Why the Caution? Why the 'nag' on Credible and Verifiable proof?

Here is why!

Local Story # 01 - Name w/held because these are children.

9 yr old boy. Parent's were 'believers that their son was an "Indigo Child"' Their son had talked to them several times about a dreams of him flying like Superman. According to the son and the parents: They had told their son, "Since you are an Indigo Child, anything could be possible for you."

So he finally thought to put his "Indigo Powers" to work. His house had a 3rd story window, attic. He thought that this would be high enough to give his dream to fly, enough time to work.

No, the 3rd story window was not enough. He was hospitalized with multiple broken bones and head injuries. It will be some time before the physical injuries heal not to mention the emotional and psychological ones heal.

Local Story # 02 - Again names w/held because these are children.

Jr High boys, four of them decided it was time to "teach a few school bullies a lesson". They were part of a group that practiced "Psi Energy Constructs" and "Psi Power Attacks" - aka - "psi balls" were mentioned as-well-as other "psi energy powers".
The day had come to 'teach the lessons to the bullies" They felt they had practiced enough and they were ready!
These four boys were admitted to the ER w/minor broken bones, cuts, bruises and other injuries. Not to mention the emotional and psychological ones.
Since the "Psi Boys" started the fight, the 'bullies' were not held accountable for the 'outcome'.

Ok, so what happened?
These boys in both stories obviously thought they had enough belief in their powers.
Wasn't that enough? --> NO
They felt they were ready on some personal level.
Wasn't that enough? --> No

Even the innocences and belief of a child wasn't enough? --> No! Not even with parental support!

That is why I 'harp' on kids to find Credible and Verifiable Proof! Because at some point you are going to have to face on of two facts:

1. This is real and you have to take that "step of faith".
---> NOT A GOOD IDEA!!
2. Face the clear fact --> This is all Fantasy.

Why else believe in this if it's not to 'get it to work'? Either it's going to work or its not! It's just that simple! Why else to choose to believe in it?

Well obviously faith isn't enough. Obviously believing your are ready isn't enough. Obviously practice and meditation and practice and meditation isn't enough, because enough people have "been down that road" w/ZERO results.

Even Universities and such which have studied this for decades have found no evidence to support any of this.....

So where does that leave it .....? Really, where does one go w/ALL the first hand and second hand reports, not to mention the "Preacher" - "teachers" and "Talkers" of this, having NOTHING to offer except --- T A L K and more T A L K --- but NO, ZERO, ZIP, NADA credible or verifiable proof? It leaves it as FANTASY.

Also as I asked one "believer". They was shocked at the two stories. For which I asked, "Why? Isn't that the purpose of this? To make it work in your life? What is the purpose of believing in this if you are not intending to make it work? To make 'it happen'? They had NO ANSWER, other then what the kids above did was, "stupid".

Now the thing is, also. A friend of mine in a local police station has told me that other similar reports are starting to happen else where in the USA. So is it time to take a little stand? I would say, "Yes ... it is..."

Thoughts - Comments?

I totally agree and im glad you posted this, perhaps someone will learn something from it. While I dont think its all fantasy I do think its a serious problem that should be taken very very seriously.

Thoughts?

Yep, two. For one we are doomed. As a people we are wholly, completely and utterly doomed. I fear we may be too far gone at this point...just....too far gone....

Two is that your post will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Its not warm and fuzzy Jj. Reality, truth, facts, test results. None of these things are feel good, soft and squishy, make me feel better about myself because it is the only way for me to become a well adjusted citizen, warm and fuzzy aspects of life.

Why be thrown into the sea of reality, smash against the reef of truth, finally wash ashore on the cold dead island of fact, stand yourself up, brush yourself off and be a better person for it?

Why do this when there is the technicolor disney like land of belief where everything is perfect and right and possible and just peachy, where delusion rules the day and smites anything that may threaten the illusion?

Doomed I tell you. Doomed.....

Comments?

Yeah I've got some of those as well but Im sure you know along what lines those would be......

Kevin A.

yes but do you think everyone in here is as stupid as those people stated in your story? People believe for different reasons and its not nice to put them all in the same place as those people in your story. Me for example would never openly ask for a fight. Or jump out of windows just to test my "powers" i will retain enough common sense not to kill or injure myself. Do realise that you can give advice but you cannot force people to accept it. please allow people to believe without worrying they will kill themselves thats the point. Because I believe very few people will do the same as your story and i do believe also that most people in these fourms will not kill themselves over their belief

I appeciate the concern you show

Kev -

I hate to admit this, but I fear you are correct on all accounts of your post.

I am not even sure what else to say -- we are doomed. Totally .....

no we are not doomed maybe wait for year 2012 before saying we are doomed. And you did not reply to my post.

lmao, I agree with woe, we may be even more doomed in 2012 depending on our president but in all seriousness the kids who already know about these things are a lost cause yes, but what about those who dont? and all the children that have yet to be born? it would be nice if we could fix this for them dont ya think?

The problem I see - Dark S is this.

A. Parents contributed to the injuries of their son.
.... They encouraged this dream, instead of being balanced and parents and explaining reality -v- fantasy.
B. What is the ultimate purpose of these kids trying to learn their "Kinesis" powers. To use them ... other wise why bother?
..... The problem here is these kids are 'feeding' each other in this fantasy. Telling them they "feel" this or that 'energy' being formed by them. This is what happened w/the "Bully Teachers" - they 'fed' each other to the point that they felt they were ready!

Again the bottom line is: Why believe this? Why try to learn it? If it's not for the purpose to USE IT! In ALL the fantasy shows these powers are used in defense of one kind or another .... so that is the GOAL!

So there are to options here:

A. They will pursue this to a point of 'reality' to use it! Other wise again, why bother?
B. They will come to realize the fantasy and move on in their lives and grow up.

So if they continue the path of A. ... then problems will arise, it is inevitable.

wrong people can devlop them for spiritial purposes not only to use it.

Humans are selfish creatures, and are hopelessly absorbed in themselves. Everyone wants to be different, everyone wants to be special. The concept of Psi and Indigo children gives people that chance - to stand out from conformity. This human nature will always bite us, be it by this or something else.

EDIT: In other words, yes, we are doomed!

well then lets say this
you are doomed i am not doomed

Year 2012. Everyone is doomed.

the end of the world

Yea, watch - they'll even screw that up .....

BTW: Ziggy - your in-box is full as of yesterday.

its good if its scewed up at least i won't have to die

Trust me Woe -- the world is not going to end in 2010 or 2012 ... it's just another scam people are trying to sell books on, to make money so they can retire AFTER 2013.... Funny how that works.... Hmm.....

it honostly makes no difference to me if I die in 2012 as long as I get to do a few things first....

I'm the same, death means nothing to me.

Yeah, I mean, wats the point in getting worked up about something you have no control over. However, I do not wish to die with regrets.

thats a lovely thought

I blame the parents of these kids.....

Kids will always act irresponsibly and immature, they think they're invincible and do not understand fully the idea of serious injury and/or death.....

But their parents ?? How can they encourage these ideas and thoughts ?? It's okay to encourage and support your kids but not if it will be to their detriment.....Parents need to step up and sometimes tell their kids, "NO"......

Well in the case of Story #1 - yes I also blame the parents ... and I think so does the state... (Time will tell....)

In case of Story #2 - I honestly do not think, based on the reports, that the parents were even aware of this going on. So a little hard to blame the parents if they are not aware.

But all in all --- these fantasies have begun to just reach the line of being more then just concerning .....

Parents are to blame true, but where do the kids get these ideas to start with? TV, movies, and even here. theres so many people on here that state they have abilities the kids are like "Hey maybe I have abilities too!" and besides the point, they're kids, they cant help it. we have to help ourselves by lowering the bar a little. Im not saying get rid of psi all together thats dumb. but we need to tone it done so kids stop getting this dumb ideas to jump outta windows or light they're hands on fire to see if they can manipulate the flames

I agree DS .... it's NOT just the parents fault ... (except in the case of story #01. Parents SHOULD have used more wisdom....)

But yes - the kids are feeding on this stuff way too much. Imagination and a little pretending at any age, is good and healthy. But keep the balance of what is real and what is fantasy!

But when the line gets crosses and is starting too .. where they try to take the fantasy into real life and get hurt ... then we have no small problems that need to be dealt with ...

it would be stupid to go to attack people with psi or whatever the best thing to do is to go to a teacher or something

Yeah its not real pretty.

As some have mentioned, we have to look at the parents in these cases. Though we also have to look at future parents. The children that come here looking for super powers or looking for people “like them” with eventually become parents. If the person never learns during that progression from child to parent things are going to become worse. We can all agree that a parents beliefs are passed on to the children, even just pressed on the children. The children then believe and this cycle starts over again but becomes more ingrained with every generation. Its been this way for quite some time.

This is what bothers me most and moves some of my comments here to young “believers” to the harsh side of things. I fear this world is becoming more belief and delusion than it is knowledge and fact. I see the cycle from child to parent, on and on, with these beliefs only becoming all the stronger. I see bad parenting. I see delusional parents. I see spoiled children. I see many things that I could discuss that have no place in this section of the forum. Though, I do not see it getting better.

Instead of children being taught the tools that will unlock the world for them. The tools to unlock the secrets of the universe. To become better and move humanity in a reliable direction. To become a great thinker, inventor or just one of those brilliant minds out there. Instead of being taught science, its tool and its methods they are taught this empty delusion and belief.

This is why Im here. This why I support my fellow “skeptics” here. This is why I support Jjs public challenges. This is why I interject into a “believer” thread and chuckle when Eric tosses in a one liner. In the stormy seas that the internet is UM here is a lighthouse. It is a guidepost and a solid landing for anything searching for answers or information. When the internet is full of belief and delusion, “facts”(really lies or opinions) about Psi and just crap, UM is a treasure trove of information and knowledge.

“Why is it your responsibility to educate/teach these kids?” This question is asked now and then on this forum. Why? Because no one else seems to be doing it. Because as much as I feel we are doomed on many levels, I do not wish to give up just yet. Because I do not feel knowledge is only for the rich and well to do. Because I really feel the powers that be want us all to waste our time with beliefs and not seek truth. Because I feel the one and only true gift that humanity has is knowledge and the ability to learn. From young to old, rich to poor, knowledge is for us all to have. Not “hidden knowledge” or “lost knowledge” or any of that crap.

Real knowledge. The kind that gets you through life. The kind that helps you solve problems. The kind that makes you independent and self sufficient. The kind of knowledge you can count an at any given time. The kind of knowledge that allows you to stand up, face the world and be prepared to deal with what its going the throw at you. The kind of knowledge that couples with imagination propels humanity forward. That allows us to move forward, create the things we need in this world and be all the better for it.

Kevin A.

great this is just too long

Amen!

That is why I did not snip this post - it needs to be re-read and not just glanced over.

totally agree with ya kevin. but ya see heres the thing about skeptism that annoys me. Some people just take it a little too far just like the believers do. They'll sit they're and desperately try to prove their point but not like they're trying to prove it to the believer, but to them selves. Then we have the dumb dumb skeptics who'll sit there and say its all a load of crap but will have no scientific evidence at all that could even slightly prove their own theory. Then theres my personal favorite, the irrational skaptics. The ones who'll sit there and taunt one after proving they're incorrect....AC!!!! lol, jk. but yeah.

Isn't fantasy sometimes better than reality?

But then 'better' is only a matter of perception. One persons better is another's worse. Ahh, the complexity of man.

Sincerely,
llynx

The problem llynx is if you read the first post --- you'll see the problem w/fantasy and reality .....

well yeah, fantasy usually is better, thing is when you lose graspe of reality because of it it causes serious problems dude.

Well, after reading those two stories! I will have to say people can be utterly ignorant.
The parents of that child should be ashamed of themselves. Those boys picking a fight
with some bullies thinking they have special powers is just down right stupid. I'm sorry
to use that word but, seriously!

It's a pity how reality has to be figured out the hard way for some people.

*sigh* theres no hope *jumps off bridge*

By these kids attempting these superpowers and bear in mind, that they were all convinced they possessed the abilites, when they failed it was a severe lesson that they learned. The one that jumped out of the window was extremely lucky he was not killed, those that were beaten up were very fortunate that their injuries will heal.

Fortunately for them all, perhaps now, they will accept that watching programmes on TV and movies that feature such "powers" are fiction and the very fact that they failed in their attempts to use them and were hurt as a result could mean that they will now all move on. Very harsh lesson to learn, but one which probably happened because they were spending 95% of their time on subjects that are sending them astray.

I am not saying that certain things are impossible, I am not saying that some things cannot be accomplished. What I am saying, however, is that some people's minds seem set that they are invincible and it must be one hell of a shock when they realise they are mortal just like everybody else.

Yes I know. I ramble.....



Thanks Jj. I just wish I could type that early in the morning and be a bit more coherent. Or at least get all my grammar right....




Like many things in life a balance is the absolute best way to go about this. Being one extreme or the other is never the best way to go about things. Balance my friend. Skeptic but enough of an open mind to think of the possibilities. Science with enough imagination to come up with some great ideas. Balance.



Fantasy is better for some. Reality for other. Its a personal opinion. Fantasies can me ok or they can be destructive. Reality can be the same.




The problem is that its not just fictional television shows or cartoons stating that these powers are real. This is the problem with the internet here. There are many people, who appear credible to the gullible or those wanting so badly to believe, who really are scamming people or just simply are presenting their beliefs as truth. We see this all to often here on UM.

There are those here stating that all these super powers exist. They present ways to train these abilities and "test" them. They post videos and other stuff. They present everything they have as if it really were real and proven. Or they add in some spiritual mumbo jumbo or some other non sense to make it palatable. Then they can take real science and twist it, contort it or flat out lie about it to make things seem real.

Even when you try and explain what is happening they still stand firm. Even when science or even logical thought can simply explain what happened they still believe otherwise.

Its the blind belief in any form, for any reason that is dangerous.

Blind skepticism makes people boring and ill tempered it seems. Blind faith kills people. History shows us both of these....

Kevin A.

It all depends what they are saying they do with these "powers" if you can call it that, of theirs.

The kids mentioned in the original posts were probably 100% convinced that what they could do was real. The proof was in the pudding when they tried to do these physical things, they got hurt.

Sometimes people try to explain but it turns out that the person explaining has absolutely no experience of their own, therefore their explanations will not come across to change that person's mind - especially if that person has indeed had genuine experiences. There is not one person on Earth who has experienced everything, therefore it stands to reason that they are not an expert on everything. What is science to one person, will be something different to another, they will believe otherwise because they know otherwise. Science and things of the spirit do not always go hand in hand.

However, when it comes to these kids, they have learned a harsh lesson and one from which, hopefully they will learn, go forward and forget about trying to throw chi balls at their foe.

Blind belief is when someone does not have a clue, whether they be scientist, logical thinking or not, they have absolutely no experience to back up what they are saying. These kids were blind in more ways than one.

The bottom line of ALL these Kinesis powers is that they are "sold" as defensive and offensive powers. They have NO spiritual significance at all - none. Why would they?

What spiritual significance does Pryokinesis have? None -- it's distructive by it's very nature - fire.
What spiritual significance does hyrdokinesis have? None ...
What spiritual significance does Telekinesis have? None ....

None of the "kinetic" powers serve any "spiritual" purpose. These do not 'serve' spirituality at all -

There very nature is being "sold" as phsyical - and ALL the TV - Movies - Comics and Books show them as weapons, nothing more and nothing less -- just weapons.

As for the "Indigo" - "Star Child" - "Cyrstal Children", again this "teaches" kids they have Psychic powers that are not real. So the kids try to 'fit' them into the reality they see, hear and live.... That's why the kid jumped out the window .. it was the 'logical' next step.

See that is the problem - what is the "logical" next step in all of this? Well to put it into 'action'.... why else 'go here'? Then they get hurt big time. Not just physically but also emotionally and pyschologically hurt ....

This is no small "lesson" Lotus, sorry --- but it's far more serious then just 'growing up' after the injuries they take on .... The emotional and psychological scars will be around for a long time in their lives.. it will not go away as quickly as the cuts, bruises and even broken bones....

It is not "sold" how many times have i read in the internet you cannot wish to learn it for hurting others or personal gain? They said clearly that you can use it only for spirtual things or it will not work.

these powers when you look at it through their uses there are no spiritual significance but people do not learn it from their uses they learn it so that they can strengthen their beliefs and faith.

Out of interest Jj whose fault do you think it was that the four boys were hurt? What on earth made them think they could do this psi ball thing, did they not try it out first and when they saw it was not possible, would that not have indicated that they should not try it in real life against the bullies? They were severely deluded and went headlong into something that if they had had an ounce of common sense it would have prevented them from making a big mistake.

Regarding the flying off the roof kid, the parents are responsible for that whole sorry saga, because I am damned sure that if one of my kids had said to me that they had dreams of flying like superman, the last thing I would have expected to see, would be them trying to, indeed, fly off the roof! In fact, if I had seen them do this I would have suspected LSD!

This is really sad. People should not lose their logical thought. A writer once said the purpose of logic is not to find the truth but to keep us from error. And another wrote that logic was the referee who blew the whistle when we were out of line.

I am one for discussion of philosophy paranormal etc. , but this just is not right. Parents should know better and teach children where fantasy begins and reality stops.

The same things happen with shows like power rangers etc. Where children take up the violence and act it out on others.
I think there are countless examples of this.

To blame it all on mystics would be ludicrous as this kind of thing happens with children all the time. They think they are superman or batman and want to fly. Or they hurt their friends thinking they are some kind of character from a story.

Please see my most on the telekineses thread where I answered one of your previous posts there.

okay listen up ppl coz im only gon asay this once, 2012 everyting is inked to it, oil, aliens, ufo's, government, masons, illuminati, petrol, wasted energy, consciousness, higher consciousness, polar shift, loads more sh** now there will be armageddon on earth, not in 2012, 2012 is just the begining, but i tell you, there will be apoint when evil will clash with good, and its up to psi ppl who matered this to defeat them, yes it will be very much like dbz, 2012 things will happpen that you wont even know, explin laters, safe

Good grief. How does your post relate to this wonderful topic from our dearly departed JJ? It makes not a bit of sense. You have been watching too much Heroes. Someone save us from ourselves. AND NOT psi kiddies.

JJ left?? Where'd he go?

He decided to leave.

That's a huge shame. JJ was a valuable member of the forums. Let us all have a moment silence for JJ.

kids jumping off the roof or other high object. it happens. the incedenses of this went up with the releas of every suprman movie.

i would say that the parents are to blame here ( when you meet an indego child you know ) perhaps that they want their child to be special, more special than other kids, thats the parents ego coming into this. if they really had an indego child, the kid would be telling them where they are messing up in life.
these "parents" just want to be special in some way or another.

the kids getting in a psi war? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
who knows where they got that idea. hahahahahhahahahahahaaha
i`m going to start crying here.
way back, when heavy metal came out ( the movie ) and blue oyster cult had the one line in their song ( you see me now the victem of a thousand psycic wars )
well this one line in this song in this damn movie dragged the freaks out of the wood work. it appers to me to be the same ball of wax.

the problem here is the lack of educating oneself, in both these cases. ignorance breeds disaster.
case 1 - parents say "here billy, you take the car to school today" how old was the kid? 9 - just a dumb idea, but esentialy the same thing. the parents have no idea.
case 2 - a good chunk of us have had to deal with bullies, WHERE WERE THE PARENTS? did someone not notice the change in the kids? was everyone that is a part of their lives so blind as to not see somthing was up, to the point that these kids had to find someway to deal with this problem no matter how far fetched it may seem?

are the kids stupid? - i dont think so, desperate maybe, but not stupid - their actions on the otherhand? well. we know where that got them.


as for there is no hard evidence of psi?

ok then the government of both the united states and of russia are sitting in a fantasy land as well. let me explain.

both the american government and the ruling powers in russia have been running psi programs since the 50`s. still doing it to this day.
millions of dollars are going into this on a yearly basis. soooooooooooooooooooooo
the world that they live in is fantasy, but you know what? these people that believe in this fantasy are running your lives and your country. ( hows that for a scarry thought )

i live n canada and am aware that my government has been involved in the recrutement program that is headed up by the CIA. just for the purpose of digging out the best of the best psycics.
so do some digging, its all there.

2012 - its not the end of the world people. as the hopi phrase it. this is the time of "earth changes" - meaning that the earth has life cycles that are far longer than our recorded history - it is one of these changes that is coming in 2012 ( depending on which calander you follow, there are about 10 out there )
all the gloom and doom that people freak out about in revelations. well there is a pile of crap that is the responsability of each of us to change.
once again back to the governments. why do you think they would maintain large underground cities that were built during the cold war? for the threat of nuclear war?
oh hell no. what they tell the population is controled ( in the same way hitler did it, through the use of the propaganda machine. man some people really should learn their history )
these places are in a constant state of upkeep and upgrading. there are about 9 in the united states alone. why?

as for the sceptics. i love sceptics. they have a way of pointing things out, and asking questions that make me think, and learn, even if they do not.
some may say that my belief is bassed on fantasy, why? its not a part of the way that they see things.

thats fine.

i am not trying to sway your beliefs. ask yourself. are you trying to sway mine? through scepticisem and argument?

most sceptics i meet have the same kind of belief in their reality that has no bassis in fact - the argument of - but thats how the world is - is just as full of holes as "i can tell by your aura that you are wearing blue socks today" at least that can be quantified, on the spot none the less. but each of us surrounds ourselvs with like minded indaviduals. reenforcing our belief.

a group of people that was standing on the corner. guy comes up and says "phone your grandma" to one of them. and walks away. later on he gets home goes through his usual routine.
a week goes by and he gets a call from his mom "your granma died lastnight". goes back and says this to the group of people that was standing on the corner with him.
"my grandma died last night" - of course you get all the "geeze i am so sorry dude" - guy who came up and said "phone your grandma" gets forgotten about - or rationalized away.

this is the way peer groups work.

buddy freaking out about 2012 - more than likely you have been doing some research, and what you have been finding is disturbing you.

might i ask that you not drop verbal hand grenades in a public forum. it opens you up to attack and being accused of being crazy.
in both revelations, the prophesies on the qoran, as well as many other sources speak of the long peace after this time of trouble.

learn what you have to, and other like minded people will come to you ( or hunt them out ) this is the way that people socalize. its nature.

Kevin A.

Would have been nice to get some links man.