i dont mean to bash anyone's religion or anything, but my roommate is a hardcore christian, so he gets me thinking about christianity a lot. here's one thing that really bugs me about it. it's just something i think, so please dont take offense.

God created all things, right? including humans? so, god created us. that means he created our bodies. our bodies tell us to do things that would be considered "sinful" like having sex or getting revenge.

That means god also created our brains, which tell us that these things are perfectly normal. God hard-wired us to do all these bad things. So how can he punish us for doing something he designed us to do? shouldnt it all be his fault?

that would be like a person building a car, and then getting mad and destroying the car because it ran well.

If god really wanted us to not have sex or whatever, then he shouldnt have made us that way.



you might say, "well, he made us that way so we would be tempted and we would resist the temptation, thus bringing us closer to god. it's all about our freedom of choice". well, who is the one that put temptation into our hearts? satan. who created satan? god. god created satan to be the way he is, so god is responsible for all the evil in the world.

I'm sorry, but god just does not seem like someone who deserves my praise.

i see the last sentance you say god just does not seem like someone who deserves your praise. i hear alot of people say that. my response is you are mad at god for stuff other people tell you about him? peoples beliefs about him? other peoples interpretations of what god might be like? i'm religious but i don't go along with any certain religion that tells me how to view god. if you are looking to find out about god, look for yourself......that whole rant above is in the right step.....after all he made us that way.

It seems complicated, doesn't it? Formerly I though exactly like you're thinking now. But, fortunately I've got the answer. I am a theist, and I don't want to create God in my mind. Based on what you've described above, your opinion is right, because we make the God's personality as a human-being who can love, hate, create, destroy, etc.

Additionally, I think what you've expressed or concluded here only come from what you read and hear, but not from your inner-heart.

You are not alone my friend, religious people would say that the way your thinking is because God gave us all free will, i think, if there is a God or in my opinion a higher power, i think a little out of the box, what if (God) (he/she) only intended to create a few people to see, say, what would happen, just to do it, like some of us do when we play video games, we turn them on, play for a while and if things don't go right or we lose, we start the game over again, choose new character's/teams and play again. Maybe we are in computer mode while he/she is going to the bathroom or making a sandwich and we are just playing the game of Life?

No one knows exactly what The Meaning Of Life Is, you can ask a Priest or Rabbi or whom ever you want but the out come will be the same.....no one knows, so we keep waking up every morning to go to school or go to work to better our selfs, feed our children, pay our bills live our lives until we die.

But what we do between that time is what my answer is for the meaning of life, no one can tell you because you make your on meaning, Rather it be good or bad its all up to you, there is allot of people who stay on the straight line, obey all the rules.....me, I have a wife , three children and I'm as happy as can be, there is no straight line for me, I Zig and Zag as often as possible, break some rules on the way, but at the end.......I know at my funeral, when all my Family and friends are watching my casket get lowered into the ground, they will say that he lived a damn good life, and if there is a Light and a gate at the end of the tunnel i hope my meaning stood out just a little bit more then the person next to me so i can get a chance to meet the power that created me to say thank you for the time i had...

God asks Eve the question 'What have you done?' He said to Adam, 'Because you LISTENED to the voice of your wife, you will now be an animal.'

Not bucking any belief of the creation of the animal body by God or the writings of ancient scripture, but what do you think when the bible says 'Flesh is enmity against God?'

Let's talk about free will. You do not have free will to do anything. Your ears have the freedom to LISTEN to anything that makes a sound, but what you DO with it is restricted. You cannot kill the maker of the sound, you cannot steal from the maker of the sound, you cannot commit adultery with the sound maker. But you have the freedom to hear the sound.

God did not give us free will to do what He did not want us to do!

Ok, first off, there's nothing wrong with sex, nothing at all. I don't think God has a problem with sex. I think that our society's need to remain stabilized and to use the family unit as that stabilizing factor has caused us to feel that God has a problem with sex.

I's all about survival. The way I see it, God created a world where it WAS survival of the fittest. For our species, that meant often that the best liars, the most violent, and the most savage killers were the survivors. And also the ones who ate and F'ed the most.

but now we've reached a point where we have civilization. Now, we don't need to murder in order to survive, we don't need to have as many childern as we possibly can just so that our species survives, we don't need to steal food from other tribes to survive, we don't need to kill the weak members of our group so that the strong can have enough food.

We have developed "civilized society" and the things that kept us alive thousands of years ago are no longer necessary. Instead, they can be replaced by other things that are now of benefit to our society: compassion, generosity, altruism.

In a nutshell, God gave us the desires we have in order to survive a period where we needed to be savage. Now that we don't need those desires just to survive, God wants us to controll them, or our civilization will crumble and we'll be back to acting like savages.

Except for sex. I believe that now that we have learned to controll our own reproduction and we get married in our late adulthoods, I think God would ease up on the sexual laws a bit.

Somebody said, 'Out of these stones, God can create children to Abraham.' Can you picture God having sex with a stone? How about two stones having sex?

the bible is somethings hard to translate but it means

"children were brought out of thy stone" (shaped cones)

these stones were moved and currently at Sanda in Österhaninge

What???

Oh, I see. Are there 7 of them?

OK, skipping over the divergence into rock-people goofiness.

But to answer Phantom's question:
Religion is a form of societal control.
Hence God says no wild monkey-sex unless you are married, because marriages produce a stable controllable society.
Take the Ten Commandments. Every single one of them, even the one about honoring the Sabbath, are a form of societal control.
That's not to say that there is no God; far from it in fact, I believe there is a higher power in the universe -- call it God for lack of a better word. Just don't go looking into some book written by man for the answers. Those are just explanations written by people trying to mold a society. Listen to what is inside you, that is more God than any ancient words.

For what it's worth, here's my answer on the sex question...

Sex was God's idea. God created it, and therefore it is reasonable to expect that it is good. But when man distorts it by ignoring God's specific standards, it becomes harmful and destructive. So the question 'why save sex for marriage' is really a question of understanding God's purpose and design for sex. We all can choose to do things God's way, and experience the beauty of His plan, or we can choose to do things our way, and experience harm and destruction. (Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death)

One of the reasons God created sex is obvious -- procreation. When God told Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply", they probably thought that He wanted them to have sex. But God also wanted them to develop intimacy with one another, and He knew that sex would help them do that, in a way that nothing else could.

God also knew that because sex is so powerful in creating intimacy that there must be some constraints on how it was to be used, so He specifically relegated sex to the area of marriage. The kind of intimacy that God desires between a married couple cannot occur between one person and several others; it can only be experienced between one man and one woman. Hence God has specifically said, "Do not commit adultery" and "Flee sexual immorality". That is, do not have sex with someone who is not your spouse. Obedience requires that sex be reserved for your spouse.

Many, though, have argued that non-marriage sex is not all that harmful. But there are potential consequences for this particular area of disobedience. The physical consequences are becoming increasingly obvious and increasingly dangerous in today's society. AIDS and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases are frightening realities. "Safe sex" would be more accurately described as "reduced risk sex". The only truly safe sex is abstinence. There is also a very real risk that children could be born -- and possibly grow up without two parents. Your actions affect your life, your partner's life, and the lives of your family.

Sex outside of marriage damages the relationship between the persons involved. Trust is the main issue. If two people do not cherish sex enough to wait for a marriage commitment, how can they trust one another for fidelity? Conversely, a man and woman build trust and respect for one another when they both survive the struggles of self-control -- each will have the confidence that the other respects them, and cherishes their intimacy.

Also, if a person has not carried sexual purity into marriage, his or her marriage relationship is affected by the past. If a man or woman has previously had sex with someone else, their marital intimacy has already been affected. One or both spouses will have to deal with real or perceived comparisons with "former lovers" and feeling that intimacy was not important enough for the other person to wait for it. But if both have waited for their wedding night, the intimacy has already begun with a solid foundation.

So why save sex for marriage?

(1) God commands us to.

(2) God's purpose and design for sex can only be achieved within marriage.

(3) The physical and relational consequences of sex outside of marriage are painfully real.

Excerpts taken from http://www.studiooneproductions.co.uk/why_...ex_for_marr.htm

Without all he has given you,wich you have pointed out,you would not learn life lessons.The one's that can only be taught by having temptation and the choice to ignore your sinfull ways and to be closer to god.And to one another.Otherwise,if all was of light and no dark,all good no evil,how would god know what was truly in your heart?Leaving the door open for temptation is a choice you have to make...wich is stronger,your'e desire for one's own selfish pleasures,or to know true happiness by following the right path?...It's all choice....Remember:If you turn your back on God he can chose to do the same.It's all about choice.

[quote name='soldierspy' date='Nov 6 2007, 08:08 PM' post='1970950']
...wich is stronger,your'e desire for one's own selfish pleasures,or to know true happiness by following the right path?...






Well in my case it's the former



fullywired

Amen. Those are words to found a religion on.

I do not practice ANY specific religion. I believe much of what religions say is "good" or "BAD" is man-made and NOT "orders" from God.

I do believe in God. I also believe it is important for one to live a moral and ethical life based on honesty and without hurtful intentions towards anyone else.

That's all. Just my opinion.

Its all about free-will man. God didnt make us zombies to blindly follow his orders and commands. We are free to chose good from evil, and we are even free to chose to believe in him or not. But we will be held responsible for our actions that is a fact.

Bingo!

Christianity, first of all, is not just one sect. Second, sexual intercourse is not sinful, only hypocrites would perpetuate this archaic, tired notion. Third, not all Christians follow the Bible, word for word. Fourth, "this" Christian doesn't believe in an evil "Satan." And yes, God created Satan..., and I'm sure, draconic chronicler would gladly tell you more about this, no doubt, if he or she is still around. Etceteras.

Whether or not you give praise to God is of not consequence to HIM, I think..., but I could never be sure since I actually have never met God, at least I don't think so, to know anything concrete about HIM, to even outguess HIM.

Frankly, you need to do more thinking and praying when it comes to figuring out Christendom.

Just a thought.

But, couldn't an STD or AIDS show up after two people are married? Seriously, the only person that truly knows exactley who they've been with is that person themselves. Marriage doesn't automatically give you a shield against a disease. Also....What if children are born outside of wedlock? Better yet, is being married the only way that you can show "true" love towards your partner? There are countless couples out there that have never married but have been together for the majority of their lives.



Again, marriage doesn't necessarily mean "love and trust". If that was the case, then there wouldn't be divorces.



I don't agree. I've been married for almost 10 years and I've NEVER questioned my wife's past or felt insecure about it. The past is the past, not something that's lived over and over again. I look at it this way, she wears my ring on her finger and if you have trust, that's all that matters. If you walk into a marriage questioning your spouse's past, you shouldn't have taken that step in the first place.

I just read through everything you wrote. I don't disagree with any of the observations (though i might argue the point on Satan putting temptation in our hearts - this is only partly true, I think). It's only the conclusions I disagree with. I guess that comes down to where our opinions lie!

On one side of the proverbial coin, it is you stating this. To you, it makes perfect sense. You have reviewed the evidence, and came to the logical conclusion you arrived at.

But on the other side, here's another interpretation - God made us the way we are, including our sin, for one purpose. That purpose was to ensure that mankind on their own could not lean on their own righteousness to reach Salvation. The laws that God put down, God knew there was no way we could uphold the law (indeed, he created us so that we would not). But that doesn't then logically follow that we should just do it and blame God for it. For example, just because I feel like having sex with someone does not logically follow that I have to go and have sex with that person.

What all of it means to me is that I will not be able to live up to the standards God has set - that's all. It's not a matter of blaming God. BUT, God knows this also and so God reached down to lift us up, to save us from what we could not save ourselves from. And so, when I stand before God, it won't be full of selfish pride, boasting in my own righteousness and rightness of action - instead, I am humble before the creator, the Lord of everything, knowing that the only reason I am there is because God was great enough to take those wrongs of mine on his own shoulders, to bring me to him out of his actions alone. It was nothing I did to "deserve" salvation, but everything God did to bring it to one who did not deserve. And for that I am most thankful.

So back to the beginning - you reviewed the facts and came to your conclusion. I have reviewed those same facts and based on those same facts, came to a completely contradictory conclusion.

Interesting, eh

~ Paranoid Android

very interesting post, android. i see your conclusion and i respect it. however, it did raise another question in my mind. you say that god is so great in that he takes the burden of the bad things we have done and we dont deserve his grace, etc.. but think about it like this: people are 'humbled' and 'shamed' because they dont deserve god's grace, but god made us all that way knowing what decisions we would make. he deliberately made us weak and subject to temptation, knowing full well that we would not be able to resist. so he purposely made us as beings that need him. it all sounds like an ego trip, doesnt it?

Trust me, I can really understand your feelings on this.

Also having read through all the replies here, I commend some of the thoughtful inteligent theological answers. I agree, if I believed this way, that we were given 'stuff' to survive on, and then given the will and the power to temper it, as we civilized. I say kudos on that one.

In a nutshell on the sex thing, and from my belief, I think it's a foregone conclusion, from my standpoint, that sex is to perpuate the species. Yes, it's a strong drive, so my quess if it wasn't there, we would probably need a beer or two, or a scotch on the rocks to actually get through some 'obligations' to keep us going. I think your questions would also fall under the 'what about the rest of the animal kingdom?' question. They have the strong sex drive to keep their species going, and then some. You know, with the male trying to 'knock boots' with any female he conquers. So, do they have the same rules, or how are we different, and why are we given these rules? Maybe it's because that we were also given that free will as a gift, and that the gift of sex and the gift of free will kind of not mix with each other, and thus given those rules.

THough, to agree with everyone, sex is not dirty. Though, I do not understand how it could be outside marriage, when every marriage is different, every wedding ceremony is different, and many different types of religious and non-religious marriages. I had a hard time, on a completely different different forum, getting a very religious person to admit my secular marriage was not valid in his eyes. I married all right, but not in a church, but in my inlaws home, to a justice of the peace. It was a wedding ceremony, and we were declared married, and still are, but to some we are not. So, am I not having the innocent sex that those who married in a church have? I had sex outside of married, and with someone before my husband. He also had previous partners too. That doesn't mean anything. I think it doesn't mean anything, if you are responsible with it. Marriage doesn't ensure responsibility, or there wouldn't be any divorces, or dysfunctional families for that matter.

I think we were organic flukes of nature, that needed sex to perpuate, and thus got the brain to help us be responsible with it. We formed what we needed, as needed through out the years.

I know, that the free will subject is always brought up, but if we're given free will to deal with what was given us, thoughout our lifetime, why, when we are not sure what happens after death. I really do not think anyone has a real definate proof of what that is, so it's kind of, sorry to say this, a waste of time to learn something for something we are not sure of.

So, in a sense, I'm with you on that thought.

God gave us many things and with them all He gave us instructions on when or how to use them...He also gave us the ability the think and reason...it is left up to us how we use what He gave us...knowing that we would not always do the "right" thing He also gave us a way to be forgiven our shortcomings.

randomhit10

It's funny. I never had those instructions read to me. I think it's because I grew up secular in a secular society that allows everyone to be free in what they believe. My family never went to church and we never read the bible. If God made me, how did he not provide the instructions in our home?

i know what you are saying...my family was like your also...i decided to take the first step on my own later in my life after some things that had happened to me...i discovered that this was the way i had to do it...having the instructions read to me would have not had the same meaning and i would have probably missed the meaning had i not made the effort to learn for myself...the secular society wants you to believe that you have right to choose, as the faith also wants you to believe but not for the same reasons...God's Word states that all of us are responsible for our own salvation...it is because of what i have discovered by my searching i am a firm believer in God and Jesus, Who is our savior.

randomhit10

I think you misunderstood me. What I was pointing out in my history and question, is that I have a hard time believing that God made us and provided all of us with instructions, when not all of us got those instructions. I think it would be wrong to assume everyone grew up with a bible in their house. You see, I still haven't read it, and I do not think I ever will have all of it read. I have lived my life, up til now, without instructions from 'who ever supposedly made me'. I am not going to take that first step into the direction you did, and I am confident I do not need or want to. I am not searching for that, and have a hard time believing you about talk of who is our savior.

Having sex isn't sinful, neither is getting revenge. Howeve, there are certain ways to do both.


It's not that he doesn't want us to entertain these natural urges, it's that he wants us to excercize control when doing so.

like you, i did not grow up with a Bible in my hand either...as far as not all of us having the instructions, i started from where you say you are now...i did not have a book of instructions fall in my lap either...but inside i knew there had to be something better, something more than what i was living then...i have not always been a believer but once i was sure that my old life just could not be all there was, i began my search...i looked in a lot of places until i found the instruction book...as i searched the questions i had started to get answers...i had some really tough things happen in my life that helped fuel my search...God and Jesus is not easy to grasp...intangables are very difficult...but sometimes life will take a turn that is beyond your ability to handle and all you have left is your faith...you pray and you see immediate action totally, totally different from what the circumstances you are in dictate, then you realize Who has the power...just keep an open mind...

randomhit10

Well, I have always kept an open mind, and I am not a true Atheist, as I have said in other threads. But, let's assume that not everyone questions something, when they do not have the instructions. I didn't, because I felt we had to handle it ourselves. My reply was about how you said that God gave us instructions, and I'm wondering if that meant the bible which not everyone has or wants and will read, or that you meant another way of getting instructions, which I am wondering if that is what you meant.

Hey, if you are not religious, don't sweat it.

However to those who know god, there is a clear logical answer to your main concern. God created us in his own image. That is, with free will and the power to choose. The same with the angels. To have done otherwise would have been wrong, because we would be robots, with no free choice and no potential to choose either right or wrong. We would just do as we were programmed to do . We would never be able to learn, grow and develop, and never have the potential to fulfil our full destiny.

God knew we might sin ( choose to disobey his instuctions for an everlasting life, free of sin) but there was also a chance we would not. Of all the peoples in heaven, we were the only ones(along with a third of the angels) to succumb to lucifer's deception that we could have the knowledge of good and evil, ie choose to do "evil", and not lose our immortality, or our close relationship with god. Once we hcose our own way over god's, the consequence of that is all we now call sin. From decay and senility, to physical desires of greed and envy. The sin had nothing to do with sex and god designed us to procreate.
Yes god's laws are just as much about creating a safe orderly and well governed civil society, as they are about how to be better people, following more in the image god planned for us. We are able still to achieve this because god created us with the ability to make this choice, just as we can choose; disobedience,"sin" and death.

You do not have to give in to; lust, greed, envy etc, even if you can not help experiencing the feelings as part of your human nature.

All this is meaningless to one who does not; know, accept, or at least believe in, God, but means everything to one who does.

Which is the reason why you shouldn't believe in God that way.

That book has been written akin to a fairytale with a moral to the story that would suit a person living in the stone age.
Kinda like going through school reading "Dick and Jane" every year for 12 years of your education.

So, If you want to read Tolstoy, you gotta get out and start finding his books. (and no I dont mean Tolstoy, I mean reading something more complex than a grade 1 reader book, if you catch my drift)
Of course people will argue and moan and groan that you will get way over your head, and that you shouldn't read this or that because "they" are only out to deceive you...

Get out, Explore, and learn some interesting stuff... If you are interested in becoming more spiritually developed for the things to come, you'll find the truth out there, the adventure itself is part of the process.
The Belief in the Creator, is a personal covenant between you (physical) and your spiritual self (non-physical, but present none the less) and don't let anyone take control of that.

You know it's interesting that countries who have a mostly atheist/agnostic population have alot less STD's, lower divorce rates, much lower teen pregnancies, less promiscuity
They hold sex on a high pedestal as long as there is mutual consent and respect for the sexual partner. If love is involved all the better.
Many people "live in so-called sin" before comitting to marriage and many do not marry unless they decide to have children. This way they find out if they are truly compatible emotionally,socially,physically and mentally. This may explain the lower divorce rates ?
I understand how important these laws were in the past but not so much any more. Women are for the most part not dependent on men anymore.
But I really do feel children should be raised in a stable binding relationship with a loving mother and father who are committed to each other.

Aids is caused by carelessness in the medical field (tainted blood), ignorance, rape,lack of protection, unsterilised needles etc. Not from lack of belief.
So abstinence is not a 100% guarantee although it helps.

Although sex is not the most important issue in a marriage I would want to know if I am sexually compatible with a partner before I commit.

I know of many men that do not want an unexperienced woman either ,but no ,they don't want a woman that has been with every Tom,Dick and Joe either. I can understand that. I find promiscuous men also unappealing .
Promiscuity is defined differently by different people

I feel people have NO BUSINESS dictating someones sexual behavior unless it is harmful.

We eat to survive and we eat for pleasure & sharing food binds us. The same can be said for sex.

you posted something that has been bothering me...that some people think you are not married because you did not marry in a church or with some religious clergy...legally married is married period....in the sight of God and by the laws of man...i have not found anything in my Christian studies that you are not considered married if you are married by a justice of the peace in someone's home...so whoever is telling you that please tell them how to find me on this forum...i would be very interested to know where their belief comes from...anyway, i'm sorry that people have to give you crap about this...
so go ahead and have all the innocent sex you and your HUSBAND want to have, who you LEGALLY MARRIED.

randomhit10

i can understand what RAGUS is saying because it is true...premartial sex puts a relationship in a whole new level that many people find they are not willing or ready to deal with, not to mention all the physical stuff that can happen...God works through His system of rules, or laws, or whatever you want to call them...they are set up to protect us from many things that we do not understand until we cross over the boundaries an ddiscover them for ourselves...it is like telling a child not to do something because ti may injure them...they don't understand...you can't make them understand...all they know is that they want to do it...does that make you wrong for wanting to keep them from hurt and/or harm?

i understand what momentarylapseofreason is saying also...no one should dictate how you live your life based on their own belief....you have your own and you are responsible for your own action unless you somehow share something with someone else...and there is no reason to become servient to someone else own wants and desires, especially if you don't share them...we are all in this together and we need to interact with each other with respect to each others wants and needs...

randomhit10

im not sure but i only see 3 in the pic

i not say that kids came from rocks

just it could be some kind of monument ,

to cones shaped objects that brought them?

Hi random,

can you explain the risky implications of pre-marital sex ?

I'm talking about pre-marital sex in a caring, safe enviroment not as in a one-night stand

And would you still respect me in the morning ?


No but seriously...?

And when I get that feeling
I want Spiritual Healing
Spiritual Healing, oh great one
Makes me feel so fine
Helps to relieve my mind
Spiritual Healing my saviour, is good for me
Spiritual Healing is something that's good for me
Whenever blue tear drops are falling
And my emotional stability is leaving me
There is something I can do
I can get on my knees and call you up Jesus, and
Lord I know you'll be there to relieve me
The love you give to me will free me
If you don't know the things you're dealing
I can tell you, darling, that it's Spiritual Healing
Get up, Get up, Get up, Get up, let's praise god tonight
Wake up, Wake up, Wake up, Wake up, 'cause you do it right
Jesus I got sick this morning
A sea was storming inside of me
God I think I'm capsizing
The waves are rising and rising
And when I get that feeling
I want Spiritual Healing
Spiritual Healing is good for me
Makes me feel so fine, it's such a rush
Helps to relieve the mind, and it's good for us


i double posted so i made a new song out of Sexual Healing...cool huh ? I hope

Hi, I'm new here and I'm French so please forgive all the mistakes that i'm going to do.

I think that your point of view is normal, logical and perfectly acceptable in our modern world. But only if sexuality is an activity of pleasure and fun. So as you said , where is the problem? You could have said: "where is the problem of playing tennis if its totaly safe and under control and if I know well my opponent and if i have protect my ankles or my knees?" And of cours we are oblige to answerd: "no problem do so, I'm glad that you are going to have fun!"

But if sex is more than tennis? Hmm
To my point of view sexuality is a way to know, discover on a very particular way your partner, your wife. I wish it could have been a way knowed only by my wife or the women who is going to se me getting older and older (if you don't want a wedding). It is true that in sexuality you share something with the other, isn't it? Somewhere if you share time with your tennis partner, what are you sharring when you have sex? Emotions, corporal sensations, corporal liquids, passions, phantasms, dreams, weekness, sweetness, wildness. In a word, it is all your intimity. They are things that you don't show, tell or share with everybody, or at least not all of them in the same time. And if you are not sharring all of those things with him/her, are you in confident with him/her? And if you are not, do you really make love?
Maybe you can, I don't. I mean i can but it is not make love to her . it is have sex fun.

In the Bible it's says that a men and his wife are ONE! It is more than links I could created in a tennis game

So to me sex is more than tennis because it's involve the two people in a deeper way than sport. (but sport is good anyway)
On top of that, sexuality is the only natural way for creating life. Strange... why this specific action, practice or activity, that involve us so strongly is the way for creating life?

In our modern world, sex and parentality are more and more split in two specific fields. One is a sequel of the other and the other is the threat of the first. Haven't you ever heard: "i could have become a father! How lucky I'm" or "You don't take your pills, wacth out, it is not safe!!"
Being pregnante it is a bad thing? Of cours not and it is a great revolution that women are able to controle that. But, that doesn't change the fact that women are the only creature one this earth able to creat a human beeing. So we should keep in mind that this control gives us responsability as much as right on the body

But most part off people ar living this control as an authorisation to have sex with anybody, and it's not important if i don't marry him/her because we aren't bound by children.

Is it normal to practice sex without thinking at the pregnancy? I mean sex is for pleasure to and all sexual relations don't have to create a baby but is it normal to have sex with someone and knowing that this person will never be the father/mother of our children?

We konw that a child have to be raised in a famillial environnment. And tha human baby is one of the most dependant babies of his parents. Why? Maybe because the parents are supposed to raise there kid together what's suppose that they live together... And maybe it's make sense with the fact that God want a husband for each women and vice versa, and this for a living time, not for a night.

So if we see in sexuality more than a simple pleasant moment.... the biblical perspective is not foolish.

But that does not mean that sex could be livng for pleasure (it's just hhave to be in a wedding context)

Well, one, this person and the forum, I do not associate anymore. I haven't been for years. So, I do not think I am going to refer him to you. Plus, I do not need you to tell him off for me. I can, I did, told him how wrong he was myself. Plus, I was trying to make a point about sex as a secular couple, and how it doesn't differ to other relationships. I do not need you to give me permission on how to have sex, I was asking a retorical question.

I also do not believe there was a God, or in sight of God, involved in my wedding and marriage. This is about being noticed how we are married to everyone, in a secular point of view despite everyone's religious affiliation.

well, actually i was defending the position...and i didn't think you would need my permission...this was more for the people who say they read and understand the Bible and other religious teachings but miss the point of it all...i frankly don't care what you do as we all stand on our own actions in the end...but i think i better understand why that person reacted the way he did to you...

randomhit10

hi there....i will give it a try...

we are beings that in our best state should join with our life long partner...this allow us to be all we can be in the safety of knowing that if we fail from time to time our partner will be there for support and the building up of our spirit...sex i a way that we convey how special someone is to us...if we are too open in our sexual behavior, we loose the specialness that this union should have and it becomes an everyday event...the things to do list would read like, sweep porch, grocery store, wash car, have sex, call mom, etc...in its best light, sex is the one way that one person can show another how much they care for another and how much more special they are than anyone else...it is the most vunerable state you can be in with another person so the confidence and trust level should be the highest with your partner...casual sex lacks a certain degree of comfort that interferes with the enjoyment of the shared act...now in a caring, safe environment, this would be a big plus but it still lacks what it could be...

i like your song...

randomhit10

It's called temptation. I'm pretty sure somewhere in the bible it says your not supposed to give into it.
Sounds like something that would be in the bible. Not sure though.

But at the time of the 10 commandments and indeed, until only the last century, people got married in their teens. Big deal, who can't stay a virgin until they are 14 or 15? Now people stay single until their 20's and late 30's even, and beyond. School, our social financial structure, etc. all discourage teen marriage.

I can't believe God intended for us to be celibate during our most verile youth.


So I think that we are already doing things "our" way, simply by allowing a social construct that puts such unrealistic and unnatural restraints on our sexuality.




I have to be honest with with you, sex isn't that way for everyone. I mean, it's great for you to feel this way, but I just want to tell you that sex is what you make it, and intimacy is also what you make it.





That's true for our present culture, but I don't think it's a universal human truth.

As much as your explanation was well written and although i disagree with the whole pre-marital sex being sinful

I believe in my heart that if you take 100 christians and you were to find out how many of them have kept themselves virgin till they got married..and not once gave into human nature known as passion....I would dare say that 99% of these people would be guilty of giving into their human nature ...but those same people would be likely to preach to others about what sin is

The only time when i believed that sex before marriage was wrong...is around the time when I thought sex was just NASTY LOL i was just a child...and i would have believed anything back then......I remember our teacher telling us we must wait till we are on our wedding night before we sleep with the hubby.....we all freaked out..and said NO WAY...we arent sleeping with no man when we are older eeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww thats nasty !! LMAO kids eh??

However I ddint sleep around much at all and I have kept to the same partner for the past 12 year and I dont think id be going anywhere fast...I dont see my life is sinful.....I would only see it as sinful IF i where christian

i think that God did intend us to stay celibate but i think He also knew the reality that man is weak and subject to temptation...especially to such a strong temptation...we do allow many things to set the boundaries in many areas of our lives, sex being one...most of the times the boundaries silde back and forth according to who is looking at the boundary.

yes, i agree...sex is what you make of it and what you want to get out of it....good or bad the way we use it determines what we get...

why do you think it is not a universal truth?

randomhit10

i am equally giulty, i am one of the 99%...that is one reason i can what i say because i have lived it...your life is what you see it being...we are all responsible for our our salvation (so to speak)...what i do has no bearing on your life and vise versa...but we can exchange ideas and what we learn from our own experiences in hope that we may help someone else who is struggling to make sense of this thing we call life...you have many good ideas to share that you have learned your way...we all do.

randomhit10

yes. i will still respect you in the morning...(if you can make good coffee that gets extra credit...) lol

randomhit10

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Because there have been, are are, cultures where a man has many wives, or a woman can have more than one husband. Or a man has ONE wife, but is allowed to have concubines for sex. The idea of one man, one woman in a sexual and intimate permanant "love" relationship for life is not a human cultural constant.

Plus, as a man, i know I am capable of having sex without intimacy, and I know it's possible to have intimacy without secual intercourse.

I think your views on sex are shaped by your culture and/or religion. There's nothing wrong with that, you have to live your life as you see fit. But I think that the idea that sex loses something if you do it with other people is true in the context of our society, but not in all societies. And even in our society, sub-cultures exist where sex is not the focal point of intimacy. So I just think that to define intimacy and "specialness" by sexual activity is not universally true.

In fact, our biology indicates that we are not a monagamous species...we are serial monagamists.