I think he mentioned that there was a type of possession.. a Walk-in... Avatar..

http://www.thenewcall.org/ri_starseeds_walkins.htm

http://www.cosmicharmony.com/

Ahhh......but we are...


Is it...........under the Arctic ice?


(give us another clue... )

Translations, Hmm, is it .......under the UN building in NYC?

Seriously, this is less than frivolous. It's nearly stupid. And I'm shamelessly post-whoring, here! Why else would a fairly serious guy be found dead in this thread? It's silly.

Oh man, we have been thru this so many times. Just because you dont have the evidence to which would be sufficient for your closed narrow mind, does not mean that ancient civilisation and lost continents did not exist. I have mentioned before, there are scriptures old and ancient some are the odlest around, and form the basis of hinduism, like the Veda's, and hinduism is the oldest religion in the world is it not. Their scriptures have spiritual, scientific, and historical data. Some might say abit like the bible, even if your not christian, it still can be used as a pretty good and accurate historical reference.

I suggest that you read some of the vedas, and you will be shocked, out how clearly and difinitively, it speaks of atlantis, warfare, infact Nuclear warfare, technology etc. Human history is not short as poeple make it out to be, and the reason they think its short is, due to some far fetched theory of evolution, which suggests modern man has been around for about 40k yrs. well thats bull, evolution theory is bull, and man has been around for millions of years, even wen artifacts are found which predate our modern conception of mans history we disregard, because it does not fit the evolution model and agenda.

Well there's your first major international news headline - evidence of a pre-Sumerian civilisation in Mesoamerica History will be changed forever.

You do have evidence that the Maya civilisation dates to 3,500BC I take it?

Can I just ask why everyone is having a go at Raptor.

He's just asked a question about how to get his research published and everyone seems to be berating him for answers and proof.

He has clearly stated in his posts that he doesn't want to post his evidence as he has trust issues with telling a bunch of strangers his secrets.

Has anyone actually answered his question?

Has anyone tried to help him?

No wonder he hasn't come back into the thread.





BTW I have no idea what to do next Raptor, I'd start by contacting your local university and asking to see the professors or geology/palentology/or someone else that deals with old stuff.

Read my post again. ALL the evidence we have for lost continents is flawed, allegorical or based on inaccurate data.

you are wrong Harte there's in fact proof that Egyptians fought Atlanteans, what they called The Sea Peoples, which Egyptians told were highly advanced for their time. There are reliefs in Medinet Habu and Karnak that depict the battles they had agains these powerful and strange invaders from the 39 quadrant, which corresponds to Germany (Schleswig Holstein region)

Okay here is my theory. The Sea Peoples are the same as the Atlanteans.

The Sea People were first documented in Egypt around 1200 years BC during the 19th Dynasty. Plato who wrote about atlantis said that Atlantis was 9,000 years before his time (~300bc) and he heard the story from Critias who heard it from Egyption priests. Since it was the Egyptians who often sparred with the Sea People, the Egyptians probably had a significant oral history of them and probably demonized them with disaster stories. Now I think that Plato exageratted his time instead of 9000 years it was probably 900 years, the same time of the Sea People invasions in egypt. So as you can see it all fits.

you guys can check Jurgen Spanuth's theories for a confirmation on this if you want.

I'll take that as a yes then.

Apparently, Qoais takes it with a bit of salt, too, Emma. At least I hope that's what s/he used so many qoutation marks.



Well, in the first places there's quite a lot of history and science that says lost continents /didn't/ exist, and quite frankly you (like several other people around here) don't strike me as being more intelligent and more informed that the entirety of modern learning. Secondly, as I say a lot, it's foolish bordering on dangerous to take any fiction -- religious or not -- as literally true. I mean, where do you stop? If you think the Atlantis in the Critias is real, why not go looking for Hogwarts? So far, no-one's been able to give a good answer to that.




I have read many of the Vedas. Nowhere in them, though, do they mention "Atlantis". Or nuclear warfare. These all come from deliberate mis-translations from the 19th Century on. You should read up on these alleged ancient artifacts. If you do, you'll see there's no reason to a) believe 99% of them ever existed, or that there's no reasonable explanation for them.

Again, like many people here, you seem to have substantial difficulty in separating facts from beliefs.

--Jaylemurph

You might have actually had a point if the only reason he started this thread was to tell everyone he had found Atlantis. But I believe the thread was actually about asking for some advice on who to take his discovery to. Which was answered by a few posters suggesting that if he were serious, he could take his ideas to a university so the experts could have a look and possibly publish his findings.

Whether he wishes to discuss his findings here is up to him and has nothing to do with you or anyone else. And there are some valid reasons why you might not want to discuss them here. I don't see him as being among the more childish ones in this thread.

At Medinet Habu, the groups that made up the Sea Peoples are actually listed by name. They were a diverse group coming from many different areas, many of which we still aren't sure of.

But the Egyptians knew them well enough. And they do not correspond in any way to what Plato said about Atlantis.

All that aside, you can believe what you want about them. I believe they were the 69 Mets. You got a problem with that?


Glad you finally stated (at the bottom of your post) whose theory this actually is. It's not nice to misappropriate another's idea without giving credit. And, of course, I've been all through this idea. I even agree with parts of it.

At least you didn't include the ridiculous idea of the Egyptian "Lunar Calendar" versus the "Solar Calendar."


If Solon (not Critias - Critias the Elder said, according to Plato, that he heard the tale from the famous Greek statesman Solon,) actually heard anything like the story of Atlantis from anyone in Egypt (and there's no reason to believe he did,) he probably heard about the Minoans, not the Sea Peoples (although the same cataclysm might have been instrumental in the Sea People's eventual ravaging of the area.)



Twice. The Sea Peoples devastated many areas of the Eastern Med., not just Egypt. Current thinking is that they may have been sponsored, or bribed by, the Phoenicians, who were not much at the time but rose to very high prominence immediately afterward and were suspiciously never attacked by the Sea Peoples - one of very few coastal countries that could make that claim.


No, only a tiny fraction fits at all. No lost continent, no "beyond the pillars of Heracles..." no defeat of the "Atlanteans" at the hands of the Athenians, no 9,000 years before Plato, etc.

But, other than that, and other than the likelihood that Solon, who did actually visit Egypt in the time frame Critias the Elder (through Plato) claimed, probably heard about the Minoans (Crete and Thera,) and not the Sea Peoples, the idea is not unsalvageable. But there's practically no similarity with the Atlantis story.

As an aside, some of the peoples that eventually destroyed the Minoans were almost certainly the predecessors of the Greeks. So according to the Thera idea, if Plato was accurate, the Athenians eventually conquered another Greek tribe. Sounds more like Troy. This is why many scholars claim that the revelation that he was plagiarising Homer's tale was the reason Plato never finished his Critias dialogue.

Harte

I think you need to lighten up a bit mate.

Sorry - should have used an emoticon.

"You got a problem with that" was my attempt at impersonating a Mets fan.

Harte

If we are talking about Met's fans, shouldn't we really be in the cryptid section? I mean after all they are rumored to exist, their is even some speculative evidence, just not a lot of us have seen one in real life.

(I don't know how to do the laughing emoticon or I would have added that at the end. )

Its funny, it really is, all of a sudden there is plenty of evidence to suggest to the contrary that there are no ancient , lost continents or countires or cities. Its acutally quite easy to say this, I say there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise, only if you open your minds, and did not stick within a strict scientific framework, which to be honest in most cases is not established science. Therefore both sides of the arguments, mostly rely on theories. As you know there are many, some foolish some have some credible basis.

You said, "I have read many of the Vedas. Nowhere in them, though, do they mention "Atlantis". Or nuclear warfare. These all come from deliberate mis-translations from the 19th Century on. You should read up on these alleged ancient artifacts. If you do, you'll see there's no reason to a) believe 99% of them ever existed, or that there's no reasonable explanation for them."

Translations by nature, can have mistakes and one persons understanding of sanksrit, may not be as comprehensive as anothers. I for one am from that place india in which existed the rama empire totally landlocked, a melting pot of many cultures, religions, and beliefs. I know of poeple who speak sanskrit, poeple who understand properly, not those misleading scientists, who
have an agenda, to re-inforce the stupid belief that man, (modern man) has only been around for 10's of thousands of years only, based on what, oh yeh a theory of evolution, emphasis is here on THEORY.

I can assure that, atlantis is mentioned in hindu scriptures, in many places, you have the vedas, made of many books, then the puranas, etc. Yes they are religious books to poeple of the hinduism faithl like the bible is to christians, but thats does not mean there is no accuracy or any historical data within. After all the bible is best described as an historical encyclopedia.

Most of you who believe there is no evidence of ancient lost continents or man being here longer than we assume, is simply because you take the evolution theory as factual established science, there are 100's of scientists, nobel peace prize winners and Darwin himself dint actually believe in it. So if you accept this theory as established fact, any evidence to the contrary is simple not enterntained, due narrow mindedness of poeple, who actually base their belief on theory, then have the audacity to say we are basing our evidence on conjecture and whim. Lol

Yeh right!

No your wrong, you believe the only person to mention atlantis is plato, i argue its not, infact there more precise and detailed descriptions from other sources, my point to you was this, lost continents is flawed based on what, i have seen the so called scientific evidence, which is made to support and stay within the frameworks of evolution, and guess what evolution is bull and has been proven so, but in the west it is still taught as fact. When the latter is the case any notions of man being here longer than we think, is not entertained by narrow minded people like you have limited scientific knowledge, which has fit in to the stupid rigid framwork of evolution and its timelines.

You say inaccurate data, accorinding who...lets take plato for example, you claim his notion of atlantis, was a political metaphor, based on someone assumption and translation of his words, who have decided not to take it literally, I ask why? He was quite clear was he not about the place, and then why not take literally. I would agree, if he was not so precise and descriptive of the place.

Raptor. I'm not going to say you didn't find atlantis.....I am going to ask you...with ALL of your resources in researching this issue and your fortune in finding this hidden nugget of info that unlocked the path to the lost city....how didn't you come across one single name or organization?

Raptor,

Have you been to the site and recovered any artifacts to show as evidence? If so can you post photos? If you have not been to the site how can you claim you found Atlantis?

A) No, really, it's not. I can say this with the authority of a Real Historian ™. No troops of wandering Hebrew ex-slaves have ever been referred to in any period text. No other mentions of the sun stopping in the sky for a group of war-like for Israelites. There's not even much of an argument to be made for a real-life Jesus in First Century Judea. Like any good fiction, there is some verisimilitude in the Bible. But like with every other fiction, some of it's not real (I feel silly even having to point this out). And there is no ipse re way to tell what is real and what isn't, so it is a large mistake in logical procedure to assume /any/ of it's true without some archaeological/anthropological/historical reference to back it up. What you're doing is choosing what you want to believe /first/, then forcing the bible and some other unfortunate texts into the reading you want, regardless of the intent of the text or its context.

B) If these proofs are so readily available, spit them out so we can see them. It's the old problem with the ridiculous and insulting bunk that historians and scientists are working en masse to cover some mythic proto-history. I'd say throw some proof up for that, but I'm going to allege with virtual certainty your ignorance of the communities of academic historians and professional scientists. If you had even the smallest inking of them, you'd see how foolish this claim is and how impossible it'd be to work it.

C) There is no place called Atlantis in any of the Indian religious texts. Full stop. What you're doing is this: seeing some deliberately obscured reference to lost lands or lands of the gods and assuming it is the same thing as Plato's Atlantis, as I said, ignoring fully both the the context and intent of the two texts. No real historian would do this - -the only ones who would do so are pseduo-historians out to bolster a point they've already made, usually to the end of relieving you of your excess cash.



I don't really want to get involved between you and your fight against modern learning, but history and evolutionary biology are completely different fields. Their imagined complicity tends to be created in the minds of fringe "theorists" like yourself -- although why you think Nobel Peace Prize winners have /anything/ to do with either field is a bit of a mystery. I do find, however, most violent opposer of evolution are those that haven't actual spent much time learning the theory and tend to parrot back "problems" with it they find on the internet.

--Jaylemurph

This is extremely easy to say if you omit referring to these "other sources" as you have done here.

It is a worthless claim if you continue to refuse to back it up.

You say that Atlantis is mentioned in the Vedas? Where? Every Vedic text translated into English is available online, and many in different translations, most at Sacred-Texts.com.

What are your "other sources" besides the Vedas? Can you quote anything from any of them? Or not?

Show us that you're not ignorant. Or not not ignorant, as the case may be.

I know where I'm putting my money.


That is what is "bull." The fact that you can type a claim is not evidence for the veracity of that claim.

The absence of even the tiniest bit of evidence for a lost continent is the "scientific evidence" for there being no lost continent. It is completely and utterly unrelated in any way, shape or form to the Theory of Evolution. It has nothing to do with the presence, or absence, of humans or their predecessors.


Evolution, again, has nothing to do with it. There is no evidence that people have been here longer, thus there is no reason at all to believe they have.

The Theory of Evolution simply doesn't enter into the argument.


Plato's tale has Athenians defeating the Atlanteans. Were you aware of this?

The story does involve the predecessors of the Athenians, who (according to the priest of Sais) were more noble than the Athenians of Plato's day.

Problem is, Athens didn't exist 9,000 years before Plato, though the story asserts that it did.

How do you get past this without delving into the realm of the sublimely goofy?

This is only one of hundreds of reasons to believe that Plato made the whole thing up.

There is a large body of members here at U-M that have spent a great deal of time on the subject of Atlantis. We here do not dismiss this thing whimsically.

Harte

Why is this thread still up? There are children in ethiopia that need valuable bandwidth and we insist on wasting it day in and day out.

I know where Atlantis is....aaaha...aahaa.....under Beavis's butt.

Lol nice one

I think he is referring to the 'Asvins' mentioned in the Vedas. For some reason, they seem to get labeled as the Atlanteans. I've seen some SERIOUS rearranging of words and names to come up with this link, but nothing of proof. The problem with all this comes down to translation. Here is the oft quoted Marsala Purva book 16 in the Mahabharata that I always see, describing a nuclear explosion:

"The weapon was a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendor...
An iron thunderbolt, A gigantic messenger of death, Which reduced to ashes The entire race of the Vrishnis And the Andhakas. .. the corpses were so burned As to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. .. After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected... .. to escape from this fire The soldiers threw themselves in streams To wash themselves and their equipment..."

I think this one translation has made the rounds on 50,000 different websites. But the truth may not be so exciting or Earth-shattering. Here is the ACTUAL translation at sacred-texts.com, with my bold text to highlight the similarity of the above:

Vaishampayana said: "While the Vrishnis and the Andhakas were thus endeavouring (to avoid the impending calamity), the embodied form of Time (death) every day wandered about their houses. He looked like a man of terrible and fierce aspect. Of bald head, he was black and of tawny complexion. Sometimes he was seen by the Vrishnis as he peered into their houses. The mighty bowmen among the Vrishnis shot hundreds and thousands of shafts at him, but none of these succeeded in piercing him, for he was none else than the Destroyer of all creatures. Day by day strong winds blew, and many were the evil omens that arose, awful and foreboding the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. The streets swarmed with rats and mice. Earthen pots showed cracks or broke from no apparent cause. At night, the rats and mice ate away the hair and nails of slumbering men. Sarikas chirped, sitting within the houses of the Vrishnis. The noise made by those birds ceased not for even a short while by day or by night. The Sarashas were heard to imitate the hooting of the owl, and goats imitated the cries, O Bharata, of jackals. Many birds appeared, impelled by Death, that were pale of complexion but that had legs red of hue. Pigeons were seen to always disport in the houses of the Vrishnis. Asses were born of kine, and elephants of mules. Cats were born of b****es, and mouse of the mongoose. The Vrishnis, committing sinful acts, were not seen to feel any shame. They showed disregard for Brahmanas and the Pitris and the deities, They insulted and humiliated their preceptors and seniors. Only Rama and Janardana acted differently. Wives deceived their husbands, and husbands deceived their wives. Fires, when ignited, cast their flames towards the left. Sometimes they threw out flames whose splendour was blue and red. The Sun, whether when rising or setting over the city, seemed to be surrounded by headless trunks of human form. In cook rooms, upon food that was clean and well-boiled, were seen, when it was served out for eating, innumerable worms of diverse kinds. When Brahmanas, receiving gifts, blessed the day or the hour (fixed for this or that undertaking) or when high-souled men were engaged in silent recitations, the heavy tread was heard of innumerable men running about, but no one could be seen to whom the sound of such tread could be ascribed. The constellations were repeatedly seen to be struck by the planets. None amongst the Yadavas could, however, obtain a sight of the constellation of his birth. When the Panchajanya was blown in their houses, asses of dissonant and awful voice brayed aloud from every direction. "Beholding these signs that indicated the perverse course of Time, and seeing that the day of the new moon coincided with the thirteenth (and the fourteenth) lunation, Hrishikesa, summoning the Yadavas, said unto them these words: ‘The fourteenth lunation has been made the fifteenth by Rahu once more. Such a day had happened at the time of the great battle of the Bharatas. It has once more appeared, it seems, for our destruction.’ "The slayer of Keshi, Janardana, thinking upon the omens that Time showed, understood that the thirty-sixth year had come, and that what Gandhari, burning with grief on account of the death of her sons, and deprived of all her kinsmen, had said was about to transpire. ‘The present is exactly similar to that time when Yudhishthira noted at such awful omens when the two armies had been arrayed in order of battle.’ Vasudeva, having said so, endeavoured to bring about those occurrences which would make Gandhari’s words true. That chastiser of foes commanded the Vrishnis to make a pilgrimage to some sacred water. The messengers forthwith proclaimed at the command of Keshava that the Vrishnis should make a journey to the sea-coast for bathing in the sacred waters of the ocean."

I see many sites that speak of the cities supposedly caught in the blast of this weapon, such as Mohenjo-daro in Pakistan. They say the cities had 'Millions' of inhabitants, but the reality is that they had maybe 35,000 or so.

The Mahabharata speaks of the empire of Krishna and its destruction in the great war between the Lunars and the Solars (the Kurus and Pandus). It says that Dvaraka, the capital of Krishna, was located on an island in the middle of the seas. Dvaraka sank beneath the sea after a great cataclysm (war), much in the same manner that Atlantis did, according to Plato. Maybe this is where he got the idea for Atlantis?

Why can't we look at these texts as well as Plato's as nothing more than a work of fiction? If we apply how we look at these to future generations, then one sunny day 5000 years from now, when they are digging up the remains of our civilization, they'll think we had talking purple dinosaurs and an epic battle of good vs. evil in a galaxy far, far away.

Hey Harte!

Never mind, it is a expression to crazy ppeople in my language, I forgot that it would make no sense for other cultures! Sorry for that!

Ok, maybe he's nuts! ;D

Let him be! Why ban him just because he thinks he found Atlantis in a blink of an eye?

You believed in that stupid drone story and no one wanted to ban you for that.

Forgive me for not being here so most ouf you can bash me to my face. You people are so pathetic. You are resorting to calling me names?! OMG! Why do I even bother with you people! It is nice to have a reminder of why I did not accept a job offer from the pentegon and why I chose to graduate from high school at 15 years old instead of having to be near people like you! I would have had to deal with people's closeminded, backstabing BS! Most of you are behaving like pathetic children. You are the ones that need to grow up and not me!

My apologies for tracking down sonar and satelite immages of what I am trying so hard to prove and not hanging around freaking people such as yourselves. You don't want to believe me, fine. Just be an adult about it, say so and move on. But that is probably WAY too much to ask of such pathetic individuals such as most of you. I stress MOST not ALL of you are like this.

My thanks go to those who have actually read and understood what I was saying instead of snapping out at me like most of the pathetic children here.

Why am I even still typing? Most of you are not even worth speaking to.

I do believe Atlantis did once excist, but i highly doubt the OP found it's resting place.
I'd need to see prove first.

Wow look!! A real person! One of the few here. Ty Creepy_Steve. Do all of you not see? That is all need be said. Now I suppose that is too difficult for many of you, I do understand this.

True, upset I may be but not by such foul words. But of the mentallity of so many. This is what disgusts me not words.
It really is tragic that you people are not alone. Most of the human race behaves as such....... I just thought that people here may be more evolved than such a mentallity. Obviously I have been mistaken.

Here is a little advice for many of you here: Try to evolve past the 5 year old menallity that you are stuck in. The world will be a better place!

What??

You might not understand, but a few of us have been here for a while - we hear stuff like this ALL the time. There is so much talking about making new discoveries, but never any proof. Ever.

While I'm sorry if you feel you've been insulted, you can't blame the more level headed members of the board of 1) asking for a bit of proof and 2) giving historical and scientific reasons why is it highly highly unlikely Atlantis ever existed and any "proof" thereof is massively flawed.

So. Don't call the kettle black and react in a childish way all of your own - if you actually have proof, show some, because you can throw a stone in here and hit a thread like this. If you want to be treated like you've actually made a discovery, prove that you have.

Now, now... hold on there. This isn't just Atlantis Found... it's Atlantis Found (FOR REAL). See, that's the deal maker.

And to the OP (Utahraptor), if random message board threads from complete strangers cause an emotional outburst like that, imagine when you have to stand before a crowd and defend your theory to real-life Archaeologists and journalists.

I think you are too stressed with things you shouldn’t. For example, I believe in you. I mean, I believe you have a study, but I can’t believe that Atlantis is for real until I read your study. To be honest, I would love it to be real, but so far I haven’t seen anything that can prove it was real. (Not talking specifically of you) but the proofs presented until this day about Atlantis.
I myself once created a thread here about Atlantis and a scientist, who thinks it is in South America, somewhere near the Andes Mountains.

When I said you may be nuts, just above I was kidding, anyway, hope you understand. And as I said before (for real) we cannot say you are nuts until you present your stuff.

Don’t worry, I will read it whenever you present the material. My judgment about it will depend on your proofs, studies, etc. ;D

Anyway, this is a forum; expect different opinions, point of view, more mature or more childish than yours. Also, sarcasm or sense o humor too… This happens everywhere and the world would be boring if everyone agreed with everything without asking questions about it, etc, etc, etc.

This is also true. Try to cool down and as you said, you found it, there is nothing to worry about then. But you will be contested, questioned to the bones by other experts in the matter; the ones who believe in Atlantis and the ones who don’t.
There will be those who probably will even call you Anti Christ O.o No, forget the last sentence. Just being funny.

Mate, just give a bit of your research here so we can read and think about what you’re saying.

Folks..the only thing raptor did was ask opinion of where he should take his theory of the location of atlantis as a presentation, suggestions only.
Not that he was iviting us all for a free for all.
Give him advise, dont get on his back or nag the hell out of him..give him a chance.
keep your mind open.
So far i dont believe in Atlantis, But if in the future there do arises evidence of Atlantis, i might be interested to look into it..thats all.

Stop the bashing..after all he asked was for advise.

Raptor..you went beyond what you asked for..you divulged some part of your theroy stating its all in the languages etc...and mayans etc...
this is where it all went wrong!

and to the other atlantis-referred-in-vedas..fans...that complete BS! I am an indian, I have read the vedas more no of times than you and i have read almost all the hindu holy books and religious scripts!! I can say with some what authority...Please take the "Taurus Excrement" else where dude!!

UtahRaptor,

What do you have, or what have you found?

One reason people get so hostile about this is because seriously, there are so many people that come in these forums and announce they have found the holy grail, or atlantis, or figured out the way leylines come together to enter an alternate dimension, but no one ever brings their evidence. We are tired of getting interested in something someone claims, only to be shown again that it was just some crackpot trying to sell a book or what have you.

If you think you do not deserve to be treated the same way we treat these crackpots, then after 9 pages of a thread, you might want to throw us a bone.

Do you have something or not?

Yes, I agree. Everyone here should grow up and stop trying to poke holes in the fact that is Atlantis. Evidence? Pfft...who needs it right? *high five Utah!*


Tip: Read Emma's posts three times over.

Halarious

I think if you would put up the proof instead of talking about it, then there would be no problem. Talk is cheap. Peace.

Ahh, I see you have taken the often "I reject your reality and substitute my own" ploy. I too find, simply making up history is much more rewarding than any kind of academic endeavor. Kudos to you sir, so few of these days are able to persist in such magnitudes of delusion.

Actually, reading many posts here it appears there are many on your ship!

Nice post, A. P. It pretty much explicitly proves what I tried to tell the OP.



It's been a good week for flouncing, diva-esque "You don't believe me without question so I'm going home, nyah" posts hasn't it?
I'm thinking another few weeks in high school could have helped his social skills. Or not.

--Jaylemurph

Bwaahhahahaa....

Youre mean. (So funny)

See Raptor, what did I say?

Type out your hypothesis, otherwise this is going to look like a "Guess what this is/what do you see" which we really hate seeing.

Since you have not typed out a hypothesis, you are receiving the usual flak associated with this kind of posting.

First all lets get one thing right - Translation. When you translate something from the orignal language, you try and choose the best words which fit the orignal and its meaning. Glad we have this straight. As an indian, i know that sanksrit words can have several meaning, depending on context, what follows etc. Like say hewbrew if im right or Arabic for definite.

So when choosing which translation to go by, you try and choose someone who is an expert in the language, and the language it being translated in to it. Me being in indian, and sanksrit being an indian language, i can assure you i can contact the best in my country and people who know the english language very well, but most of the orignal Sanskrit. The orignal verse which does indicate the nuclear warfare etc, it more accurate than the one you present later.

Without getting technical, we first check the source of translation, which comes from sacred texts.com. Lets see who made them or him or her, the foremost authority on the vedas and the sanksrit language. Its poeple like you and jay, who claim we follow only wat suits us, I guess this model actually fits you fellas better.

Lets examine John B Hare - who is he, who made him the authority on the books, yeh i know he just presents the books on his website, but he chooses which ones to have, and which translation. and where did he get his academic qualifications.

Basically, there are many tranlsations around and there is some historical evidence to suggest that nuclear warfare in ancient india is for real and did happen. The orignal texts in sanskrit refer to many other phenomena such as aircraft, how to build batteries, how to fly a vimana, (detailed instruction manuaL) archeological evidence etc. Its down to who's opinion you accept more. I too was skeptical about all this until i was enlightened by the vedas, something from my own land.

ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION PROVIDES INFORMATION

Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. "It's so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did. The radioactive ash adds credibility to the ancient Indian records that describe atomic warfare."

Construction has halted while the five member team conducts the investigation. The foreman of the project is Lee Hundley, who pioneered the investigation after the high level of radiation was discovered.

A HISTORIAN COMMENTS

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."

"The ancient Hindus could navigate the air, and not only navigate it, but fight battles in it like so many war-eagles combating for the domination of the clouds. To be so perfect in aeronautics, they must have known all the arts and sciences related to the science, including the strata and currents of the atmosphere, the relative temperature, humidity, density and specific gravity of the various gases...”

~ Col. Henry S Olcott (1832 – 1907) American author, attorney, philosopher, and cofounder of the Theosophical Society in a lecture in Allahabad, in 1881.

"Frederick Soddy (1877 - 1956) English born scientist. Studied in the University of Oxford. From 1900 to 1902 and was Chemistry assistant in the University of McGill, Montreal, where he co-worked with Rutherford. He received in 1921 a Nobel Prize Laureate in Chemistry. He awarded the Nobel prize in 1921 - ""for his contributions to our knowledge of the chemistry of radioactive substances, and his investigations into the origin and nature of isotopes" In 1903, with Sir William Ramsay, Soddy verified that the decay of radium produced helium.

He had a great regard for the Indian epics of Ramayana and The Mahabharat. In 1909 when academics were first beginning to grasp the awesome power of the atom, he did not take these ancient records as fable.

In the Interpretation of Radium (1909) he wrote these lines:

“Can we not read into them some justification for the belief that some former forgotten race of men attained not only to the knowledge we have so recently won, but also to the power that is not yet ours?”

When Dr Soddy wrote the book, the atom-bomb box of Pandora had not yet been opened.

In 1909 when academics were first beginning to grasp the awesome power of the atom, physicist Frederick Soddy wrote in his Interpretation of Radium: "I believe that there have been civilisations in the past that were familiar with atomic energy, and that by misusing it they were totally destroyed

would you like me to carry on, because i believe most poeple in here have probably seen all this before. What evidence is there, that ancients did not have technology that we posses today or more. Nothing, just hypothesis, based on what little history we know, and due to the modern science heavily based within the evolution theory timeline, anything other wise is not entertained. You say, what has evolution got to do with it. Well, all modern scientist have to accept this theory and what it entails in its entirety, otherwise they are not amongst the mainstream and their work thus is not accepted. Evloution has a rigid frame work, and its due to alleged processes of evolution that, we have got where we are. So within it whether you like it or not, it contains a timeline, to which modern science sticks too.

also, due to the church in western history, science rejects religion and its scriptures, due to one religion christianity. Scientists like galeleo, were executed for the discovries he made in science, these discoveries did not fit the model of the universe and its beginings which bible preaches and therefore a conflit between science and religion arose. You only get this phenemona in the west, other religions have worked alongside science. As a result of this, you had scientist accepting anything which would de-credit the bible and thus evolution theory was accepted and taught. The result of this now is, that science would not even entertain a religious scripture and what it has to say.

"Interestingly, Manhattan Project chief scientist Dr J. Robert Oppenheimer was known to be familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature. In an interview conducted after he watched the first atomic test, he quoted from the Bhagavad Gita: "'Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.' I suppose we all felt that way." When asked in an interview at Rochester University seven years after the Alamogordo nuclear test whether that was the first atomic bomb ever to be detonated, his reply was, "Well, yes, in modern history."

HMMM WONDER WHERE HE GOT THOSE WORDS FROM......

jOIN THE SHIP DUDE OR JUMP!

lets see wat you can bring to the table...........

" Through astronomy, geography, and geology, go thou to all the different countries of the world under the sun. Mayest thou attain through good preaching to statesmanship and artisanship, through medical science obtain knowledge of all medicinal plants, through hydrostatics learn the different uses of water, through electricity understand the working of ever lustrous lightening. Carry out my instructions willingly." (Yajur-veda 6.21).

I have to say, I am seriously appalled by most of you.

I am not at all surprised you haven’t been given any more information by the OP, look what you do with the mere idea of a new theory. If I thought I’d discovered something knew, I certainly wouldn’t blurt it out here before I was sure of it myself. And here you are condemning a person for simply asking if anybody knew a reliable expert in the field that might be open to hearing a new theory. Wow.

I mean, I understand we are bombarded day in and out with people claiming this and that and it’s impossible to tell who to believe. It can make a person jaded and bitter and that helps no one. If you don’t have something constructive to say, keep your mouth shut. It’s really very simple. Don’t bash for the sake of bashing especially when you’ve done no research of your own. Otherwise, next time your ideas will meet the same messy end. Once you start to nurture an environment of that nature, it’s a vicious spiral downward. Nobody will feel safe posting their ideas.

There are a few aspects to the Atlantis disucssion that I feel are missing here:

First, I refer you all to R. Cedric Leonard. Now, I have not read any of the source materials in their original form (language), so you should, of course, verify his information before you form an opinion on it. Here is his “Timeline of Ancient Sources” http://atlantisquest.com/Timeline.html Read what he has to say, I won’t retype it all here but go to the link before you reply to my post. Then tear it apart at your leisure. I don’t agree with everything he has to say, but there’s a bunch of really great information all laid out together for the visual learner (like me).

Onward...

1) More than one location fits different elements of Plato’s story, we know this. Cuba, Bolivia, the Azores, Thera, Ireland, Indonesia, Japan, somewhere in the arctic, somewhere in the antarctic, everyone has a theory. Everyone says they have proof. Perhaps there was more than one civilization wiped out at the end of the last ice age. It’s not a stretch to believe that people would have lived in low-lying lands all around the world that were inundated with water. That doesn’t mean they’re all Atlantis, or that any of them are. Since I don’t think we’re going to find a “Welcome to Atlantis, pop. 2.3 million” sign, we’re going to have to listen to each other's ideas, do our own research and come to our own conclusions. But that require supporting each other, not tearing everyone apart because you’re bored and like to hear yourself talk.

2) There is the possibility of a more guiding morality element to the legend as well as an historical. Just as the Holy Grail requires that Grail Seekers adhere to the Grail Code, the story of Atlantis guides us in how to evolve and grow as a people, or rather it's a warning of how not to. It’s not a new or original story either, it tells us that if we give into our own arrogance and self-obsession and if we pull away from the natural laws of our existence, war amongst ourselves and unbalance the natural world then we will be destroyed. It’s not a huge stretch to see Atlantis as the island of Manhattan being destroyed in a tsunami or Los Angeles disappearing under the pacific in an earthquake. Maybe we’re drawn to this because of it’s haunting similarities to the situation we find ourselves in now. Perhaps the intent was to disregard the specifics and hold on to the moral of it. Maybe Plato based his morality story on various historical sources, or on one specific island nation, we don't know. We can't get into Plato's head so that leaves us with theorizing, applying common sense and brainstorming.

And fresh ideas are exactly what this needs. We've been bashing and trashing the same concepts, ideas and "evidence" for quite some time. Maybe a new theory would provide some fresh perspective on a very, very stale-mated issue. But now we'll probably never know. I mean, really? 10 pages and only four or five constructive posts? I certainly wouldn't "throw us a bone" after that.

Play nice, children. yeesh.

ps. Since I started writing this there have been some additions to the message board which I would like to use to illustrate my point of what is appropriate on a board like this and what is just plain unnecessary. Ozi had some very interesting insights to bring to us. neither insulting nor condescending, but informative and offering another view point and information not yet brought to the board. Thank you, Ozi. Camlax had something decidedly not helpful to say and, not satisfied with just insulting the OP, insisted on widening that to include everyone that has stuck up for the OP. what's the point in such posts? Please explain because I really don't get it. It's not constructive, it contributes nothing but negativity.

I'd go so far as to say most words in most languages have more than one meaning. In fact, it's in the linguistic definition of a language that there must be some level of ambiguity inherent in a natural language.




Well, that depends chiefly on what you want the translation for. It's not the only reason to pick a particular translator. Knowledge of history of the language and period the text is taken from is often at least as important, since language is not ever used out of a context (though I realize it'd be much simpler for your arguments if it did).



/Which/ text? I assume you're not taking them all en masse...



Uhh... so far as I can tell from the website for Hindu texts at scaredtexts.com, Mr Hare isn't a translator for /any/ of the texts presented. As you say, he's just the one who created the webpage. He's not taking credit for the translations, either, so he can't be held responsible in any way for what's in them.



There is, in fact, no evidence that suggests that nuclear warfare occurred in India. Show us what you think you have and we can show why it's wrong.




Care to tell us where this came from? It's hard to judge it's accuracy or background.
And are you suggesting that radiation (even high radiation) can /only/ come from an atomic war?




...ah well. Clearly one of the founders of the Theosophical Society can be trusted for clear, unblinkered interpretations of history...
Although I think it's odd someone who died forty years before the first nuclear tests could be aware of or compare things with nuclear mushroom clouds. Unless you meant Ganguli , who does /50/ years before them.



You seem to be confusing scientists with historians here.
I'm not really sure what you're aiming at here -- Soddy isn't a historian or archeaologist. All his training in physics or chemistry doesn't really give him any standing to make vast unsubstantiated claims about history.



You've sort of proved that suckers aren't unique to our own time. You've offered up other people's opinions from decades ago -- before the technology they're apparently comparing existed. What you haven't offered is any actual /evidence/ that anyone had any advanced technology.

You're also falling for some fallacious connection between evolution and history, as if the two are somehow reliant on each other. It really just sort of high-lights your ignorance about how each works.



Your knowledge of Western history is a little spotty, possibly deliberately so. Galileo wasn't executed. Since the Reformation, in the Sixteenth Century, science and religion have moved in decidedly separate fields (hence the opposition these days with I.D. and creationism with evolution). You may want to brush up on larger movements like the 18th Century Enlightenment. your argument may have been true 400 years ago, but it wouldn't really hold since.



Almost certainly not because he thought he was re-creating lost technology, as you seem to broadly hint at.

--Jaylemurph