This is something that's odd, has alway's intrigued me ever since I can remember, what is happening at the very edge of our known Space?? Is there more Space beyond Space? Or doe's it loop back in some kinda vortexial way? Is it a dimensional hole? Apart from that restaurant that's there little is known of this strange unexplored or seen Zone. If it is truely expanding, then what is it expanding into? More Space? I know this subject will possibly hurt some head's but I would really like to KnoW your thought's on this as I'm sure no thoery can be disproven, and more importantly no law's will be effected? Are we in the centre or left of centre? Top or bottom? Can it be possible that beyond Space is nothing, Ouch my head hurt's HELP....??? Below is all the picture's I could get of this area!! Beyond Mystery?

There's no "beyond space" in the same sense that there is no "before time." It's a fundamental quantity, which is to say it can't be known via other quantities, and other quantities are in fact defined in terms of it. It can be (and is) defined only operationally, by arbitrary units of measurement. In philosophical terms, it's an a priori assumption.

When physicists say that space is expanding, they mean only that distances between any two points in the universe are increasing. They don't mean that space is a container that is expanding into a spacelessness "outside" of it, just as time is not understood as proceeding into any sort of timelessness that comes "after" it.

What's "there" outside space? The answer isn't exactly "nothing." A better answer is, there is no "there" there.

Can it be possible that space is nothing? Yes, in a sense.

Anyway, your head will hurt less if you don't try to define space in terms of anything outside it or more fundamental than it. You'll be relieved to know that the reason it makes your head hurt is that it can't be done. It helps me to think of space as a relationship between physical bodies, and without any physical bodies, there is no space. I think that's close to the right way to see it.

Yes Space and time are interrelated , but Space is defined as an area which is empty?? I don't get that bit ? Empty Space nothingness? O.k we have Space between between things but I'm talking about Beyond Space. Nice answer boorite, but not conclusive, added sight but the whole conception is? Please don't email S.H. This really is a good question for Physicists and Astral traveller's alike.

What is giving you a headache is that you are beginning to understand that "talking about Beyond Space" is strictly impossible, and yet you are still trying to do it.

I suppose that it might help you to choose a definition of "space" before trying to ask what might be "beyond" it.

"'Impossible" something that can not happen! that's great so your saying Its impossible that Space is Infinate or has boundarys? Where's the limit, if your talking impossible then Space can't happen, but we know it doe's so I,m wondering were this limiting point is?....

"no before time" is misconceptual I can not relate to that? what do you perceive the beggining of time to be?? Space /Time we are starting to get fundamental observation, I thank you, ?????????????????

No. What I said was really simple.



I don't know what this means or if it is a question or a statement or what.



Seems to be around 15 billion years ago. Whenever it was, there is no "before" that. Similarly, if time stretches back infinitely, then there is no "before" it. Time is a fundamental quantity. And so is space. Neither can be stated in any terms that are more basic than themselves. Furthermore, the nature of language is such that you can't even compose a sentence that does not assume the existence of both. For these reasons, it is impossible to talk about "beyond space" or "before time" or indeed "after" time. It is strictly nonsensical.

The conceptual error that many people make is to think of space as a container, and so if space is expanding, then it must be expanding into something, even if that something is said to be "nothing." That's incorrect. Space is all the space there is, and there is nowhere for it to expand "into." It just expands, i.e., points in space get farther apart over time.

"before" A strange statement as the word itself mean's something before it!"time is a fundamental quality.And so is space."So your saying something before Space/Time, I wonder What?

No, that is not what I wrote there. Never mind.

Hey there BELOWIM ,

I remember there was this fascinating thread about "nothing being something" by our UM friend BraveNewWorld recently . Check it out .

Oh , and welcome on the UM .. with such questions and thoughts , i'm sure u'll love it . Enjoy .

Oh , and by the way , regarding your initial thought about space ... i think there are parallel spaces .. beyond ours .. alternative spaces .. something to do with multiplicity !
Probably the same way all info about our DNA is found in every shread of a cell of our body . Over and over and over .

whoever think of this...their head is going to hurt for sure.........
no one can find we are in left or right or etc...............it is expandind to more space.that is true.but how more it will expand and i wonder how its corner will be............still many questions will rise up

Thank's Sama, meanwhile. Oh my gosh! I posted this topic for the reason of my first statement. To throw idea's around. I would just as rather hear from a 5 year old that BELOWIM this is what is happening .its? or the scientist who invented the world's most powerful telescope and see's? or an astral traveller who's been there? or the alien from planet Zeta X who live's next to the border?or the mathamatician who equate's O+U-T / T-HxE*R=E? or the prophet that see's ? or the dreamer? When I said my head hurt's was a metaphor for LOL. Thinking outside the box is grand, here's the oppurtunity to do that. It's about imagination and speculation alike, maybe I should have put this topic in the funny's but it is real and is Unexplained? And a Mystery? As far as I'm concerned it could be where the God's go on there off day's to play hockey? LOL I actually have a theory on this but that's to come?..................Show me your idea's that's the challenge ALL?

Whats beyond space is that the question? I would propose more space. But the edge of space I suppose if it was finite would meet with non-space. But then I could ask if there is a location where non-space and space meet, whats on the other side of the non-space. I would have to assume more space or a third type of existence being niether space nor non-space. And since the non-space would not be space it would seem that we would not observe the edge of space and non-space meeting but rather the edge of space and more space, or space and the 3rd existence of niether space nor non-space. but since this 3rd existence is not non-space it would have propeties of space and non-space, and it would ultimatley be the edge of where space meets space or where space meets lesser space.

Heres another possiblity. Space does not exist as we percieve it. Remove time from the equation for a second. Imagine everything wrapped up into a sphere. Every single possible wave of existence throughout all times except for time itself is observable in this sphere. One possible scenario overlaps another in this sphere sharing the same space just existing spearately in separate times. But since we took time out of the equation we see no difference from location (a) in space from location ( in space because of the maximum denseness of the space filled and overlapped with infinite possibilites. Possiblities are truley infinite because you can always add a duplicate changing the sum but for the sake of visualizing it we restrict everything into a sphere. Now lets take the infinite length of time and fit it into a sphere of equal size. now overlap these spheres. One solid sphere of spactial existences in every possible possiblity being interlaced with a sphere of an infinite line of time(I imagine this would look like a sphere of nerve branches so dense there is no recognition of where the branches are. Now with gravity we can both pull and push the speheres opposite eachother to rotate them in differentiated revolutions. The intersection of a single unit of space and time could then be labeled as a single perspective. In this scenario the only border of space is when time is not intersecting with it and this could if time and space were in separate spheres, so what if we put them both back into one sphere so they share equall size and there is no unit of space without a unit of time in its space. Here there is no boundary. Space and time are all there is. It's just infinite.

I've always wondered this myself. And no one's explaination seems to satisfy the answer. I honestly think that's because the truth is....... we don't know.

That was a great read too animalistic, I congratulate on what was obviously deep thought and your observations are good theory. The idea of non-Space is interesting. So we now have two fundamental constant's which are Space and Time, these are not enough to work with! I need more??? This beat's the pant's off of talking about Alien boogie being's in my book! Beside's that it's our Space not their's, LOL. I think might hereby declare a Name for this Region/Border I,ll call it The Never Never.

I like to think of the Stephen King explanation in It - beyond the end of the universe are the deadlights...

"Work hard, keep the ceremonies, live peacably, and unite your hearts. – Hopi" No argument. Space within is also Space without! And????????........

As I have stated, two fundamental constant's have been observed, Space, Time; I'll throw some more in to this expanding story Light and sound, obviously still more are required to fully observe this Never Never, can anyone help?..

super string theory states that out universe could be curved like a calabi-yau shape or could be shaped like a giant torus (do-nut) I would think that space`s ending is always being pushed back (inflation)

space could expand into more space but mathematically we see that the universe is at a constant size in a multi-verse but the space is being created and krimping in higher dimensions, the size of our universe is larger on the inside than on the outside (I like to call this the TARDIS effect)

Great work dest titor1 I commend you on that, Now we have Space>Time>Light>sound and now Gravity but still more are required to fully comprehend the Never Never region/border!? Remember this is about Beyond the Border's of Space!>>>>>?<<<<<

O.K.one more, I,ll add,Space>.Time>Light>sound>Gravity>Frequency> Please?! c,mon?

I think, to be put quite simply, that space is forever. If you are in your imaginary little spaceship and keep going, then there will be a point where you pass the last star and continue into eternal blackness. Of course, as the universe expands, that space will fill up more.


I don't think time has anything to do with it except for its passing being relative to our universe's expansion.

So you,re expanding into you,re own eternal blackness, Sorry don"t do that! see PsiSeeker, He might be able to Help you, but with that Theory ? don,t hold your Breath! LOL..

There is no beyond Space therefore there are no borders. Maybe if you imagine Space as being like our planet, it's completely spherical. So if you were to fly in your spaceship in space you would go on forever, like you would on Earth. Now with me saying it's spherical means that at some point you may end up back where you started. OK I made up this theory, but I think it may be one of the theories that physicists have hypothesised. Has it been disproven? Space is constantly changing and expanding, so you may never now how large it is. Plus Space isn't a complete sphere anyway, it has many bumps in it. You wouldn't know you were travelling on a Space bump because in our dimension it all seems flat to us. OK I'm confusing myself and it's got me thinking, maybe someone can expand what I've said...

light in theory a fundamental particel even in string theory, time is supposed to have begun just before the big bang (BTB before the bang) when things were chaotic and supposedly more like a Newtonian concept of compressed super plasma then in the great inflation that put a stop to that form of time/space, space? no one knows it seems that space is an inter spacial element, one in which all exists (in one way or another)

for their to be a normal universal idea we need the idea of boundary of space, if not fundamental elements of space & time could very wildly (also interesting fact gravity under special conditions is REPULSIVE)

Samo8 That was a work of art, good one.. dest titor1 is a legend, The other thing that need's to be taken in to account is the Chaos- Theory.

Lol, this topic has been discussed a fiew times on this forum and never really gets old *thinks.*

Why is it assumed that space has a border? Think for a second, why would there even be a border? A border of what? Space? If something is expanding and it has a "border" or "edge" to it then what exactly happens to the centre of the universe and the actual surface of this "border?" What's it being filled with the could induce expansion? A balloon doesn't expand on its own, it needs air or it needs the air pressure on the outside to be less than the air pressure on the inside... I doubt either is happening to the universe.

If your bored have a read through this thread only posted a little while ago, its the closest I could find on the topic, see what you think.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=106727

I assumed there was time before the big bang, or whatever caused the creation of the universe. I assumed there was a nothingness there, but it still existed as nothingness, hence it travels along times.

I believe that there was something before the big bang too, and something obviously happened that caused it to bang. At some point the universe may stop expanding and reverse it's way to a big crunch (which is a famous hypothesis). I can imagine like I said before, Space is like the surface of a ball, or even the surface of a cone, which is currently expanding at the moment. Therefore there are no borders as you can only travel along the surface. If you imagine Space like a grid, the grid is getting larger and larger, and so the cone surface is stretching longer and longer. At some point the grid may stop expanding, but shrink the other way. When the cone finally crunches into a point, it may bang into another cone the other way. What you get is an expanding and shrinking of the universe, due to the oscillation of Space Time.

This hypothesis is Copyright Samo =)

Concept's can and do cause confusion, this subject was called Beyond the Border of Space., people are assuming that that mean's like Out There!? Border's also occur within defined region's? correct me if I,m wrong!?

Thank's PsiSeeker for the link,and no I was'nt bored, I don't Know what that is,LOL, interesting read but, I,m thinking Infinity which is a headache in it self,LOL, but Border's Are and as such, are Apparent but are integral of the whole!?! so we are left to seek within the....?

It's nice trying to understand things beyond our comprehension. I go with the theory that space is infinite. Granted, i struggle to imagine what infinite would be like but i can live with that.
I think it is a very human idea for something to have a beginning and an end, same with the concept of things having borders.

1.618 "It's nice trying to understand things beyond our comprehension. I go with the theory that space is infinite. Granted, i struggle to imagine what infinite would be like but i can live with that.
I think it is a very human idea for something to have a beginning and an end, same with the concept of things having borders.".... I'm Thinking here that now; Beyond the Border/s of Space is actually within our known area of Space even down here on earth too, possibly? I,m coming to the somewhat bizarre theory, that known region's such as black hole's, Kerr black hole's and similar gravitational anomaly's are these border area's. As far as what is on or in these entitie's (if that's the right word to use?) is speculation, doe's anyone subscribe to the possibility that they are maybe some form of dimensional gate? or time gate? maybe both? Any other explanation's?..

After my last post on this subject, I,m asking reader's to seriously consider what is in these explained border's?..and how they might effect us on this level/?

I like Samo8's ball analogy. Except I'd like to expand on that. I see the universe a four dimensional shape rather than a 3-D ball. That way the whole 3-d universe can exist on it's surface alone.

So a 4-D version of a ball. Think of a ball as a 3 dimensional equivelent of a circle, this is a 4 dimensional equivalent of a ball.

And then think of it expanding or contracting like a balloon.

Hence we have a 3 dimensional space (the surface of a 4-d object) that expands and contracts and yet has no beginning and end, much like a ball or balloon's surface has no beginning or end.

I think your being limited by your perception to this 3d-4d format, BEYOND the Border, there Is more...6D +?

Yeah maybe more dimensions who knows? Say we existed as drawings on a flat piece of paper. How would we ever know about the 3 dimensional world beyond our piece of paper if we are trapped within it?

InsOmniac,"Yeah maybe more dimensions who knows? Say we existed as drawings on a flat piece of paper. How would we ever know about the 3 dimensional world beyond our piece of paper if we are trapped within it?" O.K. now I come along and put pin pricks through your paper/reality, now we have alternate reality's popping up all over the place?Is this what Worm, black, kerr black hole's and more are?Gravitational anomaly's Are?....

I don't have any original thoughts on this topic, but I've just been reading Stephen Hawkins 'Brief history of Time' book, and some of it seems to have a bearing on this topic.

In terms of both Relativistic and Quantum Physics, the point of the 'Big Bang' is THE BEGINNING. There is no 'before' the big bang. Or rather... because both Relativistic and Quantum mathmatics break down at such high energy levels, the concept is deemed to be 'unexplorable' or even 'irrelevant'. No activity that happens 'before' the big bang would be able to influence our subsequent universe (because any such activity wouldn't be able to pass "forwards in time" through the Big Bang singularity. Hence it can have no part in shaping our universe. )

In terms of General Relativity, the universe is (probably) finite, but unbound. In other words, it kinda curves in on itself. If you fly 'outwards' from earth in a 'straight line', then you will eventually end up back on earth ! (but in practice you won't be able to do it, because you will never be able to travel fast enough to overcome the expansion of the universe itself... in other words the 'finishing line' will be forever receding away from you).

This assumes an infinitely expanding universe... there are problems with that to do with heat levels, but I'm not sure anyone has got a definitive answer to that one.

On this basis, it's tempting to think of the universe as a balloon that is inflating, with us being 2-dimensional creatures on the surface of the ballon. We can travel along the surface, but we cannot travel into the centre of the balloon, or above its surface. However, this is misleading.

There is no 'edge of space', nor is space 'expanding' into 'something' (even though our universe IS expanding).

As another poster mentioned, this is as much a problem with our language as anything. We are trying to interpret a 4-dimensional (at least) universe, using 3-dimensional syntax and world-viewpoints.

Meow Purr.

No one knows, and no one will ever know. The universe is an expanse, that is expanding faster than light - so to speak - We can only hypothesize as we will never reach the borders of space. No matter how fast you go, you can't catch up.

Think of it like this, there is something beyond the borders, but at the same time nothing.

Nothing is the absense of something, so nothing is something. However, perhaps existance is not outside of the borders until the space border expands into it, creating nothing and eventually that nothing creates something.

Chokmah "Nothing is the absense of something, so nothing is something. However, perhaps existance is not outside of the borders until the space border expands into it, creating nothing and eventually that nothing creates something." That statement has got my brain(that one lonely cell) working overtime! As i,ve stated the Border's to me are internal, the problem now is to see inside these in(f)(t)ernal Regions?. Answer's? Idea's?

as i said in another post....
Where ever there is nothing there is something.

Maybe the universe is just an atom of something larger within another universe

I see Beyond this Border To Another Time, through the Warp of Space and Time, Beyond the region of the ultimate Border, and in to our very History, Intellect, Knowledge, And after the Fact, Perceive Space, Time, Distance, Reality, and our Destiny, now comments please...

ive mensioned the same word for the past 2 days since i found out about the website in every topic about what the universe is expanding into etc and im starting to get bored with it already lol but back to my answer i believe its time