Hi guys,

This might be in the wrong forum, but I saw this today and thought it was pretty interesting. A couple of studies try to explain why some people experience NDE's, and which part of the brain might be responsible for it. The only problem is, these NDE's occur when a patient is clinically BRAINDEAD.





Read the whole thing by clicking here!

This is really interesting. I've read lots of stuff on Near Death Experiences but haven't come across this article before. Good find.

I had what could be described as a NDE on the operating table once when I was clinically dead for nearly 2 mins and it involved all the usual things people describe like bright lights and tunnels. I was very aware of seeing a couple of members of my family who said it wasn't my time and I had to go back, but I was very aware of the fact that I thought I was dead and I didn't want to die so I was very upset. It was like I was over the top of the operating table looking down and I could see what was happening to my body and how aggresively the docs were working on my body to bring me back.

When I was resussed, the doctors said I immediately started crying even though I was under very deep anaesthesia and shouldn't have been able to cry.

I don't know what it was, but it wasn't particularly scary, very peaceful infact but I do remember thinking very very clearly, so I don't really think I was as 'dead' as they thought I was. I didn't see angels or anything which leads me to believe there was a heaven waiting for me...

I think of it more as an out of body experience brought on by the aneasthetic and a sudden severe drop in heart rate and blood pressure, which is technically what 'killed' me for those couple of minutes. I was certainly coherent (in my mind, in it's anaethetised state) and thinking clearly whilst they were resussing me and I could definetely feel pain.

It's a good talking point at parties though!

i've had 2 nde's myself and i was revived i had much the same expirence both times, but it is to me unknown if it was the true after life i saw or if it was just a dream my brain made to cope with the fear of death, there would be equally opposing sides if i told the story, but i do believe in an afterlife it makes sense to me but those are my ideas.

These are the types of happenings that intrigue me the most. How could a person have a halucination that is as vivid as real life when the brain is not fully functional? If it's possible, then why must we use a fully functioning brain to experience reality? People can remember and describe the NDE clearly, yet a person who was drunk the night before can sometimes not recall the entire night because of the brain's inability to function properly! This to me suggests that it is a REAL experience, and not a halucination.

Exactly, Zero, that is the mystery. If we need most of our normal functioning brain parts to just be conscious, then how can we have new memories if our brain was supposedly not functional at all? Whether something happened to these people when they were supposedly dead is one thing, but the fact is they have new memories stored in their head, and no matter what the memories are, they shouldn't have been able to form because the brain was inactive.

Where are the skeptics on this one? And no, I don't mean this as a challenge to skeptics, I seriously want to know if there is an answer to this mystery. Other than "the doctors were lying" of course.

I posted this in another spot, but here seem's like the right place,I had one experience, I was in an accident on a remote road and lying there in real pain, and i still remember that feeling, I guess I musta blacked out, but my mind was working and instantly all pain was gone, I seemed to be travelling and a voice told me that it was,nt my time yet, and in a flash I was conscious again and hurting again! That's the short story to that, but more interesting is the fact that when I was youngish my mother asked a seer to read my lifeline and she predicted that at that age I was of that accident I would die!, then I remember seeing a strange look in her eye's, sorta glazing over and she hurried away!..True..

ok but you are alive right?

...

Has anyone seen the film Jacob's Ladder? It's about a guy who's injured in the Vietnam war, and when he returns to America he begins having lots of nightmarish experiences, he sees demons, reality becomes twisted and that goes on for a while. Then at the very end of the film you find out that he had actually died during the war, and his entire life since was actually hallucination created by his brain in those last few moments.

I don't believe in a spiritual life after death, but I think during those last moments your brain could trick you. People report it all the time, seeing a tunnel and relatives; what I want to know is if you died, how long would you perceive that moment to be? Would it be a brief glimpse and then it's over, or would it seem to go on forever?

This is very interesting, imagine science exploring a whole new realm.

I agree with the brain tricking you. There are many chemicals that control what the brain sees and there a likely ones the brain releases to protect its self when it is endangered.
Also out of body experiences have already been studied, recreated and explained http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6960612.stm

Huh?
That doesn't explain out-of-body experiences. They just recreated one with virtual reality goggles by setting up a camera and having the subjects look at themselves from a different vantage point. Hardly proof of anything but their ability to tinker with fancy equipment.

I heard those virtual reality goggles can be used to play games.

The fact that they can recreate them actually can help explain it. It gives strong evidence that it is not at all mystical and is infact a psychology defense mechanism.
If you can read the whole journal article then it would give a better insight into what it says.

I did read the whole article. It even states:

Their work suggests a disconnection between the brain circuits that process visual and touch sensory information may thus be responsible for some OBEs.

It says some OBE's, not all, not even most. So saying they have already explained where OBE's come from is an exaggeration.
Not to mention Susan Blackmore headed this "experiment, which should tell anyone who knows anything about NDE's that the results will always lean in her favor. She has a tendancy to come to the conclusion that supports her own agenda, rather than the truth.
I mean, look at the study: these people are shown virtual representations of themselves with their eyes. How does that explain a person who is brain dead with an NDE seeing themself? Or how a person who has been blind since birth can see during an OBE? This study is just rubbish, and a way for Blackmore to sell her theory, which means selling more books and obtaining more funding for her drug habits.

If you brain dead how could you have a NDE or tell anyone about it?
Btw you sound very bitter. I also meant did you read the journal article, not the media article.

Did you read the first article presented , it stated the patient was brain dead during her op as they had to work on her brain so they had to have her dead for over 45 minutes . scinetifically she was dead .no machines in the room logged any activity. so clinically she was DEAD i believe this is what fylga is referring to when she says brain dead .

however it has also been brought to my attention that there was an article that stated she was awake during some periods of the operation which means she could have had the experiences then and assumed she had them whilst clinically dead . however i have not found the actual article yet but im still looking and reserving judgement for now .

bessings SS79 x x x

Some faction of endocrinology maintains that electrical activity precedes the molecular (chemical) activity within the brain. That being the case, there is quite the possibility that in fact the mind is not dependent on the brain, but quite the opposite.

Many "ancient" philosophies have had quite unique occurrences, very likely numbering in the millions, that cannot be explained if one assumes that the brain is the causal aspect of mind. If such occurrences are true (and since they are quite numerous), then it can logically be stated that the mind somehow manufactures the body, or at least has ultimate control thereof. The medical profession has, over the years, consistently implied that placebos work in many cases, when the object believes they will work. This indicates that the mind is the operative, and the pill is meaningless, since the bodily reaction is intimately tied to the belief (mind).

If one attempts to follow some of these old doctrines (or methodology) and is consistent with OBEs, does it not follow that something extraordinary is occurring? If the mind can heal the body, if the mind can leave the body (however it does so), then the entire health industry is basically incorrect, is it not? It would be more to the point to heal the mind than heal the body, wouldn't it? It would also put the lie to any idea that death is the end, period, wouldn't it? Would it also not point out that most organized religion is simply in it for the power and bucks?

Yeah, I know, I'm a horrible person to state such things. But I'm pretty much convinced that it is the case.

Amen. Well said 'Rabid'.

In regards to Jacobs Ladder (great movie BTW), the alternate lives Jacob Singer was experiencing on his death bed may also have had to do with 'flashes' from the experimental drug BZ which was the basis of the drama. Drugs containing a similar molecular structure were thought to have had a clairvoyent effect with some poeple in addition to producing intense, prolonged OBEs.

Another interesting bit:
I read somewhere that at the moment of our death, we lose a specific amount of weight -several grams as I recall. Well, allegedly, nearly the exact amount of weight is lost when we astral travel or have an OBE...? I don't mean to jump or redirect this thread but, if anyone else has heard this, PM me.