nobody else is then? Arrogance of the first order. And you need to back up your other claims about the Cross not being real (you know.... crucificion?), and tell us the real names of the "Kings" that went to the cave (Stable).

Let's skip the religious part of the film .What about the rest ?I don't think it is any secret that big money really runs the country but do you think there is any truth that it is world wide conspiracy ?



fullywired

Like the stuff you mentioned above? Even without those parallels i don't think it breaks the overall picture of the bible being a literature/astrology hybrid and Jesus being an evolution of sun-worship.

The film really screws up Horus. He wasn't baptized and he most certainly was not crucified.
Attis wasn't crucified.
Krishna's mother had some number of normal pregnancies and births before Krishna, so he definitely was not born of a virgin. Krishna was not resurrected.
Dionysus did not die, and most certainly was not crucified as the picture they show when talking about him seems to say.
The film claims Buddha had a virgin birth.
The flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh was caused by humanity being too loud and preventing the gods from getting some sleep, not man's sin.

That is the stuff I noticed on one viewing that I am almost certain is incorrect. If one were to check all of their claims, I'm sure one could find many falsehoods.


So you are willing to trust them even though they cannot get very basic facts correct?

Strike that. Let's not. If you wish to discuss the other aspects of the film, feel free to add your thoughts into THIS THREAD or THIS ONE. This is the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board and is here to discuss spiritual matters. The two threads I linked are available on the Conspiracies page, which fits much better.

Very basic facts? What's so "basic" about them? Those are actually highly controversial questions for which we might never have a definitive proof and a final answer.

I think that the bible is a literature/astrology hybrid and a propaganda tool for the gain of money. I think that the official Jesus is an evolution of sun-worship and also a propaganda tool. I think the real Jesus, if he existed, was a philosopher, much like Buddha; he was misunderstood by majority and used by few.

No, they aren't controversial at all. Write down what the film says about Horus, go to a library, and try and find something that supports what the film says.

Perhaps he was the original pedophile

I googled "Jesus and Horus" and i got more than 350.000 results. Almost all of those pages deal with "Jesus-Horus connection". This matter is obviously actively debated on the internet.

Any idiot can and does put up websites. Write down what the film says about Horus and go to a library. Not any idiot can get themselves published in print. Some manage to, so check those guys out too.

That is an incredibly smart statement. Websites can and often are wrong. If I search for research on the internet, I only use the source (like the bible, Koran, etc) or scientific journals/real encyclopedias (not Bob's Backyard Encyclopedia but like the Brittanica).

So, I just wanted to commend you for that post and hope people will listen to you.

So whats your point?
The "Jesus-Horus link" is a controversy, by definition, regardless what is in the conventional libraries.
Are you saying that the official/conventional/mainstream is always right and should not be questioned? History, not rarely, proves the opposite.

Anyway, dissecting these parallels between Jesus and other people makes little difference. Sun-worship, astrology, various people and deities were used as inspiration for the official Jesus and the bible.

By all means, question things all you want (such as in the case of this video), but do so intelligently. In this case, it's a 19th century amateur Egyptologist against just about everybody else.

Again, why should anyone trust the conclusion of the video if it cannot get much of its supporting material right?

Au contraire. Almost all supporting material in "Zeitgeist" they got right. In the whole movie, the only "weak point" are some parallels, between Jesus and others, in the first part. The first part alone and the whole movie make so much sense overall, that dissecting those parallels doesn't really matter. Haha you could say that the people who made "Zeitgeist" earned themselves credibility by making so much sense.

Falsehoods that make sense are still falsehoods.

No point in continuing this.

That sounds like Jehovah's Witness type talk.

But yes, the Romans DID execute criminals on stakes with cross members. Thats why it was called CRUCifixion. (fixed to a cross). But I agree that it is kind of sick to worship a Roman execution stake.

I think you misunderstood me. Sorry, it was my previous choice of words.
All i am trying to say is that, in my opinion, those "Jesus-someone" parallels you brought up at the first place, do not invalidate the first part of the movie and its conclusion.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

The first 3rd of the movie reveals some interesting coincidences about Christianity and well, you'll see

In recognition of the very interesting movie link you supplied for the forum I will reciporcate with a very interesting book you should read. That way a healthy response to your post can be assured.

The book is in Lit format which can be read by using Microsoft Reader.

The Giza Discovery.lit

How can you prove this? I am sure the people who made this excellent film are educated thoroughly in this area and did many many hours of research on egyptology. What have you done? Searched it on wikipedia and read a few picture books?

Go to a library.

I love this site and at the end of my post you will see why they deserve my respect for their essays/sources.

Ok here more about Horus & Jesus


Comparison of some life events of Horus and Jesus:
Event Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Conception: By a virgin. There is some doubt about this matter By a virgin. 8
Father: Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Only begotten son of Yehovah (in the form of the Holy Spirit).
Mother: Meri. 9 Miriam (a.k.a. Mary).
Foster father: Seb, (Jo-Seph). 9 Joseph.
Foster father's ancestry: Of royal descent. Of royal descent.
Birth location: In a cave. In a cave or stable.
Annunciation: By an angel to Isis, his mother. By an angel to Miriam, his mother. 8
Birth heralded by: The star Sirius, the morning star. An unidentified "star in the East."
Birth date: Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (typically DEC-21). Celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.
Birth announcement: By angels. By angels. 8
Birth witnesses: Shepherds. Shepherds. 8
Later witnesses to birth: Three solar deities. Three wise men. 8
Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus' mother "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." An angel tells Jesus' father to: "Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
Rite of passage ritual: Horus came of age with a special ritual, when his eye was restored. Taken by parents to the temple for what is today called a bar mitzvah ritual.
Age at the ritual: 12 12
Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. No data between ages of 12 & 30.
Baptism location: In the river Eridanus. In the river Jordan.
Age at baptism: 30. 30.
Baptized by: Anup the Baptiser. John the Baptist.
Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Beheaded.
Temptation: Taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain by his arch-rival Sut. Sut (a.k.a. Set) was a precursor for the Hebrew Satan. Taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain by his arch-rival Satan.
Result of temptation: Horus resists temptation. Jesus resists temptation.
Close followers: Twelve disciples. There is some doubt about this matter as well. Twelve disciples.
Activities: Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He "stilled the sea by his power." Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. He ordered the sea with a "Peace, be still" command.
Raising of the dead: Horus raised Osirus, his dead father, from the grave. 10 Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave.
Location where the resurrection miracle occurred: Anu, an Egyptian city where the rites of the death, burial and resurrection of Horus were enacted annually. 10 Hebrews added their prefix for house ('beth") to "Anu" to produce "Beth-Anu" or the "House of Anu." Since "u" and "y" were interchangeable in antiquity, "Bethanu" became "Bethany," the location mentioned in John 11.
Origin of Lazarus' name in the Gospel of John: Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus." 10
Transfigured: On a mountain. On a high mountain.
Key address(es): Sermon on the Mount. Sermon on the Mount; Sermon on the Plain.
Method of death By crucifixion. By crucifixion.
Accompanied by: Two thieves. Two thieves.
Burial In a tomb. In a tomb.
Fate after death: Descended into Hell; resurrected after three days. Descended into Hell; resurrected after about 30 to 38 hours (Friday PM to presumably some time in Sunday AM) covering parts of three days.
Resurrection announced by: Women. Women.
Future: Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium. Reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

horizontal rule
Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:
Characteristics Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Nature" Regarded as a mythical character. Regarded as a 1st century CE human man-god.
Main role: Savior of humanity. Savior of humanity.
Status: God-man. God-man.
Common portrayal: Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus. Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.
Title: KRST, the anointed one. Christ, the anointed one.
Other names: The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower. The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.
Zodiac sign: Associated with Pisces, the fish. Associated with Pisces, the fish.
Main symbols: Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook. Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.

horizontal rule
Comparison of some teachings of Horus and Jesus:
Characteristics Horus Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
Criteria for salvation at the place of judgment: "I have given bread to the hungry man and water to the thirsty man and clothing to the naked person and a boat to the shipwrecked mariner." 11 "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me..." Matthew 25:35-36 (KJV).
"I am" statements
"I am Horus in glory...I am the Lord of Light...I am the victorious one...I am the heir of endless time...I, even I, am he that knoweth the paths of heaven." 12
"I am Horus, the Prince of Eternity."
"I am Horus who stepeth onward through eternity...Eternity and everlastingness is my name."
"I am the possessor of bread in Anu. I have bread in heaven with Ra."



"I am the light of the world....I am the way, the truth and the life."
"Before Abraham was, I am""Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever."
"I am the living bread that came down from heaven."

(From the Gospel of John)
Was Horus born of a virgin?:
Acharya S. quotes priest and author Joseph McCabe's:

Whatever we make of the original myth…Isis seems to have been originally a virgin (or, perhaps, sexless) goddess, and in the later period of Egyptian religion she was again considered a virgin goddess, demanding very strict abstinence from her devotees. It is at this period, apparently, that the birthday of Horus was annually celebrated, about December 25th, in the temples. As both Macrobius and the Christian writer [of the "Paschal Chronicle"] say, a figure of Horus as a baby was laid in a manger, in a scenic reconstruction of a stable, and a statue of Isis was placed beside it. Horus was, in a sense, the Savior of mankind. He was their avenger against the powers of darkness; he was the light of the world. His birth-festival was a real Christmas before Christ. 13,14

Acharya S. mentions a number of other references to Egyptian virgin births in his essay on Horus. 14.

James Frazer's writes in The Golden Bough: 15

The ritual of the nativity, as it appears to have been celebrated in Syria and Egypt, was remarkable. The celebrants retired into certain inner shrines, from which at midnight they issued with a loud cry, "The Virgin has brought forth! The light is waxing!" The Egyptians even represented the new-born sun by the image of an infant which on his birthday, the winter solstice, they brought forth and exhibited to his worshippers. No doubt the Virgin who thus conceived and bore a son on the twenty-fifth of December was the great Oriental goddess whom the Semites called the Heavenly Virgin or simply the Heavenly Goddess." 16

On the other hand, Christian theologian Ward Gasque surveyed twenty contemporary Egyptologists. He asked them about the relationship whether Horus experienced a virgin birth. Ten responded, They all agreed that there is no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin 2


CONTINUED here & their sources link here : <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm</a>


About this site/source/link> and why i refer to it

We believe that:
Religions are very different.
Religions teach very different perceptions of God.
Some religions and their followers have committed terrible atrocities.
All religions cannot be absolutely true.
This site describes both the positive and negative aspects of religions.
This site describes dozens of faith groups, from Asatru to Christianity to Wicca to Zoroastrianism. We cover new religious movements, including dangerous cults. We describe ethical belief systems, like Agnosticism, Atheism and Humanism.
bullet We describe all sides of each controversial topic, from abortion, to physician assisted suicide, including capital punishment, evolution & creation science, and homosexuality.

We define "religious tolerance" differently from some people:
To be tolerant does not require that we accept other beliefs as true.
By religious tolerance, we mean that everyone - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, and others -- should be able to follow their own religious beliefs and practices freely.
Religious diversity is increasing throughout North America. We need to develop a religiously tolerant culture, or the U.S. and Canada are headed for disaster.

OCRT Statement of Belief:

We are a multi-faith group. As of 2007-AUG, we consist of one Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Wiccan and Zen Buddhist. Thus, the OCRT staff lack agreement on almost all theological matters: belief in a supreme being, the nature of God, interpretation of the Bible and other holy texts, whether life after death exists and what form it takes, etc.
About accuracy in our essays:

We will attempt to overcome our biases on each topic that we describe, by explaining each point of view carefully, respectfully and objectively. To this end, we have many of our essays reviewed by persons familiar with the issues who represent all sides of each topic. We encourage readers to Email us about any errors that they find. We do not regard any essay as fixed or complete.

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/statbelief.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/statbelief.htm</a>

References from religioustolerence article:
1. Gerald Massey, "The Natural Genesis," Black Classic Press, (Reissued 1998). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store.
2. Tom Harpur, "The Pagan Christ; Recovering the Lost Light," Thomas Allen, (2004), Page 5. Read reviews or order this book.
3. "Egyptian god Horus, The Louvre, Paris," at: http://ancienthistory.about.com/
4. Information taken from essays linked to "Horus - Egyptian God," at: http://ancienthistory.about.com/
5. Images copied from the web site of the Dark Forest of Ulcron, a supplier of Pagan and New Age items, from Athames to Tarot Cards. See: http://www.ulcron.com/ Images used by permission.
6. Op Cit., Tom Harpur, Page 69.
7. Ibid, Page 85.
8. Ibid, Page 80. Items as seen in the Temple of Luxor, built by Amenhotep III, a pharaoh of the eighteenth dynasty, before 1700 BCE.
9. Ibid, Page 89.
10. Ibid, Pages 128 to 136.
11. Ibid, Page 74. From the confession that humans made in the presence of Horus at the Hall of Maat -- the place of judgment for all.
12. "The Ritual: The Egyptian Book of the Dead."
13. Joseph McCabe, "The Story of Religious Controversy," Stratford Co, (1929). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store
14. Acharya S., "Born of a Virgin on December 25th: Horus, Sun God of Egypt," at: http://www.truthbeknown.com/
15. James George Frazer, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion." Oxford University Press, (1998). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store
16. Les Carney, "Krishna born of a virgin?," at: http://www.lescarney.com/
17. James Patrick Holding, "Comparing Osiris, Horus and Jesus," at: http://tektonics.org/

References from a part of Zeitgeist about Horus taken from http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm :
[S14] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 39-40
[S15] - Septehenses, Clerk De.: Religions. of the Ancient. Greeks, p. 214.
[S16] - Doane, Thomas.: Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, p. 327-328
[S17] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 40
[S18] - Hall, Manly P.: The Secret Teachings of All Ages, 1928. Page 53-56 [Chapter 7: "Isis, the Virgin of the World"]
[S19] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 12-13
[S20] - Jackson, John: Christianity before Christ, AAP, p111-113
[S21] -Walker, Barbara: Women's Encyplodia of Myths and Secrets, p. 748-754
[S22] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Pages 56-61
[S23] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 613-620
[S24] - Massey, Gerald. :Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 614
[S25] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 600-607
[S26] - Doane, Thomas.: Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, p. 256, 273
[S27] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 623-661
[S28] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Page 626
[S29] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Pages 74-75
[S30] - Acharya S.: The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999. Page 115
[S31] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Pages 43-47
[S32] - Acharya S.: Suns of God , Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004. Page 93
[S33] - Churchward, Albert: The Origin & Evolution of Religion, Page 135
[S34] - Bonswick, James: Egyption Belief and Modern Thought, p. 157
[S35] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Page 628-629
[S36] - Doane, Thomas: Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, p. 222- 223
[S37] - Bonswick, James: Egyption Belief and Modern Thought, p. 150-155, 178


Anyone notice a pattern?

Sure do -what's wrong with the picture ? Is it because they use some of the same souces> I dig the site I posted

I have a library at my fingertips>lots of sources (& BS) to choose from

You are right, they do use a lot of the same sources, more so in reality than first appears on the surface.
It is obvious that Zeitgeist is heavily dependent on Gerald Massey, a poet and amateur egyptologist of the 19th century.
The religioustolerence page uses mainly Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. Harpur is dependent on a Alvin Boyd Kuhn, who was heavily influenced by Massey, as well as using Massey directly.

So the whole idea comes back to Massey, who, again, was a poet and amateur egyptologist of the 19th century.


The nice thing about this topic is that most of the people who are cited have been dead for over a century, so their books are oftentimes in Google Books.

This may be so. Does that make him wrong and you more knowledgeable ?

Some people are aware of the very many similarities concerning paganism/ancient faiths/christianity.

National Geographic documentary aired these same theories/speculations recently.It is definitely something to think about.

Why does it disturb you so much ? Just curious .

Maya, Siddhartha's(Buddha) Mother, dreamt that a white elephant entered her side, this was the moment of conception of Siddhartha, and that Siddhartha was born miraculously from her side.

I can see where they got their virgin birth from.

The fact that there hasn't been a living, professional egyptologist that agreed with Massey for at least 40 years makes him wrong.
This is just an excellent topic to encourage critical reading.

The fact that there are also critical differences in terms of wording and the spiritual meaning of those words, gives us an idea that at least christianity is in spiritual opposition to the comparisons made by the film.

The concepts used in the film use the same wording to establish comparison, but if one actually studies the concepts as they were understoood by each of the faiths compared, we get a very different picture.

Interesting ,please show me more (from secular sources.)

I am by no means familiar with egyptology but , the only negative criticques on Massey that I have been able to find have been on Christian/apologist websites

Massey was self-taught but he sure is respected by many. I am not naive to the possibility that he may have made some errors in his translations ?

However the remarkable similarities to the gospels are difficult to dismiss. Disturbing to some I am sure.

Massey is contemporary to Sir James George Frazer who wrote "The Golden Bough", his critique is very similar to Masseys'.

The point of the similarities you mention, stem from exactly what I mentioned above, similar wording does not mean similar or equal meaning.

The theme of the rising and dying Gods is an old one and even in the time of the 1st church fathers, similar critiques were levelled at the church. Many accused the christian church of borrowing heavily from pagan sources and in many ways it is true that this happened. One such example naturally, which was even mentioned in the film, was the birth of Jesus, which is commemorated on the 25th of December. This is a very clear case of borrowing from pagan sources, but it is equally demonstrative that the christian church in doing so did not consider the ramifications of such an act.

As we all know the 25th of December is connected with Isis in that it is on this day that Heru (horus) was born. In the Egyptian calendar it is the 10th Mechir. The Winter Solstice is the day where there is the shortest time between the sun rising and the sun setting. It happens between December 22nd and December 25th. To pagans this meant that the winter was over and spring was coming and they had a festival to celebrate it and worshipped the sun for winning over the darkness of winter. (The Winter Solstice in Scandinavia and some other parts of northern Europe is called Yule and is where we get Yule Logs from.)

The Roman Festival of Saturnalia took place between December 17th and 23rd and honoured the Roman god Saturn. Dies Natalis Solis Invicti means 'birthday of the unconquered sun' and was held on December 25th (when the Romans thought the Winter Soltice took place). As the days grew longer from this day on, it was thought to be the birthday of the sun! The early Christians gave the festival a new meaning - to celebrate the birth of the Son of God 'the unconquered Son'!

Fortunately we know for a fact that this is not the birthday of Jesus since according to recent studies based on biblical sources, the most likely date for the actual birth was sometime in mid-September. There is even a documentary on this available.

If we in turn study most of the details on each of the allegations made by the film, it can be shown that all of them can be demonstrated to be based on false premises or on downright distortions, just as the one I showed above.

There is no excuse that can be given for the church, in its desire to placate the pagan peoples, adopting certain rites and dates that syncronized the church with the pagan world. This fact though doesn not invalidate the gospels or the message contained in them.

http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html

Alternatively, go to a library, specifically where they keep all the books on Egypt or Hellenistic mystery religions and start looking through the bibliographies and endnotes.

I have already read that article by Gasque ( a conservative christian ) critiquing Harpur.

Harpur has some good responses to his critique.

You still can't discount the striking similarities

*seanph* posted some very interesting things about the Hellenistic mystery religions very recently on this forum

Then you read the part where only one of the real egyptologists surveyed had even heard of Massey, Kuhn, or, the other guy Harpur relies on?
Again, go to a library and see how many books will cite Massey. It's a quite simple task and will take very little time.

And yes, I can dismiss the "striking" similarities, because someone in the 19th century made most of the them up.

Which egyptologists ? I can't find any names.

But I read some of these stories myself on Horus/Osiris/Isis just a few minutes ago and i must admit I don't see much similarity. The stories are pretty tasteless actually.

Exuse me while I go vomit.........

For all who have watched "Zeitgeist", I applaud you all for watching it.

.... for the ones who havent, go watch it, its posted all over the internet and its 2 hours long so get a bag of popcorn.

I now know, that we HAVE TO GET CLOSER TO OUR INNER SELVES and not listen to our government!

The US government will, indeed, eventually take over the world as a 1 world government, WITH OUR WILL.
... and is there a way to stop it?

As it states in the last 5 minutes of the film, the US government has said quote
"the only way we will fail is if the people realize the truth within them, how much power they possess with the divine love, and our plan will fail, indefinately"

...you see we are oblivious loop-minded happy machines! We feed off of money that charges interest in the beginning! We, oursleves should realize this on a worldwide scale!

Just watch it, and give me your comments.

The US government can't do jack sh**.

When that huge debt bubble bursts in a decade or two, the whole freakshow is coming down and the US will go the way of the Soviet Union.

Not to mention the other thousand and one problems that country is plagued with.

The emergence of a Chinese super power and it's growing alliance with Russia and other Eastern powers is also creating a formidable resistance to American Imperialism.

They're at the end of the tunnel and there's no going back.

It's just a waiting game now.

I just want to say that there is a very slim chance that the US gov will rule the whole world. There would be a lot of resistance from other nations. Also, the US has progressed so much and is now a major power of the world. By trying to spread the US gov, we would be sacrificing this power for nothing.

BTW, yes I have seen the movie and it seems to be utter nonsense. It is basically a very bad conspiracy theory.