Most people believe that the fall of mankind was something that affected the universe. Most christians still dogmatically believe in the existence of what is called "Original sin". This particular belief, was made popular by St. Augustine, who didn't bother to do his studying correctly. As such the church adopted this belief and has been on the wrong track ever since. His interpretation of Romans 5:12 was atrocious.

Romans 5:12

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

Sin existed before the fall, but came to mankind because of Adams disobedience. As a result of this disobedience, death came to mankind and continues like this because mankind has continued to sin.

This was the Jewish and early christian interpretation of the fall. Mankind was only immortal becasue he had access to the tree of life in the Garden, when he was expelled, he lost that access and eventually died as a result of his "sin" / disobedience.

The Jewish / Early Christian outlook of the fall is the correct view and as such, sin is personal but also universal only as it applies to human beings.

Any other race would not have any need of a redeemer unless they too had fallen. God would still continue to use the these beings in that capacity.

While there is alot more to the issue than what I have written, that is the gist of it. If you desire more specific details, please, ask away...

Most of the religous scriptures, christian jewish islamic, have revelations that have a deeper meaning that can only be found if you read beyond the 'limitation' that 'words' put forth... for instance, what was refered to as camels and donkeys is cars and planes today, swords and arrows then, guns and bombs today. So maybe aliens are closer to home than we think... expanding on what jor-el said what we call aliens might be something else entirely, put in this realm for purposes we were'nt meant to know....

O, we'll know soon enough, we just won't like what we'll find out.

Jor-el, we may be here as a punishment but we cant say the same for worshiping God can we? Though the aliens may not need a reedemer, are they not capable of commiting sins? And should they, too, not also worship the Lord? That is assuming they dont already...

Image of god ?

Made in the image of man.
Bleeding jealous heart. Childish disposition with regular temper tantrums that needs CONSTANT attention.
Blood-stained hands filled with candy in one and a whip in the other. Big stomping feet.
Pissed off because he can't get it right concerning his creation .
Sent sonny/sunny boy for good PR tactic.

u just gave me the chills !

What do you mean "only ordinary people lose conciousness"? All people can lose conciousness.



I think so too. The Bible is not meant to be taken litteraly ("God created Man from its own image"). It is little arogant to say that God has the shape of a human since that is only one of the countless lifeforms in the universe. And i dont think that what we call "God" has a physical shape anyway.

I think God is consciousness, and we are God (conciousness) experiencing itself on the material plane.

Any created being can commit sin and rebel against Gods will, humans aren't unique in that respect.

hello djohan,
welcome
i am a bit new too, i guess

hi Sama,

creation is interesting, not me

is human geniune? what do you exactly mean by that?

there is a long gone event but no memory, we forgot about it.

i usually refuse to talk about things that i am not informed. so please keep in mind that i am just thinking over.

we have three bodies. physical one is the vehicle to be here.

soul/nafs/ego is the 2nd body. this body is designed to follow evil.

Spirit is the third one. it belongs to the Creator and it is designed to follow command of Allah/God.

a human being, only by being in a physical body here on earth, would have other two bodies together. soul would invite him to commit sins. Spirit would invite him to good deeds, merits.

he would use his intellect to choose. he would hear two voices in his head. if he gives in to his ego, he would commit sin. if he follows the voice of Spirit, he wouldnot.

this is the basic for everyone.



the image.
Allah has many names/faces/attributes/adjectives. we are all combinations of its names. it is like dna chain. everyone has a unique combination just like fingerprints. all alike but never the same.

soul/ego wants to follow evil because it has 19 vices in its heart. such as rebel, cruelty, hatred, addiction, jealousy, greed, arrogance, ignorance, stinginess, impatience...etc
every humanbeing has these characteristics because each of us has a ego. all of these vices has a cure in the names of Allah. they are like void of the names of Allah.
in your life, you can see some people are more patience than others, some more rebel, some more cruel. it is because each has his own combination of 'void' of those names of the Creator. in other words some vices are a bit higher comparing the others.

on the other hand Spirit has virtues. those virtues are the exact opposite of vices. instead of rebel, there is devotion in the heart of Spirit. it is flawless just like Creator itself. that is natural because it belongs to Allah Almighty and therefor it invites to Allah.

according to Islam, ones job here is to turn those vices into virtues same as Spirit. we do that by using the names of Allah since there is no other way. it has many names. it was said Prophets know 1000 names. well, i don't. therefor they were Prophets. Satan uses one name of Allah and thanks to that name he could travel all the universe in seconds. there are 99 names in Noble Qur'an. there are in Bible and in Tavrat too. i just can't remember how many were there.

so, in my opinion that Spirit is the image of Allah. but still it has to be earned. for that we were given freewill. to be created as a human being is not enough. it was said human could be lower than animals by following evil and animals agree with that! Spirit is already perfect. it is not result of our work, our effort. only if we could turn vices of ego into virtue of the Spirit, that would be result of our effort.

also, there is not even one creature who knows all the names. in other words, noone can be Allah itself. therefor Allah is the greatest.

do you mean 3D worlds like ours? or do you mean creatures of other dimensions? and where do you get the idea?

human beings are not the only creatures who has intellect. don't get me wrong i am changing my mind. let me explain this way:

animals: they have ego and no intellect.
humans and jinns: they both have intellect and ego.
angels: they don't have ego, they have intellect (except some Archangels)

animals are not responsible of their actions because they donot have intellect to choose.
humans and jinns were given freewill because they have intellect and that's the way to use it. having freewill!
angels are pure intellect. they don't have ego to follow. therefor they don't have freewill.(and again except some Archangels like Gebrael PBUH)

number of creatures of Creator is known by Creator itself. impossible to know such a thing. it is like knowing how many leafs fell on the ground in whole time of the planet earth till today. noone can know that. only it does. so i would agree with there could be many different creaures in this dimension and in the others. and maybe there are some angels with higher intellect. i really don't know for sure. but might be. even if so, they don't have free wills. they are created to be natural servants of God. they don't choose.

Jinns have intellect. some are very smart. they have many different forms. they might look like anything, even human.

what do you think about this? i really like to know why you believe in ETs, what exactly ET means to you? can you give an example? describe one, please

if you ask me, God knows it all, doesnot need to experience. everything is not God, God is the one who created everything. it doesnot creat itself. it was said it is beyond of everything we know. beyond creation.

have you ever met someone who did reach Allah?
those people don't lose conscious. they are awake while they're asleep. they can be in two places at the same time. all the tools of metaphysics could be used by them. even before they die, they know they would. as you see what i mean by ordinary people is people who isnot enlightened yet. us!

So is Allah /Jehovah OR what ????? One and the same.

According to both faiths there is only ONE true GOD

Are they not both abrahamic ?

Will the real god PLEASE stand up !!!

Thanks............just a little request.

Allah is not a personal name for God, it is the Arabic word for "God" in a generic sense. Jehovah is not the name for God either, again it is a rendition of one of Gods main characteristics, "The one who is eternal" It is also a parallel to Gods own naming of himself as spoken to Moses, "I AM".

If God has a personal name nobody knows it, since all the words we have for him are merely renditions of some of his facets. Therefore we call him God or Allah, it is all the same.

I take it that the 3D world you refer to is our normal physical world, as such that is exactly what I mean. Beings who physically travelled from another world which circles another star and have come to visit us by means of technology like a faster than light starship.

In this case we are not talking of UFO's as we now hear in the news and can read anywhere on the internet. These beings are not Gods, they did not create us, as many say the did. They are simply mortal and physical beings who are more advanced than humans technologically and have come to visit us.

They are not human, they are not angels, they are not Jinn or any other kind of supernatural being. The simply come from another planet in this galaxy.

They have a physical body, they have intellect and they have an ego, just like human beings, they simply do not look anything like a human being.

We cannot say how they would look, since we have not met them yet. God did not create only mankind in the physical world as an expression of his image, he created many kinds of beings throughout the universe. All of them are according to his image since all of them are created by him and for his glory. Gods image is simply the expression of Goodness and intellect connected to a physical being. Gods image is also the responsibilities he gave us when he created us,

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

In other words being in Gods image is to be his representatives on earth. To do like him and be like him.

Now regarding you comments, Jinns are simply another form of spiritual being, they were created by God and in many cases are also believed to have been angels themselves at one time, these jinn rebelled against God, they refused to bow down to mankind and serve them when God told them to do so. As such they are in opposition to Gods will.

Angels are created with free will, just like the Jinn. Not only the great angels like Gabriel and Michael, but all angels. They chose to obey God and thus kept their position as angels of God. God doesn't create intellect without free will. God does not create robots. Each being chooses to obey or disobey, just like humans do. The ones who chose to obey and were faithful to Gods will, we call angels, the ones who chose to disobey and were unfaithful to Gods will, we call Jinn or Demons.

Many authorities identify the word Allah, with the word El, the creator in various semetic cultures including the earliest scriptures in Judaism. As we have seen, in both Early Judaism and Cannanite theology, El is the creator, and has "sons" in charge of the different tribal groups. The original Bible states Yahweh was the Son of God in charge of the Hebrews, in the heavenly court of El the creator. Later. when Judaism would become completely montheistic, the son of god, and god were merged together, and the other sons of god became "demons", or the seraphim assistants to God, which like Yaw- Yahweh, was originally conceived as winged, fire spewing, reptilian entities, like the idol Yahweh ordered Moses to contruct, and worshipped for centuries by the hebrews.

The Qur'an insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that Muhammad and his followers worship the same God as the Jews.[Qur'an 29:46] The Quran's Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with Abraham.

And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong: but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow."

As such, if El is Allah then the God of the Jews who also goes by the name of Yahweh, is also Allah. Just as Islam has 99 names of God, so do the hebrews have multiple "names" of God.

If Allah has no physical image, what image does his three daughter's have?

dude? what have you have you been smoking? Allah has no family... "he begets not, nor was he begotten"

The moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

you are refering to idols, these were beliefs held by idol worshippers before prophet muhammed (pbuh) came, they built idols to represent the three duaghters,.. and as jor-el said, Allah, is not a seperate being, just the arabic name of God, so the three daughters of Allah belief should be seen as a idol worshippers belief of God, Allah is just the translated word, the Allah they refered to is the same one muslims, christians, jews worship, i hope you can now see why i reacted the way i did...

Well, do some research on this one, if your in the free world? get yourself a copy of an early Qu'ran, Mohammed says "worship, give thanks, pray to al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat" or words to that affect, later thinking "if there's to be one god in my new religion i'm going to have to dump the three girls" and he did.

Yes, and comes from the same pagan beliefs as Christianity and Judaism, come on, he even kept the moon goddess crescent moon.

there is no need to get an early version of the quran because it has not been changed, and before you go on about how it has, let me tell you that there is an ancient quran in turkey dating back to just after the prophets departure,.. and please do tell me where in the quran it says or in your words muhammed(pbuh) says to worship the three daughters... i did not claim to have done any research but im sure YOU have done YOURS...

Are you a "Muslim" if so what i say makes no difference if Allah says so, it is so. No debate or research this is why one of the most advanced regions of the world came to a stop and stayed in the middle ages. But here goes anyway, towards the end of Mohammed's life there were many versions of the Quran he had many destroyed, in the bottle neck after his death many more versions of the Quran were burnt.



Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

accounts of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d.

the Quraysh used to chant as they circumambulated the Ka'ba: "Al-Lat, and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other; indeed these are exalted (or lofty, ‘ula) gharaniq; let us hope for their intercession." (The Hajj

See: surah 53:19-20.

hi,

there are no 'versions' of Qur'an. there are versions of commentaries. no power on earth could change the original text.

and yes, those verses of 53 tells about haters of Allah. if you'd check the next verse you would see this words below:

[19] Have ye seen Lat, and 'Uzza,

[20] And another, the Third (goddess), Manat?

[21] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

[22] Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

[23] These are nothing but names which ye have devised, - ye and your fathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!


what's the point of mentioning this anyway? there've been people who claimed they were Gods. therefor one of the most famous saying of Islam happened to be "LA ILAHE ILLALLAH" (no idols, only Allah)

hi,

so what's your source? where did Muhammed(PBUH) said such a thing?

lat, uzza and manat were mentioned in Qur'an because they were staues people worshiped. those people were against Allah and its Oneness. they are examles of ingodliness.

each Muslim could take them as pointed people who end up hell because of their cruelty, because they followed their desires.

i kinda confuse stuff here and i hope it is clear. Gods are nt statues anymore. now they are people. those statues they worshiped 1400 years ago are in the minds of people. so some how history repeats itself. today we have a kind of people who's willing to rule whole world by using chaos. so we know what would happen to them.

in other words, if prophet was said anything about those three (they were broken down by Prophet himself), it can never be 'pray' for them yet it might be 'remember' them and learn lesson without being 'one of them' er tired, bye (hopefully would be back for Jor-el the father)

thank you lava for clearing that, and as for the crescent, islam has not symbolised itself with any particular symbol, but due to political reasons a flag was required to give a standard for muslims, the crescent goes far back as ancient babylon, their symbol was a crown, crescent and star.
In 1299 after conquering what is now turkey, sultan osman made the crescent moon, the symbol of the ottoman dynasty because he saw it in a vision.
When constantinople fell to muhammed ll in 1453, the crescent came to...

came to represent the islamic and turkish empire, the star was later added by sultan selim lll in 1793...
since 1453 the muslim world adopted the crescent as their countries flags... hence what we have today...