I don't really know, is what we all perceive to be UFOs alien life or are they angels?
I mean people use to pray to the beings from the sky. I though this would be a good chance to see what other believe.. so please replay and let me hear your input.

Get me a good picture of an angel and I'll take a look at the question.

uhh, it's just hard to guage the position you're coming from, having seen an earlier post of yours about the 'perils of witchcraft' ..a simple google search could have supplied the info you need to start this part of the journey..

this is a very hard topic to pin down.. because as far as i see it, there is no definitive proof one way or the other yet.. i am of the opinion that the bible is not the work of God, but that's just an opinion..

umm.. it's pretty much about two schools of thought on the same subject..

you've probably seen this Ezekial thing (the wheel within a wheel etc) a lot of people will say this is the bible version of a UFO encounter.. and Jesus' birth can be likened to 'alien impregnation' ..etc etc etc (making all the 'miracles' less than what they are intended to be, and thus 'debunking' the bible) so these people try to make the 'spiritual' become 'physical' ..for whatever reason.. maybe it fits in nicely with their hybrid belief system? maybe they sell books? maybe they have a beef with the universe? whatever.. the religious offenders are the ones who purport that Satan drives a UFO, because the book (if they understood it) does not imply that at all.. but because it says things like he is the prince of the AIR and the ruler of this world and roves up and down the earth like a hungry lion, all sorts of comparisons can be drawn, and to me, the situation is nothing more than some 'parent authority figure' trying to scare the 'children' into behaving..

then there is the inverse/opposite of the very same coin.. these people try to make the 'physical' into 'spiritual' ~~ that UFO's (a supposed technological device ie: artificial construct) suddenly becomes a 'spiritual being operating in this dimension' ..long story short, they seek to inspire rebellion from the concensus mainstream propaganda dogma of church/state control (everything is connected!) - they think they are 'unlocking shackles' but since there is no real PROOF one way or the other.. who do we believe? ..it is even possible they have been fed deliberate disinformation..

if i was to further elaborate on this, i reckon that would come close to attempted brainwashing you into thinking what i think?
but it's correct to say to a man > seek and ye will find, knock and it will be opened

good answer... but my position on this site is that i don't have a position i just like idea's and i hat discrimination. info and understanding is just my thing

i take it those 3 replies (lag) indicate you're serious about the subject?

lag......

yeh it happens when you click "SEND" and nothing happens.. most people get frustrated they just don't understand how it all works.. so they click "SEND" again.. (work damn you!) ..still nothing... click click click click.. (grr! work!) ..by this time the lag has subsided and all those clicks they did pile up.. it's always good to blame that on lag

and it's a nice little metaphor for life an' sh*t

Removed duplicate posts

Yes you're right, once we believed in angels, then we believed in whichcraft, now we believe in aliens, it's all the same thing really. Humans always need to believe in something 'other' it seems.

Well, the difference is that Aliens are most likely out there, that much most people pretty much agree with. So if they are out there, then there is always a chance that they have come here, or will come here.

Hello Versidus, interesting topic.

Nice answer Unit!



Is it the need to believe in something or the attempt to explain a phenomena using the language of the time the explanation comes from?

Regards,
Mabon.

seems to have elements of both? here is my 2 cents..

say a caveman see's the delorian (back to the future movie fame) the caveman has never seen a car, has no idea what it is etc.. with all the flashing lights and effects..

the caveman has no NEED to believe in a car, or a delorian, or time-travel.. all he NEEDS to do is explain this unknown thing he's seen..

..so he goes back to the cave, and in the best way possible describes what he saw - "there is an angry rock outside, it came from nowhere, and there is a man inside with wild crazy hair"

there is a difference between imagination and reason..
(need to believe) = imagination? romantic thinking?
(attempt to explain) = reason? logical thinking?

when you encounter a new paradigm, which road do you take? is it something you need to believe in? or something you seek to explain?
how does one "BELIEVE" in something, untill it has been explained? does one NEED to BELIVE in something when it has NOT been explained?
(this always amuses me when issues of christian 'faith' arise)

belief seems to come AFTER explanation..? people only (try to) believ in things once the thing has been explained to them?

it gets complicated when you take into account the human is like a radio, picking up on all sorts of things.. some of them not seen.. how to explain them? why the need to believe in them?

Heh, this is my cup of tea. One of my favorite topics to discuss and I've discussed it a billion times.


Theres many different beliefs and religions out there and each one strongly believes in certain guidelines. These personal guidelines make you see what you want to see and percieve. Like stated earlier, first it was angels, then witches, then aliens.

Back in the biblical times, there were NEVER reports of little green men flying robot machines around. There were angels who came down from the heavens and spoke to people and rode flying chariots. Then, in the medieval times, these same lights people would see in the sky were interpreted as "fairy lights", people thought "oh it must be just the fairies dancing about", then in america's colonial times, these same lights turned into the lanterns hanging underneath witch brooms as they flew throught the skies looking for people to spook, now, we see advanced extraterrestrial UFOs with 4 foot tall beings with large eyes that seem to have otherwordly powers and strength. The nighttime bedroom visitations of aliens of today - are the succubus encounters of the renaissance times.

The thing is, throughout the ages, pretty much EVERY single major civilization has a creation theory. They all do. And pretty much ALL of them describe that their gods came from the sky. This can be interpreted in many ways, one interesting idea that Draconic Chronicler has is that they are all dragons supported by evidence of dragon sculptures and , some say these are UFOs that have altered the course of humanity, others swear its holy God and his angels, while others don't know what to believe such as myself. BUT, they are ALLLLL described as coming from the "sky." Thats interesting isn't it.

Again, throughout all of human times, we have been seeing astonishing things, creatures, apparitions, ghosts, etc, but its obvious that all these things appear only to people who are willing to believe whatever they saw. So what REALLY are these things we're seeing? Its clear that if a strict catholic person sees an "apparition" in the middle of the night, they will know its a spirit or angel. And its also clear that if a UFO enthusiast saw this same "apparition" they would believe and see it as a "Grey" and nothing more. Our minds are powerful things and will make us see what we interpret as such, the one thing that cannot be explained is what these things really are in their real form which has not been altered by our beliefs. (I apologize to those who have seen me post writings similar to this, but there are people who have not understood or read it)

Unit I really like the way that you look at things!

I plead Richard Bach, it's not the belief in the thing/event it's when it get a name is when trouble may arise. Say for sake of argument that the caveman decides to take it one step further he decides to call the rock, Vroom and the person Far-traveler, so far there seems to be 'no harm no foul'. The names are descriptive and coincide with his encounter quite well and as he retells his experience again and again.
Time passes and sadly our caveman dies but the story of Far-traveler and Vroom continue in his community. Since there are very few alive now who remembers the event it may begin to take on significance and the story grow beyond the original event as a new story teller takes up the tale. Some of the old ones who were there when the caveman had his experience (for what ever reason) may say 'no that's not how he said it happened' and change it in a new direction or keep it the same as the original story. But the belief in the event has changed hands, it acquires significance beyond the original encounter, some believe in Far-traveler and Vroom and others don't, until the question of belief isn't even about the original event but something else entirely then the argument becomes about ideas/ideals.

Regards,
Mabon.

(in case any mod type shows up) ..is this off-topic? ..please allow for the topic to encompass this (if possible)

Indrid
this dragon stuff seems to be a key issue.. as you and DC say, they are indeed in almost every culture, they are more or less the same in that they describe them as highly intelligent and crucial to the development of the culture, and they are usually always ending up interbreeding with locals and starting a dynasty from that.. i find all of that to be difficult to entirely dismiss? -- it does seem 'fantastical' but everyone (destracters, skeptics) seems to be overlooking the 'fantastical' nature of life itself?!

the interview with credo mutwa (an african zulu shaman) is ..well interesting to say the least, Crystal Sage probably posted this link elsewhere but here it is again and i urge any newcomers to check out the perspective from this mans point of view.. it seems to be a wealth of information, and is full of 'fantastical' info http://www.sabon.org/credo/index2.html

seeing what others have to say helps a lot.. and i found it invigorating that the dragon phenomena could be confirmed by chinese, south american, middle east and european cultures. when independant witnesses say the same thing, it is very compelling.. credo mutwa's story is very touching..

something that troubles me is the constant negative connotations made to dragons and 'reptillian' alien overlords.. to me, it is quite apparent that they are one and the same.. how do dragons that start civilizations only to end up clandestinely ruling them end up being any good for humans? ..but then it makes sense (from their perspective) for arguments sake ..if i was stuck on a planet full of republicans (just kidding, let's say rabbits) i suppose i would get frustrated and just exploit them also..?


i would like to think this is not the case.. although there is a strange part in Revelation where the city of God 'comes down' and lands on earth (i think near israel?) the passage even goes on to give the dimensions (size) of the thing.. i would be really nonplussed if i saw God travelling in a space-ship..


too damn right it is


you mention "astonishing things, creatures, apparitions, ghosts, etc" for this.. i agree with you to an extent..
literally hundreds of thousands of mexicans were treated to a display (that one should be easy enough to locate with a google search, try keywords mexico city ufo)
there are also people who do not follow the paranormal scsne reporting 'spooky' goings on at houses etc..
..it seems we do not need to believe to see?


Mabon
thanks for resonating


heh.. well said.. when we try to explain the unexplained.. sometimes we forget;
forgetful man seeing apparition: "i don't know what this thing is ..but oh yeh.. i've been going to church these last few years and it *sounds like* the things pastor bob is telling me about" (the man sees the apparition, cannot trust/process with his eyes, then moves on to what pastor bob told him) not to underestimate your intelligence there, but just incase some of these 15 year old know-it-alls happen to reach this far..

thanks for expanding on the caveman analagy.. i kinda giggled my ass off at 'sadly our caveman dies' it is always nice to have the thing not fall on a deaf ear the oral tradition you describe exactly does flaw the way you describe.. painting stuff on cave walls suddenly takes on a whole new meaning..
there is a secret tradition of initiates and masters, who [try to] pass along information in a more correct way..


yeh the bible, pharisees and zealots comes to mind


excellent point.. and in todays world i think more people should ask themselves.. just what is 'Vroom' and who was 'Far-Traveller' ?

a show on exorcisms is on ABC, i'm going to see how it goes..

Don't forget the universal dragon gods that supposedly brought humans knowledge of agriculture, domestication, laws and technology. In fact these have come full circle, and according to Stichin and others, were really aliens from outer space, and the dragons were rocket ships.

agrees....

I'm not really sure what to think. I don't think the word of God says so but it does seem to fit. Some time back I saw this news channel (California, I think) cover a story on this guy that claimed that he can bring about "UFOs" through the power of prayer. Skeptical, I clicked on the link which started off with the guy talking about his unusual experiences. He began to pray and sure enough right on camera a UFO appeared, or thats how I remember it at least. Amazing really.

Prophet Yahwah is what he calls himself....not sure whether to believe it after visiting his website, which you have to pay to be a member. From the little that i read off google searches he claims a ufo was suppose to land in November....but here is the video anyways.


UFO summoning

Arrrgh! I'm still doing my homework! http://www.sabon.org/credo/index2.html this is a good read and I'm still processing it. I also want to check out from other sources some of the translations of the stories.

~ Unit
Thank you! I loved the cave man story and thought it would be good just to run with it.
I really agree with the bold section and wonder that very question all the time!
I'll get back in here this is too good of a topic to loose sight of . After I'm finished with my homework. LOL!


Regards,
Mabon.

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Ok I would like to say that we aren't the only ones that exist. I believe we all coexist with beings from other dimensions, it's just that we can't see them when we want to, only on unwanted occasions. I would say there are two types of angels, angels of God and the fallen ones. now the greys I believe are the host of heaven mentioned in the bible in the old testament. It said that many worshipped the host of heaven, meaning the host of the sky/ outerspace. so I believe aliens were active with us since the beginning. aliens are even mentioned in ezekial. but no aliens are not angels of God. I have no clue. nevermind.

yes there is a link between aliens and angels, they come from the skies, advance technologies, are more spiritual than physical, talk telepathically, both say they come from a higher source....yes a LINK

Witchcraft, Aliens, the mind, spirituality, Psychics, Mystics, and the paranormal are all connected to Angels and God.

religion itself maybe 'alien' based. the fact that we have more evidence of craft in our skies that is not ours would have been god like to man early on.

sorta kinda.
the 'angels' and what not are apparently aliens and ufo sightings way back when (like ive said before)

Wow! Thanks 'Agent. Mulder',

I find it interesting how people can even come here and "correct" other people's beliefs with "knowledge" that they themselves can not guarentee.

no lol i thought you were meaning like, because we have god and angels, NOW people believe in ufos and aliens.
i was just saying its almost opposite.
i realize that post looks r******ed now

, I believe it's all connected, if one were to look at everything ever wrote on the subject from ancient to new, one would find a bigger picture, it seems all these subjects lead to another, which leads us to the book of life....( the book of life does exist on the physical plane....) But what do I know, I'm just a writer? .....