unlike then when we were spread to the four corners of the earth we have come back to our root to carry on to were we have left off ,apassing of the torch lets say

Hmmmm.

Snowjob, you're blowing smoke up our butts. Cut it out.

Plato never said anything like "Atlantis (was) technologically advanced." You yourself, by your own admission shown above, simply made that up. I mean, you don't even know what Plato wrote, so....

If you want to know (which I seriously doubt) then try these two links:

The Timaeus by Plato

The Critias by Plato

These are not "books." They are what scholars have called "Dialogues." Critias is unfinished and is the shorter of the two (if I remember correctly.) Neither one should take you more than a half hour to read - should take less time than that.


Atlantis certainly never existed at all. Same goes for Lemuria. There is nothing whatsoever "mysterious" about the Bermuda Triangle.

Hold onto your wallet.


You are welcome to hold any opinion you wish. But you're wrong and you're using this error to try and insinuate something about which you have no apparent knowledge. The vast majority of "legends" have no basis in fact at all.

And there's also the sobering fact that there simply existed no "Legend of Atlantis" at all, anywhere, anytime in the past, until Plato. You've already been informed of this yet you want to keep using the old "Legends are based in fact" baloney that the pseudohistorians make their living on.

Harte

I suppose by that reasoning we should be looking for Hogwarts?

Glory,
While some legends could have loosely based around a real event at one time, many are not. Furthermore, Atlantis was no legend, rather a fictional account given by Plato. And fiction is not prone to be factual.

atlantis did exist...ask milo thatch!!

It’s interesting that King Atlas is said to have ruled Atlantis: an ancient sunken city in the Atlantic Ocean. The etymology of Atlantic is indeed from Atlas.

“The eldest, who was king, he named Atlas, and from him the whole island and the
Ocean received the name of Atlantic.”
-Plato, Critias

"In Greek, Atlantis and Atlantic are adjectival forms of Atlas, meaning '(the island) of Atlas' and 'the sea of Atlas' respectively....Now Atlas may once have been located well inside the Mediterranean before the gradual extension of Greek geographical knowledge pushed him to the west and located him on the High Atlas range in Morocco"
-J. V. Luce, Lost Atlantis: New Light on an Old Legend

“The Egyptians told of “the Isle of Flame” in the Far Western Ocean from which their forefathers arrived after a terrible natural disaster. Meanwhile, in North America, the Apache Indians still preserve memories of their ancestral origins from the sunken “Isle of Flames” in the distant seas of the East.
Plato tells us of an advanced civilization that existed 9000 years before himself when the Atlantic was navigable and traversed by people the world over.”
-Frank Joseph, The Atlantis Encyclopedia

Also the Aztecs claim the ancestry descended from Aztlan and Atl was their water god. All the Mexican and Central American gods ended with the suffix -atl (i.e. Quetzalcoatl, Omecihuatl, Tecciztecatl) Then you've got pyramids from Peru to India and similar altars and religious practices associated with them supposedly popping up independent of each other. This is just the tip of the iceburg - I'm positive Atlantis existed, just keep researching and you'll be unable to deny it, stop researching and you can blindly deny as long as you want.

Two things here caught my eye --

Pyramids: They are a very basic shape and very easy to build. Maybe -- just maybe -- it's because of this level of simplicity they pop up in so many places, rather than some unknown, unattested civilization.

Religious practices: Which ones? If there actually are, maybe that says something about basic human leitmotifs and anthropology, rather than the same unknown, unattested civilization.

If you're positive Atlantis exists, why are you bothering to research it? I mean, if you've already made up your mind what you're going to find, you'll probably find exactly that.

--Jaylemurph

You should point out that this Atlas was a human, and not the Titan Atlas who holds the sky up.

your quote:


The Atlas Mountains referred to here were the supposed location of the mountain on which the Titan Atlas stands. This is selective quoting, playing with context, at it's best.

your quote

Joseph here completely mischaraterizes the Egyptian creation myth.

The Isle of Flames actually refers to Benben, the primeval mound, the first land to emerge from the sea. Get it? EMERGE from the sea. Not sink.

The mastabas and subsequently the pyramids are symbolic of this island emerging from the sea. This sea, by the way, was never thought of as "in the west" by the Egyptians. Being that the Isle of Flames was the first land, the idea that it would be to the west makes little sense. in fact, the Egyptians claimed it was at Iunu which came to be called Heliopolis. The had it right there next to a temple.

The Apache, as far as I can tell, had no such myth. If you want, maybe you could check around the following sites, see what you can find:

http://www.native-languages.org/apache-legends.htm

http://www.indianmythology.org/apache_mythology.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Indian/stories.html

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/na-apachelegends.html

I can't find anything about it - maybe you can.

These are the sites I usually go to to research the mythology of Native Americans.
Maybe you know a better source for Apache myths and legends? If so, post it please.


Yes, atl is a common sound in Nahuatl, a language originating from the American Southwest, it is currently thought, about the same time as Plato was writing his fiction.


I've been researching it for 25 years already. Research it enough and you'll see it never existed.

Harte

pyramids are easy to build NOW. date back to the great pyramid of giza, supposedly created in 2560 bc. think it's easy for them?

...Easier than say, a dome or a tower or a wall with flying buttresses? Then, yes it is easier to build.
I mean, all these things came much later. Don't confuse scale with complexity.

--Jaylemurph

That is true J. The fact is that the Pyramid is the most simple of structures to build. When you pile rocks on one another you find that if it tapers towards the top they are less likely to fall over.

As for the Atlantis debate, anyone who hasn't read Platos dialogues are really in no position to debate. His dialogues are the ONLY real references to Atlantis. Everything else is a reference and review of his dialogues.

It should be noted that Plato never described Atlantis as being anything other then a similar society to Greece. It was Edgar Cayce and then later "prophets" like Sylvia Browne who invented a technologically advanced Atlantis.

didn't casey say something like in the middel from the gulf of mex to the pillaras would be atlantis,

these atlas mt range run 1500 miles along the north of africa right from the north western on in to some littel bay.

now the appilation mt range runs 1500 miles from the gulf of mex to the gulf of st lawrence.

and because this great mt that cape breton is the cap stone when she subsited way so long ago she pushed the noth amercan plate in a counter clock wise motion.

kinda like and i've said this before a bober in a sea of tectonic plates.

pushing it up in to a colder climat ,thus mass migration or instinction

now these fallin angels can claim for them selfs but they to will be judged

LOL, how can you have an opinion about Atlantis, if you've never read Plato's dialoges, the ONLY source for Atlantis in antiquity... just wondering

just tu segway for a bite you see there are terrans that are spread wide and i'm pretty shore civilations florish around them ,just to mention that the asby terrain the bras d'or terrain and of course the mira terrain and precambrain sheild rocks tobe located in one spot like the island of cape breton the chances for a civilization not to fluish is unlikely

there are trases on inganish island on the east side of this throne that date back at least 11000 bc arrow heads or somthing like that .

and just to end this littel rant with the current that flows up from the gulf of mex and streat on by us we are right on that anceant trade route of long ago

Yes, we Terrans are all over this planet...

--Jaylemurph

and even you can see the point i'm getting at if they flouished out there as one the likelyhood of the whole flouishing up here as one in harmonie of sea , sky and earth is greater.

or were you just being a smart ars

Hey, if you don't set 'em up like that, then I won't hit them out of the ball-park...

--Jaylemurph

Hi,

... one of the best accounts about Atlantis I have ever found is by the Toltec nagal Théun Mares, and here we find that Atlantis was a city like any other, and not especially a 'home of the gods'...

.... in this account we find that within the Atlantean civilisation there was a split in the ranks of the Toltec priests... meaning that whilst half of the Toltecs practised the 'Law of One' [everybody is equal and needed], those that split turned to the practise of the 'black arts' and sought to create 'kingdoms' and control other people...

the link is:

http://www.signofjonah.org/build/lessons/t...un_atlantis.htm

There is a main page, that that link came from with lots more Toltec material on it at:

http://www.signofjonah.org/build/lessons/t.../theun_main.htm

Also the Toltec nagal Théun Mares is now outreaching to find a body of people that would be interested in joining an interactive Toltec Teaching Forum, at:

http://survey.warriorskeep.com/?id=10

I hope this information helps

Jason

i think atlantis is strongly connected to the burmuda triangle.
and didnt casey say atlantis was technologically advanced and the found a power that would make them disapear or somthing like that?well also ive ponderd on the theroy that UFO's are related to atlantis and the burmuda triangle.
UFO's are usually seen near water.if u belive UFO's are connected to USO's then you should know that USO's are always seen going into the direction of the burmuda triangle.Im not saying that aliens are in atlantis but maby what we call aliens are actually people from the lost or not so lost civilization of Atlantis.

It must be nice to either skip through a whole thread and read nothing, or read it and choose to ignore it so you can go about your fantasy.

it is

Hey, at least he's one of the people who admit the facts are never going to impinge too much on his idea of the truth!

--Jaylemurph

no im open to other opinons but i was kind ain a rush so i thought id get my point across then read the thread.

"Atlantis" was Minoan Crete. It's refugees, the "Sea People" or Phillistines brought their story to the Egyptians who exaggerated it when they told it to Plato.


Lapiche

Crete was a posible place that Plato was talking about of the where abouts of a ancient city Atlantis there are simlarities in the Crete buildings in structures and of Platos written stories? Plus proof of Crete has being hit by a catrostophy in the past and posible again according to geologist.

I agree the Minoan people were the basis of the Atlantis legend (though I usually go for Thera), but I'm not sure the Egyptians -- or even Solon -- had anything to do with the story.

--Jaylemurph

Thera is a good possibility.



Lapiche

Atlantis may just be a story but how about these ancient forgotten civilizations did people just walk away when things started to look bleak from these ancient cities something must of freaked them out to never look back, the unification of our world civilization is the biggest civilization ever? there's no-where for us to look back to or to go?

So many Explorers operating out of their comfy chairs have researched and given umpteen locations and theories for Atlantis. yeah thats quite easy.

But no one is ready to prove his worth. If such a couch researcher states a claim that Atlantis is in such and such location, he should better go there, take a dive and confirm it with himself that it is Atlantis.

Anything Goes! But Let it go with some Proof!

No, but there's plenty of real history to investigate and process that the need to look for manufactured history is significantly lessened.
I mean, as some earlier in the thread said, we still haven't found Hogwarts yet, either...

--Jaylemurph

... Then it could be back to the Irish Atlantis.....
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ataw/ataw507.htm



I still think.. that when there is a reference made to Atlantis... they are referring to the all the great civilizations that existed up to and past some 9000 years ago...

They are digging up evidence... or finding submerged evidence of what must have been some very advanced civilizations that were wiped out some time between 2000.. to 5000 years ago... Egypt is showing remnants of that time... there are the Japanese submerged cities...


http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/japan/japan.html
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/phikent/orbit/may/mason.html
the one off India...
9,500-Year-Old City Found
Underwater Off India
Discovery in Bay of Cambay Will Force
Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History



..
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/announce/oldcity.htm


http://www.s8int.com/water25.html
New Underwater Finds in Sri Krishna's City-




Micronesia....

http://www.zuko.com/Mysterious_Planet/Lost_Cities.htm

http://www.janesoceania.com/micronesia_pohnpei_madol/


...I think... like today... all those civilizations could have traded with each other...or when some lands were flooded via some natural.. or ( reading about the old nuclear wars) man made catastrophies .. they would have settled other lands and brought their ancient knowledge .. technologies with them... hence the various building style... eg... various styles of pyramids... all over the world... throughout history....


Also just think of the fantastic ancient building styles of ancient Syria...

http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/lebanon/baalbek.htm


They just suddenly didn't become great builders...

Note that English cathedrals that are 1000 years old and still standing....

Can Man do any of those things today, to last even a few hundred years????... even with their modern equipment????



Maybe with all the religious wars... burnings purges... and philistine style spring cleaning of ancient knowledge... deemed devil's work... we lost enough to throw us all into the dark ages for more than 1000 years... we are only just starting to uncover hidden ... long forgotten mysteries of our past... that was only vaguely remembered as myths.. legend... or hidden/disguies in rituals.. ancient writings... songs... poems...

there are warehouses ...museums...of ancient relics.. pilfered by missionaries . monks.... (who at least brought them back)...from all over the world thru out history....... lots or strange... unusual heirlooms... treasures... sacred objects.. too were destroyed on the spot... or melted down....


I know I am rambling on a bit.... but... just think how many important archeological artifacts that are long forgotten in museum basements... or in the Vatican basements....

that could shed some light on our ancient history....

There may be clues yet!!!

Some other ancient documentation... or weird artifacts that once recognised for what they are....will answer some of our questions....



Whew !!!! was I too off base this time?

What I am basically trying to put across is that they were all connected.... all known to each other... commercially at least!!!!

hehehe CS..why dont you say that Pepsi and Coke also originated in Atlantis?? muahahaha

Plato's Atlantis may well have been based on stories of what happened on Thera and Crete a thousand years earlier. These stories could well have come from Egypt, but that's not really necessary. Crete was overrun by the precursors of the Greeks, so the story may well have already been in the Greek's past.

The Minoans were certainly not the Sea Peoples. Not according to the Egyptians, anyway.

Crystal,

Your first quote is from "Atlantis, the Antediluvian World." A classic tome, but filled with errors because it was written from an armchair in 1882 by a retired politician. So it's actually beneath my effort to dispute it.

This is the underwater formation off Yonaguni-Jima. It's unquestionably a natural formation.


This is Nan Madol, a ruined city in Micronesia that dates to 1500 AD.

That little factoid is usually left out on the sort of websites frequented by Crystal Sage.

Here's a quote from that site:


There is no evidence whatsoever of any "ancient nuclear war" anywhere on Earth, much less in Northern India.
The "radioactive skeletons" are from Mojendaro. They are not what is claimed here and Mojendaro dates to about 2600 BC. Not exactly Atlantian, not even as old as Sumerian.


The Bay of Cambay is usually called the Gulf of Cambay for those that want to Google it. It's actual name is the Gulf of Khambhat.
Our old friend Graham Hancock has made several dollars from misrepresenting the finds there.
Ancient objects (pieces of wood) that date to 9500 BC dredged up from the bottom there are the main basis of these outlandish claims. But, the Gulf is the endpoint of a major estuary system, and current thinking is that these pieces were washed down into the gulf by the rivers.

"Pottery" shards found on the bottom are likely not pottery at all, but geofacts which are completely explained by Geologist Paul Heinrich at this site so click here to have your bubble burst.

You may conmtinue to believe in the ancient city off Cuba if you wish, for the time being anyway.

National Geographic was supposed to join with the discoverers in a second expedition, but they backed out.

The second expedition took place, but they couldn't do anything because of weather and equipment failure.


This is about the submerged city of Dwaraka - today called Dwarka.

The underwater portion, which was originally reclaimed from the sea by the Hindus living there, dates to no earlier that 1700 BC.

Wiki has an interesting article on this. Here's a quote:
(My emphases)
Source: Wikipedia

Again, not exactly Atlantean in age.


Both of these are about Nan Madol (again C.S.?)


Not at all likely, hardly even possible. Look at the vast differences in dates.



You're right here. Baalbek was built by the Romans. The Romans were among the greatest builders that have ever existed.
It's a Roman site through and through, from the giant blocks through the foundation all the way down to bedrock.

Roman, not "ancient."
See:


Source: Archaeologist Frank Doernenburg
Thank you to Doug's Archaeology Site.

I wonder why you never cut and paste any of the articles found at Doug's?


A minute and a half on the internet would have shown the ignorance implied by the above remark. You are postulating that the people of Nan Madol had trade relations with other peoples that predated them by, and had disappeared by, over a thousand years before Nan Madol was built.

Please.

Harte

I’ve found so many errors in what’s posted I don’t even look at CS’s offerings anymore... If anyone actually checked, they’d find CS is a pseudoscience/pseudohistoric spin machine... IMO

BTW, I was wondering if CS is paid by the ‘alternate view’ people, to promote publication sales... hey, like the ‘believers’ say, ‘anything is possible’...

Pax, c'mon --

As someone who's been called a paid government/NWO shill in the CT forum, I think that's a little... harsh?

--Jaylemurph

harte!

thanks for the Doug’s Archaeology site!
i will refer to it before posting on archaeological stuff.

but always read my disclaimer!!

LOL, was I too harsh? just an observation and idea, no harm meant... I suppose it's a good thing really, makes it easier for people like Harte (who have actually researched) to show the misinformation about the subject...

Coredrill,

My pleasure.

If you are interested, I have a few more links to similar sites.

Your disclaimer is a good idea, like I said before. Crystal Sage should have one as well, only possibly a disclaimer that is much more thorough than yours!

Harte

I stand eldered. Thanks Harte.
Like I said in many previous posts. It is really not my forte. I just don't appreciate being told my tribe, The Nanticoke are "Atlantians" or some lost "Jewish" tribe. It's insulting to my intelligence and my race. That is why I attack such nonsense as "Atlantis".


Lapiche

Elder, but not elderly!

You have good reason to attack, piney.

It's very easy for con men to claim that the Native peoples had some myth or legend concerning whatever bogus crap they are trying to sell. This is because of the varied and rich mythologies possessed by the Original Peoples of the Americas, and the absence of much knowledge in the general public concerning these tales.
This combination makes for a easy con situation, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen it tried.

Did you see the links I put up to Native mythologies?

Harte

No, But I am a librarian for the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting's (Quaker) Native American Library and a "token" for their "Indian Committee". I also have over 50 books in my person collection so I don't read much on the web.
What bugs me the most is most of those "New age" writers do not give us any credit for "self development". It all came from "somewhere else" whether it be Europe, Atlantis, or Outer Space.

Lapiche

i'm glad someone brought up crete thoughs minoens were in touch with the bull aw and look the lion to the right in egpt can any one find the face and eagel
























































































































































































































]

i have no idea what happened there ,sorry for the long white page of nothenness.

mabey you should start looking between the lines and finding the root to this proplem.

you know the base or bedrock ,when one goes into the shadows what one brings back is hard to see

??????????????


Lapiche

piney what iwas talking about was if in later generations you get the sphinx in megalithic structure the atlantean people worked in land mass structure by creating their kind of sphinx only it stood on the right side of that throne.

did i clear some of the cobwebs

Actually....You created more confusion.
Are you a speaker of Francois? Jayle asked but you didn't answer.


Lapiche

edit: Do you speak Wabanakii?? Because I speak Aniishanaabi and Unami and can understand Wabanakii.

i,m french by blood and as you can gess my spellen ain't to good eeder ,but i gots i good heart just ruff around the edges

it's knot just beast that was carved from the bedrock yes there are three others but it's that of man and that man was ,is ,and will allway's be our father GOD and it was shown forth by his son that we were made in his image