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William B Stoecker
After steam and other heat engines were devised, physicists began researching the flow of heat and energy, and derived the first two laws of thermodynamics. The first one states that mass energy cannot be created or destroyed, and the second says that energy spreads out over time, energy differentials flatten out, and the energy becomes less and less available for work. This was expanded to a general law that, throughout the universe, disorder increases over time, and entropy, or disorder, increases. The problem is that they may have generalized too much, for, looking at the universe as a whole, it seems to be getting more orderly, not less. Using conventional physic's own "big bang" theory, the universe at the instant of its beginning was incredibly hot and dense, with no stratification of structure: in other words, a state of maximum entropy. Over time, subatomic particles and then atoms developed, a clear increase in order, and then stars and solar systems with internal structures, and hierarchically ordered galaxies and galactic clusters, chemical compounds, minerals, and life. This seems to be the very opposite of entropy. William B Stoecker
jaylemurph
To beat an old drum, William, just because you haven't spent the time to learn the answers to these questions doesn't mean there /aren't/ answers.
Perhaps someone with more time on their hands will break this down and do your homework for you.

--Jaylemurph
Harte
QUOTE (William B Stoecker @ Oct 23 2007, 11:21 AM) *
After steam and other heat engines were devised, physicists began researching the flow of heat and energy, and derived the first two laws of thermodynamics. The first one states that mass energy cannot be created or destroyed, and the second says that energy spreads out over time, energy differentials flatten out, and the energy becomes less and less available for work. This was expanded to a general law that, throughout the universe, disorder increases over time, and entropy, or disorder, increases. The problem is that they may have generalized too much, for, looking at the universe as a whole, it seems to be getting more orderly, not less. Using conventional physic's own "big bang" theory, the universe at the instant of its beginning was incredibly hot and dense, with no stratification of structure: in other words, a state of maximum entropy. Over time, subatomic particles and then atoms developed, a clear increase in order, and then stars and solar systems with internal structures, and hierarchically ordered galaxies and galactic clusters, chemical compounds, minerals, and life. This seems to be the very opposite of entropy. William B Stoecker

Maybe to you, but not to any first year thermodynamics student.

Entropy is not measured in any way by the completely subjective idea of "order verses disorder."

Entropy is the measure of energy waste in a closed system. An intrinsic loss of energy that happens no matter what you do to prevent it.

So, no, the universe is not a demonstration of the "opposite" of entropy.

A star represents a lower energy level than the collection of dust and gas that makes a star. Atoms represent a lower energy level than a collection of dissociated subatomic particles. BTW, think of the energy required to dissociate an atom and think of the energy released from the "missing mass" portion of a nucleus (atomic bomb) to see why the atom represents a lower energy level.

Harte
Memnoch
Thanks to Harte for writing the explanation



QUOTE (William B Stoecker)
Over time, subatomic particles and then atoms developed, a clear increase in order, in order, and then stars and solar systems with internal structures, and hierarchically ordered galaxies and galactic clusters, chemical compounds, minerals, and life.


it's where you got it wrong.
dcman
QUOTE (Memnoch @ Oct 23 2007, 05:16 PM) *
Thanks to Harte for writing the explanation





it's where you got it wrong.



Is there entropy in entangled atoms???

Entanglement at Big Bang, Interconnectedness...some discussions:

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5619

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=5490

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=2787

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls...angled+atoms%22
dcman
QUOTE (dcman @ Oct 23 2007, 07:35 PM) *



This one is spooky:
http://www.quantumfields.com/jmaclay_finalP1.pdf
BELOWIM
I Am still trying real hard to comprehend why these subject's of Energy are under Extraterrestrial Life and UFO phenomenom? http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/co...darkmatter.html http://www.entropylaw.com/
Repoman
QUOTE (dcman @ Oct 23 2007, 03:50 PM) *

I wrote a short story about using ionic entanglement as a communication device 6 or 7 years ago. When I read this paper I had a really weird feeling. I sure hope they make him build an actual working version before he gets to patent it....
BELOWIM
It,s really about Singularity's...
BELOWIM
I think your a spy, Comment?
Harte
It is impossible for quantum entanglement to be used to transmit information, other than the quantum information the particle is supposed to convey.

Harte
BELOWIM
Harte, "It is impossible for quantum entanglement to be used to transmit information, other than the quantum information the particle is supposed to convey." LOL! laugh.gif
Harte
QUOTE (BELOWIM @ Oct 25 2007, 11:50 AM) *
Harte, "It is impossible for quantum entanglement to be used to transmit information, other than the quantum information the particle is supposed to convey." LOL! laugh.gif

Posted like a person completely ignorant of quantum chromodynamics.

Harte
BELOWIM
Harte, "It is impossible for quantum entanglement to be used to transmit information, other than the quantum information the particle is supposed to convey." LOL! I was not criticizing, you misunderstood me Harte, if you read your statement, it has an element of humour! Quantum entanglement is an area of science that will one day dominate the way we look at information, the way we communicate secretly and the way our computers do their thing. Problem is, it's really confusing! Quantum entanglement is a vital part of some of the new quantum technology, but unfortunately it is shrouded in mystery, partly because entanglement is inherently strange, but also because it can be very confusing to understand. Quantum entanglement is something that even Einstein had a little difficulty with, so it's certainly no walk in the scientific park....
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