Still no closure. I'm surprised that many are still waiting for this big discovery. I knew Churchward was a bit off.

Someone said to ban him. Banning him won't help at all. It just make me upset. Banning someone for having a thread about Atlantis is a stupid move.

Wether the lost city is real or not. Is questionable. People are still going to look for it. No matter what. And people are still going to believe it. The agrument over it will continue.

Original Poster, I can understand your anger on some of the posts. Some people here feel like they're right. :/ I feel the sameway sometimes. And I sometimes ignore them. Edit: I agree with your last post too.

Claiming the absolute authority card based on culture, are we? I'm 1/8th Muskogee (Creek), but that doesn't make me an automatic expert on the Red Stick wars.



Once again, how does this give you any authority? "Since I'm an Indian, TRUST me when I say that this is all true. They are, after all, from MY land." That is irrelevant. What historical evidence is there that nuclear warfare took place? A layer of radioactive ash? There are many naturally occurring forms of radiation. Look them up on google. But I think the real culprit is simpler than that. From here:

Sceptics have also wondered whether the ancient atomic warfare is not a modern invention, to deflect attention from a serious – modern – atomic contamination. In 1998, it was reported that an Indian power stations had some major problems. One had an incident in which 2000 workers became exposed to excess radiation, 300 of which had to be hospitalised.
Surendra Gadekar also investigated the conditions of villagers at Rawatbhatta in Rajasthan and discovered gross radiation-related deformities. We note that Rawatbhatta is in the same region as the discovery of the “ancient warfare” site. But Gadekar did not find evidence of ancient warfare, but evidence of modern negligence: wood that had been used in the power plant, had then “somehow” made his way into society, where it was subsequently used as wood for a fire. This in itself was a minor incident, but could there have been more serious incidents, whereby it was decided to deflect attention from the present to the ancient past?
We thus find that there no newspapers carried the story of the discovery. The Indian archaeological authorities are not aware of the story. And there is a government laboratory in Jodhpur, Rajasthan. Might something have gone wrong in the latter?

Take those realities and embellish them a bit, inflate the numbers and you have your theory. And then there is this:

Rajasthan occupies an important place in the activities of the DAE. Presently there are four power reactors operating in Rajasthan (RAPS 1,2,3 & 4), two are under construction (RAPS-5 & 6) and a few more are to come up in future. The Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) is determined to make Rawatbhata as a nuclear park. RAPS-1 is in fact the first of the pressurized heavy water reactors (PHWRs), which form the mainstream of the first stage of the Indian Nuclear Power Programme. Currently 12 PHWRs in operation in various parts of the country. A Heavy Water Plant and a Cobalt-60 Facility (RAPCOF) are operational at Rawatbhata. The astronomy-research facility GRACE of DAE is also situated at Mount Abu.

Rajasthan has also the distinction of having the singular site (Pokhran) where all nuclear tests have been conducted by the Department, and which have contributed immensely to national security. On this account, not only the people of Rajasthan, but the whole country derives great pride from these achievements.

So there are descriptions on how to build a flying machine that is suppose to last thousands of years. Where are these machines? Has not one survived? I have blueprints on how to build the time machine from back to the future, that doesn't mean it's going to work. All I need is my 'flux capacitor' and I'm set.



Let's examine this 'Archaeologist' Francis Taylor. Who is he, who made him the authority on this? From here:

The first question is whether a Francis Taylor existed. There is a Francis Taylor, an American museum director, who died in 1957. He was not an archaeologist. There is a “Franciscio Taylor”, but he is not the above quoted Francis Taylor. Not a good start.

Why are there no other papers or information on this man, especially if he was a part of this great discovery? No documents show this man ever existed. Being Indian, you should know that a search of Pakistani and Indian papers return absolutely no results on Francis Taylor, or this supposed discovery he made. Indian archaeological authorities have no stories on this either. Wouldn't at least one paper do a story on something so ground-breaking?



How is this proof??



What does any of this have to do with proof? There are the opinions of individuals. They do not prove a thing. Just because a physicist believes that there have been cultures of the past familiar with atomic energy, does not make it so. So 'Big man who use big words says so... must be true' ?



So now Oppenheimer has a magical looking glass to the past as well? This is merely his opinion. Where is his undisputed proof? Where are the uranium mines? Where are the lead lined facilities to build these bombs and flying ships? I too would like to believe there was an advanced civilization, but I can't until I see some proof. I have scoured the internet for stories related to these cities, and the only sites putting forward the theory you represent are those hosted by people with the same 'what if?' glittering in their eyes. When they dig up a Vamana, I'll start to believe.

Ozi,
Your mouth is writing checks that your brain can't cash.

You may not want to believe it, but there are a few people here that have looked long and hard into this.
It's embarassingly apparent that you, an Indian, have no idea what you're talking about.


Here's where you really exposed how far you will go to maintain a line of bull. You'll see why below


There are actually very few "...translations around...
Your "detailed instruction manual" was written in the first half of the twentieth century. I don't know, myself, but, gee, I would have thought that "as an Indian..." you should have known at least this much.



See, it turns out that there exists no such "Archaeologist Francis Taylor."
Pardon me while I quote me:

Source: Another earlier thread where this idea was completely blown away by common sense (aahhh...)



Here's the (rotten) meat of this ridiculous matter and I think I should here revisit your petulant words about checking a translator that thinks he's "...the foremost authority on the vedas and the sanksrit language...":


Note your (unattributed) quote concerning "Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli ." Now, go to the Sacred Texts site and find the Mahabharata (here's the link). See the first page? See the translator's name?

No? I don't blame you for not going there and looking. It certainly shows you in a bad light. But for those that want to know:
Here's what it says on that page at Sacred Texts:

It is:
Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli!!!

Care to explain how a translator (not an historian, by the way) knew about "mushroom clouds" 55 years before the first mushroom cloud was ever observed?

Dude, you might do well to surf around here a while before you stick both feet in your mouth again.

Anyone wonders, here's links to two previous threads where I've said this very same thing. To this day it remains unrefuted. I maintain that it is irrefutable.

Link 1

Link 2

Harte

If I was being reasonable and simple - I'd say Atlantis is nothing more than a myth conjured up by Plato during a stay on an island somewhere in the Mediterranean.

Having said that, he was specific (I think...) in that Atlantis was located beyond the twin pillars of Hercules - ie out in the Atlantic somewhere (hence the name...DOH).

Sods law being what it is, the scientists will no doubt 'prove' (ie trouble makers out to cause problems) that it was somewhere on Antarctica and was wiped out during some climate disaster.

Isn't there an ancient map somewhere dated pre whenever which shows the coastline of Antarctica? The theory being that it must have been drawn up by somebody from way back whenever and the therefore before the snow and ice covered over Antarctica (again, sure I read somewhere that they had found fossilised/frozen trees in some of the ice cores).

I had this idea a while back that it may have been something to do with the Aztecs or Mayans - got that thought after I saw something on Discovery channel about some bizarre peat like substance they had found all over the upper end of the amazon river system - but would it have been so different a society for it to form into a legend that Plato himself would pass on?

11 pages and i'm not eager to read it all. so has he mentioned it where yet?

No, but he made a rather theatrical, sub-Gabor Sister exit post earlier.
Frankly, it was more interesting.

--Jaylemurph

i hope he says bermuda triangle.and thats why people disapear.

actually now i lean mid atlntc ridge mixed with island shape
a volcanix eruption like st. helens would erase the island.
then the fact of caldera physics [sink into ocean] erasing more evidence
then add years of volcanic activity and storms

complete and total annhilation=no evidence ever
that is if it is real.

oops thought i didnt hit it for a sec

There are quite a few maps that purport to show the coastline of Antarctica. Oronteus Finaeus, Piri Reis, Giorgio Calopodio, Gerardo Mercator Kremer, Phillipe Bauche. Hapgood wrote a book about it around 40 years ago. The only problem is that when you look at the maps, they aren't always so accurate as people claim. Take the Piri Reis map. If you take the section that is supposed to be the coast of Antarctica and align it properly beneath South America, it is clearly the rest of the continent that wouldn't fit at the bottom of the page. It matches up with the bays and the Falkland islands. If the map was so accurate, why does he have South America and Antarctica connected at the southern end of Brazil? That would make the coast of Antarctica start about 2000 miles North of it's actual location.

Hang on... so you're questioning a translation of an ancient text because it doesn't mention nuclear warfare?

Makes.... no.... sense.....

*head explodes*

Go Harte! Go Harte!

*does Ricky Lake-style dance*

Questioning a translation because, most of you dont understand this point. In some cases, there is no english words equivlant to some of the Sanskrit words, so when poeple translate those words, they try and choose the best words that fit, and in some cases you will get it wrong, and get the whole meaning wrong. For example, If i wanted to know something from the bible and question it, I would not take it to a budha to get his opinion on christianity or the that aspect of the bible. In the same way, if you want to know whether the scripture truly refer to a nuclear warfare, you dont go to someone else, you goto the source, the original preferbaly, and then take it to a scholar of hindu scriptures, not a wanna be.

Well, I don't know where to begin.

Of course you go to the source, which you simply haven't done. You look up historians who don't exist and references that are 50 years too early to be accurate.

If you go looking for nuclear war in an ancient text, you'll find it, in exactly the same way you'll find UFOs in the bible. But this is doing it the wrong way round. And this is what I meant in my earlier post. Who in their right mind questions the translation of an ancient text because it doesn't refer to nuclear war?

It should be the other way round: if you find a reference to nuclear war in the translation of a text, you research, translate and then research and translate some more, until the most likely event the text is describing is such a war. You don't come to the text with a pre-formed idea of what it shold say, and then discount every translation that says otherwise until you find one that agrees with you. You simply have no idea mate. Two words describe you. And one of them is "pseudo".

I fully understand that point. But you have failed to address the main discrepancy in your argument. The translation of the Mahabharata that I quoted from and is hosted at sacred-texts.com, of which you questioned the 'authority' of, is translated by the very man you quote as your proof there was a nuclear war in ancient India!

From the site:

translated by Kisari Mohan Ganguli [1883-1896]

Go look for yourself. You quote him as your proof, then dismiss his 'real' translation as that of a 'wanna be'.

Edited to add: Furthermore, as Harte has pointed out, how did Ganguli know the effects of a nuclear bomb? He translated the Mahabharata 50 years before the US detonated one! There were no such words as 'mushroom cloud'!

Firstly i knew that the person i quoted was the person who wrote the translation you lot access at sacred texts.com Translated in the late 1800's , its old, hence the reason I posted, you all with out realising are refering old translations. This is precisely wat i mean, there have been errors by many translators, and in modern times, in India, the texts have been translated more accurately to match the original Sanskrit. Therefore, more accurate and it shows reference to the nuclear warfare.

I dont have the time for a rebuttal now, but i will assure you, that i will answer your points one by one. I just wat to finish with one thing for now. If you read the scripts any translation you want, what do you think they are referring to, when they say an iron Thunder bolt from the sky..........................its mentioned so many times in the the ancient scripts and it talks about it like a weapon of mass destruction.......

Scientists Davneport and Vincenti put forward an amazing theory. They stated the ancient town had been ruined with a nuclear blast. They found big stratums of clay and green glass. Apparently, archaeologists supposed, high temperature melted clay and sand and they hardened immediately afterwards. Similar stratums of green glass can also found in Nevada deserts after every nuclear explosion.

A hundred years have passed since the excavations in Mohenjo-Daro. The modern analysis showed, the fragments of the ancient town had been melted with extremely high temperature - not less than 1,500 degrees centigrade. Researchers also found the strictly outlined epicenter, where all houses were leveled. Destructions lessened towards the outskirts. Dozens of skeletons were found in the area of Mohenjo-Daro - their radioactivity exceeded the norm almost 50 times.

The great ancient Indian epic, the Mahabharata, contains numerous legends about the powerful force of a mysterious weapon. One of the chapters tells of a shell, which sparkled like fire, but had no smoke. "When the shell hit the ground, the darkness covered the sky, twisters and storms leveled the towns. A horrible blast burnt thousands of animals and people to ashes. Peasants, townspeople and warriors dived in the river to wash away the poisonous dust."

"A single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as ten thousand Suns, arose in all its splendor… "

…it was unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

The destruction of the enemy army by the “iron thunderbolt” (certainly a more logical name than the “Fat Man” dropped on Nagasaki) is described in the following excerpt from the Samsaptaka-Badha Parva of the Drona Parva in an effective and poetic manner:

….The Vayu (the presiding deity of that mighty weapon) bore away crowds of Samsaptakas with steeds and elephants and cars and weapons, as if these were dry leaves of trees…Borne away by the wind O King, they looked highly beautiful like flying birds…flying away from trees….”

And again, in the Naryamastra Mokshana Parva (Drona Parva), reference is made to the “Agneya Weapon” incapable of being resisted by the very gods.

Meteors flashed down from the firmament…A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the host. All points of the compass were enveloped by that darkness…Inauspicious winds began to blow…the sun seemed to turn round, the universe, scorched with heat, seemed to be in a fever. The elephants and other creatures of the land, scorched by the energy of that weapon, ran in flight….The very waters being heated, the creatures residing in that element began to burn..hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down in a raging fire- huge elephants burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth…uttering fierce cries …others (s) scorched by the fire ran hither and thither, as in the midst of a forest conflagration, the steeds…and the cars (chariots) also burnt by the energy of that weapon looked…like the tops of trees burnt in a forest fire…”

The after effects to the earth, one might infer, noted by some ecologist of prehistory:

…winds dry and strong and showering gravel blew from every side…Birds began to wheel making circles…The horizon on every side seemed to be covered with fog. Meteors – showering blazing coals fell on the earth from the sky…The Sun’ disk…seemed to be always covered with dust…Fierce circles of light were seen every day around both the sun and the moon…A little while after the Kuru king, Yudhishshira heard of the wholesale carnage of the Vrishnis in consequence of the iron bolt…(Mausala Parva).

Even a prayer to the Creator has come down to us, imploring divine intercession to stop the effects of the “final” weapon:

“….O illustrious one – let the threefold universe – the future, the Past and the Present exist. From thy wrath a substance like fire has sprung into existence; even now blistering hills, trees and rivers and all kinds of herbs and grass in the mobile and immobile universe is being reduced to ashes! (Abhimanyu Badha Parva).

A most unusual excerpt from the Mausala Parva contains an oddly modern reminder relative to limitation, destruction and disposal of deadly missiles:

“…an iron bolt through which all the individuals in the race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas became consumed into ashes…a fierce iron bolt that looked like a gigantic messenger of death…In great distress of mind the King caused that iron bolt to be reduced into fine powder. Men were employed, O King, to cast that powder into the sea…”

Another Oppenhiemer one....."Only seven years after the first successful atom bomb blast in New Mexico, Dr. Robert Oppenheimer (1904-1967) Scientist, philosopher, bohemian, and radical. A theoretical physicist and the Supervising Scientist of the Manhattan Project, who was familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature, was giving a lecture at Rochester University. During the question and answer period a student asked a question to which Oppenheimer gave a strangely qualified answer:

Student: Was the bomb exploded at Alamogordo during the Manhattan Project the first one to be detonated?

Dr. Oppenheimer: "Well -- yes. In modern times, of course."

Well only in modern times.....thats some statement, what did he mean.

the verse, in question, the one about the nuke etc, comes from 1889- a translation which is also old, just like the ones u guys refer to and it was done by Protap Chandra Roy.

An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as ten thousand Suns Rose in all its splendor......it was an unknown weapon, An iron thunderbolt, A gigantic messenger of death, Which reduced to ashes. The Entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas....the corpses were so burned As to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected......To escape from this fire. The soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment...

Which ever way you look at it, it was refering to nuke warfare. For some reason, i dont understand why you think technology in history has moved in linear way. Its has not, it has had ups and downs. Ancient civilisations managed to use atomic energy and destroyed themselves, bit like the direction we are going in, in that destruction, you lose all, and those who survive begin again, but the past expertise is lost only reminents of it remain. The earth has gone in cycles, man destroys himself and what he built, and then start again, from scratch.

Last quote to finish on....

"One is reminded of the yet unknown final effect of a super-bomb when we read in the Ramayana of a projectile:

...So powerful that it could destroy
The earth in an instant -
A great soaring sound in smoke and flames...
And on it sits Death...

No wat you are misunderstanding is this, the man who wrote that translation is actually saying that he does believe of an ancient nuclear war......I knew all along who translated your given verse, can you point me to that verse again, i know its book 16, which section. Anyway the point being, the discrepancy lies with you, you give a translation from a man, who gets it a little wrong as proof of nuke war in ancient script, i provide a direct quote from him which contradicts you and his translation, some where in the middle lies the truth.

LOOOOL....

i use historians from 50 years ago, you know why, because these are the poeple who's translations you refer too... Duh. and then a provided a quote from one of the dudes who did the translation and he believed it be true, that nuke warefare existed in ancient india.

You say "It should be the other way round: if you find a reference to nuclear war in the translation of a text, you research, translate and then research and translate some more, until the most likely event the text is describing is such a war. You don't come to the text with a pre-formed idea of what it shold say, and then discount every translation that says otherwise until you find one that agrees with you. You simply have no idea mate. Two words describe you. And one of them is "pseudo".

I say this, you come across an acient text which has been translated in to english in the late 19th century and early 20th century, although the nuke was not ready then, scientist were not that far off the concept and splitting the atom. As i was saying, you see a text refers to some nuke war, you research by going to the orginal text, learning the language entirely, then translate some more. I never went to a text with a preformed notion on what to expect, its u guys who this, you expect a religious book to be just fantasy, you come to it with this preformed notion, Why? because your background is probably christian, like most of the west, and we know there is plenty of fantasy in the bible, and i dont mean fantasy stories, i mean fantasy concepts. I dont discount every translation, all i say is they are translations, meaning the next best thing to the original, if this is case, then you have to stick to the one which more accurate to the original, but for poeple with christian backgrounds they find this hard comprehend, due the 100's of translations and versions of the bible. Therefore you accept that all translations are acceptable.

Quote to finish with....."Indian philosophers of the Vaisesika school were discussing atomic theory, speculating about heat being the cause of molecular change, and calculating the period of time taken by an atom to traverse its own space"

By Charles Berlitz

ROFLROFLROFL!!!!

The pentagon had already filled the janitorial position, stop being so bitter. I actually think you are 15 and just got into highschool. I have never seen an educated person type things like OMG! OmGooSes! LOLzors! Classic!
I'm pretty sure you were hunting for Waldo about 5 minutes before you were hunting for atlantis. Another thing, how are people being closed minded? You are just a little kid that wants attention. If you want attention go stand in traffic and tell people how you have found atlantis.

Didn't Plato's teacher tell him the story? Or how the story goes. Unless you believe that. :/

I'm starting to think it was based off a small island. I think it was called Cerec or something like that.

go for it dude! but when i first read your post i thought your were talking crap but only you would suffer if you lied. if you have lied (i'm not saying you have) it was a stpid thingto do and,,,,i'm just rambling on now. hope you telling the truth man. awesome!

Charles Berlitz? CHARLES BERLITZ?? He was a linguist. Let's have a look see at the books Charles wrote: Books by Berlitz

Among some of theses are: The Philadelphia Experiment - Project Invisibility (1979), The Roswell Incident (1980), Doomsday 1999 A.D. (1981),, Atlantis: The Lost Continent Revealed, Without a Trace: More Evidence from the Bermuda Triangle, Mysteries from forgotten worlds, The Roswell Incident, etc.

You are quoting a man who was firmly rooted in the world of anomalous phenomena. This is like quoting Pol Pot as an authority on why you should burn down your home city and move to the woods.



What does this have to do with Christianity? You are severely contradicting yourself here. Are you saying that people who believe in a book about a man who was born of a virgin mother, was the son of God, walked on water, turned water into wine, died and then came back to life 3 days later, and then ascended to heaven... that these people cannot comprehend fantastical ideas? Huh? Aren't you accepting all translations, or rather, the ones that back your theory? Show me a recent translation, WITH A PAPER TRAIL, that backs the nuclear war verses. And not that one that has been copied and pasted on every site. I wanna see a translation that is attributed to a living breathing person who can be traced.

First of all, we don't know if he really said that. That statement has him using words that weren't even around until 1937 at the earliest. Someone could have typed that up and attributed his name to it sometime in the last 5-10 years. Is he going to be able to refute saying it? Doubtfully.

Here is the page with the translation at sacred-texts.com.

Dude read my longer post, the one for Harte, has bit more depth to it. How ever, i will get you the sources in good time. I only give a quote charles Berlitz, at the end of my reply. I did not reference his all book or books.

Your second question.... My point about chritianity, and if your read my post properly or maybe i dint make it clear, i said i am not refering to the stories of fantasy, to me they not fantasy, stories of Jesus etc, virgin birth and miracles, coz i believe in God. I meant the other fantasy concepts in the bible, Like say gensis, how the universe and the world began, the flat earth etc...., catch my drift.... based on these concepts which have been shown as fantasy by modern established science, not theories. The fact they have been disproven numerous times, the west natuarally moved away from religious scripts and science, they dont mix together in the west. And poeple brought up as christians find it difficult to believe. Then you have no original form of the bible, the earliest is the greek translation, and which is closest to the original bible, but what followed was, 100's of transaltion and versions of the bible, making it accpetable to have your own version and translation which suits you, (not you directly). Therefore as a whole they find it easy to accept any translation or many translations.

The point is this, He is indian, he was quoted saying this, i will try and get the exact source etc for you. The reason, i send the post is to show, the translation u provided, the same guy accepts what i say, that a nuke war took place back then. A Clear contradiction is it not.

Thanks for the link, I shall now move to disprove this translation, may take a little time. Be patient.

A question has come up regarding how the inhabitants of India could have been familiar with Atlantis (being so far from Europe) and the problems the Atlanteans created for Europeans. It has even been suggested that Sri Lanka might be Atlantis. Such an hypothesis is unnecessary, the answer being very simple.


It should be realized that the Aryans of India who composed these writings were once part of the original Indo-European people who thousands of years earlier were located in the Danube Valley in Central Europe. From there migrations took place in all directions where they became known as Nordics, Kelts, Romans, Greeks, Medes, Persians and Indians. So during Atlantean times the Aryans who eventually committed these epics to writing were just as close to Atlantis as were the later historical Greeks and Romans. Some of them may have had to fight the Atlanteans. Linguists and Ethnologists are able to trace the Indo-Europeans back for 10,000 years to their original homeland in Central Europe.

Ancient warfare, is only a minute aspect of what the vast ancient hindu scriptures hold. it talks about an expanding universe, atomic energy, basically modern scientific phenomena....


I look forward to speaking to you lot when i come back with more evidence. So far though, not any of you have given any proof, that ancient civilisations did not have modern tech.... please send some evidence.

Yet your own quoted "expert" was the one that provided the very text that does not indicate a nuke.

Time to give it up or suffer the humiliating consequences.

You will not recieve this easy "kid glove" treatment from me again if you persist.


A hundred years ago they had no way of measuring radiation.

Also, Mohenjo-Daro is still being excavated today. As an Indian, you should have known that as well.

The rest is crapola. There are pictures online that show these excavations and the relics that have been found there. No melted sand or clay, no "epicenter" with leveled houses...etc.

Also, I'd like to point out that people live and thrive in Nagasaki and Hiroshima today. In fact, they did immediately after they were nuked.

Nuclear weapons cannot possibly leave an area "50 times" more radioactive than "the norm" thousands of years later!

Cannot possibly occur, therefore it has not occurred.

Now for the real treat....

You claim that Pratap Chandra Roy (apparently that's the correct spelling) is your source for that fraudulent bull about nuclear war, correct?

That seems a bit odd, in light of the following:


Source: from An Annotated Mahabharata Bibliography by Prof. P. Lal, published by Writer's Workshop, Calcutta (1967).
My emphasis.

Okay, Mr. "Expert because I'm from India," we can all see now that Roy's "translation" actually is Ganguli's translation.

Wanna pull some other dead indian out of your hiney and claim that you meant his translation?

I suggest you follow my advice - given in my previous post. You're running out of feet to stick in your mouth.

Harte

12 pages of nonsence.

I think I might start a thread about the moon made of cheese....for real. I have the proof, but first I need to tell someone else, not you people here.

Thats the first Ive heard of this... where did you hear of it?

The Land of Wind and Ghosts, as far as anyone else can tell.

--Jaylemurph

I tried to find a reliable source for this ancient nuke war and well I came across this.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

Good old reliable Pravda

This thread is heading to a flame war! Sooner or later will end closed :S

This thread seems to be getting rather long, very quickly.

Well Well, Kiddo.......

Mahenjdaro has not been touched since the early 20th century, the part of pakistan its in, is pretty remote and desert like, and guess what, they dont allow scientific digs or anything of the like near there or at the site (the pakistan govermant that is) - the only archeological evidence came before independence to india and pakistan, and its those finds which lead scientists of today to believe the place was nuked, and its not the only one around the world.

Oppenhiemer, said its the only nuke used in modern times, meaning there possible have been poeple in ancient time who have used such technology.

"A hundred years have passed since the excavations in Mohenjo-Daro. The MODERN analysis showed, the fragments of the ancient town had been melted with extremely high temperature – not less than 1,500 degrees centigrade. Researchers also found the strictly outlined epicenter, where all houses were leveled. Destructions lessened towards the outskirts. Dozens of skeletons were found in the area of Mohenjo-Daro – their radioactivity exceeded the norm almost 50 times."

Emphasis on modern analysis of the data........kiddo.......I aint afraid of your ignorance on this matter on any other.

As for the translation stuff.... I used the translation from pratap, us used it from Ganguli, Then i showed how ganguli has contradicted himself, by quoting he believes that the ancient had atomic tech.

Ganguli, strongly relates to ( Nilakantha's) commentry on the books, oh and guess what, there are many commentries too, do i need to elobrate on what a commentry is too.

"Now that the translation has been completed, there can be no longer any reason for withholding the name of the translator. The entire translation is practically the work of one hand." Cahru Chandra Mookherjee helped with portions of the Adi Parva nd Sabha Parvas'; "About four forms of the Sabha parva were done by Professor Krishna Kamal Bhattacharya".

From your article.....


But for argument sake.... lets say im with you, and we discredit prataps translation or publications, in which is the verse of nuke warfare in vivid detail, you claim, it s was actually ganguli who did the translation, then i ask you why did he change it from the nuke description to that other one we have seen.. Oh yeah guys i wold double check this too, whether the alleged accurate translation which does not refer to nukes, whether they are both the same verse or not. I will come to this at a later point my amatuers. The source of your article is P. Lal, who the F**k is he, they are not the same pratap you know. Plus thats something from a bibliography, i was ratehr hoping something better. But never mind. As it Mr P. Lal's opinion.

There is plenty of other verse which refer to an Iron Bolt of thunder from the skies, please explain what this refers to.


Aircrafts in Ancient india.... alsorts of other scientific phenomena too, let show a little.

Alexander Gorbovsky an expert at the Russian Munitions Agency has written:

“The Mahabharata - an ancient Indian epic compiled 3000 years ago - contains a reference to a terrible weapon. Regrettably, in our age of the atomic bomb, the description of this weapon exploding will not appear to be an exaggeration: '.... a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire (was) let off...'. That was how this weapon was perceived. The consequences of its use also evoke involuntary associations. '... This makes the bodies of the dead unidentifiable. ... The survivors lose their nails and hair, and their food becomes unfit for eating. For several subsequent years the Sun, the stars and the sky remain shrouded with clouds and bad weather'.

"This weapon was known as the Weapon of Brahma or the Flame of Indra......".

" In the Rig-Veda we shall have before us more real antiquity than in all the inscriptions of Egypt or Ninevah....the Veda is the oldest book in existence...."

Dick Teresi author and coauthor of several books about science and technology, including The God Particle. He is cofounder of Omni magazine and has written for Discover, The New York Times Magazine, and The Atlantic Monthly. He says

"Indian cosmologists, the first to estimate the age of the earth at more than 4 billion years. They came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories. India developed very early, enduring atomist theories of matter. Possibly Greek atomistic thought was influenced by India, via the Persian civilization."

The cycle of creation and destruction continues forever, manifested in the Hindu deity Shiva, Lord of the Dance, who holds the drum that sounds the universe’s creation in his right hand and the flame that, billions of years later, will destroy the universe in his left. Meanwhile Brahma is but one of untold numbers of other gods dreaming their own universes.

The 8.64 billion years that mark a full day-and-night cycle in Brahma’s life is about half the modern estimate for the age of the universe. The ancient Hindus believed that each Brahma day and each Brahma night lasted a kalpa, 4.32 billion years, with 72,000 kalpas equaling a Brahma century, 311,040 billion years in all. That the Hindus could conceive of the universe in terms of billions.

The similarities between Indian and modern cosmology do not seem accidental. Perhaps ideas of creation from nothing, or alternating cycles of creation and destruction are hardwired in the human psyche. Certainly Shiva’s percussive drumbeat suggests the sudden energetic impulse that could have propelled the big bang. And if, as some theorists have proposed, the big bang is merely the prelude to the big crunch and the universe is caught in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction, then ancient Indian cosmology is clearly cutting edge compared to the one-directional vision of the big bang. The infinite number of Hindu universes is currently called the many world hypothesis, which is no less undocumentable nor unthinkable.

Alan Watts, a professor, graduate school dean and research fellow of Harvard University, drew heavily on the insights of Vedanta. Watts became well known in the 1960s as a pioneer in bringing Eastern philosophy to the West. He wrote:

"To the philosophers of India, however, Relativity is no new discovery, just as the concept of light years is no matter for astonishment to people used to thinking of time in millions of kalpas, ( A kalpa is about 4,320,000 years). The fact that the wise men of India have not been concerned with technological applications of this knowledge arises from the circumstance that technology is but one of innumerable ways of applying it."

WANT MORE....

My age is posted in my profile. "Kiddo" I ain't (much to my chagrin.)
Other people here may be interested in reading what follows, though I realize you won't be.

Source
My emphasis.



So, you resort to lying?


Must have consulted a dictionary - you spelled "ignorance" correctly.

Not bad for an Indian that knows absolutely nothing about his own country's history.

Where is your source for these "radioactive samples," these "melted sands" etc.? As you see, I gave mine.

No such thing has ever been found anywhere in India (or anywhere else, for that matter.)

Regarding radiation, It's already been pointed out that the area is contaminated by [b]modern[/i] radioactive waste and improper storage and/or release of same.

Not only that, but there is no "norm" for radiation. There exist areas - some of them are paleontological digs - where the matrix (that's the surrounding rock and dirt - felt I needed to tell you that) is radioactive due to naturally occurring elements that are present.

There are dinosaur fossils that are radioactive enough for any paleontologist to need protection if he were to examine the actual fossils for long enough.

Typically, these people examine casts made of the fossils for this very reason.



Please don't. If you can't admit that Pratap Roy never translated the Mahabharata into English, then anything further you have to say is simply a waste of time and bandwidth.



This is true - his name was Ganguli.



You are simply an idiot. There exists no "Pratap translation" for us to discredit.

You either cannot, or you refuse to, read.



This, on the other hand, is quite true.

But apparently the great achievements of ancient India are not enough for you.


Others may, but I already know these things about India and it's rich and amazing history. Did you think I pulled the Ganguli information out of thin air?

I tried to tell you that there are people here (myself among them) that have actually looked long and hard at this (and many, many other) claim(s).

I thought you would be back with some kind of evidence?

What a surprise.

Harte

im educated (not as much as some) and i use OMG...thats all i agree with the rest of what you said........


Ozi. you and harte need to kiss and make up immediately. ya'll (mhm I said ya'll) are too intellegent to be so grrrrrrrrrr.

This kid didn't find atlantis. no one know if atlantis is real, I hope that it was and the atlantians were so intellegent that they built a water and pressure resistant cavity and sunk their own country to the furthest reaches of the ocean. created a way to bring in oxygen and artificial sunlight....because i need a vacation and i want to go there. any one know a good travel agent that deals in cruises to possibly fictional places?


BTW. I like to call melted sand...Glass.

I say "y'all" all the time my own self. I also say "my own self" all the time.

Note my geographical locale. Though not from Memphis, I didn't move south to get here.

But I don't agree with the rest of what you said....

The only reason I'm here is to provide the other view in opposition to the overabundance of ridiculous and uneducated parroting of some pseudoscientist's fraudulent ravings, which parroting is, in this thread, being administered by Ozi, an individual too lazy to find out something for "his own self..."

Harte

So you take the evidence of one scholar and i the other, i did accept that ganguli did the translation, but what you aint excepting is that, he then contradicted him self. Why?

Secondly, P.Lal, who is he ? And what authority did he have pratap, by just a givig a brief description of his childhood and sets that basis of his expertise of the man. I also pointed out from the same article that ganguli dint do the whole translation.

I provided academics quotes, check them out......You give me one site about mahenjdaro and and expect me accept everythign else you say. Ok i may have got it wrong, that there have been further digs there for about 100 yrs, but this was not deliberate lie as you claim, its a mistake. However, they closely controled by the pakistan goverment, and since then the last dig they have not gone there, instead he stays at harappa, where as mahenjdaro was a shri city of the empire, and therefore lots more to be found coz as one of the main seven cities, its was huge and was very sophisticated.

I gave you names of academic who have studied the scripts and have found plenty of references to modern science. i will get you the evidence for nuke war in mahenjdaro, just be patient. All in good time, I ambuilding my case against you synics. People like you dont look good and hard, they just look for refutations, from theird parties, i in india, speak to the scholars of the faith and the scripts, who is gonna know better, third parties, going only by translations or peeps that understand both the original and the translation.

Just becuase you provide a bibliography Written by some called P.Lal, you expect me to believe pratap dint do any translations, like i said before, if he has not, then why did ganguli change his stance, in his translation he indicated allegedly no nuke warfare, and then other hand says he believes there was, and not only just that, other phenemona too.

Please Explain.

Im off now, but will be back with more evidence for you Harte Me Kiddo.... (u dont like it when i call you this, then do not apply the same to me)

Its funny how you call anyone else with a different outlook psuedoscientists. You now why, because they dont conform to the evolutionary time line and look beyond the narrow mindedness of mainstream scientists, who cannot look beyond evolution, hence why they are mainstream, trying to prove a false theory by all means possible, even rejecting good evidence if they saw it, which would indicate man has been here for alonger time than we are taught in our schools and universities.

Actually, "y'all" and "his own self" are really, really old in the English language, and it's only fairly recently (in terms of the language itself) they've begun to take heat.
Furthermore, "y'all" performs an important grammatical function, distinguishing the second person singular and plural in a way plain "you" doesn't.

This is all quite separate from "leet"; I have more sense than to really vent my spleen about that.



Speaking of venting spleen -- can you get over this bizarre and useless conflation of evolution and history? The only place they're related is in the inside of your skull, and by repeating it all you do is advertise in bright neon colours that you don't understand either. I mean, clearly from your attacks on mainstream (Western, at least) history you know next to nothing about the field, but it does you no good to emphasize the fact.

/rant

--Jaylemurph

Well I believe you are here to put your 2 cents in just like every one else is...including me...and maybe we should be trying to learn from each other instead of being hoity-toity with our im-so-above-you're-train-of-thought-it-makes-me-laugh way of addressing other peoples opinions. I get heated about some things, but not because I think I have all the answers....I am looking for the answers too and it would help if the people with the education to answer them or assist me in thinking about a subject in a new light could maybe get off their high horses for a bit and join us lil people in the mud for a while

get published or teach a class but PLEASE realize that if you are going toe to toe with him you are in the same class....a heavy weight is a heavy weight.

no one has the time to read ALL the material on every subject anyway out there anyway.

No problem.

Your quote from Rense.com (or one of the other billion websites with the same exact verbiage) is making an invalid claim.

It says a lot about you that you would believe this right off the bat - even as far as to pretend you know something about the subject when all you "know" is what you read at some idiotic and, yes, pseudoscientific webpage. And all without even making the feeblest attempt at finding out for "your own self" (as I said earlier.)

IOW, Ganguli never, ever said what your "quote" claims he said.

And, you will never, ever find (or provide) any evidence that he did.


Actually, I don't mind. Just wanted to point out that I hardly qualify for the moniker.

Harte

Oh Geez, here we go again...

How does evolution apply here?

Did you go to the posts I linked that I wrote last summer?

I think I've read all there is to read about this particular claim.

The claim itself is decades old, and far more intelligent people that Ozi have foundered while trying to support it.

But you are right in that I don't know everything. But I do know that Ozi is no heavyweight. He has yet to put out one original idea on this subject, a fact that may not be apparent to you if you haven't looked into the claim.

I suggest you google some of his phrases. You'll see he's quoting other people without using the quote function and without providing a reference.

Not really a big deal though. The hash he's slinging has already been smeared - word-for-word - all across the entire internet. It's not like he's plagiarizing or anything. I mean, It's almost impossible to find the original source, though I have - I think I gave this info in my post on this last summer.

Also, I think the original source appears under the title at the Rense.com version of this fairy tale.

It is an obscure magazine called the "World Island Review." Or, it would be this magazine if the magazine ever even existed at all, a fact I am unable to establish.

Harte

Why do you keep quoting Oppenhiemer as an expert on this matter? At what point did he excavate Mohenjo-Daro? You have not provided any links to any of your posts, and some of them are taken word-for-word from other sites. I'm still waiting on that 'modern translation' that is attributed to a living person who can be traced...