I'd rather live life beleive there is a god to find out there is not instead of living my life beleiving there is no god to find out there is!

just something to think about!

doesnt stop me fron having a good time though

good plan...

randomhit10

alot of religious people say that. atheist think it's a dumb thing to say they don't want to here it. but in a way it makes sense. if you're wrong about god.....you won't care because you're dead and there is nothing. but if you're wrong about there not being a god then you have to face god when you die. but i don't think god really cares, i think god just looks for the way you lived not what you believed.

Sounds like a mix of fear and a lack of personal commitment to me.

Better then sending your inner hopes and prayer to an empty void inside you.

People who only believe for that reason are believing out of fear. Living in fear of a patriarchal desert god, who by some freak accident came to be worshiped by 1/3rd of the world is no way to live. Christians never seem to consider that if they believe in God and find out they picked the wrong one(or the wrong sect), they're in the exact same rut as us unbelievers.

You are confusing alot of diffrent dogma, and to be quite honest christianity have nothing to do with fear. I don't know where you are going with that.

Edit.
Whoops, I responded completely wrong to your post, my bad. Its early where I am, my reading comprehension is a littlle off it seems.

yeah i do think a comment like that is probably out of fear. i don't believe in god just because i don't want to be wrong if there is. also, i don't think anybody is in a rut, like i said my belief god see's the way you live life not beliefs in which we're all probabaly wrong. from christians to muslims to atheist we're all most likely wrong about something or another.

Agreed.

If God is God then God isnt gonna care whether you believe in him or not. God's infinite love ismatched with infinite patience. Whether you find god this lifetime makes no difference to God there are literally unlimited others. One second and a billion years are the same in God's eyes. No rush for eternity.

I've always had a problem with this type of thing. I just don't understand how you can DECIDE to believe something. You can ACT like you believe it, going through the ritualistic motions of church and praying (or whatever), but you can still not believe it.

Belief, to me, is something that just happens - or doesn't. It can't be forced, I think.

by Purplos: Exactly. I can't understand it either. Belief is earned! Going through the acts of believing is still a lie! How can you be punished or praised on something you cannot help to feel, no matter what you do? Thank you for expressing something I often thought I had a hard time conveying!!

i agree entierly, church isnt a building church is the people (cant remember were i heard that but it makes sence) and beleive is deffenantly something thats deep in the heart not something that u can force upon urself or others! beleive out of fear also doesnt count i dont thing!
-sam

doing anything out of fear is not very rewarding...fortunately i fear nothing...well, except my wife when she is really mad...and maybe looking over the edge of a 20 story building...and maybe...forget what i just said.

randomhit10

You're making the assumption that all Christians have to go on is what's written in a book and then a lot of wishing and hoping they are putting their trust on something/someone. This is an incorrect assumption. Christians have actual experience of God, they have a link with Him forged through the acceptance of a gift that brings forgiveness and also the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives. The faith comes in believing this BEFORE getting the proof.

You know, it actually REALLY is up to you.

I would disagree. Here is why:

If you recall the tree of knowledge of good and evil and how Adam and Eve ate of it and became like God in knowing of good and evil, then it might help you understand the difference between how we look at things and how God looks at things. According to the Bible, God is an unchanging God. So God looked at life and relationship with men one particular way before Adam and Eve ate of the tree.

We know that knowing something means relating to something. In knowing good and evil, however, we automatically recognize that there is a standard. Obviously if Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden and death had not come about yet, then that standard was met before they recognized the difference between good and evil. However, once they did eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they recognized that they were naked and were ashamed of it. This means that they recognized that they no longer met the standard of what was 'good' in God's eyes. If Adam, who besides Christ was the chief of men created by God, did not meet that standard, then how can we who are much further from knowing God personally?

So I ask, what does being a 'good' person have anything to do with it? Even Jesus said, "No one is good but One, that is, God." (Matthew 19:17) What Jesus recognized was that the very good in us is not us on our own part, but the God working good in us. It is not our good, but God's good. And thus it stands for a testimony that those of us that descended from Adam are wretched beings who are incapable of anything good of our own desire, but do good by the movement of God's Spirit within us. Since this, is the case, then I ask again, "What does being a 'good' person have anything to do with it?"

To believe is to trust, which gives us hope in that which is not yet presented before us. This hope is that what we have now can be traded in for a much more glorious state of existence. But how can we trust unless we develop a relationship?

People with good intentions constantly try to provide a solution to the problems of the godless without first letting them get to know God first. And thus we legalize our faith and call it religion. I do not want you to think that being good can get you into heaven outside of understanding our relation to God, so that you can realize that God is the One working the good in you until you have become refined into the person God wants you to be. In God's relation to you, there is an understanding only met in Christ Jesus, who stands before the Father in our behalf as our King and Representative and at the same time makes what was once inaccessible to us accessible. Thus, in Christ are we made to be perfect. Not by our own good, but the good of God that was worked perfectly to that standard of good in Christ on our behalf.

So, as a conclusion, just knowing that there is a good automatically measures out good. And we can measure all we want, but only obtain a portion of that measurement due to our human limits. Therefore, it is better to trust in a God whose goodness is unlimited and always able to obtain that measure for us in Christ Jesus. God bless

it's true i think everyone should trust in jesus or believe in at least something. but i'm trying to understand what you wrote, i had to read it a few times.....cuz i'm dumb . were you saying that nobody is treuly good so having faith in god is the only thing that saves us? you mentioned that goodness in a person comes from god...that could be true. if that's true then even atheist do good deeds and that would be god in them. don't get me wrong i don't understand atheist views and if they can't see it they can't believe it. but if they are doing good god has to be with them as well, even if they don't see it or some just don't want to see it. even jesus stopped the prostitute from being stoned to death, and isn't that how we should all try to live like jesus did? jesus accepted everybody, but not everybody accepts him. what i think should be said is can everybody accept god whenever it is they might find he's real. but if one doesn't want to accept him why would he make them? that's what it really comes down to is accept god. that's just my faith though.

Pretty much. Keep in mind that God is good. So if our faith does not produce good works, then what is our faith in? If a man claims to follow God and yet hates his brother does not show faith in God. As it is written: But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? (1 John 3:17)

who gives a crap about god. if he is real in the way catholics say, then he put us hear to enjoy life, not spend it on out knees

They think they have actual experience, they could be wrong, anyone could be wrong. The system for christianity seems to be believe first, then recieve proof. That, too me, is totally illogical. Have faith and you'll be rewarded, either you have faith, then start attributing every little good thing in your life to god, or have faith and see no proof and lose it(or pretend that you still have it). Imagine if they used that method in searches for truth which are more important for reality, imagine if a doctor believed that substance A cures disease B, and kept trying it till it works. If a patient gets better, the doctor see's it as proof that he's right.

Why is that method only good for the most trivial thing ever, belief in god, but not for anything else? No offense, but thats what it is, trivial. It's obvious that people can be good without god. If you didn't believe in god and followed Christs teachings anyway, you'd still be considered a good person, and isn't that what really matters?

I believe that christ was way ahead of his time, and is still fairly ahead of his time now. He singlehandedly dismantled the barbarism in the bible and gave birth to a religion which acts nothing like his teachings say it should. Just look around at the multimillionaire preachers, the intollerant conservatives and the violent world leaders.

I only wish there were more Quakers in the world.

I think that it is because a belief in a god cannot be measured as, for example, the effects of a particular medicine.

I know annecdotal evidence is not used to make scientific proofs, but it is often good enough for the lay person. You have ABC symptom and 100 people say, "Oh, eat a banana and you will feel better," chances are you will eat a banana. If the banana gets rid of ABC symptom, you may very well have belief that bananas work in this instance. If the banana does nothing, you will not believe it, even though 100 people said it worked for them.

Very similar to religious beliefs, I think. Person has a symptom (emotional pain, no purpose in life, curiosity even!) and they can see 100 people worshipping a god (or they are taught to do so by their family/community). They try out the god, praying, whatever, and either something happens that creates belief (they have found purpose, a big cloud descended from the sky and spoke to them, whatever), or nothing happens and they do not believe.

As much as a person can say "The banana cured my symptom!" and tell others to eat bananas, attend pro-banana sing-alongs, etc. they will not truly believe it if it did not actually affect change. I believe (ha!) that people can only TRULY believe in a god, goddess, whatever, if they have experienced something that convinced them of his/her existance.

Anything else is just lip service, and people socializing.... maybe trying desperately to belong to some great club that is supposedly sanctioned from on high.

Very well worded! I agree. You put this rather nicely.



I am doing my best! Here are some cool quaker quotes:


It were better to be of no Church, than to be bitter for any.(535) --William Penn (Allah Bless him)

A good End cannot sanctifie evil Means; nor must we ever do Evil, that Good may come of it. Some Folks think they may Scold, Rail, Hate, Rob and Kill too; so it be but for God's sake. But nothing in us unlike him, can please him. (537-539) --William Penn

Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than from the arguments of its opposers.--William Penn

The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one religion;and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another, though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.

--William Penn

I love quakerism!!!

Well said purplos. There is no substitute for experience. there are many book learned who have not experienced anything other than the lives of others which was documented in the infancy of this world, and they will judge and condemn by these Pages , as if God died after the book was written. They think their next encounter w/ God can only happen after this life, Forgetting that their eternal spirit, created by an eternal spirit , was sent here and now to experience this life, in the time we are in, not to judge others life w, who have lived before. or interpret the history of those who lived before. one cannot change The history , or experience it, by analysing it. We need to experience our own history and Judge it For what we experience here and now.

Love Omnaka

Thats cool but one problem. Deep down inside yourself regardless of what I or anyother human think, You have to aSK YOURSELF and answer to your god . Why do you have faith? do you have faith because you dont want to suffer the consequences of not having faith? is that justifiable in gods eyes? or is that weak and fearful of what might happen to you if you don't have faith? Or do you truley have faith because you choose to not worry about reality and leave it in gods hands? is that justifiable in gods eyes?so is submission the way of the richeous? or is believing in goodness and harmony? I would rather tell god I believe in what I think is good over then agreeing with god that his ways are good. Because suffering is not nessicary for me to understand what it means to enjoy. The shear beauty of the world is enough.