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Incorrigible1
I've heard this story from (it seems) every state imaginable. Cougars (mountain lions) have been planted in a given area, usually to deal with the overpopulation of deer. It's done clandestinely, without the knowledge of the state's citizens. Sometimes, it's at the behest of insurance agencies, complaining of too many vehicle/deer collisions.

It doesn't matter that male cougars are known to move (sometimes) hundreds of miles to establish a new territory.

MANY states have citizens willing to swear that their state game authorities are secretly releasing wild cougars within their jurisdiction.
Godofcats
QUOTE (Incorrigible1 @ Oct 21 2007, 09:15 AM) *
I've heard this story from (it seems) every state imaginable. Cougars (mountain lions) have been planted in a given area, usually to deal with the overpopulation of deer. It's done clandestinely, without the knowledge of the state's citizens. Sometimes, it's at the behest of insurance agencies, complaining of too many vehicle/deer collisions.

It doesn't matter that male cougars are known to move (sometimes) hundreds of miles to establish a new territory.

MANY states have citizens willing to swear that their state game authorities are secretly releasing wild cougars within their jurisdiction.


i believe it......i've actually had a run in with a cougar (and i'm not making it up some people may think because of my name). one evening it was almost dark but i could still see clearly me and my girlfriend were leaving her moms house. her mom lives in the middle of nowhere in the woods. we go out to the drive way to the car and i hear this growling i'm talking scary mean growling in front of me. i look up and by the chicken pen my girlfreinds mom has about i guess 10 yards in front of me i see a scary a$$ big cat that looks mad as hell. we were scared as hell we started walking back slow and of course burst out running. thank god it didn't run after us. i came back out with a shot gun minutes later it was gone.....i even found it's foot prints in the woods the next day. only thing is we live in ohio.......there's not supose to be cougars in ohio. unless the thing i saw was a cat that somebody gave way to much steriods that cougar had to get there some how. we actually contacted animal control....they told us it couldn't have been a cougar it was a bobcat....i know what a bobcat looks like this was a couagar i'm an exspert on cats.....i have stacks of books and videos all about them.
Gatofeo
Cougars and bears have experienced a significant population increase because of the current distate for furs. There are fewer trappers today than there were even 10 years ago. The distaste for hunting these animals has also led to prohibitions or strict controls on their hunting, which allows their population to increase.
The same distaste for hunting deer has also increased their population, which naturally adds to the increase of natural predators.
It's just biology at work, not some nefarious government agency.
As lawsuit-happy as America is, do you honestly think that any state game agency --- which is always underfunded because its budget comes from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses and not the state budget --- would risk massive lawsuits in the event a cougar attacked a hiker?
Not a chance.
kiddglock
QUOTE (Gatofeo @ Oct 22 2007, 02:13 AM) *
Cougars and bears have experienced a significant population increase because of the current distate for furs. There are fewer trappers today than there were even 10 years ago. The distaste for hunting these animals has also led to prohibitions or strict controls on their hunting, which allows their population to increase.
The same distaste for hunting deer has also increased their population, which naturally adds to the increase of natural predators.
It's just biology at work, not some nefarious government agency.
As lawsuit-happy as America is, do you honestly think that any state game agency --- which is always underfunded because its budget comes from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses and not the state budget --- would risk massive lawsuits in the event a cougar attacked a hiker?
Not a chance.


I am neither speaking for nor against this theory. Your logic has a gaping hole in it, however. If it is being done clandestinely, how is the damaged party ever going to prove the state was behind the cougar being there to attack the hunter? There has never been such a lawsuit that I know of, let alone one successfully prosecuted. There have been lawsuits suing the state over deer hitting vehicles as the state claims to own all wildlife collectively and is known to have programs to reinstate deer specifically. As to the best of my knowledge, none have ever been successful.

As an aside, I've heard the same thing said about poisonous snakes. Helicopters dropping boxes of them in certain areas to reinstate them in their natural habitat. Wolves too.
Gatofeo
"... If it is being done clandestinely, how is the damaged party ever going to prove the state was behind the cougar being there to attack the hunter?"
--- Kidglock

My logic is not unsound, but perhaps requires a qualfier.
Such a program would eventually become known. People in the clandestine program will eventually talk. And when they do, the lawyers won't be far behind.
Many years ago, a detective told me that most crimes get solved because someone talked.
The inability of humans, especially groups of humans (as in an agency) to keep a secret is well known.
Therefore, I don't believe this rumor. Any game department would soon realize that keeping such a program secret would be impossible. And when the story broke, it would break big --- not as a post on the internet.
This would be huge news. It would destroy any game department that participated, or had knowledge of it.
For this reason, I believe any and all game departments would steer clear of such a hare-brained scheme. The risks of lawsuits would far outweigh any benefit.
kiddglock
QUOTE (Gatofeo @ Oct 24 2007, 03:49 AM) *
"... If it is being done clandestinely, how is the damaged party ever going to prove the state was behind the cougar being there to attack the hunter?"
--- Kidglock

My logic is not unsound, but perhaps requires a qualfier.
Such a program would eventually become known. People in the clandestine program will eventually talk. And when they do, the lawyers won't be far behind.
Many years ago, a detective told me that most crimes get solved because someone talked.
The inability of humans, especially groups of humans (as in an agency) to keep a secret is well known.
Therefore, I don't believe this rumor. Any game department would soon realize that keeping such a program secret would be impossible. And when the story broke, it would break big --- not as a post on the internet.
This would be huge news. It would destroy any game department that participated, or had knowledge of it.
For this reason, I believe any and all game departments would steer clear of such a hare-brained scheme. The risks of lawsuits would far outweigh any benefit.


You're still making several leaps of faith or assumptions. For one thing, the inability of humans to keep a secret is widely thought to be very large. That doesn't mean it is. Where are the studies? Lots of secrets have been revealed. The ones that haven't are, by definition, still secret. lol

Just because some detective told you so doesn't make it true. I could tell you that most crimes are solved because somebody makes a mistake. I would be correct, but there is no real way to prove it.

It would only be "big news" if those who own the presses deem it so.

You again assume that the department would be destroyed. In my experience, they'd just blame it all on the old head that they'd sacrifice. They'd then replace the old one with a new one and it would be bidness as usual.
HollyDolly
I don't think the game and wildlife department are bringing in cougars to control deer at all.
I live in a town where there is a farmer who still has cattle,even though the town is listed as the no.1 place in Texas to live by Money Magazine.
The area around Schertz and Cibolo was at one time mainly countryside.I've seen deer,rabbits and even a coyote years ago.As people move into the areas once wooded and wilderness, the animals get driven out.
That's why you have reports of bears or cougars in populated areas.Heck I've seen possums and skunks in town.

In fact in northern San Antonio they closed for awhile two natural areas.One was Friedrich Park,and I forgot the name of the other one. They were closed because a cougar was spotted in the area of Friedrich Park.There is still alot of wilderness above San Antonio up in the hills.Though at the rate they keep building,who knows how long that will last.
Also out there is Camp Bullis and Camp Stanley,both owned by the US Government.They have army manuvers out there.Before 9-11 you could drive through Camp Bullis,but not any longer.

Since the place is wilderness and not open to the public,there probably are big cats out there.
As you say the cougars do go many hundreds of miles as do bears,etc. So I think this story is an urban legend.

Speaking of deer,I had gone to the H.E.B.Grocery Store in Universal City last night.While driving home down a street
I saw several deer.While there are commerical buildings there,there is still alot of woods between Pat Booker Road and
Loop 1604.People just need to be careful in areas with high deer populations.
Godofcats
as a person who witnessed a cougar and known others who witnesses cougar sightings in ohio where there is not suppose to be cougars it's kind of strange. thousands these cougars are sighted all over in the midwest (ohio, kentuky, indiana, illinios). some people have actually hit and killed cougars with cars. the supicious thing is the police, animal control, and science all denie they're existance east of the mississippi like they are some kind of u.f.o's. as a exspert on cats i can tell you the cougar use to live all over the united states until european settelers basicly made them exstinced in the eastern u.s. i know the cougar might now be moving into new territorry because of it's huge territorial range and because of more houseing out west. also it's a possibility that the settlers didn't completely wipe out all of the cougars in the east. but just plain denieing sightings and reports is extremly strange. what you'll get if you report a run in with a cougar "it wasn't a cougar it was a bobcat good day".
tubbs
QUOTE (Incorrigible1 @ Oct 21 2007, 08:15 AM) *
I've heard this story from (it seems) every state imaginable. Cougars (mountain lions) have been planted in a given area, usually to deal with the overpopulation of deer. It's done clandestinely, without the knowledge of the state's citizens. Sometimes, it's at the behest of insurance agencies, complaining of too many vehicle/deer collisions.

It doesn't matter that male cougars are known to move (sometimes) hundreds of miles to establish a new territory.

MANY states have citizens willing to swear that their state game authorities are secretly releasing wild cougars within their jurisdiction.



In Bremen Alabama i have heard they dropping wolves off also b/c of the over population of deer....... some pple have seen them in thier back yards and shot them but idk...
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