Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Finding God
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
Pages: 1, 2
freak of nature
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!
randomhit10
QUOTE (freak of nature @ Nov 12 2007, 05:51 PM) *
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!


thai is really cool...keep the faith and stay strong...prayer is an amazing tool in the life of a believer...


randomhit10
Primeval
Oh, your from Ohio? Thats a surprise!
Neognosis
QUOTE
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!


That's great for you, but I hope you don't base your faith in God on your dad's friend showing up. Because God is going to let many, many, many bad things happen to you. Sometimes it seems like if you base a faith in god on good fortune happening, when bad fortune happens, God gets blamed and goes out the window.

I mean really, there's kids dying of malaria in some swamp in Ghanna. A mother just gave birth to a child with a disease that will give him a short life full of unbearable agony. But for some reason God was looking out for YOU in your dad's broken down jeep? I mean, sure, it's possiblel, but I just don't think God works that way. I think we don't know how God works, and you should have faith even when your loved ones are dying of disease and you are laid off from your job and your child is sick.

Eh, I don't know. I believe in God, but I don't think he's in the instant prayer answering business. I think it's bigger than that. but good for you, I hope you continue to find your version of God and happiness in god.

EmpressStarXVII
Glad that you have found a divine source thumbsup.gif.
randomhit10
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 06:07 PM) *
That's great for you, but I hope you don't base your faith in God on your dad's friend showing up. Because God is going to let many, many, many bad things happen to you. Sometimes it seems like if you base a faith in god on good fortune happening, when bad fortune happens, God gets blamed and goes out the window.

I mean really, there's kids dying of malaria in some swamp in Ghanna. A mother just gave birth to a child with a disease that will give him a short life full of unbearable agony. But for some reason God was looking out for YOU in your dad's broken down jeep? I mean, sure, it's possiblel, but I just don't think God works that way. I think we don't know how God works, and you should have faith even when your loved ones are dying of disease and you are laid off from your job and your child is sick.

Eh, I don't know. I believe in God, but I don't think he's in the instant prayer answering business. I think it's bigger than that. but good for you, I hope you continue to find your version of God and happiness in god.


she is not responsible for sin that entered into the world through man, no more than you are...but we were a left here to deal with it...the same pray that helped with the jeep could save one of those kids...if it were used...if there is faith that it works...if pride is set aside...i have seen prayer do mighty things and i have seen prayer move gnats...i have been laid off....i have seen death in the face...i have seen prayer work when nothing else would, nothing else would...

randomhit10
Neognosis
QUOTE
the same pray that helped with the jeep could save one of those kids...if it were used


you believe in a God that lets little kids die of malaria, but he might save them IF someone prays hard enough? I can't get behind that.


QUOTE
i have seen prayer do mighty things and i have seen prayer move gnats...i have been laid off....i have seen death in the face...i have seen prayer work when nothing else would, nothing else would...


I've also seen dumb luck do the same things.

Look, like I said, I believe in God, I just don't think he lets kids die if nobody prays for them, but maybe saves them if someone does. What arrongance, to think that my will or my prayers are going to change the will of God. I pray to thank him for the things I have, to keep my thoughts on serving him and my fellow man, and to ask that he protect my wife every day. But I know that when God decides it's the end of my wife's time on earth, no ammount of praying by me is going to change his will. So when (if) that happens, I'll pray for stregnth.

I don't think our relationship with god is tit-for-tat or quid pro quo.

I don't believe in God because I survived a childhood illness, or because my positive HIV test turned out to be a false positive. I believe in God because I believe, period. If the original poster got done praying and nobody showed up and they had to walk 3 miles in the cold to call a tow truck and she got sick, is that any reason to NOT believe in God? If not, why is their friend showing up reason to believe in God?


"Finding" God because you got something you needed or wanted seems kind of superficial to me, is all I'm saying.
truethat
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 06:07 PM) *
That's great for you, but I hope you don't base your faith in God on your dad's friend showing up. Because God is going to let many, many, many bad things happen to you. Sometimes it seems like if you base a faith in god on good fortune happening, when bad fortune happens, God gets blamed and goes out the window.

I mean really, there's kids dying of malaria in some swamp in Ghanna. A mother just gave birth to a child with a disease that will give him a short life full of unbearable agony. But for some reason God was looking out for YOU in your dad's broken down jeep? I mean, sure, it's possiblel, but I just don't think God works that way. I think we don't know how God works, and you should have faith even when your loved ones are dying of disease and you are laid off from your job and your child is sick.

Eh, I don't know. I believe in God, but I don't think he's in the instant prayer answering business. I think it's bigger than that. but good for you, I hope you continue to find your version of God and happiness in god.




Good post. I think that its easy to get swept up in the idea that God answers prayers. But then when hell starts raining down you're gonna think about that twice.

I don't necessarily think that you should keep the faith if life is telling you this is the wrong thing.

I've been going through that lately. Thinking that there was a presence in my life but watching that presence escalate and escalate into more and more darkness creeping into my life.

People who are faithful reassure me that I'm under attack because evil is trying to turn me back.

But it goes back to the first thread I ever started on here. What if God is the evil one. I know what is GOOD. I feel it in my soul. And I've noticed that when I associate with certain groups, terrible things start happening in my life which then makes me wonder if those people are not so good after all.

Recently I've lost two female friends who were supposedly devoted Christians but led lifestyles that were absolutely not in the keeping of the Christian message of love, tolerance and walking the walk. They seemed to think throwing yourself before god and REPENTING was like a task you needed to perform in order to get saved. And in a moments hesitation they turned on a dime and were quite hateful towards me.

It makes me wonder what is going on. Where does it land? How do you have "community" with other Christians when everywhere you look you see intolerance and judgment and just something being off?

I used to have a strong sense of being able to be my own person in the midst of the calamity but lately I feel as though these kinds of people are having a negative impact in my real life.

So I've cut them out a great deal. But then at the end when you start to feel as though you are rewriting the script and that you can't be the "ONLY" one who thinks this way?

I don't know anymore.
Neognosis
QUOTE
People who are faithful reassure me that I'm under attack because evil is trying to turn me back.


No, you're just a human being living a life. And into every life some rain falls. Belief and prayer to God doesn't change this. God does what God does, who am I to question God? I try not to ask that things happen or don't happen (although I can't resist, sometimes...I'm human) but mostly I try to pray for stregnth to survive what is going to happen.

QUOTE
How do you have "community" with other Christians when everywhere you look you see intolerance and judgment and just something being off?


This is why I'm a christian without a religion. I think that the intolerance and judgement that Christianity is so well known for is NOT what Christ came to bring. If it is, and I'm wrong and the Christians I know who judge and ostracise and posture all the time are right, then I don't want to belong to their god anyway.
kanji
QUOTE (freak of nature @ Nov 12 2007, 12:51 PM) *
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!


I am very happy for you. Its amazing how prayer works. How far from Cleveland do you live?

And don't listen to the other people in this thread. It seems that those who don't have faith always feel the need to tear down those who do. For whatever reason. Don't let it get to you.



EDIT: A lot of people on these forums don't really understand prayer. Oh i know the basics are easy, but knowing what to pray for, when to do it, this is what is harder to understand. Since God is all knowing and all powerful, it is easy to sit there and assume that he should in fact answer every prayer. While asking God for direct help does indeed work sometimes, it is generally not the best thing to pray for in mundane situations. Car stalled by the side of the road with no phone and no help. Certainly. By all means pray and in this case it was answered.

I have found that praying for wisdom to chose my path and the strength to endure that path has always worked, and in hindsight i have stayed on the right path ever since i started praying less for physical things and needs, and prayed more for the wisdom to do things for myself. I attribute it all to God because i believe he is the one who has given me the wisdom to pick my path. There are times we will all falter and yes bad things will happen in this life. That comes from being in a larger world. You just pray for the strength to continue, pick yourself up and move on.
truethat
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 06:53 PM) *
No, you're just a human being living a life. And into every life some rain falls. Belief and prayer to God doesn't change this. God does what God does, who am I to question God? I try not to ask that things happen or don't happen (although I can't resist, sometimes...I'm human) but mostly I try to pray for stregnth to survive what is going to happen.




Yes but I can see a real difference, I'm not talking about into every life a little rain must fall. I'm talking feeling the presence of evil. It freaks me out. That the more I am pulled into it the more creepy stuff is happening.

Ex. In the last few months someone murdered my boss and friend by stabbing them to death, I was physically attacked somewhere (and no not your damaged oh that's why she's angry at men kinda thing although yes it was a group of men) rolleyes.gif

And that's just a few things. There's been a lot more not the least of which being just the other day my seven year old being trapped in a hamper and not being able to breathe and calling out to me but I didn't recognize his voice, I think any mother could tell you how freaked out that seems. And these are just a few things. But its been escalating and escalating when I am normally a pretty easy going person.

Telling me that I'm under attack bugs me because I'm like OK FINE I'm under attack but if dealing with God means a constant state of being under attack then what gives? Surely that would make any reasonable person rethink what they've begun to associate with?

ETA And I'm not BLAMING GOD for these things any more than I'd say he answered my prayers but others do. Others say "Oh he's at work in your life there, don't you see" but then when the creepy stuff starts to happen they lay it on thick that YOU are the one who is responsible for the bad stuff happening due to poor judgment. Or its just a coincidence. But then why isn't it a coincidence or my judgment when the good things happen. What's the difference?


QUOTE
This is why I'm a christian without a religion. I think that the intolerance and judgement that Christianity is so well known for is NOT what Christ came to bring. If it is, and I'm wrong and the Christians I know who judge and ostracise and posture all the time are right, then I don't want to belong to their god anyway.



Then what do you do? What do you do when this is how its practiced? I mean I see more and more people saying "this isn't Christianity" or this isn't "real Christians" but its what thrives. So what the hell is going on?
kanji
QUOTE (truethat @ Nov 12 2007, 02:01 PM) *
Yes but I can see a real difference, I'm not talking about into every life a little rain must fall. I'm talking feeling the presence of evil. It freaks me out. That the more I am pulled into it the more creepy stuff is happening.

Ex. In the last few months someone murdered my boss and friend by stabbing them to death, I was physically attacked somewhere (and no not your damaged oh that's why she's angry at men kinda thing although yes it was a group of men) rolleyes.gif

And that's just a few things. There's been a lot more not the least of which being just the other day my seven year old being trapped in a hamper and not being able to breathe and calling out to me but I didn't recognize his voice, I think any mother could tell you how freaked out that seems. And these are just a few things. But its been escalating and escalating when I am normally a pretty easy going person.

Telling me that I'm under attack bugs me because I'm like OK FINE I'm under attack but if dealing with God means a constant state of being under attack then what gives? Surely that would make any reasonable person rethink what they've begun to associate with?

ETA And I'm not BLAMING GOD for these things any more than I'd say he answered my prayers but others do. Others say "Oh he's at work in your life there, don't you see" but then when the creepy stuff starts to happen they lay it on thick that YOU are the one who is responsible for the bad stuff happening due to poor judgment. Or its just a coincidence. But then why isn't it a coincidence or my judgment when the good things happen. What's the difference?


Being a Christian, as evidenced by these forums, is to constantly be attacked because of your belief. If you are being attacked spiritually then thats where you pray. Sometimes i can feel the demons so thick that i feel im going to choke, if you feel like your under spiritual attack, its time to get down and pray. Pray for God to send his angels to protect you, pray for strength to endure, and if you feel up to it, Rebuke in the name of Jesus Christ the demons you feel are there. You will feel the pressure ease.

Demons will attack anyone they feel has doubt, magnifying that doubt and a feeling of helplessness till you feel like you will break in two. I know many people who call me in a complete and total panic, feeling like they cant breath and when asked what the problem is, it is almost always a very small thing which should never get someone worked up to the point of panic. Thats a very good way to tell when there is something else messing with you. Just food for thought.

QUOTE
Then what do you do? What do you do when this is how its practiced? I mean I see more and more people saying "this isn't Christianity" or this isn't "real Christians" but its what thrives. So what the hell is going on?


You cut out the crap so to speak. Go back to the basics of believing in God. For me thats the bible. I follow the bible and i don't consider myself a part of any church or religious group. I call myself a Christian and thats true, but i need no other person to tell me God's will or God's plan for our lives. The bible does that for us. Thats part of the reason it was written.
truethat



Seee this is precisely what I am talking about. Nearly ever Christian I have spoken to believes in demonic attack and thinks its just normal to be attacked this way if you've accepted Jesus.

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that maybe God is Evil? I started a thread about this ages ago. What kind of sense does it make to feel the presence of evil in your life if you've found God?

What the hell?
Sleeping with Fishes
QUOTE (freak of nature @ Nov 12 2007, 05:51 PM) *
The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awesome!



QUOTE (kanji @ Nov 12 2007, 06:54 PM) *
I am very happy for you. Its amazing how prayer works. How far from Cleveland do you live?

And don't listen to the other people in this thread. It seems that those who don't have faith always feel the need to tear down those who do. For whatever reason.

Nooooo. Do listen to the other people on the thread. By listening to differing opinions you will be in a much better position to continue to grow and make informed decisions about many things. I am not trying to belittle your belief in God, why would i do that? Your beliefs are YOUR beliefs and i would defend your right to hold them.

However, do not close your mind to the possibility that your beliefs may not be based on truth or that they may change over time. At one time you did not believe in God, now you do. It is possible that future events in your life may at some point cause you to revise, change, or strengthen your current beliefs. Sceptics get a lot of bad press, people assume they are closed minded. This is not always the case. people are closed minded (whether they be sceptics or believers).
randomhit10
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 06:32 PM) *
you believe in a God that lets little kids die of malaria, but he might save them IF someone prays hard enough? I can't get behind that.




I've also seen dumb luck do the same things.

Look, like I said, I believe in God, I just don't think he lets kids die if nobody prays for them, but maybe saves them if someone does. What arrongance, to think that my will or my prayers are going to change the will of God. I pray to thank him for the things I have, to keep my thoughts on serving him and my fellow man, and to ask that he protect my wife every day. But I know that when God decides it's the end of my wife's time on earth, no ammount of praying by me is going to change his will. So when (if) that happens, I'll pray for stregnth.

I don't think our relationship with god is tit-for-tat or quid pro quo.

I don't believe in God because I survived a childhood illness, or because my positive HIV test turned out to be a false positive. I believe in God because I believe, period. If the original poster got done praying and nobody showed up and they had to walk 3 miles in the cold to call a tow truck and she got sick, is that any reason to NOT believe in God? If not, why is their friend showing up reason to believe in God?


"Finding" God because you got something you needed or wanted seems kind of superficial to me, is all I'm saying.


if you rely on dumb luck then that's cool with me......as far as kids dying, that is our fault not God's...God gave us this world and gave us the laws a rules need to run it...He stepped back and turned us loose...go back into history and check...we have had enormous resources at our disposal but what did we do with them?...we used them to kill each other, or hold each other captive, to have power at our command...to be the top tomatoe....just think if we had used these resources for everyone's benefit...those kids you talk about would not be sick or would be helped....we have spent enough in Iraq to have helped a million starving people, a million sick kids....this is not God's fault but it is easier to sit back and point the finger at Him...gets us off the hook...we don't have to bear the responsibility of our own actions or lack of action...

as far as when it's time for someone to go, praying may not make a difference...what you pray for certainly will...but it is no secret that we will all die...and no amount of praying will stop physical death...i'm not really sure the point on this one...

well, what if she had to walk?...i have had similar situations myself...if you walk then you walk...

praying for someone else is not arrogance.

randomhit10



brave_new_world
QUOTE (freak of nature @ Nov 13 2007, 01:51 AM) *
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!



Here is a nice quote about God from a Quaker named James Nayler:

"...He is not to be found in the world, nor formal worship, nor in human wisdom and learning; but He is only to be found as He reveals Himself freely, to those who patiently wait for Him in Spirit..."

laugh.gif
Godofcats
QUOTE (freak of nature @ Nov 12 2007, 12:51 PM) *
Okay. I recently found God. My mother was working the election booths in my area and she needed some money. My dad told us all to get in our jeep because he did not want to go up alone. On our way home we broke down. I wanted to believe in God but i had soo many questions about Him.
For some reason I prayed He would help us. It was really cold and no one had a working phone. The minuet I was done praying on of dads friend pulled up and helped. I no longer have any questions about Him. Isn't that awsome!


that's cool, i had stuff happen like that to me after praying. i don't like the term "found" god. because god is always with us, we just have to notice him. some people just don't want to.
Neognosis
QUOTE
I'm talking feeling the presence of evil. It freaks me out


QUOTE
Ex. In the last few months someone murdered my boss and friend by stabbing them to death, I was physically attacked somewhere (and no not your damaged oh that's why she's angry at men kinda thing although yes it was a group of men)


Happens EVERY DAY. People get stabbed, people get attacked. There's someone out there who has had a family member killed today, they were attacked, AND their child was just diagnosed with cancer and they lost their job. And their spouse also died.

SIHT happens. No demons or monsters are making things happen to you. There's no mystical evil surrounding you or battling for your mind and soul.

I would recommend that you ask God for stregnth and to deal with the stuff that's going on, I would ask him to change things but if he can't do that then ask for stregnth and wisdom.
And I would think about seeing a psychologist to help you deal with the emotional issues your're having. God gave us psychologists too.

QUOTE
Sometimes i can feel the demons so thick that i feel im going to choke, if you feel like your under spiritual attack, its time to get down and pray. Pray for God to send his angels to protect you, pray for strength to endure, and if you feel up to it, Rebuke in the name of Jesus Christ the demons you feel are there.


Alright, that's fine for some, but I dont' buy it. Believing that demons are the root of your problems and you should rebuke them is just avoidance and projection. it must be a tiring life if you believe that you are besieged by actual demons all the time and you can't breathe. Sounds like mental illness to me, or depression. (I get depressed a lot during the winter, but I'm pretty sure it's a lack of sunlight, the cold, and the economy, combined with my brain's inablility to properly make certain chemicals during the winter. Not demons.)

But hey, if you think it works for you, by all means fight those literal demons.

QUOTE
Then what do you do? What do you do when this is how its practiced? I mean I see more and more people saying "this isn't Christianity" or this isn't "real Christians" but its what thrives. So what the hell is going on?


You do what you know is right, even if that means you don't get to be in the church social group and your "friends" don't like you anymore. What do you need a religion for when you have God anyway?

You live the way you think God is telling you to live no matter what other people say and do.

Simple as that.







Beckys_Mom
QUOTE
sh** happens. No demons or monsters are making things happen to you. There's no mystical evil surrounding you or battling for your mind and soul.


EXACTLY...it happens to those that are close to God just in the same way it happens to those who arent....
Sleeping with Fishes
QUOTE (kanji @ Nov 12 2007, 06:54 PM) *
A lot of people on these forums don't really understand prayer. Oh i know the basics are easy, but knowing what to pray for, when to do it, this is what is harder to understand. Since God is all knowing and all powerful, it is easy to sit there and assume that he should in fact answer every prayer. While asking God for direct help does indeed work sometimes, it is generally not the best thing to pray for in mundane situations. Car stalled by the side of the road with no phone and no help. Certainly. By all means pray and in this case it was answered.



Serious question for you. If your god is all seeing and all knowing, and a merciful god that loves you, what then is the purpose of prayer? Surely you do not need to pray. He already knows when you are going to need assistance and he will provide it, because he loves you.
SunDogDayze
QUOTE
I know many people who call me in a complete and total panic, feeling like they cant breath and when asked what the problem is, it is almost always a very small thing which should never get someone worked up to the point of panic. Thats a very good way to tell when there is something else messing with you. Just food for thought.


Kanji...this is known as stress. Are you telling me that when someone calls you and is stressed out about something you tell them it is a demon? Hm.

Okay, what about panic attacks? They can be symptoms of an underlying problem, like thyroid issues or depression. If someone went to an ER complaining of difficulty breathing, rapid heart rate, and panicked feeling for no reason, do you think the triage nurse would perform an exorcism? Come on.

You can't find god by praying about something so meaningless and it happening. God does not answer every prayer, and so then if he has to pick and choose, why would he respond to yours when others are praying for their dying son's tumor to disappear?

And, if anyone believes that god is controlling the good and satan is controlling the bad that happen to us, what do you think would happen if every human being on earth started praying to god for stuff? Would we all get what we want? Would death, destruction, suffering all end because everyone was praying to god? Would that kill satan, since he could do nothing to hurt anyone anymore?

Or do you think that the same amount of suffering would ensue, that people would keep dying, destruction would still happen. Yes. Because praying does not work that way.

If it did, I would already be a millionaire.
Papaver
And why let you break down in the first place?

Don't tell me, God moves in mysterious ways?

(Hi Spanky BTW!)
truethat
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 07:42 PM) *
Happens EVERY DAY. People get stabbed, people get attacked. There's someone out there who has had a family member killed today, they were attacked, AND their child was just diagnosed with cancer and they lost their job. And their spouse also died.

SIHT happens. No demons or monsters are making things happen to you. There's no mystical evil surrounding you or battling for your mind and soul.

I would recommend that you ask God for stregnth and to deal with the stuff that's going on, I would ask him to change things but if he can't do that then ask for stregnth and wisdom.



I find it odd that you don't see the oxymoron in this statement. So its not that demons are making the bad stuff happen because they aren't real. But the good guy is REAL so just pray to God?

I mean you are an intelligent person surely you can see the stupidity in this statement, yet its at the absolute corner stone of Christian belief. God only does the good stuff.

Never mind that before you began associating yourself with this element your life was pretty good and the minute you began to deal with it all sorts of terrible things happen.

Sorry yes murder happens every day. But I do believe that when you allow negativity into your life it can permeate it. So this is what it looks like to me.

But just because God is who you consider a good guy, its not possible?

Not sure about that.
Neognosis
QUOTE
So its not that demons are making the bad stuff happen because they aren't real. But the good guy is REAL so just pray to God?


You're not understanding me. And truthat, please read my posts with an empty mind, because you are putting things there that I didn't write.

Demons don't make bad things happen to you, and God doesn't make bad or good things happen to you. God simply IS and DOES. When bad things happen, for whatever reason, ask God for stregnth to deal with them, and tell God that you are but a person and he is God, but if there is any way that he can intervene and help you out, please let it be done.

God isn't a man in a white robe and a beard on a cloud. I don't know what God is, I just feel that God exists. For God to do good, it does not follow that demons have to exist to do bad. God allows evil to happen, that much is clear. Why? I don't know. I'm just a person. What is my knowledge when compared to God?

QUOTE
Sorry yes murder happens every day. But I do believe that when you allow negativity into your life it can permeate it. So this is what it looks like to me.


Negativity, and conversly, positivity, can only help how you deal with situations, they can not cause a situation. You can't become rich by thinking positive, or poor by thinking negatively. But your frame of mind can affect your actions, which can affect how you do in life. There's no mystical "secret" to any of it.
truethat
QUOTE (Neognosis @ Nov 12 2007, 09:06 PM) *
You're not understanding me. And truthat, please read my posts with an empty mind, because you are putting things there that I didn't write.

Demons don't make bad things happen to you, and God doesn't make bad or good things happen to you. God simply IS and DOES. When bad things happen, for whatever reason, ask God for stregnth to deal with them, and tell God that you are but a person and he is God, but if there is any way that he can intervene and help you out, please let it be done.

God isn't a man in a white robe and a beard on a cloud. I don't know what God is, I just feel that God exists. For God to do good, it does not follow that demons have to exist to do bad. God allows evil to happen, that much is clear. Why? I don't know. I'm just a person. What is my knowledge when compared to God?



Negativity, and conversly, positivity, can only help how you deal with situations, they can not cause a situation. You can't become rich by thinking positive, or poor by thinking negatively. But your frame of mind can affect your actions, which can affect how you do in life. There's no mystical "secret" to any of it.



If someone allows evil to happen I think we'd say they are part of the evil no?

That's my point. You say that you don't think God helps people so then what's the point in praying?

Thank you though for saying that God allows evil to happen. That's what's been bugging at me. You've helped clear my head a bit wih that. Thanks.
randomhit10
QUOTE (Spanky_ @ Nov 12 2007, 07:53 PM) *
Serious question for you. If your god is all seeing and all knowing, and a merciful god that loves you, what then is the purpose of prayer? Surely you do not need to pray. He already knows when you are going to need assistance and he will provide it, because he loves you.


He wants to know that you know.

randomhit10
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (truethat @ Nov 12 2007, 08:01 PM) *
Yes but I can see a real difference, I'm not talking about into every life a little rain must fall. I'm talking feeling the presence of evil. It freaks me out. That the more I am pulled into it the more creepy stuff is happening.

Ex. In the last few months someone murdered my boss and friend by stabbing them to death, I was physically attacked somewhere (and no not your damaged oh that's why she's angry at men kinda thing although yes it was a group of men) rolleyes.gif

And that's just a few things. There's been a lot more not the least of which being just the other day my seven year old being trapped in a hamper and not being able to breathe and calling out to me but I didn't recognize his voice, I think any mother could tell you how freaked out that seems. And these are just a few things. But its been escalating and escalating when I am normally a pretty easy going person.

Telling me that I'm under attack bugs me because I'm like OK FINE I'm under attack but if dealing with God means a constant state of being under attack then what gives? Surely that would make any reasonable person rethink what they've begun to associate with?

ETA And I'm not BLAMING GOD for these things any more than I'd say he answered my prayers but others do. Others say "Oh he's at work in your life there, don't you see" but then when the creepy stuff starts to happen they lay it on thick that YOU are the one who is responsible for the bad stuff happening due to poor judgment. Or its just a coincidence. But then why isn't it a coincidence or my judgment when the good things happen. What's the difference?





Then what do you do? What do you do when this is how its practiced? I mean I see more and more people saying "this isn't Christianity" or this isn't "real Christians" but its what thrives. So what the hell is going on?



True I'm so sorry that you are going through such a dark time ohmy.gif . True it doesn't matter if people are christian,atheist or whatever -what counts is their core. Don't listen to labels. We both know there are good and bad eggs no matter what label they wear. If you have a good intuition trust it and use it.
I have been around and seen unbelievable horror in my life that's why I'm living on another continent because I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't feel safe. Maybe I just had to move to another city state, who knows. But if I move back there I think I know how to stay out of harms way.
I've learned to trust my gut finally. I'm just very depressed the last years and I need to do something about it besides argueing on this forum al the time trying to distract/escape.
Life's a roller coaster and you are possibly on the dipping part. Maybe you need to get out of the enviroment your'e in ? I hope that you and your children are safe ? true it just sounds like your in the wrong place at the wrong time and having some bad luck> I don't know how your judgement of character is ?
Sleeping with Fishes
QUOTE (randomhit10 @ Nov 12 2007, 09:30 PM) *
He wants to know that you know.

randomhit10



But he already does. That is not a satisfactory answer.
Darkwind
If instead of your dad's friend showing up it was an ax murder would you blame God for letting you down?
truethat
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Nov 12 2007, 09:35 PM) *
True I'm so sorry that you are going through such a dark time ohmy.gif . True it doesn't matter if people are christian,atheist or whatever -what counts is their core. Don't listen to labels. We both know there are good and bad eggs no matter what label they wear. If you have a good intuition trust it and use it.
I have been around and seen unbelievable horror in my life that's why I'm living on another continent because I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't feel safe. Maybe I just had to move to another city state, who knows. But if I move back there I think I know how to stay out of harms way.
I've learned to trust my gut finally. I'm just very depressed the last years and I need to do something about it besides argueing on this forum al the time trying to distract/escape.
Life's a roller coaster and you are possibly on the dipping part. Maybe you need to get out of the enviroment your'e in ? I hope that you and your children are safe ? true it just sounds like your in the wrong place at the wrong time and having some bad luck> I don't know how your judgement of character is ?


Oddly everything is fine. I roll with the punches with the best of them. I'm not "at risk" in that I am taken care of by my spouse and I'm happy in life. Extremely happy. Its just that I've noticed people will say "Demons are attacking you" as if its normal. And to me, if you as a Christian associate demonic attack with accepting God then it just makes me wonder why you don't think God might be not so hot. Or this particular God.

I'm sorry you were going through a lot. Life is too short to be overwhelming. I've learned that even if you think "cosmically" if you learn to focus on yourself and your loved ones it makes the world a beautiful place and not so frightening. That's not to say that you don't care about what's going on but rather removing the omnipotent guilt that says you have to fix it all before you can start having your own happiness.

Addicts think this way. That's why some of them use drugs, to escape from the pain of that guilt. For me I've learned that when you operate this way you become a narcissist as though no one else but you can solve it. The world is filled with strong warriors. Let them do their job. Even if people are not actual addicts (I'm not) they can still have similar patterns. Not suggesting that you are an addict. Its just something I've learned in working with them.

Good luck to you.
Neognosis
QUOTE
If someone allows evil to happen I think we'd say they are part of the evil no?

That's my point. You say that you don't think God helps people so then what's the point in praying?


I don't know the nature of God, so I can't say God is part of the evil for letting evil things happen. I do know that man has free will and we do evil things, and god allows us that freedom to do good or evil, for what that's worth.

I didn't say that I don't think God helps people. I just don't think he serves as a prayer answering center. I think he has his will, and I think it is so all encompassing that it isn't likely to change because someone is stuck in a broken down jeep on the road. Although, maybe, who knows? Surely, I don't know how or why God does what he does.

The point of praying, for me, is to keep god in my life daily, to thank him for the life he gave me, and to pray for protection for my wife. Now, as I said, I think that when it's my wife's time, the fact that I pray for her isn't going to sway God from taking her, but what the heck, right? Why not ask for protection.

The whole point of my first post was that "finding" God because you got something you prayed for seems like a pretty weak reason for accepting God. If you found God because you got something from him, are you going to "loose" god when he takes from you, or you don't get something you need?

Should I believe in God because I prayed for and found my wife, and then loose faith if he takes her from me? I don't think that an answer to a prayer is a real reason to believe in God. Seems superficial to me.
momentarylapseofreason
QUOTE (truethat @ Nov 12 2007, 10:47 PM) *
Oddly everything is fine. I roll with the punches with the best of them. I'm not "at risk" in that I am taken care of by my spouse and I'm happy in life. Extremely happy. Its just that I've noticed people will say "Demons are attacking you" as if its normal. And to me, if you as a Christian associate demonic attack with accepting God then it just makes me wonder why you don't think God might be not so hot. Or this particular God.

I'm sorry you were going through a lot. Life is too short to be overwhelming. I've learned that even if you think "cosmically" if you learn to focus on yourself and your loved ones it makes the world a beautiful place and not so frightening. That's not to say that you don't care about what's going on but rather removing the omnipotent guilt that says you have to fix it all before you can start having your own happiness.

Addicts think this way. That's why some of them use drugs, to escape from the pain of that guilt. For me I've learned that when you operate this way you become a narcissist as though no one else but you can solve it. The world is filled with strong warriors. Let them do their job. Even if people are not actual addicts (I'm not) they can still have similar patterns. Not suggesting that you are an addict. Its just something I've learned in working with them.

Good luck to you.


thanks

edited because WAY OFF topic wink2.gif
Godofcats
i had a thought that didn't have anything to do with this thread. i'm wondering why skepticals are coming in here debating in these kind of threads. this is the spirituality, religion, and beliefs thread were people can come talk about there religion in peace without skeptics coming in talking about how wrong or stupid they are. this isn't the religion vs skepticals forum. damn leave people alone and in peace with their religion. i was just thinking about that but it's a free county(for now at least, it starting to go to you can't even believe what you want anymore) and a free web site so i guess you can post anything anywhere.
kanji
QUOTE (Godofcats @ Nov 12 2007, 07:06 PM) *
i had a thought that didn't have anything to do with this thread. i'm wondering why skepticals are coming in here debating in these kind of threads. this is the spirituality, religion, and beliefs thread were people can come talk about there religion in peace without skeptics coming in talking about how wrong or stupid they are. this isn't the religion vs skepticals forum. damn leave people alone and in peace with their religion. i was just thinking about that but it's a free county(for now at least, it starting to go to you can't even believe what you want anymore) and a free web site so i guess you can post anything anywhere.


Amen.

If you want to have a discussion on how cruel you think God is great. Start your own thread. How hard it is to be happy for someone who found what they were looking for.
Cadetak
Find yourself.

Personal strength, wisdom, courage, enlightenment, etc. exists without any god.
Odd Christian
I am glad you found Him. Now take the time to get to know Him.
truethat

I didn't criticize the person who said they found God. And this is a thread not a blog entry. If the person wanted to keep the thread to themselves they should have blogged the entry.
MissMelsWell
I think this thread has taken an interesting turn.

BNW is doing a little education dabbling in my faith right now and he brings up some interesting points.

My personal feeling has always been that God works through us, not on us.

God gave me the ability to rely on myself, gave me instincts, gave me strength and empathy and more. He expects me to use those gifts wisely. If I lose my job, I don't hope God will hear my prayers and find me a job... God expects me to use my wits and strength and resources to do for myself even if that means asking my friends, family and community to support me. They are also a gift. If you think about it, giving a gift is easy... receiving a gift, embracing it, and taking responsibility for it is SO much harder. That's where God love and guidance comes in. A quiet still mind is a way to let God in to reiforce his love, and strengthen our fortitude so we can stand up and do for ourselves.

I don't believe God dips his divine hand down and helps us through miracles... the miracle is that he gave us strength to accept his gifts and create our own miracles. And it's beautiful.
brave_new_world
Beautifully written Missmelswell. I have never been so excited about religion since joining the quakers (though I mean that in the least formal context). I cannot believe how little Quakerism is known by other Christians. George Fox's (have read extremely little on him but what I have read has blown my mind away) interpretation of Christianity is one of the most liberal I have ever come across and so compatible with other religions. It is as if he was influenced by buddhism or hinduism but in actuality he simply interpreted christ's teachings for what they truely are. Check these quotes by him and other early quakers I found and put in my personal Bible:

Keep within. And when they say, 'lo here', or 'lo there' is Christ; go not forth; for Christ is within you. And they are seducers and antichrists, which draw your minds out from the teachings within you.

--George Fox

You will say, Christ saith this, and the apostles say this; but what canst thou say? Art thou a child of Light and hast walked in the Light, and what thou speakest is it inwardly from God?

---George Fox


And the law of God is written in every heart, and it is there that he manifests himself; And in infinite love, according to our necessities, states, conditions. And as we are all various and different from one another, more or less, so the law by the immediate operation of divine grace in the soul, is suited to every individual according to his condition.

---Elias Hicks


Now I find that in pure obedience the mind learns contentment, in appearing weak and foolish to the wisdom which is of this World; and in these lowly labors, they who stand in a low place, rightly exercised under the Cross, will find nourishment.

--John Woolman


We are inclined to call things by the wrong names. We call prosperity 'happiness', and adversity 'misery' eventhough adversity is the school of wisdom and often the way to eternal happiness.

---William Penn


The adventure of the Christian life begins when we dare to do what we would never tackle without Christ. --- William Penn




laugh.gif I dont think there is anything anyone can actually criticize about quakerism.


sede-x-teh-bomb
QUOTE (MissMelsWell @ Nov 13 2007, 10:30 AM) *
I think this thread has taken an interesting turn.

BNW is doing a little education dabbling in my faith right now and he brings up some interesting points.

My personal feeling has always been that God works through us, not on us.

God gave me the ability to rely on myself, gave me instincts, gave me strength and empathy and more. He expects me to use those gifts wisely. If I lose my job, I don't hope God will hear my prayers and find me a job... God expects me to use my wits and strength and resources to do for myself even if that means asking my friends, family and community to support me. They are also a gift. If you think about it, giving a gift is easy... receiving a gift, embracing it, and taking responsibility for it is SO much harder. That's where God love and guidance comes in. A quiet still mind is a way to let God in to reiforce his love, and strengthen our fortitude so we can stand up and do for ourselves.

I don't believe God dips his divine hand down and helps us through miracles... the miracle is that he gave us strength to accept his gifts and create our own miracles. And it's beautiful.


Sorry, if i may ask, What exactly does he/she do then?

because, i mean, every human i know experiences those things you wrote without any thought of a divine influence.
freak of nature
I never said i didn't believe in the first place. i was raised to believe. but when my uncle died two years ago i blamed myself. then i kinnda lost site of what i believed in. when i started going to church with my uncle i realized i had lost site of God and wanted Him back in my life. He doesn't have to answer every prayer and listen to every request. maybe everything bad is just his way to test us.
randomhit10
QUOTE (Spanky_ @ Nov 12 2007, 09:36 PM) *
But he already does. That is not a satisfactory answer.


yes He does...but do you know?...are you clear in your own mind?...why is that not satisfactory?...too simple?

randomhit10
randomhit10
QUOTE (Spanky_ @ Nov 12 2007, 07:53 PM) *
Serious question for you. If your god is all seeing and all knowing, and a merciful god that loves you, what then is the purpose of prayer? Surely you do not need to pray. He already knows when you are going to need assistance and he will provide it, because he loves you.


allignment.

randomhit10
MissMelsWell
QUOTE (Zombie Jesus @ Nov 13 2007, 03:13 AM) *
Sorry, if i may ask, What exactly does he/she do then?

because, i mean, every human i know experiences those things you wrote without any thought of a divine influence.


You're correct, they do. I can't tell you what God "does" it's something you have to choose to find for yourself. I'm not interested in debating it because this isn't a vs Skeptics thread.

Glad you're enjoying your journey BNW... And ya, I dig William Penn... that quote you printed was my sig here for a while. I think it's profound in a lot of ways.
brave_new_world
QUOTE (MissMelsWell @ Nov 13 2007, 11:59 PM) *
You're correct, they do. I can't tell you what God "does" it's something you have to choose to find for yourself. I'm not interested in debating it because this isn't a vs Skeptics thread.

Glad you're enjoying your journey BNW... And ya, I dig William Penn... that quote you printed was my sig here for a while. I think it's profound in a lot of ways.


I found this quote. I think it will surprise both christians and non-christians:

It was the only treaty made by the settlers with the Indians that was never sworn to, and the only one that was never broken.

~ Voltaire, contrasting Penn's treaty with the Delaware (Leni Lenape) Indians, with most others that had been made in the colonization of America.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE (Godofcats @ Nov 13 2007, 01:06 AM) *
i had a thought that didn't have anything to do with this thread. i'm wondering why skepticals are coming in here debating in these kind of threads. this is the spirituality, religion, and beliefs thread were people can come talk about there religion in peace without skeptics coming in talking about how wrong or stupid they are. this isn't the religion vs skepticals forum. damn leave people alone and in peace with their religion. i was just thinking about that but it's a free county(for now at least, it starting to go to you can't even believe what you want anymore) and a free web site so i guess you can post anything anywhere.

****as you have went off topic to rant lol...this is off topic too and i apologize in advance to the OP****Believe it or not...but I have lost count how often I have read this statement from a christian ON the skeptics board LOL they go on there and say this to skeptics and get angered if a skeptic gives their opinion...so UMM kinna like both boards are for the one kind in their eyes


Look at this board.(not speaking of this thread) ..there are threads that ASK questions about faith and God...if someone is asking a question in that respect..then obviously they will get skeptics in answering...so I wondered WHY posts up threads that look like something that both non christins and christians answer...I have seen a number of threads that I thought should have been put to the other board...and at times when I am on this board I feel it is the skeptics board..only because of how some people have managed their thread ideas and im NOT kidding blink.gif a quick example....one of the mods posted up a poll question asking people - do they feel religion is forced fed <----thats just a big invite to skeptics...WHY??? because a lot of skeptic claim it has been forced fed.... http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=110756 seriously an invite he even states views from skeptics welcome in this thread. iroinically made by a mod lol .. grin2.gif

Here is another thing..do you believe this board is only for christians?? or is it for those who follow God and only those that follow God?? <--serious question but to keep it OFF this topic ..if you can answer me in PM...great

Sorry again for the off topic response to Godofcats original.gif

carry on

PS I agree with your other statement..We dont find god...he was always with us <--yea IMO I believe it be true
Sphinx777
I am glad that you have found your spirituality... may eternal blessings be upon you...

Also, if you're interested, you may find some of these sites to be of use...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...logid=1497&


God Bless,
Take Care!
randomhit10
QUOTE (brave_new_world @ Nov 13 2007, 10:47 AM) *
Beautifully written Missmelswell. I have never been so excited about religion since joining the quakers (though I mean that in the least formal context). I cannot believe how little Quakerism is known by other Christians. George Fox's (have read extremely little on him but what I have read has blown my mind away) interpretation of Christianity is one of the most liberal I have ever come across and so compatible with other religions. It is as if he was influenced by buddhism or hinduism but in actuality he simply interpreted christ's teachings for what they truely are. Check these quotes by him and other early quakers I found and put in my personal Bible:

Keep within. And when they say, 'lo here', or 'lo there' is Christ; go not forth; for Christ is within you. And they are seducers and antichrists, which draw your minds out from the teachings within you.

--George Fox

You will say, Christ saith this, and the apostles say this; but what canst thou say? Art thou a child of Light and hast walked in the Light, and what thou speakest is it inwardly from God?

---George Fox


And the law of God is written in every heart, and it is there that he manifests himself; And in infinite love, according to our necessities, states, conditions. And as we are all various and different from one another, more or less, so the law by the immediate operation of divine grace in the soul, is suited to every individual according to his condition.

---Elias Hicks


Now I find that in pure obedience the mind learns contentment, in appearing weak and foolish to the wisdom which is of this World; and in these lowly labors, they who stand in a low place, rightly exercised under the Cross, will find nourishment.

--John Woolman


We are inclined to call things by the wrong names. We call prosperity 'happiness', and adversity 'misery' eventhough adversity is the school of wisdom and often the way to eternal happiness.

---William Penn


The adventure of the Christian life begins when we dare to do what we would never tackle without Christ. --- William Penn




laugh.gif I dont think there is anything anyone can actually criticize about quakerism.


thanks for posting the information about Quakerism...i did not know much about it...i have been pleasantly informed and surprised by what you have told about it...keep posting...

randomhit10
Neognosis
QUOTE
but when my uncle died two years ago i blamed myself.


Why did you think you were responsible for your uncle's death?


I like quakerism, except the whole modesty and plain clothes thing. Up until there, they seemed pretty much in line with my thinking.
brave_new_world
QUOTE (randomhit10 @ Nov 16 2007, 12:22 AM) *
thanks for posting the information about Quakerism...i did not know much about it...i have been pleasantly informed and surprised by what you have told about it...keep posting...

randomhit10



http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...108171&st=0
Here is some stuff from my Quakerism thread:


Peace Testimony of the Society of Friends


We utterly deny all outward wars and strife, and fightings with outward weapons, for any end, or under any pretence whatever; this is our testimony to the whole world. The Spirit of Christ by which we are guided is not changeable, so as once to command us from a thing as evil, and again to move unto it; and we certainly know, and testify to the world, the the Spirit of Christ, which leads us into all truth, will never move us to fight and war against any man with outward weapons, neither for the kingdom of Christ nor for the kingdoms of the world.

---From A Declaration from the Harmless and Innocent People of God, called Quakers, presented to Charles 2. 1660


Here are some last words of a famous quaker called James Nayler:

There is a spirit which I feel that delights to do no evil, nor to revenge any wrong, but delights to endure all things, in hope to enjoy its own in the end. Its hope is to outlive all wrath and contention, and to weary out all exaltation and cruelty, or whatever is of a nature contrary to itself. It sees to the end of all temptations. As it bears no evil in itself, so it conceives none in thought to any other. If it be betrayed, it bears it, for its ground and spring is the mercies and forgiveness of God. Its crown is meekness, its life is everlasting love unfeigned; it takes its kingdom with entreaty and not with contention, and keeps it by lowliness of mind. In God alone it can rejoice, though none else regard it, or can own its life. It is conceived in sorrow, and brought forth without any to pity it; nor doth it murmur at grief and oppression. It never rejoiceth but through sufferings; for with the world's joy it is murdered. I found it alone, being forsaken. I have fellowship therein with them who lived in dens and desolate places of the earth, who through death obtained this resurrection and eternal holy life.

Thou wast with me when I fled from the face of mine enemies: then didst Thou warn me in the night: Thou carriedst me in Thy power into the hiding-place Thou hadst prepared for me: there Thou coveredst me with Thy Hand that in time Thou mightst bring me forth a rock before all the world. When I was weak Thou stayedst me with Thy Hand, that in Thy time Thou mightst present me to the world in Thy strength in which I stand, and cannot be moved. Praise the Lord, O my soul. Let this be written for those that come after. Praise the Lord.




This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.