OK lets throw in my proverbial twopennerth!

Student&Alive. I know you have your faith, and that's fine. We all have our beliefs and are entitled to them. However you have to learn that just because you have that faith, you do not KNOW there is a God, you believe there is, but you do not know it is a fact. Believe me, not even John Paul II knows it for a fact. It's his BELIEF.

Many, many leaders of cult religions before have claimed to have known, and have convinced gullible young people that it's true. This is a dangerous thing. September 11th, Waco, etc. They were all caused by people who supposedly knew what their God wanted. Does anyone sane believe they were right? No. You, alas, seem to be falling into a similar path of ruination. Have your beliefs by all means, but retain the open mindedness that we all require in life. If I knew you I'd be very worried about you and your future.

With regard to creationism v evolution, well it's fair to say that something was created; ie. Earth, the universe etc, but to suggest that man just popped up from nowhere completely contradicts what the scientists have proven to us.

The historical accounts from the Old Testament go back millions of years, yet were only written 2,000 years ago. If I told a story to a friend of mine, and it went through five people and came back to me, that story would probably be radically different. If that can happen through five people, over a couple of days, just how the hell does anyone believe a story can be passed through thousands, maybe millions of years without change? The Old Testamant is idealogy, a way of trying to explain something that, at that time, they hadn't got the technology to explain.

Why is it we find dinosaur fossils all the time, but no human ones? Why were there so many species that existed that no longer do, and why are there so many species that exist today, that no fossilised remains have ever been discovered of? Now don't give me this Noah's Ark nonsense, because if he took two of every species on to that ark, then he would have had to have built an ark the size of Canada!

If further proof of evolution needs to be presented, then we need look no further than a few hundred years. The caveman used to eat raw meat; now we don't; as a result the evolutionary process has declared we no longer need wisdom teeth, this is why 50% of people have to have the little buggers out. Some of them don't want to come through, some grow the wrong way. In a thousand years time man will not have wisdom teeth. The same can be said for the human appendix. Again, because we no longereat raw meat, the appendix is no longer useful. With each generation the appendix is getting smaller, and hence the reason that by each generation, more and more people need to have them out.

Take all this on a larger scale and you see that humans, and animals, are genetically programmed to suit their surroundings, and will eventually evolve to what is required.

Evolution is a fact, there is no shadow of a doubt about it, because there are a million and one pieces of evidence to support it.

This does not disprove the existence of God. Far from it, but anyone who believes that evolution was not the way humans got here, is quite simply not being rational.

wait i believe in evolution!!!!!

I just dont think that it disproves the existence of god

Hi everyone, Longt time reader, first time poster. Well, I've had fun reading everyone's opinion from a third person perspective. I just have my two cents to add.

I think that no matter what belief system we follow, it should leave a little room for other possibilities(an open mind basically). That being said, I think this is the only way we as humans can develop our minds into something greater, maybe use that other huge part of our brains. If our beliefs, keep us tied down to a one track mind, then how far can we as an entire race move on.

I can't wait for the day we meet an alien civilization and ask them how they think this all happened

despondant
lol

Just to go back to the Bigfoot dig a while back...I think using my belief in Bigfoot against me by claiming there's less evidence for it than there is for god just shows you don't know much about Bigfoot

Bigfoot is a physical being, vastly corroborated by eye witness accounts that show similarities to the behaviour of other greater apes; photo graphs and videos exist (although granted, many of them are extremely dubious), hair samples, footprints, poop samples...one expedition even turned up an ass print i.e. actual physical evidence.

God's evidence, for the moment, consists of a book that cannot be verified in the slightest. I knew that argument would eventually come up, so I was ready for it

Now, back to topic...

To be honest, UFOs are far more flimsy than Bigfoot...there are no parallels to compare UFO activity to, or the reports on the behaviour of their occupants. You can't, for example, compare the reported actions of an alien to something similar in the animal kingdom and see a pattern that would support the story you were hearing.

Science isn't so much a 'don't go there' area as far as Bigfoot is concerned...it's the mysticism and folk tails that are usually treated with scepticism. True, some scientific circles scoff at Bigfoot, but it's a far more widespread believe among the scientific community than the existence of UFOs

Another element of the theory is plausibility…the idea of a species of greater ape living in north America, given the historical migration of certain animals that crossed into the continent along with mankind, isn’t too far fetched when all things are considered. Given serious thought, it’s not too outlandish a proposal; it’s only when the “missing link” or “mystical being that can turn itself invisible at will” talk starts flowing that most people will sigh and ignore the argument

But that’s off topic…there are plenty of Bigfoot threads to discuss that sorta thing.

o_o;; i must resist the urge to argue with seraphina.....must.....not.....go.....off....topic >_<;;

Cant hold it in any longer

Crosses have been carved
these are said to be images of the cross the mesiah was crucified on
ancient african tribes report one similiar to Jesus preaching to them
God is all to real
Jesus never asked payment for his works...
Jesus Did miracles....
God IS Active today.... Like I said look around... God makes me smile... he is a pretty cool guy and if not for him none of us would be here today... whenever something goes wrong in your life dont try to blame it on God... its your own fault..

I leave this topic for one day and now your talking about bigfoot , aliens , and everything else including god . This thread has become the ultimate argue about everything thread I guess , all from the original story of some kid asking his baby sibling about god .

I'm going to see where this goes and post a certain thing I have in mind soon depending on where this goes ..........

Depends on whether or not you consider supernatural occurances as scientific proof .

i just want to know how all of you atheists out there intend to convince christians that there is no god.
They were told long long ago in sunday school that the arguements you are using now would be used against them and that you non - believers are going to hell.
Some of these people were raised on this belief. To them, it is the pristine truth.
Trying to disprove god to a christian is like trying to say "my momma got killed by luke skywalker" in pig-latin french, backwards.

I fail to see the point in all this . Someone enlighten Moe.

*cough*
miracles are not proof of god, if so, they are also proof of allah, buddah, etc etc
hell, i'm sure many an athiest has been subjected to a 'miracle'.

Thats actually a slightly rude assumption moe . I wasn't raised as a christian nor did I go to sunday school . I simply chose the religion because I liked the morals taught in the book and although I buy the theory of evolution I dont buy the theory of Atheism ( Big bang , evolution explains all life , ect ) mainly because scientists are constantly fumbling with new theories of how life got started , it was proteins coming together ... then they discovered that proteins in cells must have come after wards , to forming in limestone , to forming in iron pyrite ( fools gold ) , and I am not sure if there is a new theory or not after that . The theory of atheism as I call it is even more subject to change then religion ... plus science constantly denies other supernatural occurances such as ghosts and psychic phenomena which by personall experience I know to be true .

In reality , science is not absolute fact ... it is what you know to the best of your abilities at that time . In my opinion , the idea the atheist theories use actually led to life as we know it is something that is impossible , the coming of the universe is just something we as humans cant scientifically explain .

On top of this , for atheism to work you must assume every element such as H , O , S , NH , ect was in existance by itself and that molecules and atoms always were . You must also assume the rock from the big bang was their to begin with . I am not trying to convert anyone here , I know non of you will , I am simply trying to show you that you too ... no matter what ... happen to be using faith .

Bathory, do you mind if I ask you what you believe will happen to you once you die?

the same as what it was like before i was born.

Are you stating that half of you will go back to your mother "egg" and half to your father’s sperm? Lol

You'll forgive me for not retyping the question.

you want my reasoning behind it?
ok, well first i was implying a simple state of non existence:)
why? because i don't believe in any gods, or an afterlife, once the lights go out, they go out.

even if I lost all faith in christianity I would still believe in an afterlife , living in a haunted house for 6 years does stuff to you ...

I see death as emerging into the next step in life, pretty much like when a caterpillar emerges from its chrysllis(sp?). I believe the conciousness lives on, in a non-corporeal way, and the physical body is but a vessel. If you get any of that o_o;;

it doesn't matter what we argue
the fact of the matter is that creationism will always be wrong
even if evolution was wrong (for arguements sake), creationism is still junk science.
This has nothing to do with God, and trying to change peoples opinions of god etc, its simple facts.

Bathory. You know this arguement will never be resolved. So why continue to make inflamatory statements? Do your comments help you to persuade others to your point of thinking any more? Or are they simply a means to inflate your ego at the expense of others? As I recall Mark Twaine was close to an atheist; but he learned how to season his arguments with enough humor so thet even though the person he was arguing with would not agree with him; they were still able to disagrre without being at each-others throats.

Here we go -

atheism

\A"the*ism\, n. [Cf. F. ath['e]isme. See Atheist.] 1. The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall.

Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded. --Shipley.

2. Godlessness.


and -

Chris·tian ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krschn)
adj.
Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

n.
One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.


Now, atheism is not the belief in big bang etc - that's a scientific theory (THEORY - that means no-one knows for sure). Put simply, atheism says there aint no god, Christianity says there is.

and for anyone else - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=agnostic
There's the one for agnostic - you wonder if there is a god, and doubt the truth of religion.


Just thought I'd define where some of us are coming from - I think I'm an agnostic as you can never really know for sure - faith is not knowing, it is trusting. Just because I trust that you'll not lie to me, doesn't mean you wont.



Potholer

Crikey this is a long thread.
Just had to air my views.....

Much like myself, I think a lot of people have a very negative view of institutionalised religions in general. Sadly, as with any organisation involving more than about three people and/or money there will always be corruption. (see sports, politics etc.)
My family also have a very anti religious stance, and I was brought up this way, yet I DO believe in God.
I think the confusion within the argument is not WHETHER God exists, but WHAT God is.
Granted I have never set foot in a church in my life, nor would I want to label myself a particular religion, yet I sometimes pray to someone under my breath, and am capable of carrying out selfless acts in the name of what is right.
In other words, I KNOW that a 'God' exists, because firemen will enter a burning building to rescue people, because animal sanctuaries are set up, because we give money to homeless people.
For me the question is if God is an actual tangible being, or is God a collective good will that is passed between humans?
This would make more sense of religion, not arguing about whether who did what with whom two thousand years ago, but the simple fact that we need to be nice to one another.
Once again, WE NEED TO BE NICE TO ONE ANOTHER.
Supporting a holy war is not being religious, but sharing with someone is. Seems simple, doesnt it? Yet rarely do any religious arguments actually discuss BEING NICE.
"Catholicism is about worshipping these people" "Protestantism is about worshipping the one God" But neither religions are about throwing grenades at someones funeral?!?
Sorry, I'm getting carried away here, so to summarise: If you are nice to people, they will in turn be nice to others, and through this collective consciousness there will be a God. Much the same as when a whole bunch of people starve there is a famine, when a whole bunch of people care for each other, there is a God. And if enough people believe in something, it Exists.
So please can we stop arguing over what his name is and does he wear socks or does he like tenpin bowling?

BLIMEY you Americans and you're 10 hours in front It mashes my head i started this thread off and we've gone from a story of my cousin to ufo's to big foot to the dictionary meaning of atheism and christianity as i said i started this off and the Question DOES GOD EXIST the name of this post was rhetorical i just wanted people to read the story and think about what it means oh and while i'm here i'll shove my 10pence worth in

I'm an Atheist the idea of a god or jesus(THE CAR SALESMAN) is ludicrous he thought one day i'll make a planet/solar system/galaxy/universe/people to fill it/animals to eat/different sexes to mate/a hell to tempt the poor buggers/a son to give to them to teach and to kill it's too far fetched

and i don't care how omnipatant he is or how '' we have to learn from life ourselves'' he wants us to live if ANYTHING can sit back while a newborn baby dies through no fault of its own or wars are fought and millions die species become extinct and it has the power to stop it but does nothing that is wrong in anyone's book and people who follow the teachings of someone cannot selectively take pieces from the bible as right or wrong take it all or leave it all

lol...

Please, please, let's not start compairing a being who was presented physical evidence dating back generations, to the world's most famous fictional character

As Bathory pointed out, compairing the bible to eyewitness accounts of sasquatch is hardly a balanced approach...one is a collection or reports from people who believe was they saw, and the other is a biased source designed to control. With no physical evidence of back up its claims, the bible is nothing but a mythology.

The old testament is even acklowledged as a mythology by a majority of modern thinking christians I don't believe in Pixies, dragons, unicorns, god and the like...I believe in bigfoot because it is an actual biological possibility, and, unlike the existance of god, it's actually feasible in practice.

So please, if you're going to be so ignorant to call my a hypocryte for believing in bigfoot, I warn you to remember my belief in it is quite defensible, after a great deal of time and research...and there is far great evidence for its existance than there is for the object of any given religion, which for the most part, are so full of holes it's difficult to imagine why they're still in existance today.

OK I believe we have fully summerized our respective beliefs. We have Zoroastrianism, Atheism, Agnoticism,and Christianity ( By this I mean both Catholic and Protestant). We have all said our piece and come to the point of all pretty much saying "Here I Stand!". Unless there are any new thoughts prehapes it would be best to call this thread unwinding? At least for the part of trying to actively disprove each others beliefs.

[Edit] Post removed

What an excellent idea CW.... let just hope that ths will be the end of it!

lol... seems like at the start of this someone posted something about us all rambling and no one really accomplishing anything They were correct... and my strong faith in God is all because of spiritual encounters... it is easy for me to understand not everyone has these (Lucky B*st*rds) and everyone should be allowed to make there own decision... and comparing bigfoot to God is not really a fair argument Althought I do believe in bigfoot he is just another ape .... anyway case closed this argument acomplished nothing (Aside from me thinking im the only Christian Here (Im also a nutjob incase you curious (Heance the reason no one trusts me with matches ) Anyway nice talking to you all
-In The Dark The Light Is Born

and still we never got a single shred of non-dodgy creationist evidence..

why do you even bother

creationism and evolution can be proven/disproven..this has nothing to do with god etc its about the system he used to create..i can believe i'm still trying to explain it 8 or so pages on. This is usually the reason i end up repeating myself a whole damn lot.