We probably all read of Tom's "alien shelter" article. I took off my headphones at a stoplight & it was red. I was in my stepdad's car, he was listening to his morning talk radio. And they where talking about the shelter. Tom was corncered about Suri from "alien attack." I said that they're going to end up like "Heaven's Door" or whatever. (You know the cult from the 90's that killed themselves. I kinda doubt it though.) But Scienology is sounding more of a cult than a religion. Am I the only one who thinks this? My stepdad even agrees with me, he nodded his head.

Scientology.................spelling, lol

I think it's a religion... To be respected just like any other religion out there.

Religions are really just cults that grew in followers.

hubbard was a sci-fi writer and took lsd and dreamed this whole thing up, rather like the bible i can imagine jesus eating some cactus and ending up in a cave tripping for 7 days and nights and writing the bible probably why it dont make.
God was probably in his experience just a funny shape cloud in the sky.
alright im going to hell, even though it doesn't exist

. Ron Hubbard began making statements to the effect that any writer who really wished to make money should stop writing and develop [a] religion, or devise a new psychiatric method. Harlan Ellison's version (Time Out, UK, No 332) is that Hubbard is reputed to have told [John W.] Campbell, "I'm going to invent a religion that's going to make me a fortune. I'm tired of writing for a penny a word." Sam Moskowitz, a chronicler of science fiction, has reported that he himself heard Hubbard make a similar statement, but there is no first-hand evidence."





This is the religion he created Scientology


fullywired

IMO, i think it started out as a 'cult' that later became a 'religion'...Ya know, to give it that religious/spiritual and tax free appearance...



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Its simple a cult....whith enough followers, it would be considered by somes has a religion in the future, but for the moment, its a money-making machine for a few.

A "cult"is a way of professing religion. That requires an existing religion from which a different form of worship splits up from:

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

A religion is a unique set of believes:

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Therefore the correct definition of Scientology would be religion.

That does not mean that I am in favor of organized religion.

Either way, it is pretty hoky. I also thought that it was convenient that the guy who had tried to extort money out of Cruise committed suicide. Very convenient.

Having known a young man who was washed and manipulated into joining, I agree that this is more a cult than religion. I haven't heard of any "proper" religion that gives you a personality exam before they let you cross their doorstep. He was told all sorts of horrible things were wrong with him and that he needed classes to overcome them. So he took the classes and joined the lot of window lickers. One of the stipulations included in his "contract" (again, never heard of!) with them was that he agreed to allow them to take 40% of his salary. (Which might I add was taken from net and wired to the bank, no differently than if he were paying child support). That next year he was just an awful mess. Uncontrolled wobblers and name calling- They actually taught him new speech and vocabulary; words to describe people not involved with their movement. When I argued that he was changing and it frightened me, he called me a "DB" which I found out after researching, meant "degraded being". Anyone who refuses their philosophy is a "DB". These are just a few examples. Long story made short, he finally awoke and found his senses. Several remaining members harassed him for months after he left and he had to buy out the remaining time on his contract for that 40% he owed (which I believe he signed for 2 years?).

See, that right there, them wanting 40% of my monthly wages, that would be a huge signal to me that they are a crock. Poor guy, I hope your friend is OK now. I have heard really scary stories about people having death threats and all kinds of harassment when they leave the "church" of scientology.

Thank you! He is doing better now, nearly 4 years after the fact. I am so glad that you have heard about the awful things that they do to people who leave. A lot of people don't believe me when I share that with them. My friend literally feared for his safety and had to both find a new job and move to a different towne. And actually that only worked for a few months until they tracked him down. Those members network like mad!! It wasn't until he got the authorities involved that they backed off of him. Very scary and sad!

There was actually a man from Vancouver her in BC that reproted everything to the papers a few years back. He said that he was in hiding, for fear of his life. The scientologists tried to sue him with a gag order. He told everything that he could about them. It was really scary. It is too bad that they prey on people who are looking for direction.

Poor guy! How sad for him to be living in fear... Preying on vunerable and impressionable people is wicked.

IT is, that is why I have a very low opinion on the scientologists. I would love to see that 'religion' fall apart.

While the dictionary definition differs on what a cult is.. I think the way most people interpret it now is closer to the definition below (quoted from the article "On Using the Term 'Cult'")



Actually Scientology is considered an cult in a number of countries (I'm thinking Germany and France, but there are others) and it's activities are supposedly prohibited.

Of course if you want to look up more anti Scientologist stuff.. you can check out Operation Clambake

Probably only in their propaganda. In Germany Scientology is not forbidden but not recognized as a religion, only as a commercial enterprise because judges ruled that it neither brought a benefit to society as a whole nor was selling services consistent with the function of a religion.

In France they are "on trial"for activities inconsistent with a religion (i.e. selling a product).

The only places where it is right out outlawed right now is some Australian states, Belgium and Greece (for selling psychological procedures without a license).

The whole thing is horrifying brainwashing pyramid scheme. Seeing that it requires payment to partake in, and advance through it, I simply don't understand how it can get tax exempt status under US Law. The fact that it was founded by a drug addled, compulsive liar who suffered paranoid delusions and followed nothing he himself said would be enough, one would think, for people to see how much of joke the whole thing really is.

I agree it's not outlawed outright in those countries, but it is classified as 'cult' or a group requiring government monitoring.

In Germany the government forbade Tom Cruise from being able to access certain locations during a movie shoot due to him being a scientologist.

I'm sure part of it is because he is a high profile scientologist, but they can't exactly screen everyone to see their religion.

Actually, according to apress release (I put it in another thread quite a while ago) it wasn't because he was scientologist, it was because he wanted access to high security areas that no one is allowed unless they have the proper clearance.

While the press are not above mistakes.. this Reuter's article seems to be pretty straight forward that it was Tom Cruise being a scientologist that was the issue, not his security clearance.

Reuters Article

In particular:


And in the end, the Defense ministry reversed it's stance and allowed the filming.

Old news, the Germans just wanted to make sure that the script would not deface their biggest Resistance-against-Hitler hero. After seeing the script they were authorized to shoot in the Bendlerblock. The Bild Zeitung (Germany's equivalent to the National Enquirer) naturally had headlines saying that it was about Scientology ... which was far from true.

"Degraded being" indeed, they want to look at themselves before they go on about anyone else.

I am glad the young man is now okay (I am presuming he is anyway), as for their "contracts" they are worthy of a big bonfire and nothing else. What a bunch of cranks

Err.. Reuters is equivalent to the National Enquirer? It was picked up pretty widely, with quotes from government officials..

http://www.hollywood.com/news/Cruise_Gets_...erblock/4835049

If you know German I suggest to read the article of Der Spiegel on the subject, while some tabloids claimed that it was about Scientology, and this has been evidently picked up by serious agencies because some catholic right winger could not resist being in the news, Jung's decision shows it was not about Scientology.

The only articles I could find on the topic in Der Spiegel were copies of the Reuters feeds, though if you have a link that would be great. As far as I can understand from the officials quote it sounded like they felt a scientologist playing a national hero would lessen the dignity of the site..

From the article you linked


From the reuters


I guess the other thing to note.. in the end it turned out the military didn't control the site.. the Finance Ministry did

Ok after spending more time than I probably should have bouncing between German and English sources.. I found an article clarifying the statements, and how the whole scientologist slant got associated with it.. probably would have been faster if I could have tracked down the press release glorybebe said he posted.

I tried to look for a link, all I have is an article in the Panorama section of the print magazine.

If we go off-topic, German politics are not straightforward, even if Kammerbauer is not a official member of the CSU (Christian Social Union) he has been their mouthpiece in the Defense Ministry in the past. The CSU is Germany's Catholic equivalent to politicians pushing the Born-Again-Movement in the States, and mostly only relevant in Bavaria (which is 90% Catholic and the CSU gets in between 50 and 60 percent of the votes). They are against everything and everybody not catholic. They even make their annual MP meetings in a convent (no joke). And if you want to be anybody in that party you better go with them to the annual Tuntenhausen peregrination (no joke either).

I have made a rundown of all who were saying: "No, because Cruise is a Scientologist" and all you can really quote are CSU members. I guess Scientology just makes a better headline than piety.

Actually they're not, unfortunately. I did some research a while ago, after reading about the REALLY serious stuff that Scientology is guilty of (kidnapping, espionage, treason, blackmail, theft, harrassment, sexual abuse, robbery(B&E) and Murder) (those are the successful convictions) and discovered there is a long history of state government legal struggles with the COS. They tried in the 70's to completely outlwa them, and even succeeded for a couple of years, but now they're back in all states, still trying to get the fabled TAX FREE THRESHHOLD!! Which I believe is the same thing they are trying in Deutchland.

she

tom cruise thread on the making of the movie.

=X my bad

LOL

Thank you for the info.

To what they were saying on the radio. It just sounded like they where becoming a cult. That's all.

Even more so in Germany, it seems to be that Hubbard himself gad a knack about that country, claiming that Germany is the key to Europe. But the way I see it, fat chance.

Scientology is a load of crap just like every other religion/cult bottom line.

That being said I don't hold it against people that they believe what they want, so why hold it against Tom Cruise? Sure the guy is crazy just like every other religious fundy out there but he has made a few decent movies.

Which is, after all, what he should be judged for as an actor.

i thought battlefield earth was a fun book. puzzled how someone could come up with a religion or cult based on it., unless(as some previous poster claimed) hubbard was on acid.

I though it was an ok movie too... As Hubbard's son once put it the list of drugs his father didn't try was shorter then the list one he did.

i've not seen the movie yet. can't think why not. maybe a longer list leads to writing better books?

Hubbard was not a bad Science Fiction writer either, not on the top but neither on the bottom (too bad most of his titles are not available anymore since he became a "prophet"), it seems he started to believe the fiction he was writing.

I take back what i said earlier, Scientology wasn't a cult or even a religion today imo, that was 'almost' an insult to both occultism and religion in general.
This organization is nothing more bunch of criminal psychotics run by men dressed in suits hell bent on brain washing/controlling it's followers...

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L Ron Hubbard's son said, in his 1983 interview with Penthouse Magazine:
"L Ron Hubbard Jr ( Ron DeWolf ): I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology --and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works. Also, you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan."

Scientology exposed (Germany)...(check out the short video also)

It is. They're a bunch of whacks! I can't believe are part of their group/religion!

True. The last (and probably first) movie I saw was "War of The Worlds." It was okay.

Well, this may sound "racists" but most writers are either alcoholics or addicted to something.....

LOL! Sounds like the Catholic Church. I'll bet they had fewer followers than hubbard after only 45 years!

Very true. I am an aspiring writer and I am addicted to chocolate. Hee Hee

I say its a cult