When it comes to dragon sightings, legends, and integration into naitive belief systems, where do you think the dragon "hot spots" are? What time periods seem to correlate to these events?

As to belief: do you think they are/were located somewhere, have been and now left (and may return), have periods of activity, or are part of the cycle of the fancy of human imagination?

Medieval Europe had a lot of dragon tales, but they were just to glorify the tales of young men. So, I believe dragons were made up, not just in Europe but way before that, to show man's dominance over other creatures.

there are dinosaur fossils on all the continents, it wouldn't be hard to believe the ferocious looking stone remains might be the source of dragons... the Chinese use 'dragon bones' in some of their medicines, the dragon bones are mostly dinosaur fossils...

I would say Midevil Europe

I personally feel not long from now, Draconic Chronicler will be here and posting a lengthy article, so I won't even bother to comment for now

LOL. yeah, wait for DC to come. He'll tell you where dragons used to hang out.

All hail to DC .. the Dragon Master of U.M

depend on what kind of dragon you talking about. european winged dragon came from mid euro. but Chinese dragon is waaayy back from beginning of time, coz chinese believe dragon are their gods .. or their ancestor..

or maybe they came from same era. only people see it diff way (good or evil)

The most significant hotspot of dragon activity would be the so-called neolothic revolution when our human ancestors all over the world believed their Gods were dragons who taught them laws, agriculture, animal husbandry and various technologies. The Chinese claim their oldest dragons were winged, and their appearance is much like both european and mesopotamian dragons.

hmm... never know that. i never saw pic of chinese dragons walking on earth like european dragon

Your observations are based more on nonsensical, modern, fairytale and "dungeons and dragons" lore rather than real Euopean theology and history. Europeans did imagine their heroes might occasionally kill a goat-sized "baby" dragon, for they had too much knowledge of human capabilities to imagine slaying anything bigger. But they were in terror that God would release the "seriously large" dragons of the heavenly host that mankind was powerless over. Virtually every church in Europe had a "last judement" scene carved in its archway that depicted a huge heavenly dragon devouring the wicked of the world.

Much like our own "millennia madness" of the year 2000, in the year 1000 many Europeans were in terror that the "final judgment" would commence and great dragons would devour a third of the world population. In fact the Pope was made a Saint because he supposedly talked the angel Gabriel into not "releasing the dragons". Open a medieval Bible and you will see illuminated letters depicting God riding on a trusty dragon steed called a Cherubim. This is before later Christian mytholgy turned them into "chubby baby angels." Most people today are wholly ignorant of the "real" medieval dragon lore, which had little to do with man's dominance, but Gods dominance with His control over monstous dragons that could be loosed on mankind. Thats why these terrifying scenes were carved on every chruch lintel. These are the real "dragon tales" you don't hear about today that were designed to terrorize the populace and keep the church in power.

The attached photo is of a very "Western" looking Chinese dragon of the Han dynasty. Note the compact body, and the wings at the shoulders. The earlier the period, the more uniform dragons appear worldwide. Possibly this was because everyone saw the the same creatures.

I think to truly appreciate the high occurence of dragons in myths and legends from around the world we need to reconsider our definition of what a dragon is. I believe a dragon is not just your standard traditional dinosaur-looking beast from Europe and China, but also includes snakes.

"The word for dragon in Germanic mythology and its descendants is worm (Old English: wyrm, Old High German: wurm, Old Norse: ormr), meaning snake or serpent. In Old English wyrm means "serpent", draca means "dragon". Finnish lohikäärme means directly "salmon-snake", but the word lohi- was originally louhi- meaning crags or rocks, a "mountain snake" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurm_(dragon)).

If we expand our idea of what a dragon is to encompass snakes or serpents, we find references to these in Meso-American (feathered serpent) and Australian (rainbow serpent) traditions. These are two that I know of, but there are more cultures where the snake is important.

The British Isles, and the mountains of central Asia seem to have more than their fair share of dragon legends. As for timing, the stories seem do peter out at the ending of the Dark Ages.

I am less familiar with the legends in the rest of the world. When did new legends begin to stop forming in Asia? Are ther spots in the Americas associated with such?

when western civ. came ?

The Piasa of Illinois seems like a "bad dragon" right out of the European middle ages, scaly body, bat wings, spade tail, lives in a cave and eats people. According to the missionaries, the natives absolutely refused to enter its territory. It was apparenlty intelligent too, working as a mercenary in intertribal warfare, snatching up the chief of the opposing tribe, so the tribe it worked for would win.

dragon sightings in Europe persisted into the 1700s at least, and "sea dragons" into the 1900s, even sinking U Boats..

I have no knowledge on dragon lore and history, but my guess would be that also a large percentage of them may have lived in South America, Central America, and definitely southern Mexico. And for two reasons
1. Those areas of the world are very high in paleontology discoveries and "dinosaur" bones.
2. And the Aztecs and Mayan gods were almost ALL depicted in carvings and stone art as very dragon looking, one example would be Quetzalcoatl which had feathers, scales, and looked basically like a flying serpent/dragon (spelling?) (Scientists even named a a flying reptile of the dinosaur era "Quetzalcoatlus" and it is a pterosaur with one of the biggest wingspans knowns)

EDIT: also the Aztecs believed that all their gods came from the sky: and dragons fly, and like DC says, "god" had the power to unleash dragons from the heavens to do his will...this can be interpreted as such.

Well there are no hot spots for sightings. as there isn't and never was a truely living dragon.

End of story. I'm not argueing this any further with anyone.

^I was sondering why the forum didn't automatically the "A" word on your post, another word for "butt". Anyway, I never really know if there was any dragon sightings im just one place at a consecutive times. I guess all over the world?

Dragons Flying in Himalayas Sky


A photo of two peculiar dragon-shaped objects taken from a plane flying over Tibet’s Himalayas piqued many users’ interest when displayed on a Chinese website. The photographer is an amateur.

On June 22, 2004, the photographer went to Tibet’s Amdo region to attend the Qinghai-to-Xizang Railroad laying ceremony, and then took a plane from Lhasa to fly back inland. When flying over the Himalaya’s, he accidentally caught these two "dragons" in a picture that he took. He called these two objects "the Tibet dragons."

Looking at the photo, these two objects appear to have the characteristics of crawling creatures: The bodies seem to be covered by scales, the backs have spine-like protuberances, and also they have gradually thinning rear ends. Although the photo caught only a portion of the entire scene, it was sufficient create the appearance of two gigantic dragons flying in the clouds.

This photo, shown on some websites such as post.baidu.com and other forums, aroused the website visitors’ curiosity. One person commented, “No wonder that China is the homeland of the dragon! Nature is truly mysterious and powerful, it can always produce spectacular sights beyond people's expectations.”

“Is it really true? Is it possible there is an ancient civilization that we don’t know about is preserved in places that are sparsely populated?”

“It really looks like the dragons in fables, and I really hope it is.”

Certainly, most website visitors hoped that someone could confirm the authenticity of the dragons in the photo.

In Chinese fairy tales, the dragon is a kind of rare heavenly creature. Fables say that it can conceal or reveal itself. It ascends to heaven in the spring breeze and dives and hides in deep water in the autumn wind. It can promote clouds and bring about rain. It also became the symbol of imperial authority later on; all emperors of previous dynasties self-designated as dragons, utensils were also decorated with dragons.

Culturally, the dragon is the Chinese ancestors' totem. Nearly all races in China had fables and stories with dragons as the main subject, such as dragon boat races, the dragon lantern dance to celebrate holidays, sacrificial offerings to the dragons to implore timely wind and rain for good crops.

Whether this kind of creature really exists is still an unsolved riddle. In the previous dynasties in China, there had been many documents recording eyewitness accounts of magical dragons. The most amazing events are the various "falling dragons," dragons that suddenly fell to the ground under peculiar circumstances, and were witnessed by many. A relatively recent tale occurred in the puppet Manchuria regime in August, 1944. A black dragon fell to the ground at the Chen Family’s Weizi Village, about 9.4 miles northwest of Zhaoyuan County, on the south shore of the Mudan River (the old name of a section of Songhua River) in Heilongjiang province. The black dragon was on the verge of death. The eyewitness said that this creature had a horn on its head, scales covering its body, and had a strong fishy smell that attracted numerous flies.

The records from previous dynasties also mentioned the connection between the emergence of these kinds of mysterious creatures, “dragons,” and the transition of dynasties on earth. The appearance of Tibet’s magical dragon invites our curiosity and imagination.

Story source:http://www.ufodigest.com/dragon.html for picture

If there really are such creatures as dragons, I hope there are luckdragons too. Falkor <3

DC, do you have a link about the Uboat sinking? I'm interested to read it. My mind is immediately asking how anyone knows what sunk a Uboat since there'd be no survivors..So I'm interested to see the account's provenance.



To be honest that just looks like the usual trails you see behind a plane in the sky. Which would explain why it was only noticed 'after'.

Of course you won't "argue this any further". -Edit- ANYPLACE where humans believed in dragon gods, had dragon-fighting heroes, saw sea serpents, lake monsters, etc. are places where there have been "sighting", sometimes being recorded that hundreds of people saw the same creatures. Technically when explorers first brought back stories of the "komodo dragons" these WERE actual sightings of dragon like creatures, so you are wrong. Any of the MANY large reptilian cryptids reported all over the world could be what our ancestors considered dragons. And since they are seem and reported, these consititue "dragon sightings."

Correct, most of the time dragons sink U Boats there are no surrvivors, but this time there were sailors on deck with guns that drove the creatures off. and here are some more tales besides. Curious tht they only seem to attack German submarines, but it may have something "Biblical" in the motivation.

http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/tales.htm

Toward the end of World War I the German submarine UB-85 was caught on the surface, during the day, and sunk by a British patrol boat. The crew abandoned the sub and was picked up by the British. The U-boat commander, Captain Krech was questioned about why he had been cruising on the surface and he told this tale:

The sub had been recharging batteries at night on the surface when without any kind of warning a "strange beast" began to climb aboard from the sea. "This beast had large eyes, set in a horny sort of skull. It had a small head, but with teeth that could be seen glistening in the moonlight." The animal was so large that it forced the U-boat to list greatly to starboard. The captain feared an open hatch would drop below the waterline, flooding the sub and sinking it.

"Every man on watch began firing a sidearm at the beast," Krech continued. The animal had hold of the forward gun mount and would not let go.

The battle continued until the animal dropped back into the sea. In the struggle, though, the forward deck plating had been damaged and the sub could no longer submerge. "That is why you were able to catch us on the surface," the Captain concluded.


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Off the coast of Ireland on July 30th, 1915, the German submarine U-28 torpedoed the British ship Iberian. It went down rapidly, stern first. As the crew of the U-28 watched there was a large explosion that sent water and wreckage a hundred feet into the air. A "gigantic sea animal" was thrown to the surface and remained visible for about fifteen seconds before it sank. It was shaped like a sixty foot long crocodile with webbed feet.





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Excerpt from the log of the ship General Coole, around 1780:

"A very large snake passed the ship. It was 3 or 4 feet in circumference. The back was of light color and the belly yellow." - S.H. Saxby, Master Mariner, Bouchurch, Isle of Wright.





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In 1808 an Australian three-masted bark was attacked by a sea monster that, "had climbed across bow and bitten or chewed, one of the hands." It's eyes were the size of a "warrior's shield." The attack continued until the captain went below and returned with guns. He fired them into the animal's eyes and the monster returned to the ocean.





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On December 7th, 1905 at about 10:15 am the oceanographic research yacht, Valhalla, was cruising off the coast of Florida and a "large fin, or frill, sticking out of the water," was spotted. The frill was six feet in length and projected almost two feet out of the water. "A great neck rose out of the water in front of the frill," noted Mr. Meade-Waldo, a scientist on board. The neck appeared to be about the thickness of a man's body. The creature moved its head and neck from side to side in a peculiar manner.





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Three days after the Valhalla incident the Happy Warrior, a merchant sailing ship, reported a "sea snake of great magnitude appeared off our port bow. Was several lengths of our ship. Had long neck. Sounded after few minutes. Estimated speed six knots." The Happy Warrior was cruising only 80 miles from where the Valhalla sighted it's creature.





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A sea serpent, 45 feet long and 15 inches in diameter, was reported off the coast of Maine by Captain George Little in 1780:

"I was lying in Round Pond, in Broad Bay, in a public armed ship. At sunrise, I discovered a large serpent, or sea monster, coming down the bay. It was on the surface of the water. The cutter was manned and armed. I went myself in the boat. We proceeded after the serpent. When within a hundred feet, the mariners were ordered to fire on him. Before they could make ready, the serpent dove."





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hi,
the tibet dragon pics are really of glaciers photographed from a plane...there were a set taken in others you can see where they converge...etc, if i come across them again ill post them.

Thanks for the link. I wonder if the Uboat was ever recovered and examined, from the sounds of it there was alot of damage whatever happened (skeptic says bad driving and a story to save face, lol). The description is a little confusing, it only tells us about the head and not the body. I was reminded of a mososaur by the initial description but a mososaur wouldn't have the capacity to 'climb on board' or hold on to the gun turret. A squid would make sense but doesnt fit the description especially. Are there any more in depth accounts of this? Did they ever draw composites?



Ahh. I was thinking given all the various cloud formations we see that what I suggested would make sense. I never even considered it was 'land' so to speak. I'd be interested to see the rest if you ever find them.

EDIT - Found this:


Yet another tale of a horrific encounter with one of ocean's many atrocities comes to us from a U-boat Commander and his crew in the midst of the first World War. Much like the event reported by U-28 in the North Atlantic a mere 3 years prior, the sailors aboard the UB-85 were in for an encounter which they would never forget.

The account begins on April 30, 1918, in the waning days of World War I, when the crew of the British patrol boat, the Coreopsis - while sailing off the Belfast Lough - were astounded to find a German submarine (the UB-85) floating lifelessly on the surface of the North Atlantic. The members of Her Majesty's navy were both perplexed and disconcerted by the discovery as they were not in the habit of encountering non-aggressive U-boats on the open seas, much less during the middle of the day!

With almost no provocation, the entire crew of the UB-85 abandoned ship. Once aboard the British vessel, the U-boat's commander, Captain Gunther Krech, was immediately interrogated. One of the first questions asked by the British officers regarded his decision to remain on the surface even when their obviously English vessel came within his UB-85's line of sight. Captain Krech's response was not one that his interrogators were prepared for.

According to Krech, his submarine had surfaced during the previous night in order to recharge its batteries. Krech was on deck with some men and a few of his officers, when there was an abrupt surge off the starboard bow. Suddenly, what the captain referred to as a "strange Beast" climbed out of the night blackened ocean and onto the side of his ship. Krech described the creature to his captors as such:

"This beast had large eyes, set in a horny sort of skull. It had a small head, but with teeth that could be seen glistening in the moonlight. Every man on watch began firing a sidearm at the beast, but the animal had hold of the forward gun mount and refused to let go."

Krech continued his story, stating that proportions of this creature were so immense that it forced the U-boat to list greatly to the starboard side. The captain, fearing that the open hatch would drop below the waterline (which would flood the sub and eventually sink it), ordered his men to continue their attack on this beast. The battle raged until the animal finally released the submarine and slipped back into its watery domain.

The crew of the UB-85, shaken, but glad to be alive, noted that during the struggle the forward deck plating had been damaged and the U-boat could no longer submerge. "That is why you were able to catch us on the surface," the Captain concluded. Krech and his crew's entire account was chronicled by members of the British Navy, only hours after the events took place. The official record of the event reads as follows in official reports:

"UB-85 Krech, Kplt Gunther April 30 off Belfast Lough Gunfire Sunk by the drifter COREOPSIS. Crew taken off before boat sank."

Source

Shame it was sunk..

Interesting sea stories, Drac. The creatures involved either left as firearms were produces, or, in the case of the U-Boat, attacked the deck-gun first. Whatever these sightings were, they were smarter than mere animals, so maybe they were dragons. As for going after the Nazi boats, the nazis managed to draw the ire of all of humanity, they certainly could incite other species.

The military report, and the report from the research vessel, are more solid than the usual sailor's yarns.

Dragon-like, but not dragons(in the mythical sense with which you attempt to lead us to believe). So since you concede that these are sources of stories, what makes any other story any better?


Exactly! You finally get it. Because you finally admit that what were once considered dragons by those who saw them were actually not dragons(in the mythical sense), but, due to misunderstandings and lack of knowledge, they were still "dragon sightings." But NOT dragons. They were likely just seeing big reptiles, or bones, or heck they could have even seen some large marine reptiles(more plausible than dragons, BTW). But they were still not dragons(in the mythical, flying, visibility, etc.).

These were WWI U-boats, and the Nazis hadn't risen to power, yet. An easy slip, to be sure.

But what is really a "nazi" but an "uninhibited. vicious, bloodthirsty German barbarian"? Do you remember the Luisitania? I bet the Belgian priests who were hung and nuns raped as the Germans invaded in 1914, did not discern any change in politics than the ones than the "Huns" that invaded again in 1939. Even the German mercenaries who fought for the British in the American revolution already had a reputation for barbaric behavior before the first shot was fired.

Perhaps dragons "sunk" many more German submarines than we know about, but now credited to allied ships or unknown causes.

It is interesting that the civilized countries of Ancient Western Asia and Europe regarded dragons as gods or servants to the gods, and did not terrorize the land, and we see depictions of beautiful maidens riding on thier backs, whereas dragons in legends of the Nordic Barbarians are agressive monsters.
It is interesting that the anti-dragon themes of the Church really did not come about until the Germanic "Vandals" and similar tribes controlled the chruch and made themselves Popes. Prior to this, the dragons were heavenly guardians, not monsters to be slain by saints. Even the Revelation dragon was stolen from an Aryan myth.

how would some men with 'guns' be able to drive off a 'dragon'? when you believe dragons are un-slayable gods/angels?... even though most all dragon myths and stories in western cultures, and many middle eastern cultures have the dragon being killed... are you going to say 'those' myths and stories are just lies, again?

BTW, if dragons were helping in the fight against the Germans, why didn't they attack ship convoys, or fly up into the air and knock airplanes from the sky? maybe dragons can only travel at 10 to 15 knots...

Firearms made the medieval knight obsolete, because steel plate could deflect arrows, spears and swords, but could not deflect bullets. The same may be true of dragon scales because we see a drastic reduction of accounts of dragons raiding farms, etc. with the invention of gunpowder weapons. I doubt small arms of even the German U boat crew could kill a dragon, but they apparently do not like getting shot at.

But to think humans with conventional swords, spears and arrows could kill a dragon is utterly ridiculous. This is why writers must invent "magical vulnerable spots" and similar nonsense. When such dragon slaying scenes are created in books and films they come off as idiotic, becasue the notion is so absurd. An adult man does not have the strength to chop of a horses head in a stroke, yet we see some Bimbo cutting the head off of a 100 foot long reptile in Hollywood like it was made of butter. Only morons could write such trash, and only other morons could find it believable.

Who could imagine a person with a machete killing an adult T-Rex? Of course you can't, which is why such nonsense was not depicted in the Jurassic Park films, since these were intended to be seen by adults, and real scientists were technical advisors. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to kill a flying T Rex with human-like intelligence.

The fact that not a single piece of dragon remains preserved in the archaeological record suggests no human has ever killed one. And indeed, only ab ignorant person could believe it. Even the people of the middle ages did not think even a Saint could kill a large dragpm/ look at the old paintings. The dragon is usuall no bigger than a goat. But even this would have been a Saintly feat in their eyes. In this respect people of today, with no knowledge of medieval weapons, or the abilities of wild animal, are far stupider. Now we have books films and video games depicting humans killing large dragons that even the dumbest medieval peasant woud laugh at due to the sheer idiocy of it.

Our ancestors thought the dragons were Gods because they were mighty, unkillable beasts, that seemed to controll the rain and were extremely wise. But they still believed they were flesh and blood creatures becasue they fed them. And as far as the earliest dragon slaying legends, these are really battles between dragons. Originally Marduk was a dragon, the son of Enki, the "Great Dragon of Edidu". When the dragons actually left these cultures, the dragon gods became "humanized". We see the same with the Judao-Christian Yahweh. Few believers today realize he was once the Dragon of Eden, Enki.

oh the irony!

DC, with all due respect, for I find your postings often fascinating, but how the heck would these creatures have the inborn knowledge to come down upon the "right" side, in a conflict.

Again, I really respect your profound knowledge and dedication to the subject you've devoted yourself to, but how would these fantastic, darn nearly unbelievable creatures choose to "align" themselves within a human war/battle? I don't mean to impugn you, nor your beliefs, but I find this entirely, utterly fantastic. TIA.

The last bit.

''The fact that not a single piece of dragon remains preserved in the archaeological record suggests no human has ever killed one.''

Really, is that what it suggests to you!!!

^ LOL!

What else could it suggest? For after all, historical accounts have been describing dragons for thousands of years, and the greatest men of these times acnowledged they were real, and 200 years ago, hundreds, even thousands of people in New England saw one that was called a Sea Serpent. They appear in Chinese histories, "giving dignitaries rides" , helping move a boat, etc. with the same seriousness as any other event, and there were "dragon tenders" on the Imperial payrolls. This culture was far more advanced than any other at these times, but of course, everyone else acknowledged their existence too -- "fathers of science" like Pliny the Elder, also a Roman admiral in a culture practically as sophisticated as our own.

gotta throw in my 5 cents in here, so to speak...

I really find it unbelievible that dragons (of anykind, be it heavenly creatures or not) would interfere in the first world war AGAINST the germans. The WWI were more or less inevitable (much due to the fact that EVERYONE back in those days thought it to be inevitable) and to blame it all on the germans are plain stupid (which anyone with historical knowledge knows).

The WWI happend because the tension hade been build up the last 30-50 years between different countries. The whole of europe and the imperial ideology is more or less to blame, you can't really single out one nation in this conflict. Thus, dragons would not be able to side with the "good" side since there never were one to start with.

I could have understood that dragons "allied" them with the allied during WWII, but that would also seem kinda hypocrisys since it was the harsh terms of the allied fråm WWI that brought on the WWII... so either way u look at it dragons siding with aside during war are stupid...

The whole premise of the "intelligent dragons" rests on the acceptance of an intelligence behind the universe, that may have used modified "assistants" to insure the survival and enlightenment of a naturally intelligent creature such as man. And a large mesozoic reptile might fit thisd bill. The ancient legends around the world speak of these dragons teaching them laws, agriculture, domestication, technologies. I am not making this up, it is a matter of the historical record, and many brilliant scientists belive that the order of the universe has some kind of "intelligence" behind it. These studies are simply trying to make sense out of what ourown ancestors all over the sorld have said. As for alignment, we do see this too. As a general rule, Civilized societies honored "dragons" and regarded them as their gods, whereas barbaric societies feared them, and created absurd ballads of mighty heroes slaying the beasts that they sung as the put theireselves into drunken stupors (on those days when they were not slaughtering their neighbors). Ironically this is the culture of the ancestors of most of the posters here, so it hardly surprises me there is disagreement. And no other culture has created greater atrocity -- ( now that the dragons are no longer allowed to "cull" their numbers and keep them cowed in their dung and twig hovels in dank forests.

this is a ridiculous statement... and your picking and choosing which myths and stories have credibility is laughable... IMO

It is not ridiculous at all. Would you lie to be shot by a bb gun, even if you knew it wouldn't kill you? Or a Taser? You may not realize this, but animals feel pain too.

Legends are just that legends. Stories no different than Superman today. Myths & fantasy nothing more.

Well, Vidgange, I agree with you that the Germans weren't worse than any of the other belligerents during WW I. But, hey, mythical beings play favorites all the time in the legends.

In WWII the Japanese, sensing impending defeat, called upon the Kami Kaze (the "devine wind") that had destroyed the massive Mongul naval invasion force before. A monstrous storm destroyed the Mongol fleet, the largest ever assembled at the time. They believed that this powerful guardian spirit would protect them from the "barbarians" again.

Similarly, the British have named the freak storm that scattered the Spanish Armada the "Protestant Wind".

LOL, so now dragons are just 'animals', what happened to them being gods/angels? if dragons were just animals they clearly could be killed...

I never said they were literal gods that could create things. The were believed to be Gods by our ancestors for their size, and abiliiies, none of which are necessarily supernatural. Spewing fire may be no more astounding than an electric ell or bombardier beetle. Similarly, bringing rain may have a scientific basis as well. But only a fool could believe puny humans could kill such creatures. I doubt humans could have killed a T-Rex before the 19th century, and dragons would be far more dangerous due to their greater intelligence and flyinb ability.

I am merely postulating why it only seems like dragons attack German submarines. Maybe they are outraged by the ridiulous German dragonslayer myths and now that they have largely returned to the sea this would be a method of revenge. Or maybe they missed the acrid, gamey taste of ancient German warriors, and germans on a submarine for months at a time, would be just as acrid and gamey as any ancient unwashed German Barbarian.

Or maybe in their Biblical capacity were wreaking heavenly vengeance on the "Huns" who first used poison gas, bombed civilian cities, and sunk ocean liners full of women and children. You know, all of those things that finally outraged America enough to join the crusade.

If you could please give more sources, it would be most appreciated. Even I know of people who love to tamper with wiki sites...
Anyway, a few language sites and you'll be set.
Better safe than sorry!

You know, DC was only trying to see it from every perspective, and everyone makes mistakes. Not saying there was one, though. The point was that you (an intelligent being?) and a dog (not so bright as a human) will both try everything in there power to not get shot at. A dragon would be no different. Intelligence is not a factor.
Unless there is none at all.

Pax has just been reading too many Conan comics, just watched the new Beowulf cartoon plays too much Dungeons and Dragons, and now actually thinks a piddling human with a sword could somehow kill a 60 foot long, scale plated, intelligent, flying carnosaur.

I thought you always spouted they were supernatural. Thats why there was never any remains of them. You are waffeling a bit.