what arent you missing buddy? the tyrant is debt and corporate fascism-- international bankers that use the global military industrial complex as its bodygaurd-- the whole world is mute as bush and cheney kill thousands of new yorkers and pillage afghan and iraq in their neo crusade based on premeditated lies...how is that NOT falling into lockstep?

Any debt I have I have honestly incurred and therefore owe. I do not blame my creditor for it. I bought it, I owe them.

Corporate facisism? What's that?

Have a guy living in my house who has many friends in Iraq...Iraqis. He helped them build schools, clinics, houses. Is this pillaging? Or perhaps you don't know of this side of the story. I completely understand if you haven't, it's not common knowledge, for some reason.

what??? in the green zones? yeah hes a tent builder but never mind the fact that they need tents because we blew their infrastructure to s**t-- in case you didnt know 9/11 was an inside job so afghan,iraq and iran are the modern day czeck,poland and soviet union and bush is the neo hitler and.... oh yeah he just happens to the grandson of the biggest american nazi collaborator in american history ...prescot bush who had millions seized for bank rolling the nazi regime-- the internet is derailing the current nazi/corporate train-- ie ..what posed as a "nazi" movement back then hides as corporate globalists now-- in case you didnt know the federal reserve is not a govt agency but a private institution that created its wealth out of thin air by removing the gold standard and printing notes that are not backed by anything-- they then proceed to tax you interest for using these notes while they confiscate all the real wealth using their monopoly print at will fiat currency which is designed to fail but only after they have accumulated the real estate,gold and souls of all the stooges not willing to challenge their slave system ....like you-- what pains me the most is the realization that the human conscience has been so abused that it is completely unaware of its divine essence-- why is it that when people strap dynomite to themselves and kill a bunch of people they are considered terrorists yet when lockheed martin,carlyle or any dept of defense agency creates missile,bombs,tanks or jets designed to kill masses of people they are NOT?? we have obviously been tricked into by-passing diplomacy,avoiding compromise and worshiping death-- i for one revolt

Well spoken, and now a word from the OWNER of the federal reserve...


Welcome to the End of The World, next stop, Global Enslavement.

Sunofone, were you even awake when we conducted the air war? Did you notice the city lights didn't go out? If we were out to kill masses of civilians, why not start with the power plants, disabling hospitals and such? Then just carpet bomb the city.

Is this what you saw? Is this how you think it was done?

scauma, CINCNORAD runs NORAD, he reports to the SECDEF, who reports to the President. That has never changed. Shootdown authority sits with POUS.

The towers came tumbleing down deal with it folks the facts are in the physics and the fact that two planes did bring them dowm. What a day to never,never forget.

Bush was in on it. You could tell by the stupid look on his face when the kids in the classroom he was visiting were trying to teach him how to read.

He still cant read and still is stupid! And At least Im a honest Texan something he`s never,never going to be.

That...is genius. Utter genius.

Yes, this seems to be the first thing to overcome, how can these people do something like this? There is no way this could be the truth.

However from the outside of the US, the explanation of what happened in the governments 911 report is not being looked at as a "complete" picture.
You look at the lack of response, the errors, the ignored pre-911 investigations by the FBI and CIA, and absolutely no one was reprimanded, even slightly.

Looking at Monsanto, Fox News pro-republican agenda, CIA Contra drug trafficking, the STACKED Supreme court. The ineffective border security across US Mexico and the arrest of US agents in Mexico, Clintons "Peter Paul" incident, indefinite imprisonment and Torture. Just to name a few examples of corruption being done with no reprimands.

Um... nah... US govt is clean as a whistle, and the Media reports nothing of value.
In Canada we see quite a difference in media, we get US channels as well as our own... its quite a striking contrast if you analyze it.
However I guess if you cant see forest through the trees, you end up in denial of the truth. If you live in a garbage dump since birth, what defines "clean" for you?

3 years ago I thought Alex Jones was a bit "out there", but after seeing where this has all led, he , and Lou Dobbs are trying to WAKE you up.
When your constitution is finally fully erased, will you finally wake up? or will you go on pretending that the Corporate heisted Government and media is your friend?

Look, I'm all for uniting the world, being one world, one people, but I don't wished to be ruled by these people. You need to vote in a representative of the people, not a representative of the corporations. Remember the best way to defeat the opposition is to be the opposition, and this is what the US Dems and Reps have become, illusions of difference and choice.

We have it here in Canada too.

Just wait for that price of oil rises more, once you start to see the transport trucking companies doing what the Airlines are doing, you will know it is time for the collapse.
Greed has overcome the Government and the Estate that Oversees it, we need to set it right.

We need to restore the free press, stop the corporations buying ads from re-engineering the news.
We need a representative of the people to take the government and restore the freedoms of the people.
We need people in government who are not part of any large corporation, siphoning special funds for their special interest groups.
We need total restructuring of the government, 3 trillion missing from the Penagon and no head are rolling? WTF?
3 trillion MISSING... (yes everyone is snoring, fluoride in the water dumbing us down)
Can anyone fathom "3 trillion", no accountability.
still snoring an not doing anything? well then lazy people who would rather wait for "someone else" to come alone and fix it, cant be bothered, eyes fixed to the computer playing WOW, too busy watching Paris Hilton defining the generation, get up you lazy bast....ds.

3 trillion dollars of tax money robbed. No one seems to care... fa la la...

Oh, no... not my government, its soo squeaky clean, they would never...


And as one seeing things from the Outside of the US. I'm seeing the "Good guys" USA turning into a nightmare, a greed infested hypocrite because the people that live there wouldn't stand up and say enough is enough.

I have no great regard for the current US government, Iraq and Camp Delta speak for themselves. However, the basic question isn't whether they could have done it, it's whether they actually did it.
This is the question where I look at all the "evidence" about inside jobs, and find nothing to convince me. Incompetence in not responding to intelligence reports of extremists taking flying lessons should certainly be investigated in more detail, but there is no evidence that the fall of the WTC buildings was anything other than the inevitable result of the impacts, no evidence that anything other than hijacked airliners hit the towers or the Pentagon, no evidence for any of the more far-fetched theories. All the "inside job" theorists have is a lot of opinions, suggestions, half-truths, nothing concrete

How did WTC 7 collapse then? You've seen the videos many times!

..yet, still no official explanation for their collapse at 5:20pm September 11th, 2001.

..lots of speculation but no explanation.

Yes, mostly with the significant detail of the penthouse collapse omitted. Why do so many conspiracists distort the evidence in this way?

An explanation here:
http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-...lsanz-Nov07.pdf

A speculation not an explanation (Why do so many debunkers distort the evidence in this way?)

Title of the PDF link is: How the loss of One Column May have Led to the Collapse of WTC 7
by Ramon Gilsanz and Willa Ng.

Debunking sounds like a badge of intellectual distinction, to me.

I don't get all the hostility people convey about this issue. The events happened, they were terrible, and only Hollywood or others would take away from the realities.

It has been years and years, going on years, evermore. And, no explosives, or men in funny ninja suits, working and then going home to their wife and kids saying- "I blew the WTC, Honey!".

It is a myth. Other matters of reality are quite another thing.

[font="Comic Sans MS"][/font][size="3"][/size][color="#008000"][/color]

I would just like to inform you all of this: The twin towers were part of a war game plan. These plans were made over 25 yrs ago. The only documentation one will find about any of this is through a programmed slave of the illuminati - a First Born! The type of programming is called "spinner programming " (search and ye shall find) The documentation is held in the form of a doodle and has codes, crypts and images. Not only was 911 planned over 25 yrs ago so were the "Bees" - "Cybourg Race" and something about "Kato" - japanese banker (I can't decifer that part). I assure you that this is true as I am the slave that hold the classified doodle. I have been released and victim of theatrics, computer hacking, id theft, ritual sh** and a ****in implant thats killing me. I was programmed in Montreal and it all began because of Ville Marie Social Services - i am adopted. Daughter to member of the Scottish Rite. Not black or white - good or bad, I see good in all - I am grey!

Since the building had been on fire and abandoned for hours before it collapsed, so no-one has any direct knowledge of what was happening inside, what more in the way of explanation is possible? What aspects of the WTC7 collapse are not explained by Gilsanz' theory?

as has been pointed out to you many times structures that have integrity failures on one side always fall towards that side there is NO WAY fire alone could have caused the symetrical free fall implosion into its own footprint that we saw bldg 7 secumb to-- to top it off the bbc was reporting its collapse while it stood behind them proving there was a script-- you also completely ignore the testimony of barry jennings whose credentials cannot be denied who unequivocally states that there were explosions going off in bldg7 BEFORE the collapses-- seems a little relavent dont ya think???

Steel-based structures like WTC 7 are nice geometric boxes. Evidently, it was gutted by fire enough to compromise enough of the injured building, so that the force of gravity did what was easiest- pull it straight down.

Gravity. Straight down in this case. The interior evidently had enough damage and heat across enough critical sites, that it fell apart inside. That brought down the exterior, too.

HOW FAST DID WTC7 FALL?

FIREFIGHTER COMMENTS ON THE SCENE AT WTC7

Collapsing structures always fall downwards - the direction of gravity - unless a sideways forces is applied. An "implosion" style collapse without explosives is perfectly possible in engineering terms if the initiating event, eg a structural element failing, is internal to the building:
http://www.ukfssart.org.uk/structural_collapse.htm
A news organisation reporting a building has collapsed while it is still standing proves there was a scipt? All it proves is that news organisations get things wrong, especially when reporting a rapidly developing story.
I've posted this Barry Jennings link often enough, why don't you try to address it instead of just repeating a claim over and over?
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity....arry_jennings_1
There is considerable doubt about the timing of Jennings' "explosion", which could well have been the building getting hit by debris from the towers. A crucial indicator of this is that Jennings does not mention the tower collapses. If his explosion was not a collapse, where was he when the collapses occured?

And it just so happens a sideways force, ie tilt/pivot, has been present in every high-rise building collapse in history barring 9/11... and controlled demolitions.

Yes, Q. But, how many WTC 9-11 events preceded 2001?

How many similar circumstances pre-existed?

WTC was a landmark event.

thats incorrect-- no matter what aspect of the event you look at it has occured before-- was 9/11 the first airliner to strike a skyscraper???
nope in 1945 the empire state building was struck by a b2 bomber in fog-- here are some images



****************************************************
in the case of bldg 7 was there ever a collpase that was the result of the structural integrity loss of load bearing columns on one side of a building only???

actually there have been many here are four examples


****************************************************
or perhaps you fail to accept the demolition theories due to the way the buildings exploded from the top down????

well sorry to burst your bubble again but yes there are demolition techniques that utilize "unconventional" methods to achieve their end of blowing buildings up from the top down-- here is an example

look familiar???

Do the maths, that impact had only 1% of the energy of the aircraft that hit the WTC towers.

How many of those buildings were steel frame rather than concrete? How many had anything like the height-to-width ratio of the WTC buildings? There is plenty of pre-911 technical literature on progressive structural collapse - mainly in the context of how to prevent it - and the WTC just happened to be the first buildings to be so extensively damaged that it happened.

Nothing like, that building has a series of explosions at selected levels, and if you watch the video - there's a link somewhere in the long thread - they go from bottom up.

please provide your equation! ill show you where you went wrong

bldg 7 was the comparison referenced in the images of the toppled buldings-- your claim is that the penthouse fell due to the damage causing the rest to progressively follow-- but obviously you are wrong as the damage should have caused a topple instead of the freefall implosion witnessed-- a sollid steel core and perimeter would have been even more resilient

yes they go from the bottom up but they were discussing micro seconds-- just like the squibs video taped in the collapse of bldg 7 traveling "UP" the side in the fraction of a second before its implosion-- the panzer building was none the less cut into sections that allowed the top to hammer the bottom using gravity -- of course the wtc demolition would have used a completely unique method relative to the spectacle theatre they were producing

Kinetic energy = 0.5 x mass x (velocity)^2

Solid steel core? Have you any idea at all about structures? Why should a building topple?

All explosive demolitions cut the building up and leave gravity to do the work. The Panzer building just had more horizontal cuts than most.
You do realise that arguing that WTC must have involved a unique method of CD also means that you can't argue that it looked like a normal CD? If you argue both ways, you can fit every scrap of evidence in, just like a creationist saying god created fossils. If your theory can accept any evidence, it is impossible to disprove. A theory that is impossible to disprove, unfalsifiable in the jargon, is worthless.

Have you put this on the other 9/11 thread: To Those Who Believe...

Provocative images...

Wrong. You're ignoring the structural resistance from the rest of the building. It's ridiculous to claim that the top section of a steel-framed hi-rise tower structure can acclerate straight down through the rest of the structure at what would be 75-85% of it's freefall acceleration through air unless the steel-framed structure was being destroyed ahead of the collapsing top. Otherwise, the energy used up in impact and pulverisation would eventually be greater than that which falling section would've had from gravity alone. This has been shown mathematically. The falling section would have to fall off to the side if the damage is uneven, or stop rather early in the collapse unable to go down any further.

If a demolition is "controlled" it occurs in whatever way the person doing the controlling wants. Many seem to think it has to be done only one way.

Top-Down Controlled Demolitions aren't "unique", they're perfectly possible and they look strikingly similar to the towers' collapse.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d77E0E46c2k&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EhPzpdSSSqI

If you're referring to the Ross paper on the subject, it contains a glaring error that rather undermines his argument. There are a couple of other papers that give a different result, consistent with what actually happened.

All those videos show something that isn't similar to the towers' colapses, and that is the obvious explosion of demolition charges.

I notice in this video a remarkable amount of the structure completely removed in the middle of the building. Such pre-weakening is typical of CDs...nowhere evident in the WTC.

It sure was. Something like this had never happened befor and just wow, it happened three times in one day in one city. All 3 buildings fell in the exact same manner. I find that just freaky, imagine the odds.

Not exactly. Two of the buildings had been damaged in similar ways - aircraft impact - and collapsed in similar ways. The third building was damaged in a different way - debris impact from collapsing building - suffered a much longer uncontrolled fire, and collapsed in a different way.

i asked for your equation not the formula used-- my point was to prove that you would be speculating on the figures involved and even worse just plain ignoring many other facts-- you cannot provide what does not exist

yes the wtc towers 1 and 2 had 47 solid steel core box columns that had walls 4 inches thich

actually the whole peremise of the unconventional techniques are to use LESS horizontal cuts than conventional methods -- the end result of any cd is going to be the implosion into its own footprint minimizing damage to surrounding structures regaurdless of HOW it looks

You must have missed these:
http://www.nema.go.kr/eng/m4_samp.jsp
http://www.eng.uab.edu/cee/faculty/ndelatt...za/ambiance.htm
http://ourstory.asia1.com.sg/dream/dleslie.html
All "implosion" types, some with reports of "explosion" sounds.

The B-25 massed about 10 tonnes, a Boeing 767 about 150 tonnes. The B-25 crashed at some 200 mph, the 767s at around 500 mph. Put the figures into the equation, the B-25 impact comes to 1% of the WTC impact energy, as I claimed. What were you going to prove?

A framework involving 47 separate columns is not exactly what is generally understood by "solid".

So what is the significance of the WTC buildings not falling into their footprints but damaging most of the surrounding buildings beyond repair?

The mechanical levels were already mostly empty space, and by the way, the pre-weakening you're talking about isn't always done in the same way.

Could you cite them please. I've never heard of any simulation successfully showed that

Yes, and not all controlled demolitions have such widely timed explosions. Some are more rapid than others. Many of the witnesses described explosions that they heard which were very similar to those of controlled demolitions, however. I'm sure you're aware of this.

Yet all three collapsed straight down at close to freefall speed.

Have you seen any skyscrapers collapse in the same manner without being controlled demolitions?

Occam's Razor. Its the simplest explanation.

A far more unlikely scenario that has already proven unworkable is the hypothesis that jet fuel (that was mostly vaporized outside the buildings), and the plane impacts on two buildings, with the resulting random damage defied the odds and exactly duplicated controlled demolitions on three buildings. This, if true, threatens to put out of work every highly qualified demolition expert on the planet. Their complex calculations and precisely placed demolitions are not needed any more. From now on, a simple smash into the side of a steel framed skyscraper and an hour or so of fires will be judged sufficient to result in rapid vertical collapses every time.

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/b.../Papers/405.pdf
http://winterpatriot.pbwiki.com/f/seffen_simple_analysis.pdf

The question is the timing. The reports of explosions don't coincide with the onset of the collapses. There's even an eyewitness who said something to the effect that someone shouted, he looked up, and the WTC7 was falling. A CD is a very loud event, you wouldn't need someone shouting to draw your attention to it.

Try this for an example:
http://www.eng.uab.edu/cee/faculty/ndelatt...za/ambiance.htm
Here are a couple of interesting quotes:
"The workmen were tack welding wedges under the ninth, tenth, and eleventh floor package to temporarily hold them into position when they heard a loud metallic sound followed by rumbling."
"The entire structure collapsed, first the west tower and then the east tower, in 5 seconds, only 2.5 seconds longer than it would have taken an object to free fall from that height."
"Due to the terms of the settlement, many of the technical lessons that could have been learned from this incident have been lost forever."
Loud noises, fast collapse, lost evidence, so what is so unusual about 911?

Most of an airliner's fuel is carried in the wings. The exit holes were far too small for this to have gone straight through the buildings.
I don't think any CD experts would feel threatened by a rival who damaged most of the surrounding buildings beyond repair.

Apart from the fact it would be quite fraudulent to attempt passing those examples off as anything like the WTC structures, in terms of design or collapse process, after all three failed due to construction error, there is also no evidence of complete near symmetrical collapse.

That's not actually entirely true.


A huge number of witnesses describe the sort of explosions that occur in a controlled demolition. A very common description is that of a very loud explosion (some describe upto 6) at the very beginning of a collapse, Some describe flashes and popping sounds reminiscent of an implosion ring going around the building Also, those witnesses who were actually looking at the time of the first big explosion said that it started the collapse well below the plane impact point - not at the plane impact point.



This Fire Marshal recognised the collapses as being done by explosions, and kept insisting on this even when his father couldn't comprehend it....

FIRE MARSHAL JOHN COYLE thought WCT2 EXPLOSION or bomb on plane

I THOUGHT IT WAS EXPLODING ACTUALLY THATS WHAT I THOUGHT FOR HOURS AFTERWARDS THAT IT HAD EXPLODED OR THE PLANE OR THERE HAD BEEN SOME DEVICE ON THE PLANE THAT HAD EXPLODED BECAUSE THE DEBRIS FROM THE TOWER HAD SHOT OUT FAR OVER OUR HEADS IT WAS RAINING DOWN

(blanked out paragraph)

FINALLY GOT THROUGH ON MY PHONE TO MY FATHER AND SAID I’M ALIVE JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU GO TO CHURCH I’M ALIVE JUST SO NARROWLY ESCAPED THIS THING HE SAID WHERE WERE YOU YOU WERE THERE I SAID YEAH WAS RIGHT THERE WHEN IT BLEW UP, HE SAID YOU WERE THERE WHEN THE PLANES HIT,
SAID “NO WAS THERE WHEN IT EXPLODED, THE BUILDING EXPLODED”
HE SAID “YOU MEAN WHEN IT FELL DOWN”,
SAID “NO WHEN IT EXPLODED.”

From THE NEW YORK TIMES:

Assistant Fire Commissioner: "I thought . . . before . . . No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they . . . blow up a building. . . ?”

Source:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...ory_Stephen.txt

FIRST BIG EXPLOSION WAS BELOW THE PLANE IMPACT AREA
# NYC firefighter: “It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . [W]e originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”

Link to quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyreg...chia_Edward.txt

# From The San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate.com:

Captain of Emergency Medical Services: "somewhere around the middle of the world trade center there was this orange and red flash coming out ... initially it was just one flash then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode ... and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides ... as far as could see these popping sounds and the EXPLOSIONS were getting bigger going both up and down and then all around the building"

Link to quote:
http://sfgate.com/gate/pictures/2005/09/10...rin_deshore.pdf


# "When we got to about 50 feet from the South Tower, we heard the most eerie sound that you would ever hear. A high-pitched noise and a popping noise made everyone stop. We all looked up. At the point, it all let go...
...There was an EXPLOSION and the whole top leaned toward us and started coming down. I stood there for a second in total awe, and then said, "What the F###?" I honestly thought it was Hollywood."

- Eye-witness Jeff Birnbaum, president of Broadway Electrical Supply Co., New York

Link to quote:
http://september11.ceenews.com/ar/electric...trical_supplys/



Firemen recall "detonations" in South Tower:

fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.

fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out ..
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det..
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom ...
fireman1: All the way down, I was watchin it, and runnin'

Video: http://911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos...n_firehouse.mpg

September 12, 2001, New York City, People.com

Louie Cacchioli, 51, is a firefighter assigned to Engine 47 in Harlem.

We were the first ones in the second tower after the plane struck. I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building....

Link to article:
http://prisonplanet.com/louie_cacchioli.htm


# Street Reporter:
"45 minutes into the taping we were doing, there was an EXPLOSION. It was way up where the fire was and the whole building at that point bellied out in flames and everybody ran."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.2.wmv


# Witness / 9-11 survivor:
"I was about five blocks away when I heard EXPLOSIONS... three thuds and turned around to see the building that we just got out of... tip over and fall in on itself."

Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.1.wmv



FIREFIGHTER PATRICK MARTIN

WTC2

My lieutenant said he looked down at the first floor, and he could see the first floor of the south tower like exploding out. I looked up. I looked up, and the sky was filled with that debris cloud.


Stephen Gregory , Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.) flashes, EXPLOSIONS below the plane impact area p 14

I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy,

(Strangely, he talks about West Street, where he saw airplane parts, but nobody, and was wondering, no firefighters or civilians, that they probably must be on the Promenade side)then he says:

page 20 Q. Clearly not building material?
A. No. The building material was sort of gray and you could see it, you know, how it differed from the plane. I was listening to the tape this morning of the people calling up and they were describing the plane that hit the building. Actually, so many people saw it. They actually described the plane as it came in. They said it was a military-type plane and it was green and it was this. I mean, I never saw the color of the plane.

FATHER JOHN DELENDICK FDNY bombs & EXPLOSIONS before WTC2 fell
The top of the building kind of started to rumble, and we all looked up. So his original thought was that he thought it was a bomb up there as well.

I remember asking Ray Downey was it the jet fuel that blew up. He said at that point he thought there were bombs up there because it was too even. We didn't know the building came down. We just knew the top of the building exploded and didn't know what happened to the rest of the building.



LIEUTENANT PATRICK SCARINGELLO EMS

WTC2

I heard the EXPLOSION from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean.

We did go past -- we went up Church, we went up Vesey, past 7 Trade, which at the time didn't look like it was involved


FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BOERI WTC2 EXPLOSION before collapse

We had our backs to the tower and under that pedestrian bridge walking south, myself, Eddie Kennedy and the officer, when you heard the crackling. You looked up and you saw the one floor explode on itself and the top start to slide.



FIREFIGHTER DEAN COUTSOUROS FILE No. 9110049

WTC2, crackling sound, like a million firecrackers

I was directly in the middle of the street on Washington Street and there were three guys behind me and I was right in the middle of the street and that’s when the tower started to come down. I happened to be looking up at it and from the fire floor down it was just really loud crackling noise. It sounded like a million firecrackers and just wave right from the fire floor down. Just wave that started to come down.



FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM REYNOLDS

WTC2- large [b]EXPLOSION below plane impact area before the collapse[/b]

After a while, I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down in a pancake. I remember my jaw dropping and just staring at it and Richard Banaciski, one of the firemen that was there, yelled "Run" and I turned and I started running into the parking garage of the Financial Center.

Q. Bill, just one question. The fire that you saw, where was the fire? Like up at the upper levels where it started collapsing?

A. It appeared somewhere below that. Maybe twenty floors below the impact area of the plane. I saw it as fire and when I looked at it on television afterwards, it doesn't appear to show the fire. It shows a rush of smoke coming out below the area of the plane impact.

The reason why I think the cameras didn't get that image is because they were a far distance away and maybe I saw the bottom side where the plane was and the smoke was up above it.



FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY BURKE WTC2 FILE NO 9110488

WTC2 EXPLOSION before collapse

Then the building popped lower than the fire level which I guess was the aviation fuel fell into the pit and whatever floor it fell on heated up really bad and that’s why it popped at that floor. That’s the rumor I heard, but it seemed like Oh My God There is secondary device that the way the building popped I thought it was an EXPLOSION.

When that happened they all started fading into the garage- masses of people. I’m thinking this building is coming down. So with the amount of people rushing me, we ran through the garage. We kept running through. All of a sudden the noises stopped , the sound of the building falling stopped. We all turned around and it was dark now. We really couldn’t see.


FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER FENYO FDNY WTC2

EXPLOSIONS before collapse

Port Authority transcripts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/29/nyregion...p;ex=1125979200

About a couple minutes after George came back to me is when the south tower from our perspective exploded from about midway up the building. We all turned and ran into the garage. At that point a debate began to rage because the perception was that the building looked like it had been taken out with charges.

FIREFIGHTER HOWIE SCOTT

WTC2

We just made our turn to go in towards the lobby of tower two.

For whatever reason, I just happened to look up and saw the whole thing coming down, pancaking down, and the EXPLOSION, blowing out about halfway up. I remember looking back and noticing that big mushroom cloud just roaring at us like a freight train.



Edward Cachia FDNY WTC2 EXPLOSIONS before collapse
explosion started collapse BELOW the plane impact area

As my officer and I were looking at the south tower, it just gave. It actually gave at a
lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

More EXPLOSIONS witnesses from the WTC

FIREFIGHTER KENNETH ROGERS

WTC2

Meanwhile we were standing there with about five companies and we were just waiting for our assignment and then there was an EXPLOSION in the south tower, this exposure just blew out in flames. A lot of guys left at that point. I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.


EMT MICHAEL OBER WTC2



Then we heard a rumble, some twisting metal, we looked up in the air, and to be totally honest, at first, I don’t know exactly…but it looked to me just like an EXPLOSION. It didn’t look like the building was coming down, it looked like just one floor had blown completely outside of it. I was sitting there looking at it. I just never thought they would around and saw the debris coming down.



FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI WTC2 EXPLOSIONS

On West Street. We reported in to there and I remember they had the command post set up.
We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an EXPLOSION. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these EXPLOSIONS. Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we ran into the parking garage because that's basically where we were. Running forward would be running towards it. Not thinking that this building is coming down. We just thought there was going to be a big explosion and stuff was going to come down.

There was just a tremendous cloud that came into the parking garage. Somebody actually laid out a search rope.


EMT JAMES MCKINLEY

WCT2

Then as I looked up, I saw this helicopter hovering from in front of one of the buildings, it was the first one that was hit. Then all of a sudden I heard this huge EXPLOSION, I didn’t know what it was because nobody was telling me anything. I didn’t know until we were called back to Chambers and something, Chambers and West Street, that it might have been a terrorist attack. I was this close to it, and I didn’t know what was going on. After that I heard this HUGE EXPLOSION, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we’re running. Everyone is, firemen, PD, everyone is running away from the World Trade Center, up Vessey Street. This is North End, we was running around Vessey and around North end to get away from the first smoke. After the first building, I guess, I didn’t know at the time that the building fell. After the smoke cleared, I went back, I was helping some people that were covered in dust and stuff like that.



FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH MEOLA

WCT2

As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.


FIREFIGHTER KEITH MURPHY FDNY

WCT2

I HAD HEARD A DISTANT BOOM BOOM BOOM SOUNDED LIKE THREE EXPLOSIONS RIGHT BEFORE THE LIGHTS in WTC1 WENT OUT. I DONT KNOW WHAT IT WAS. AT THE TIME I WOULD HAVE SAID THEY SOUNDED LIKE BOMBS. THEN I WOULD SAY ABOUT 4 SECONDS ALL OF A SUDDEN TREMENDOUS ROAR. IT SOUNDED LIKE BEING IN A TUNNEL WITH THE TRAIN COMING AT YOU. IT PROBABLY LASTED MAYBE 10 TO 15 SECONDS



FIREFIGHTER THOMAS TURILLI

WTC2

All of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came. My officer knew how to actually get out and and we just walked out of there.

At that point we were kind of standing on the street and I looked to my left and actually I noticed the tower was down. I didn't even know what it was when we were in there. It just seemed like a huge EXPLOSION.


EMT JULIO MARRERO

WTC2

In that process of him trying to explain to me to pull my ambulance over, I heard a loud bang. We looked up, and we just saw the building starting to collapse. I was screaming from the top of my lungs, and I must have been about ten feet away from her and she couldn't even hear me, because the building was so loud, the EXPLOSION, that she couldn't even hear me.



WCT2

I HEARD LIKE A BIG EXPLOSION, TREMENDOUS EXPLOSION, LET ME PUT IT THAT WAY, AND A RUMBLING SOUND. SO ATTEMPTED TO RUN SOME DISTANCE WHICH COULDNT RUN BECAUSE IT OVERTOOK ME LIKE I SAID IT HAPPENED LIKE REALLY QUICK ALSO I FELT MYSELF AIRBORNE. I FELT A FORCE BEHIND ME AND IT SLAMMED ME DOWN ON THE GROUND. I GOT SLAPPED DOWN ON THE GROUND. EVERYTHING STARTED HITTING ME. WHATEVER WAS FALLING AT THE TIME. I DIDNT KNOW WHAT IT WAS. I THOUGHT MAYBE THAT THE BUILDING THAT WAS ON FIRE EXPLODED. I WAS GETTING HIT HARD AND WHEN I FELL ON MY STOMACH FACE DOWN WITH MY HANDS EXTENDED SOMETHING HEAVY FELL ON MY HAND AND BOUNCED OFF AT THAT TIME MY ARM WAS BROKEN .

His conclusions were blanked out



LIEUTENANT JOSEPH PATRICIELLO FDNY

WTC2

As my men went to obtain some extinguishers, I happened to be looking up and saw the EXPLOSION or the building fail with the ensuing fireball and cloud. It didn't appear to me at that moment the building was coming down.

But when the noise level began to pick up, it was obvious that something wrong was going on. We all proceeded to run southwesterly towards Liberty and West. At that point there was debris coming down.



FIREFIGHTER CRAIG CARLSEN -EXPLOSIONS when buildings fell

File No. 9110505 WTC2

I guess about three minutes later you just heard EXPLOSIONS coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about TEN EXPLOSIONS.

....
We made it to approximately Vesey and West, which is just north of the bridge. Then the second building started to come down. At that point everybody just took off in all different directions. As far as I know, we just went north up West Street. I would guess we made it up to Barclay, maybe, and whatever it was knocked us down, the force of the wind. The second one coming down, you knew the EXPLOSIONS. Now you're very familiar with it. Of course when I looked up, all I could see was the antenna coming down.



FIREFIGHTER FERNANDO CAMACHO WTC2 EXPLOSIONS

We went across the lobby of the hotel, going north, and we exited and made a right going towards the second tower, the south tower. We must have walked about 100-200 feet to revolving doors, which led into a hallway to where the mall was. I could see maybe 20, civilians and I believe Ladder 25, which was about another 100 to 150 feet ahead of us. As we came in through the revolving doors, the lights went out. A second or two later everything started to shake. You could hear EXPLOSIONS. We didn't know what it was. We thought it was just a small collapse.

As I looked straight ahead of me, I saw total darkness. Everything was coming our way like a wave. The firefighters that were ahead of us and the civilians that were ahead of us totally disappeared.

We turned around. We were all pretty much within ten feet of each other: lieutenant,chauffeur, roof, OV, can. As we turned around, I ran probably maybe ten feet and that's when the body of the building or body of the collapse hit, and we were flying through the air basically. I must have flown 30, 40 feet through the air. Then total quiet. You couldn't breathe. You couldn't see anything.


CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE EMS
WTC2

I had no clue what was going on. I never turned around because a sound came from somewhere that I never heard before. Some people compared it to an airplane. It was the worst sound of a rolling sound, not a thunder. All I know is –and a force started to come hit me in my back. You had to be there. All I know is that I had to run because I thought there was an EXPLOSION. I thought it was a major EXPLOSION.



FIRE MARSHAL SALVATORE RIGNOLA

WTC2

THERES AN EXPLOSION. ALL OF SUDDEN YOU COULD HEAR SOME WEIRD SOUND LIKE CRUMBLING ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYBODY STARTS RUNNING. I WENT AGAINST THE ESU TRUCK AND ALL OF SUDDEN EVERYTHING GOT BLACK THE WIND BLEW BY. MATERIAL FLEW BY.



EMT JUAN RIOS

WTC2

I was hooking up the regulator to the O-2, when I hear people screaming and a loud EXPLOSION, and I heard like “sssssssss…” the dust like “sssssssss…” So I come out of the bus, and I look and I see a big cloud of dust and debris coming from the glass… through the condominium, the other building, and like, glass falling. So I just started to run, everybody ran, so I just ran. Our bus, it got totaled.



FIREFIGHTER ANGEL RIVERA

WTC2

the chief told us go to the Marriott Hotel, go from the 14th floor up, search and evacuate all the floors. So we walk all the way up, no problem. Then we hear the EXPLOSION and debris falling. We were looking out of the windows and see body parts all over the place.



PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA

WTC2

Q. WHAT DID YOU HEAR? WHAT DID YOU SEE? A. It was a frigging noise at first. At first I thought it was a professional demolition, where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear Pop Pop Pop Pop. That’s exactly what I thought it was when I heard that frigging noise. That’s when I saw the building coming down. I ran as fast as I could maybe half a block and then hid between a building covered myself with a stretcher. That’s when every thing came down. It was very dark for a few minutes.


FIREFIGHTER EDWARD SHEEHEY
Sheehey heard an EXPLOSION before the South Tower started to collapse

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_...

"Q. Where exactly were you when the south tower collapsed?
A. We were proceeding across West Street. We were probably maybe 25 yards from the command post.

Q. South of the command post?
A. Straight across from it, going in towards the south tower. We were probably just at West Street, just at the street. Then the south tower -- we heard an EXPLOSION, looked up, and the building started to collapse.
We dropped all our tools and gear, and we turned around. There was a parking garage to the right of the command post, so we ran down into the parking garage."
"Q. Did you hear any emergency transmissions on the handy talky? Did you have a handy talky?
A. No, I didn¹t have a handy talky.
Q. Did you hear anything being next to
anybody?
A. I heard maydays. As we were at the command post, we heard maydays. I couldn¹t make out what they were for.
Q. Was this before the collapse or after?
A. Before the collapse. Then after the collapse I heard -‹ we looked for someone with a radio, and we found a captain from another engine company. I couldn¹t tell you what company he was from. He was looking for the rest of his men, and he had a handy talky. He said if he heard them calling for us he would let us know. I heard a couple of maydays on his handy talky but couldn¹t make out who was giving them or where they were."



EMT-P ANDRE CHERRINGTON WTC2 Big boom before it fell

So I said, let me take him to the hospital. So as I was pulling off, I’d say about half a block away, we heard a big boom, and we seen a whole bunch of ashes, everything just started coming towards us.



BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN DIXON WTC2

I got just a little ways back and it was just like -- you hear the noise, a boom, and then a blast of air. It just kind of threw me against the wall. That's where I decided to stay. Since it blew me there.



BATTALION CHIEF THOMAS VALLEBUONA

WTC2

I HEARD BOOM AND EXPLODING SOUND, REAL LOUD BANG . I LOOKED UP AND COULD SEE THE TRADE CENTER STARTING TO COME DOWN. THE SOUTH TOWER WHICH I GUESS WAS ABOUT BLOCK AWAY FROM. I SAW STUFF COMING OFF THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. IT LOOKED LIKE A GIANT FOUNTAIN. IT WAS ACTUALLY BEAUTIFUL IN STRANGE WAY.

I REALIZED THAT WE WERENT FAR ENOUGH AWAY FROM THIS BUILDING AND WE WERE GOING TO BE HIT BY STUFF IT SEEMED LIKE YOU COULD JUST SEE STUFF SPIRALING OUT LIKE CONE. SO WE PROCEEDED TO TRY AND OUTRUN IT. MYSELF AND MY AIDE STEVIE ZASA WE WERE HOLDING HANDS WITHIN SECONDS WERE ENGULFED IN CLOUD THAT YOU COULDNT SEE YOUR HANDS IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE IT WAS HARD TO BREATHE IF ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE EATING THE DUST YOU COULD HEAR THINGS FALLING AROUND YOU YOU COULDNT SEE ANYTHING





FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH RAE

WTC2

We started walking north to just about the second footbridge, which would be 6 World Trade, and all of a sudden we heard the EXPLOSION and the building started to come down and I ran


EMT JASON CHARLES

FILE No. 9110486
I HEARD SIX LOUD EXPLOSIONS AND THOSE SIX LOUD EXPLOSIONS CHANGED MY MIND REAL QUICK AND I WENT BACK OVER TO THE TRIAGE CENTER AND IT WAS LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT, LET ME WAIT HERE. I HAD NO HELMET



EMT DAVID TIMOTHY

WTC2

The next thing I heard was a loud like an engine roar. I looked up, and the next thing I knew I just saw -- I don't know if it was the tail end of the plane or what, but I saw something. When I looked up, I heard "boom." Now, when the EXPLOSION hit I don't know if -- it actually took me off my feet, because I fell. I actually got cuts and stuff like that all over my hands and whatnot


FIREFIGHTER FRANK SWEENEY

WTC2

I hear what sounded like firecrackers[b][color] and a low rumble. I look up, and the south tower – I could see the top part of the siding overlapping the bottom side of the siding. The siding actually was like this. Then I saw the dirt above that. I ran. I was right behind Scott. Scott ran into the Winter Garden and got against a concrete pillar



FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY JULIAN

WCT2

We came out from 90 West , made Left, headed East, and right when we got to the corner of Washington and Albany, that’s when we heard the building collapse. I thought it was an [b][color=red]EXPLOSION. I thought maybe there was a bomb on the plane but delayed type of thing, you know secondary device. I was convinced for a week it was secondary devices. I JUST HEARD LIKE AN EXPLOSION AND THEN CRACKING TYPE OF NOISE AND THEN IT SOUNDED LIKE FREIGHT TRAIN RUMBLING AND PICKING UP SPEED.





FIREFIGHTER EDWARD KENNEDY

WCT2

We took two steps, there was a tremendous boom, explosion, we both turned around, and the top of the building was coming down at us. With this I just turned to Richie and said run.



BATTALION CHIEF JOHN SUDNIK

WTC2

THEN WE HEARD A LOUD EXPLOSION OR WHAT SOUNDED LIKE A LOUD EXPLOSION AND LOOKED UP AND SAW TOWER TWO START COMING DOWN.



PARAMEDIC KEVIN DARNOWSKI
3 EXPLOSIONS before WTC2 fell

At that time I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard THREE EXPLOSIONS, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.


BATTALION CHIEF DOMINICK DeRUBBIO - WTC-2 appeared like a timed explosion

I was looking over t h e Winter Garden at the second tower, and then I saw that starting to come down. It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion




EMT MOUSSA DIAZ WTC2, big boom then collapse
When we heard the big boom, I looked up and I just saw the building collapsing.
WTC2 falls it appeared there were explosives planted

“The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall.”




EMT GREGG BRADY 3 EXPLOSIONS in WTC1 before collapse

We proceeded to 3 World Financial Center, the American Express building They set up a triage area in that lobby. ...

At that time, when I heard the THREE LOUD EXPLOSIONS, I started running west on Vesey Street towards the water. At that time, I couldn't run fast enough. The debris caught up with me, knocked my helmet off. I tumbled and then eventually I started running again. I made it behind a building on North End Avenue. I set up a triage area in that corner building and at that time I started treating patients.



FIREFIGHTER KEVIN GORMAN WTC1 EXPLOSIONS, then falls
John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the EXPLOSIONS, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north.


9/11 Rescuer Saw EXPLOSIONS Inside WTC 6 Lobby

In an exclusive Killtown interview, Ground Zero EMT Patricia Ondrovic talks about her harrowing day at the WTC on 9/11. Within minutes after the South Tower collapses, she witnessed the WTC 5 blowing up, cars exploding, and EXPLOSIONS inside the lobby of the WTC 6, all the while narrowly escaping with her own life.
Some highlights:

KT: Did you basically stay around that area before the South Tower collapsed at 9:59 am?

PO: Yes, we were staged waiting for the triage teams to bring us patients when an officer in a white shirt and blue pants (don't know from what agency) said that there was a radio transmission that stated, "Another plane was headed towards us!" We were told to get to our vehicles and get ready to move fast, but it wasn't fast enough. All of a sudden there was a lot of activity within the several agencies there and everyone started to scramble to ready their respective vehicles.

KT: When you were told another aircraft was approaching, was this right before the South Tower collapsed?

PO: Maybe 3 to 5 minutes prior. I don't know if that estimation is correct, but I remember we all had time to take a minute and look into the skies all around to see if we could see anything.

KT: You talked about the cars blowing up in your WTC Task Force interview, correct?

PO: Yes.

KT: Can you estimate how many vehicles blew up around you?

PO: At least three and some were on fire as I was running by. I was still on the south side of Vesey running west. The burning cars were between my ambulance and about the middle of the 6 World Trade where the lobby doors were at.

(...)

KT: When these vehicles blew up, was it kind of like what you would see in the movies where the vehicle pops up in the air when it explodes with a fireball coming out?

PO: I remember parts flying off -- I think I got hit with a car door. I remember they were also on fire, but I don't specifically recall the movie type fireball, but there was a loud bang as the door flew off the one car I was running past.

[b]EXPLOSIONS Inside WTC 6 Lobby[/b]

KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?

PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.

KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?

PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.

KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?

PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.

KT: Could you still hear any of these EXPLOSIONS when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?

PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.

KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be EXPLOSIONS?

PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.

KT: Were the EXPLOSIONS going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?

PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.

KT: Were the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?

PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.

KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?

PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small EXPLOSIONS were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.

Check it out for yourself

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/02/911-r...inside-wtc.html


‘You are being lied to"
featuring a bunch of eye witness comments referring to EXPLOSIONS inside of the WTC.
http://www.mypetgoat.tv/video/Bomb_Montage.WMV


My apologies that this is so long.

I'll deal with Bazant and Zhou seperately.




Responses to Seffen's dodgy paper about the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers


Dr Seffen Paper Proven Ludicrous

Dr Keith Seffen's Folly

Seffen's Folly: attempted HOAX

Dr Keith Seffen's "Mathematical Model Of The WTC Collapse" Is Incoherent, Inappropriate, And Almost Meaningless

BAD SCIENCE - Dr Keith Seffen and the WTC "collapse"

Seffen debunked again...some really silly claims pointed out


No Detectable Respect For Science: False Claims Regarding 9/11 Research Reflect Badly On University Of Cambridge

Seffen's paper may be peer-reviewed but it doesn't refute anything!

And it's already been debunked.

Keith Seffen's reality reversal hits the big time

A response to Seffen's paper by Arkadiusz Jadczyk(his Curriculum Vitae is HERE

Keith Seffen's WTC Collapse Folly: Not Even Wrong
The other day, discussing the subject of modern day scientific research which is most often controlled by politics, I wrote: “The peer-review system has serious flaws. Sometimes completely nonsensical and disinformation papers are published. And quite often good papers are being rejected, because referees have their prejudices and personal interests.” Let me give an example from real life, a sort of “diary of a referee.”

At the end of August, the editors of a professional specialized journal Markov Processes and Related Fields asked me to serve as a referee of a certain paper. One of the authors was an American mathematician, whom I met a few years ago at a conference, the second one, French, from Laboratoire de Recherche en Informatique et ses Applications, whom I did not know. I had a look at the paper, and put it in a drawer – for later. Usually the editors give a couple of months for a review... But then I suffered a hard drive failure, I had to finish my own paper (still waiting to be finished ... ) and also there was the work on publishing of the proceedings of a conference that was held a couple of years ago which Springer publisher is waiting for ....

it's a very long article, the rest is here

- Snip -

There's some really weird things about how fast Bazant submitted his original paper on the WTC collapses. The first one was submitted to the ASCE on the 13th September 2001. Think about how odd that is. So IMMEDIATELY after 9/11, this Bazant guy submits a paper supporting the official story of the WTC collapses. How could he have possibly done any serious scientific investigation on the WTC events and written a paper in just ONE day? It suggests something more sinister-and makes one wonder: did Bazant actually write that paper BEFORE 9/11? Here's a link to it and a scientific critique of it here showing that the paper was badly flawed, with flawed assumptions, and over-simplification.



Some refutations of Bazant & Zhou's 2002 paper showing that it's flawed, and actually rather dodgy (not as bad as Keith Seffen's garbage though - that one qualifies as a hoax, it's so bad)
Recalculating Bazant and Zhou's Overload Ratio
NIST and Dr Bazant - A Simultaneous Failure
DR. BAZANT - NIST's 911 FALL GUY

For starters, let's look at the building you're referring to here. It's not even a steel-frame building,, and wasn't even close to being completed. It was an unstable, dangerously-built weak structure from the very beginning because of all the corner cutting going on with the temporary supports. It's a worse example even than trying to compare a concrete overpass with a skyscraper, making up stories about how the melting of tiny 1/4" dowels proved something.




Most of the fuel was vapourised in those beautiful impact fireballs too. You do recall that the firemen in the radio transcripts and survivors who were at the impact levels saw only dying fires and lost of smouldering?



I agree, which is why the official story really sucks as an explanation for the destruction of the Twin Rowers and WTC 7. Apart from that, in such close urban confines as the World Trade Center complex was in, any form of controlled demolition of those two whopping great big 110-storey buildings would've resulted in massive amounts of damage to nearby property anyway. Can you imagine how costly that would be? Silverstein would've been bankrupted by a "legal" controlled demolition - putting the blame on foreign terrorists avoids so much of the hassles, don't you think?