I was watching the History Channel and they had a story on Atlantis. They gave two very good points, of two different locations. One, the Minoan civilization on Crete could have been Atlantis. Another is an island near greek that had a city that was litteraly built on a volcanao. It exploded, and.... bye bye city. They had good points... can't remember most now, but they did fit Platos description pretty well.

I don't know much about Atlantis, or really remember much of the show... sorry if I can't dazzle you with facts. I was just wondering if anyone else saw this? It was quite interesting.

That island was Thera, Erowin. It was an important part of the larger Minoan civilization, and the volcano that erupted there spelled the end of the Minoans within several generations. Scholars still debate when the volcano blew, but the growing consensus is around 1630 BCE, around 1,200 years before Plato was born.

I'm sorry I missed that special on the History Channel. Of all the theories proposed about Atlantis, from the ridiculous to the plausible, the one about which you wrote seems the most reliable to me.

'Atlantis' is just a name to describe a possible pre-history, pre-flood? civilization......

A location worth considering, in my opinion, is Egypt itself....and the surrounding Sahara
desert.

What if, after all the speculation about underwater sites....'Atlanitis' was actually under our
noses....or at least under the sand....and the pyramids/sphinx area is part of it?

It seems to be accepted that the pyramid area wasn't always like it is today....that once upon
a time it was 'green'. So if this area was subjected to massive flooding thousands of years ago,
that turned the green into a sea of sand....when the water receded...what was once there.... was/is
hidden under the sand.

The pyramids etc COULD be the tip of the iceberg.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.....

the pyramids at Giza are built on bedrock thats millions of years old

Why can't it be the british isles?

Britain would have been a lot bigger at the end of the last iceage and would have been seen to be a mini continenent

why can't it be anywhere, its only limited by the imagination, much like Platos was when he wrote it

Britain was also connected to the Europe - it wasn't an island. By the time it became an island it wasn't much bigger than it is today.

Anyway, 11,000 years ago we'd only just arrived here ..... why would we want to declare war on Egypt and Athens? We're not Golgafrinchams you known

Let's call a spade a spade, bee.
"Atlantis" is the name of a fictional city in some of Plato's dialogues.
If you insist in positing an unknown (advanced) civilization, why not call it that so you don't get carried away?
I always thought "Mu" was appropriately silly sounding, but as I don't want to suggest that there was even one missing continent, throwing around the title of another is worse.



Well... it's not as if the Pyramids and their associated culture popped up mysteriously over night. Believe it or not, there was an Egyptian culture before them, for centuries -- and that early Egyptian and proto-Egyptian culture /is/ really there, underneath the sands. As I usually say, why posit something fictional when there's something actually real and potentially just as interesting as fantasy?



Well, it certainly is true Egypt was once green, and there were Neolithic settlements throughout the area -- in Upper Egypt, Sudan, and Chad.



They certainly are, and there are entire fields of archeology and Egyptology dedicated to studying the matter.

--Jaylemurph

would probably be a good point to mention that as Atlantis is actually greek for "belonging to Atlas" it didn't exist as a word before the greek language was being used. So Claiming that a land existed 9000 years before the language the name appears in exists is doomed to failure. It would be like claiming that a lost world called "Lower Devonshire" existed in England and sunk beneath the waves 9000 years before anyone spoke english

Forget Devonshire. How about the sunken county of Cornwall?

In days to come, men shall seek for the lost city of St. Ives!

In the early days of the 21st Century, the faer-folk came out of the fogous to return their kingdom to the sea bed. In a day and a night of rain and thunder, the county sank beneath the waves, leaving only a few floating pasties and leaving tales of cream teas...

In the wind off the new coast line of east Devonshire, you might hear the mermaids sing sad tales of kits, cats, sacks and wives...

--Jaylemurph

There's the lost realm of Evesham ..... sunk beneath the floods in one day and night in July 2007 .......

Actually, regarding the name Atlantis, even Plato says that the names he used were 'modern' Greek versions/translations/equivalents of whatever names the inhabitants used (in whatever language they spoke) ..... The one name we can be 100% sure the 'lost island/city/civilisation' was not called is Atlantis

ok so Lemuria which was named after the English spelling of Lemur is out as well then
along with Mu which was named after Lemuria

whats that leave with lost sunken cities ?

new orleans ?

No-one can prove that it was or wasn't fictional. This is the only logical statement to be made
about it....everything else is mere opinion.




We can talk about 'centuries'.....perhaps we should be thinking along the lines of millennia.




But we don't know WHAT is under the sand...because it's...er.....under the sand.




The pyramids etc ARE very interesting....not so long ago...the sphinx was just a head sticking out of the sand...
Who's to say what else might be under there....preserved by the sand.

Place names change....one only has to look at an old atlas to see that.

I still say....that the wider area around the Egyptian pyramids....is a POSSIBLE contender for the place that we now
refer to as 'Atlantis'. The area was flooded. The waters receded. What isn't NOW above the sand level...may one day
be revealed. There may be something, there may be nothing.... we just don't know.

some of us don't

Well, as the only "proof" for Atlantis is from Plato's Fiction, then I think it is a good bet that it actually IS fiction

The show did have good points. Plato could have been writting about the Minoan civilization. They were very advanced (not like super impossibly advanced.. just more so than greece) And his description did fit well with the ruins. It had been destroyed (by an earthquake) and had shining glittery stone (like in the description)

The stone was from a nearby quarry and was some sort of quartz or something. It's not so impossible that Plato heard about the Minoans ( long destroyed by the time he was living). I mean it's not like saying Aliens sunk an amazing super advanced continent.

Just some thoughts. Oh, and the show was Lost Worlds: Atlantis on History channel. I'll see if Historychannel.com has the show description or something...

he wasn't writing about Minoa

Minoa didn't sink it got blown to pieces

Ah, true. Perhaps there is some greek city under the sea... or Plato was writing another story.. Apparently he heard the tale from an Egyptian preist. Who knows

You bring up points worth considering, bee.



The Giza Plateau has most definitely undergone severe climatological changes over time and was once more like a lush savannah. The thing is, the paleoecology of this area (together with most of the rest of North Africa and the Sahara) is firmly understood. This region of Africa began to experience hyperdesertification around 8,000 to 10,000 years ago, and by about 3,300 BCE the Neolithic subpluvial period (a period of increased moisture) was gone. It was a natural, climatological shift that transformed savannah into desert. Climates all over the world change naturally over time; in fact, Egyptologists with whom I've spoken at the Oriental Institute in Chicago have explained that Egypt today seems to be noticeably more humid than it was even 25 or 30 years ago.

An important thing to consider is that the archaeological record reveals a very set progression of the cultures of the peoples who inhabited the entire Nile Valley from deep into prehistory. In Giza itself there is clear evidence of prehistoric burials leading into the Early Dynastic period and then to the Old Kingdom, when the pyramids were erected there. In many archaeological digs on the Plateau excavators have had to dig down literally to the bedrock to get the fullest sense of the development of any particular site, and their studies show the predynastic progression through the stages of the climatological changes of the Plateau.

In all the centuries of digging, what the excavations have never shown is any shred of evidence whatsoever of a culture predating the Egyptians, or any sense that the Egyptians could've erected monuments like the Great Pyramid or Sphinx prior to Dynasty 4 (2597-2471 BCE). Had such a thing existed, excavations would have found some evidence of it by now.

Thankyou for the hint of a positive response.....




But where did all the sand come from? Surely a basic change of climate,( without flooding)

couldn't result in 3.5 million square miles of sand?

soil is comprised mainly of sand, silt, clay and broken down vegetable matter

if you dry out soil (or the sun does) the silt and clay and decomposed vegetable matters blows away as dust leaving sand

did you think the sand was flown in by Atlantean airship to hide all the electrically lit temples and space ships ?

The atlanteans had airships?

according to Blavatsky and Cayce yes

I presumed we weren't talking reality round here when Bee asked how climate change can create sand out of soil

I rate blavatsky. Very good on the spiritual writings. Got isis unveiled but i don't remember anything about atlantis in there.

she bought it up in Isis unvelied



http://www.crystalinks.com/blatvatskyatlantis.html

omg I just linked to crystalinks, somebody shoot me now please

Bang.lol. still don't remember her saying anything about atlantis. i'll take your word for it.

what edition are you using. iirc the version published by the theosophical society eager to cash in on her recent death (1891) was heavily edited to get all the crankier bits out of it. It hit the shelves in 1892 which is right at about the same time that Edgar Cayce began his 15 year tenure as a bookseller. he later claimed not to have ever read any books at all and of course as his ravings were all along similar lines as Blavatskys you'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt because Blavatsky claimed exactly the same thing. "Books didn't tell me spirits did"

The whole of Egypt is underlain mostly by limestone sediment, and sandstone sediment (with outcrops of igneous rocks as well)Erosion of the sand / limestone would produce the sand that is now apparent. These sediments, were originally deposited underwater. The erosion from wave action, and river action, followed by atmospheric action as the sea receded, would have been sufficient for this to occur. There are no known clay deposits in Egypt (as far as I am aware). The vast majority of sand samples from the Sahara are composed of quartz (Silica) from the limestone.

Here's a thought though, bad farming practises can dramatically aid desertification, so if Egypt truly was verdant at some time then this, coupled with changing climate may have accelerated the process. IMO

OK...thanks for that. I've been doing a bit of an internet search to learn more about the Sahara..

This site said this....

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse
Using a new computer simulation of the Earth's climate, German scientists say that the Sahara underwent a brutal climate change about 4,000 years ago.

Over a very short time scale - possibly as short as 300 years - it went from grasslands with low shrubs to the desert we are familiar with today. Summer temperatures increased rapidly and rainfall almost ceased. The change devastated many ancient cultures and caused those that did survive to migrate elsewhere.

Scientists at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Research say that the desertification of the Sahara was one of the most dramatic changes in climate over the past 11,000 years.

The loss of agricultural land to the desert may have been one of the reasons why early civilisations developed along the valleys of the Nile, the Tigris and the Euphrates.

Feedback mechanism

Slight climate alterations caused by subtle changes in the Earth's orbit around the Sun were amplified by a climatic feedback mechanism.

Some 9,000 years ago the tilt of the Earth's axis was 24.14 degrees; today it is 23.45 degrees. Today, the Earth is closest to the Sun in January. Nine thousand years ago, our planet was closest to the Sun at the end of July.

The changes in the tilt of the Earth occur gradually. However, the interplay of atmosphere, ocean and landmass can react to these changes in abrupt and severe ways.

The climate model suggests that land use by man was not an important factor in the creation of the Sahara.

.....................................................

I'm willing to concede that the creation of the Sahara Desert was not as simple as I first thought.....(ie just a flood)..

An interesting article, bee. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I just want to add that while, in fact, the Minoans ceased to exist as culture giving nation, they still had people continuing their traditions until way after Thira (Thera or Santorini in foreign languages) blew its top. Karpathos and Kassos had a large population of survivors. It is hardly conceivable that, looking at any of those islands, that the inhabitants were endowed with "superhuman" knowledge.

P.S. Hi kmt_sesh, long time no see....

Have a lokk here : http://www.crystalinks.com/blatvatskyatlantis.html

Good point, questionmark. It's also more than possible that many Minoan refuges made their way to the Greek mainland and comingled with the Mycenaeans, who led up to the Greek civilization. For that matter many Minoans were probably welcomed in Egypt and resettled there. The Minoans were one of the few foreign civilizations the Egyptians respected, and we know there was some cross-cultural development in the artwork.



Hi back at you. I know, I kind of come and go.

I've been looking up the 'original' writings about 'Atlantis' here

Timaeus and Critias

And if we take this as a true albeit a very, very old story......I know, I know...it did go through
a few people.....

Egyptian priests...>
Solon...>
Dropides...(great-grandfather of Critias)...>
Critias..(grand-father of Critias...who related tale to Critias (junior)....>
Critias....>
Plato.

But if we do take it as containing ancient truth then 'Atlantis' was more than just an island.....

Quote from Critias
I have before remarked in speaking of the allotments of the gods, that they distributed the whole earth into portions differing in extent, and made for themselves temples and instituted sacrifices. And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.

Looking towards the sea, but in the centre of the whole island, there was a plain which is said to have been the fairest of all plains and very fertile. Near the plain again, and also in the centre of the island at a distance of about fifty stadia, there was a mountain not very high on any side. In this mountain there dwelt one of the earth born primeval men of that country, whose name was Evenor, and he had a wife named Leucippe, and they had an only daughter who was called Cleito.

The maiden had already reached womanhood, when her father and mother died; Poseidon fell in love with her and had intercourse with her, and breaking the ground, inclosed the hill in which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet.

He himself, being a god, found no difficulty in making special arrangements for the centre island, bringing up two springs of water from beneath the earth, one of warm water and the other of cold, and making every variety of food to spring up abundantly from the soil. He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory.

And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus. Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon. To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and Autochthon to the one who followed him. Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor. And of the fifth pair he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of Diaprepes.

All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia.

END of QUOTE...

So the central island....was just....the centre. But 'Atlantis' went as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia (where-ever that is )

A large landmass, formed of crystalline rocks and known as Tyrrhenia, occupied what is today the western Mediterranean basin, whereas much of the rest of Europe was inundated by a vast sea. During the Mesozoic (245 to 66.4 million years ago)

but he probably didn't mean that one




probably just meant italy

double post sorry

Yes that looks interesting.... good find Kerkinana !!!





Map of the modern geography of the area where the Empire of Atlantis existed.


Map showing the war zone and geography of this area in 9,600 BC.

there is good reason today that Cape Breton Island is located in the heart of the atlantic provenses which in turn are in the heart of the atlantic ocean.

the secretes of atlantis are in the shadows of the Cape Breton highlands were not only unique in its geoligy but the way it was created .

before there was an atlantic ocean ,the north american,south american euroasia and african tectonic plates come together .

And the center of what was in the end of this comming together is the island of Cape Breton but back then she was at a hight of atleast 35 km and a vast mt range stretching from today's california to china.

but with every thing that goes up well it must come down and although she has an elevation of 1700 ft give or take today what lies below sea level is still that vast mt ,that would have filled alot of the gulf of st larwents .

a good way to look at this is cape breton island (the top of the mt) is like a bobber in a sea of tectionic plates.

when these plates come together the island is way up and when there's just one like now with the north american plate
and of course what ever pushes from the mid-atlantic ridge .

anyway the island has hit bottom lets say and now this time she is on the rise i don't just speak of the rock but with the people that live here as well.

the best way for your selves to see what i say is to come and learn first hand.

me personaly i am creating hopfuly a beatiful garden were one can come and enjoy what one sees .

my dreams is to have one in the east in sydney and one in the west in grand etang were night or day the gates would be open for those who would like to walk this path that is I AM.