Followers of Christ do not insult people.



Followers of Christ do not make accusations when they too have faults.



Followers of Christ do not draw attention to their worship or prayer, but do it in secret.

So, on just those 3 terms alone;

Has anyone ever seen a follower of Christ?

It seems to me that by your definition, everyone who has every told me they are christian are not. As I said, it's by your definition that I'm drawing this conclusion (and I think that's why you put this thread up).

Seen a lot of bad ones, and have heard of good ones.



No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

Is it not true, that so many Christians simply ignore these teachings they supposedly are so fond of? Or do millions of Christians not pray together every sunday morning.. And do they refrain from making accusations or insults, or feeling angry at people they don't like? Do they regularly turn the other cheek? If that's a common happening, please tell me, because I have seen much to the contrary. To be devoted to ones teaching means to give your best to emulate them, and that is NOT what any normal Christian does. I'm not saying as a human you shouldn't be able to accuse people, although I do think that before Christians tell people about their faults such as homosesxuality or immorality and whatnot they should maybe examine their own, even with something so close to them as their religion.

Well, it seems like people like to pick and choose what to follow and then back up their choices by various reasons. I never got it either. I get a finger wagged in my face whenever I talk about religion to a christian because I'm not "saved" (and the topic of religion is brought up by them, not me, because I don't like to push what I believe on people). I work at night and I got woke up the other day around 10 in the morning (peak sleeping hours for me) by a knock at my door. Half asleep, I answered it, and found myself face to face with two well dressed christians telling me how they would like to tell me about the healing power of their lord. Quite irrate, I told them no one was home, I'm sorry, and then shut the door and went back to bed. When I woke up later, I found a packet of info stuck under my door. (Granted I was rude, but I was tired, so I tend to be rude when I'm really tired....but I couldn't believe after i shut the door, they still thought they could try to save me by leaving a packet behind). That packet was interesting though. A little comic book about how jesus died for my sins was fun, as well as the packet that explained that the reason why everything was going wrong in my life (which I wasn't aware it was), was because I hadn't excepted jesus and when I did, all my problems would be solved.

Now, after reading your thread (which I like a lot), I really wish they were true christians.

Yep, that sums it up well. That is what it comes down too, people don't admit it but we are selfish, petty, arrogant beings. We pick and choose which parts of our belief system we think will most benefit us. Then we rationalize our choosing so we don't feel as if we cheated the system.

I know I have insulted people in the past. It is not something I am proud of and when I have lost my temper and done so, I have always sought to apologise, because I should not. At the best, I try not to insult people. Most of the time, I can succeed.

The whole idea of casting the first stone is in reference to condemnation. Judging in the Bible is more akin to condemnation. Yet Christians are also called to uphold what is right and true. It comes in the motives. If I seek to counsel a person in the way that they are straying from the path of God, that is not judgement. That is correction and training.

That said, like insulting people, I am sure I have condemned a person before, whether in thought or action. I try not to, and I do seek forgiveness from people when I do.

What is the motive for prayer? This passage you quoted is referring directly to the Pharisees habit of making lengthy prayers in public for the sole purpose of being seen and heard and called righteous. It is not necessarily true then that this is a wholesale condemnation of public prayer. It goes to motive. Why would you pray at church? Would it be to make yourself look good in front of everyone else? Possibly, in which case it is a case that they are doing the wrong thing. But they might honestly be sharing God's love with each other and bringing everything to God in prayer. it's all about the motives. When a Christian says on this forum "Don't worry, I'll pray for you" - is that a true desire for prayer, or are they trying to look pious? Only God knows.

Yes, I have. I have seen people earnestly and wholeheartedly try to follow God. And I have seen those same Chrisitans stumble and commit these sins. I have done the same. No Christian is perfect. In fact, as Christians we freely admit that we stumble. We don't claim taht we never sin. We don't claim that everything that Jesus commands we will always do. If we could, then we would have no need for Jesus' death.

In short, I have met many Christians, based on these criteria. Maybe not perfect Christians, but Christians still.

To be fair, I don't see that many Christians praying on street corners. Over and above that...everyone is human.

The Christian message is an ideal, one that the majority of Christians aspire to live up to, but are fully aware of the difficulty of doing so. Thankfully, forgiveness is also a central theme within the Christian religion.

I wasn't trying to remark upon the actual faithfulness inside the religion, that makes no difference to me, I meant to say... that before Christians can fairly prosthelytize or condemn or accuse, they have a lot of things they can find wrong in themselves. A very large number of Christians love to do those things (And when I say "Christians", I mean fundamentalist/evangelical, not moderates).. Such as remarking upon how sorry everyone will be when they realize they're going to hell, or talking about how immoral gay people are, or saying only fools support evolution, and so on.

Not sure I get your point. You are anti-religious, and yet now you attack people for not being religious enough?
Wouldn't it be in your interest if they were LESS religious?

Would you know if someone were a follower of Christ, by that I mean they would not go around telling all and sundry that they did not insult people, make accusations not draw attention to themselves, they would just be doing it and I suspect they would not even be aware that they were doing all these things, they would not be thinking about it, they would just be doing those things naturally.

The vast majority of people will break at least one, if not all, of the three rules you have stated above on a regular basis, if they did not, they would be Christlike themselves.

There are many Christlike people on earth.
The difficulty is not in being Christlike.
The difficulty is in being Christlike without giving up anything you already own or are used to.

If I truly believed in Jesus and God and heaven - don't you think I could stop insulting people and stop judging people and stop "casting the first stone"?

The reason people don't live in a Christlike manner is because christianity today allows them to live exactly like non-christians and get away with it.

How hard is it really to follow those rules?

Many christians simply refuse to make any serious lifestyle changes. Why? Because it is inconvienent. Because churches have learned that if they bum their congregation out by making them feel guilty for their sloppy lifestyles then they will stop showing up to church and the donations will dry up.

Living in a Christlike manner is NOT THAT HARD. You only have to decide to do it. If that means quitting your high-paying job for a defense contractor (ahem....) because you don't feel that working there is productive then QUIT YOUR JOB.

This is all about laziness and cherry-picking those parts of the bible that support your own un-Christlike lifestyle.

Would I love to live in a world populated by Christlike beings? HELL YES.
But it doesn't take churches, religion, donations, prayer OR Christianity to have this.

I think that a forum that this many people visit is exactly the same thing....

Well first of all, I am not religious, I do not go to Church and I am not Christlike, I do not study the Bible, I am not lazy and I do not cherry-pick.

Do you consider yourself Christlike? If you do not, then disregard the part below, but if you do:

In your own posting you have already broken two of the rules, one is judgement on others and the other is insulting others.

You may not think you have done this but you have. Therefore, yes it is VERY hard, if it wasn't, instead of the majority being unChristlike, they would be Christlike.

It is easy to jump to conclusions and it is easy to judge others, you are correct that when doing this it illuminates the person who judges' unChristlike lifestyle.

I am not religious either. I am certainly not Christlike. I am just eternally amused by excuses "christians" give for not living in a Christlike manner.

Ahh apologies for my post in reply to yours then

I agree about the cherry-picking bit by the way, IMO to be Christlike, there can be no cherry-picking, it is all of it, forgiveness, turning the other cheek, etc etc.

A long and arduous road for sure.

It isn't that long and arduous. Until very recently many people lived that way. Think about it - if you are insulted just don't reply. Don't speak out about anyone unless asked a specific question about that person and then answer honestly and without passive-aggresive BS.

This is the thing that makes me so utterly entertained by most so-called Xstians. The sheer hypocrisy that exists.

Since when did "live this way" become "Live however you want but make sure you remember to ask to be forgiven before you die"?

It is like they all got together and agreed that they can all live as sinfully as they want as long as, in public, they disseminated Xstian propaganda.

IT IS NOT HARD TO LIVE IN A CHRISTLIKE MANNER.

You just have to change your lifestyle. And that is what so many of them won't do.

Hypocrites. Damned (according to their religion) hypocrites.

I wish it was as easy as you make it out to be RepoMan. I truly do.

Yeah, trying to live in a Christlike manner involves changing your lifestyle. And it's true that many won't do it because it's uncomfortable, which is pretty f***** sad once you think about it. Although to be honest, I don't see that remark about the churches here in Chile. Can't tell about the States though.
Anyway, the point is:

Is it possible to live in a Christlike manner? YES.
Is it easy? NO.

Why? Because we are human. I.E. we f*** up. We might have certain stereotypes about certains groups of people (take a pick: Latins- I hope you don't or else you'll deal with my roundhouse kick -, gays, blablabla)- not neccesarily fueled by religion-, or maybe we've been raised in a family where it's common that the parents judge people or insult them constantly and the children grow up thinking it's normal, a lot of things. You gotta fight those "stereotypes", and that's the hard part! You're bound to trip up sometimes, moments where the first thought is "WHAT THE F*** WAS I THINKING?!". And even when you've given a 180 turn in your life, it might happen again, because we are human, we make mistakes, so it's a lifelong fight, easier on certain stages, but still lifelong. I'm doing that fight too, and not with just the Christlike life (my career for example, but that's for another post ).

Besides, making a change in your lifestyle it's not as easy as just waking up in the morning and saying "you know, I'm gonna make a change for good" and it will come automatically on its own. It takes more than that.
First, the will. You can't do any change if you don't SERIOUSLY want to. I think we can agree pretty much on that.
Second, the willingness to pay the price. It might involve, I dunno, for using your example of the job, knowing that it will involve God-knows how time unemployed, being looked down upon, etc.
Third, doing it.
And fourth, getting back on your feet and trying as hard as you can not to do it again. Probably the most important point after having the will.


Well, guess that's it. It ain't easy, but it's not an excuse for not taking.
And is it worthy? Ooooh yeah!

I think it's amazing that God doesn't expect us to live perfect Christ-like lives, and yet those who want to criticize Christianity do.

I think He wants us to live Christ-like lives, but knows that we can fail. That's where Grace and Forgiveness, for me, kick in
Thanks for reminding me that. Sometimes it's easy to forget it

Jesus said it better when He said

"Why do you notice the sliver in your friend’s eye, but overlook the timber in your own? How can you say to your friend, "Let me get the sliver out of your eye, when there is that timber in your own? You phony, first take the timber out of your own eye and then you’ll see well enough to remove the sliver from your friends eye."
If you think He did not know that we would fail to follow His direction perfectly, you have misunderstood. He knew we'd screw it up, and He made sure to address it beforehand.
That being said, there is a big dif between saying a thing is right or wrong, and saying a person is evil/good or going to hell/heaven for doing right/wrong things. Judgement includes conviction and sentencing. Labeling something right or wrong is not the same thing.

I beg to differ. Living a Christ-like life is not easy. It means being humble enough not to lash out when people persecute us. It means being willing to put the needs of total strangers before our own (hey, you want that new computer - what if a stranger needs a bed for the night, which takes precedence?) I'm not saying I am a perfect Christian - there is no such thing as a perfect Christian. But it is by no means "easy" to live for Christ.

However, you are correct that for many Chrsitians it has become a case of living however they want, as long as it involves a little confession somewhere along the lines. This is not Christianity. It is what some people do, but it should not be so.

You don't get it...you see, I myself am anti-Christian, and while it is more so in my interest to see Christians not praying to Jesus..that's not the point. I don't actively go around disproving Christians because I have no need to take away someone else's faith, no matter how vain or blasphemous it may be. However, when I am berated and pestered, persecuted and proselytized, I get ANGRY. Very very angry. And I tell Christians before they speak to me, that if they get on my nerves (saying things like "OH MY GOD YOUR F***ing going to HELL!") I will disprove their religion to them with every verse in my arsenal, and take away as much as their faith as possible. I don't mind Christians when they leave me alone, but when they come to me and say "You don't believe in Jesus...your going to hell". I will make it a point every time I see them after that, to make sure they follow Christ. And if they say "I can't do that" I'll say "Well then your going to hell!" I don't like to be bothered by such things, and when I am, I get pissed. I don't want to disprove their religion because I don't want to take their faith, but when their religion encroaches on me, I will tear apart all parts of their beliefs leaving them confused and sorrowful to learn of the fallacy of their God-man, his lies, and his vain promises.

The question was to the original poster

Yes I know, and our answers would be similar in concept.

well thanks for your input, but that still doesn't answer my question, which was for KBA, you can't really speak for him

I think it is more than that, IamsSon. I have personally been told that I am going to Hell since I didn't go to church by a woman that would come into the restaurant I worked in every Sunday morning and who critisized EVERY person she could, whether it was what they wore or that they didn't know the words to songs. This woman had something nasty to say about every person. I told her that God knew what was in here (pointing to my heart) and that HE would know what was in there, and if there was a heaven, I was sure I would be allowed in, was she sure? Yet, I have met other Christians who were the kindest hearted people I have ever met. They truly tried to never say anything wrong about another person, aying it was not their place to judge. I guess what I am trying to say is that there are the few who are SO righteous and so sure that just because they go to church and say the right words, they are better than those of us who do not go to church. Those are the ones who ruin it for the true Christians, and I find that very sad, because those are the ones who will be pointed out every time by Non-Christians, and do you really blame them?

"you tell Christians before they speak to you"???...you don't even know how many Christians you come into contact with daily, because if you did you would be saying that all day long.

All I see here are a bunch of paranoid individuals that aren't secure enough in themselves and their non beliefs to let other people live their lives they way they see fit...all the while crying that Christians are imposing their lifestyles on them.

Followers of Christ are not Christ, they are just followers. They try and they do the best they can. They come in all shapes and sizes, all different colors, and all different personalities. But in their heart they are doing what they think they should, trying to make this world a better place.

So to answer your question yes, yes I have.

I'm jumping in early without reading a lot. This quote is from KBA early in the thread.

I don't even see a lot of fundies saying or doing the things you claim they do. What I see are a few making claims that they represent the many. I see this as disingenuous at best.

I say that meaning if a Christian wants to evangelize me, I warn them before hand. I don't just go around saying it to Christians. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

In concerning believers or non-believers I really have never seen any difference in behaviors.

Whether it's sexual behavior, lying,stealing ,helping, empathy whaTEVER.

But what irks me the most is seeing THE PEOPLE THAT preach how moral they are and preaching/warning others are doing all the stuff they condemn WAY TOO OFTEN.

If you don't live it then keep your damn cake hole shut !!!

Way,way too many hypocrits out there. It can't all be coincidence.

I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
But heaven knows I'm miserable now

In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye ?

perhaps give up drinking?

I'll do some heavy drinkin about that one

I think most of the christians/believers are pretty sincere on this forum . Otherwise they wouldn't be on this forum -just my assumption.
But the hypocrisy has been a real turn off (in my personal life through observation).

I have lived in 17 cities in my life and had some (not so) amusing experiences with "so -called" christians. Very many of them have been absolutely terrible and that is not an understatement.
I do know some true angels though & they are very special.

It's always disappointing when people are hypocrites but for some reason we get "really" angry at religious hypocrites.

The reasons are easy to figure out.