Thank you!

I reckon you should go to a university or a big ancient history museum...somewhere which people who work there nunderstand and can understand your views.

I wish you the best of luck! look forward to seeing you on the telly!!

loves xx

Ok let me get a few things straight here -- Harte, your right you provide source and reference. I will too, but in good time because not all of it is from the interenet.....

Secondly....the evolution thing. The reason i keep putting this in to the mix is because, without realising most of you basing your idea of modern mans history based on this theory. Evolution says that modern man has been around for about 10,000 years. Before then you had neandrothols (i dunno how to spell it of top ofmy head) etc. Suggesting that all man has been capable of before then was cave drawings and fire, minor sh** basiclly. But when your so called pseudoscientists suggest otherwise, its immediately rejected, like you guys do, oh no its impossible man was never that advanced, we only got where we are over about 10,000 yrs or more. Well with out realising the only reason most of you do this, is because you have the basis of evolution embedded in your minds and thus its timeline. It has everything to do with it, this damn theory perpetuates all the frustrations, because its not established fact and based on a theory, we make the basis of our history on this too. Give me book, one place, where anything to do with evolution is fact. or a book which says evolution fact not theory. There isn't one. So what im saying is, that your historical time lines are based on this theory, and you dont even realise it, due this theory, it indirectly suggests that tech has moved in a linear direction, on what basis and what proof.

Ok now for Oppenhiemer, this guys makes the nuke, then tests and call himself death, the destroyer of all words, this is direct quote from ancient vedas. He then further in talk, when anwsering a question, says this is the first nuke tested in modern time- not the first nuke ever, etc. Why? Some of his credibility and stature, says the first one in modern time, well what may he be suggesting, that there have been tests on older times, more ancient times etc. YOU DECIDE!

An ancient aircrafts, another verse from the scripts with ref:

O royal skilled engineer, construct sea-boats, propelled on water by our experts, and airplanes, moving and flying upward, after the clouds that reside in the mid-region, that fly as the boats move on the sea, that fly high over and below the watery clouds. Be thou, thereby, prosperous in this world created by the Omnipresent God, and flier in both air and lightening." Yajur Veda, 10.19)

As for the quote from Ganguli, where he contradicts his alleged translation of the alleged verse, I am on it, i can give you the website i got it from anther geocite, but no....Why? because i am tracing down theexact source for the quote and as soon as i have it, i shall present it.

Nowone thing you are all avoiding, is this.... regardless of what translation you read or commentary, why does it keep mentioning this Iron Bolt Of Thunder from the skies.....what is this Iron bolt..... Please enlighten.......

I can provide links to the websites which refer to hindu scriptures and they are hindu websites, like i said go to the source if yu wanna know and the poeple of that faith, rather than just sticking to third parties.... but what difference wil this make, because at the end of the day, they use the same translations the only difference is they have many philisophers, scientists, historians, etc, quoting on the scripts, nuke warfare and other phenomena. As soon as i give the link, you then do a search to find some direct refutation to ridicule, and most of you wont even read the what the site has to say.

"European scholarship regards human civilization as a recent progression starting yesterday with the Fiji islander, and ending today with Rockefeller, conceiving ancient culture as necessarily half savage culture." It is a superstition of modern thought that the march of knowledge has always been linear." "Our vision of "prehistory" is terribly inadequate. We have not yet rid our minds from the hold of a one-and-only God or one-and-only Book, and now a one-and-only Science."

~ wrote Shri Aurobindo Ghosh (1872-1950) most original philosopher of modern India.

Flying vehicles.....

In the Ramayana both the words "Vimana" and "Ratha" have been used:

Kamagam ratham asthaya...nadanadipatim (3. 35. 6-7). He boarded the aerial vehicle with Khara which was decorated with jewels and the faces of demons and it moved with noise resembling the sonorous clouds.

You may go to your desired place after enticing Sita and I shall bring her to Lanka by air.. So Ravana and Maricha boarded the aerial vehicle resembling a palace (Vimana) from that hermitage.

Then the demoness brought the Puspaka aerial vehicle and placed Sita on it by bringing her from the Ashoka forest and she was made to see the battle field with Trijata.

This aerial vehicle marked with Swan soared into the sky with loud noise.

Reference to Flying vehicles as Vimana occur in the Mahabharata in about 41 places of which the air attack of Salva on Krisna's capital Dwaraka deserve special notice. The Asura king Salva had an aerial flying machine known as Saubha-pura in which he came to attack Dwaraka. He began to shower hails, and missiles from the sky. As Krishna chased him he went near the sea and landed in the high seas. Then he came back again with his flying machine and gave a tough fight to Krishna staying about one Krosa (about 4,000 ft) above the ground level. Krishna at last threw a powerful ground-to-air weapon which hit the plane in the middle and broke it into pieces. The damaged flying machine fell into the seas. This vivid description of the air attack occurs in the Bhagavata also. We also come across the following references to missiles, armaments, sophisticated war-machines and mechanical contrivances as well as to Vimanas in Mahabharata.

" An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka, conveys many people to the capital of Ayodhya. The sky is full of stupendous flying-machines, dark as night,but picked out by lights with a yellowish glare."

- Mahavira of Bhavabhuti (A Jain text of the eighth century culled from older texts and traditions)

"The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the Indian texts, describe vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the ‘ahnihotra-vimana’ with two engines, the ‘elephant-vimana’ with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals."

Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashesthe entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.

It is important to note, that these kinds of records are not isolated. They can be cross-correlated with similar reports in other ancient civilizations.

Needing more.....Be bck soon

Like I said, non-sense like this only high-lights you don't know beans about history or biology.

History only goes back to the advent of writing. It stops (or rather begins) there. We don't need evolutionary biology to prove -- or have anything to do with -- history up to that point.
The realm of pre-History goes back much further, but it is attested to all the way by actual artifacts and remains. Again, since this all deals with modern human, no evolution is needed.

You see (actually, maybe you don't), the study of history existed well before Darwin postulated evolution. History as a study pre-dates Darwin by thousands of years, in fact. Since you quote pre-nuclear-bomb people quoting how mushroom clouds look like, you may not grasp the point, but things created/discovered/fabricated cannot retroactively influence older things.

And -- just by the way -- evolutionary theory only says things become different, not better, so the concept of evolutionary linearity you throw out (again) only shows your fundamental misunderstanding of what evolution /is/. Until you understand it (and history) better, maybe you ought not to criticise it.

--Jaylemurph

I don't think the OP is coming back, I think he may have bitten off more than he can chew.
Bummer, I really wanted to hear his hypothesis.

Perhaps this is a lesson learned to be more prepared when posting exciting new discoveries.

I don't know if its just me, but I hate it when people post that they have something of interest and just dangle a carrot (made of plastic).
Perhaps this thread should be closed and we will know better the next time UtahRaptor posts again.

I thought the oldest fossil evidence for anatomically modern humans is about 130,000 years old in Africa... can you supply a link to this 10,000 years claim? just wondering

BTW, theres archaeological evidence of the Jomon in Japan dating back to about 14,000 BC, theres Jomon pottery older than 10,000 years...

I've seen estimations of 130,000 to 200,000 (wikipedia) We only have perhaps 6,000 years of that as recorded history.

Imagine if suddenly we were wiped out as a race today, most of our structures and recored history would be lost in a matter of 500 years mainly because our stuff is disposable and short-lived (paper/plastics, Steel/Iron). If (not saying I believe in former ancient advanced humans, but not dismissing the notion totally) there was an advanced race of ancient earth that wiped itself out, they too could have been a plastic/paper disposable society where much of its structure dissolved as nature overtook their remains. All that would remain would be the current ancient structures of stone in the desert regions. Our concrete/glass/steel structures would crumble and succumb to the elements quickly.
Fossils are a rare thing, made from rare circumstances. There is nothing physically evident for or against the idea. Only ancient remembering through Indian scriptures indicate there was rumored to be advanced humans, as well as stories from ancient Greek philosophers, as well as physical evidence of sunken civilizations all over the world.

Its a lot of years (at least 120,000+) unaccounted and if anatomically Modern man is possessing the intelligence we have today, then there should be at least a possibility that the ancient writings could be correct in their tales of flying machines and such, after all, we know it is possible today, as we live it today.

I understand where you're coming from, but we DO find stone tools and weapons... I doubt most of our structures would be gone in 500 years, a big city like New York or Chicago would still be recognizable as 'city's', my homes basement walls are 88 years old and still in great shape... heck, I think our toilets would remain for tens of thousands of years at least, the relatively 'flimsy' Jomon pottery managed to survive for over 10,000 years...

you don't really think these unknown civilizations could build flying machines and atom bombs, but couldn't make ceramics... do you?

I understand what your saying, but what u dont understand is this.....History as we know it only dates back to first writing we have, for example the sumerians, well even the sumerians were aware of things which showed they were a head of their time. However, the jump from cavemen and hunter gather, so a sophisticated speaking writing civilisation, was quite drastic. History shows us that man has been sophisticated and civilised for a short term, and evolution theory on the other hand shows that modern man has only been around roughly the same time. There is a correlation there, which suggests that historian do not show the same emphasis on finding which pre-date sumeria or the evloutionary timeline.

If you want to discuss evolution theory on a seperate post, we ca do that, and i will destroy the theory, scientifically. i know that the study of history existed before darwinism, and if you see before his theory, there was a prevailing belief that there were once advanced civilisations. Only in advent of the evolution theory did all this change and as a result and as a result mainstream modern historian do what they can to back it up. Any alternative historian is simple seen as a nutter, by sheltered minds like you....

And for good reason. Occam's razor usually is the best.

The Secret History of Homo Sapiens
The most interesting and significant fact that nullifies the very basis of the imaginary family tree of evolutionary theory is the unexpectedly ancient history of modern man. Paleoanthropological findings reveal that Homo sapiens people who looked exactly like us were living as long as 1 million years ago.
It was Louis Leakey, the famous evolutionist paleoanthropologist, who discovered the first findings on this subject. In 1932, in the Kanjera region around Lake Victoria in Kenya, Leakey found several fossils that belonged to the Middle Pleistocene and that were no different from modern man. However, the Middle Pleistocene was a million years ago. Since these discoveries turned the evolutionary family tree upside down, they were dismissed by some evolutionist paleoanthropologists. Yet Leakey always contended that his estimates were correct.
Just when this controversy was about to be forgotten, a fossil unearthed in Spain in 1995 revealed in a very remarkable way that the history of Homo sapiens was much older than had been assumed. The fossil in question was uncovered in a cave called Gran Dolina in the Atapuerca region of Spain by three Spanish paleoanthropologists from the University of Madrid. The fossil revealed the face of an 11-year-old boy who looked entirely like modern man. Yet, it had been 800,000 years since the child died. Discover magazine covered the story in great detail in its December 1997 issue.
This fossil even shook the convictions of Juan Luis Arsuaga Ferreras, who lead the Gran Dolina excavation. Ferreras said:
We expected something big, something large, something inflated-you know, something primitive. Our expectation of an 800,000-year-old boy was something like Turkana Boy. And what we found was a totally modern face.... To me this is most spectacular-these are the kinds of things that shake you. Finding something totally unexpected like that. Not finding fossils; finding fossils is unexpected too, and it's okay. But the most spectacular thing is finding something you thought belonged to the present, in the past. It's like finding something like-like a tape recorder in Gran Dolina. That would be very surprising. We don't expect cassettes and tape recorders in the Lower Pleistocene. Finding a modern face 800,000 years ago-it's the same thing. We were very surprised when we saw it.
The fossil highlighted the fact that the history of Homo sapiens had to be extended back to 800,000 years ago. After recovering from the initial shock, the evolutionists who discovered the fossil decided that it belonged to a different species, because according to the evolutionary family tree, Homo sapiens did not live 800,000 years ago. Therefore, they made up an imaginary species called "Homo antecessor" and included the Atapuerca skull under this classification.


A Hut 1.7 Million Years Old

There have been many findings demonstrating that Homo sapiens dates back even earlier than 800,000 years. One of them is a discovery by Louis Leakey in the early 1970s in Olduvai Gorge. Here, in the Bed II layer, Leakey discovered that Australopithecus, Homo Habilis and Homo erectus species had co-existed at the same time. What is even more interesting was a structure Leakey found in the same layer (Bed II). Here, he found the remains of a stone hut. The unusual aspect of the event was that this construction, which is still used in some parts of Africa, could only have been built by Homo sapiens! So, according to Leakey's findings, Australopithecus, Homo habilis, Homo erectus and modern man must have co-existed approximately 1.7 million years ago. This discovery must surely invalidate the evolutionary theory that claims that modern men evolved from ape-like species such as Australopithecus.

This is all well and good, but you are missing the point that this is all OPINION. None of what they say PROVES anything. You could provide me with a thousand quotes from a thousand people who say that man was once technologically advanced, but that proves nothing. Until they dig up a Vimana, it's just a theory, and a shaky one at that.

Trust me when I say that it would be awesome to discover an ancient technologically superior race. But until that day comes, I think the Romans were as advanced as you are going to find.

Why can't you accept that the Vedas may have been fiction? Wasn't man's need for escape from reality or entertainment just as great as it is today? If archaeologists dig up our remains in 5000 years, they will find an entire host of books and other media. Are they to believe that all of our science fiction was real? That we had a Star Fleet academy, and the Enterprise was boldly going where no man had gone before?

*edited for a typo and a paragraph.

I hope that that's not true (that he knowingly obstructed facts) because there is nothing further from science than false claims to prove a theorem

The difference between star trek is that, the writer is deliberately taking you a fictional account, religious texts on the other hand claim to be either of divine origin well in all cases they claim this, but also talk about historical accounts etc. The marbharat is an historical epic account, i dont believe all of it to be true, there in lies some fiction, but to talk about a fictional nuke going off and writing whole instruction manual on how to fly and prepare a vimana are different cases altogether. They are not written in parables, but rather like a modern instruction manual, albeit in Sanskrit.

As for opinion, I agree that History is opinion, sometimes you have evidence which is a primary source, and most of the time its a secondary source or even third party source, however, to say for example, that historian who claim that advanced ancient civilisations existed are wrong just because the opposing opinion say so or vica versa, both need to provide evidence, mine is largely from the hindu scripts, because they are some of the oldest know to man today.

The vedas, are deeply idealogical, spiritual books, but the are vast in number and not all are a like, like i said some are simply manuals and some simple descriptions of events that took place. Just like any today civilisations would record and observe whats around them and refer to types of technology aviable etc, the same applies here.

whoops posted same post twice

Thats no all they have lied about, there loads of evidence of fabrication and blatent lying by the scientific community, who sticks to this theory.

this isn't really a secret... these weren't Homo sapiens sapiens...

LINK -> Homo antecessor

Well, you seem to think it was "things ahead of their times", usually by a bizarre combination of willful distortion of facts and in-the-face-of-common-sense literalism common to the pseudo-historian.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; sometimes a story about a god is just a story about a god. And not real. You still have yet to have a riposte for the underlying question here: once you start taking fiction as reality, where do you stop? Will you join me on a quest for Hogwarts?



There is no difference between a caveman and a hunter-gather: perhaps you mean between an agricultural society and a hunter-gather one? If so, there are several places in the world that show the transition from one to the other (like Jericho and sites in the Balkans) that /prove/ it wasn't a giant, inexplicable leap forward.



No matter how many times you say it, and despite how much you really, really believe it in your heart of hearts, there is not a connexion between history and evolution.
You grammar is getting a little fuzzy here, so your point isn't quite cogent.



You'll destroy it? Un-huh. Pull the other one. It's got bells on.
A child can destroy a tower of blocks, too, but that doesn't mean he understands the principles of architecture that he used to build it.

And what "prevailing belief in once-advanced civilisations" were there?

My mind isn't sheltered, Ozi. Unlike you, I actually know something about history. I certainly don't go around dismantling theories and criticizing fields I have but the meagerest conception of. The best you have done so far is parrot other pseudo-historical websites that quote people who either didn't exist or existed well before the things they're quoted as describing. Not only do you not know what you're talking about and can't throw down /any/ hard evidence for it, you apparently lack the creativity to come up with your own brand of poppycock.

--Jaylemurph

As for the ancient Hindu scriptures, they are available online at Sacred Texts: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm

You can Google search the site. Personally, I haven't found anything about flying machines called vimanas or the famous "incandescent column," but I haven't searched for all these claims.

P.S. The "incandescent column" quote does exist on the site. Not among the Hindu scriptures, though, but in the UFO area. (Where, without anything to back up the claim, it is said to come from the Mahabharata...)

don't tell anybody first off .. if you do, they will say junk like thanks.. etc.. you probly wont even get any credit.. just take some ruins first if your gonna then if they brain-wash you you still have the ruins and might remember.. lol.. but very cool, you should probly get a underwater camera or something.

I'll discuss it with you. I'd definitly like to see this Earth-shattering scientific evidence against evolution that you seem to have discovered!

I challenge you to give a link to any mahabharata text site to show the above mentioned crap?

Sorry, but you've already been beaten to it . Scientists and officials are already aware that the line of water over the island of Atlantis is receding, and has, in fact, being doing so for a while. My sister prepared a presentation for it in, like, 5th grade O_o (9 years ago).

Wait, woah, woah.

You guys do realize that the island of Atlantis is just a regular island that was covered by an unusually lare tsunami, right?

Iceland? Greenland?

Well, you would have add "As far as we know". . .because any information we have today on anything isn't necessarily 100% true. People seem to believe that just because we are so "advanced" that we can't be wrong. We could be completely wrong about continential drift, and just don't know it. Hundreds of years from now (if we haven't blown ourselves up) our descendents might be laughing at some of the things that we hold as pure fact, just like we do to people in the past. We aren't infallible. That's why I don't understand hardcore skeptics. You can't learn ANYTHING if you don't stray out of the common scientific knowledge every now and then. Who knows, this person may be BS-ing us, but geez, the first thing some of you suggest is "close this down and ban them"! That's just a horrible mentality. If anything, it got everyone talking and some people learned new things. You can only put so much faith in modern science, because, like I said, in a century or so, our science will be dated and we'll be being laughed at. We don't understand EVERYTHING. Alot of things that we THINK we understand will be disproven or re-vamped, or what have you. You have to have a little imagination in order to think outside the box and discover new things. If we all stuck with what we already knew and already held true, then we would never learn anything new. Think about all the theories and "facts" that have been disproven. Even recently! And alot of you act like everything a scientist says is written on stone! Alot of it is theoretical, yet when something gets published in a scientific journal or something, we believe nothing can dispute it. When someone comes along with a different view point, they are often criticized and laughed at. . .yet, its often these people that are able to see things that others had ignored or overlooked, and they are the ones that truly advance society.

My uncle was a historian that taught at a noted university, and he believed that the existence of Atlantis was possible. I suppose he's just one of the "crazies" though, right? I don't even know if I believe in it. I just believe in the POSSIBILITY that it may have.


And Utah, I graduated high school when I was 16 (would have been 14, but my mom wouldn't let me skip any more grades), so I sympathize with having to deal with people that don't understand the way you think, if you are being honest. No offense if you are, its just that I don't really trust too many people on the internet either. . .I was going to post my theory on the relationship between certain forms of energy their connections with supernatural events and theories, such as alternate dimensions. . because I was going to right a paper about it. . .but this sort of scared me off. I'm afraid someone would try to "ban" me or something. I also believe that if I thought that I had stumbled across something truly legitimate, I wouldn't just post it on a website. I'd make sure I had gone through the proper means of documenting everything and notifying the right people. Utah did just ask who to go to. We took it upon ourselves to mean that they were going to disclose everything. And I certainly wouldn't disclose anything to a group of people who bash me before I'm even able to contact someone with some credabilities to verify my theories.

I have also heard theories that our knowledge of evolution is flawed. I have also heard of archeaologists that have found things that seem to point to some of these ancient cultures having batteries and even things resembling electric lights. These things do not fit in with the common knowledge that we have of these cultures. Of course, the information is out there to anyone that knows or cares where to find it, papers written by archaeologists, pictures of their findings, and plenty more. I could get into a whole debate about it, but I'm too tired and ready to go to bed. And, just to note, I'm going to school to become a scientist, and if I had the mindset of some of you, I'd be doomed. And, my god, stop calling people ignorant just because they believe something different than you. Geez. . .There's a difference between constructive criticism and just plain old hard-headed "No one's right but me" crap. I get so sick of people arguing meanly. You can debate, but refrain from name calling. If anyone wants me to post links to sites you can go to to find this stuff (on odd "out of place" objects discovered by archaeologists), I'll do it next time I'm on here, if I can find the stuff on the internet because *shocker* I did research that involved actual documents, not the internet. lol. it's such a rarity these days, I had to give myself credit. Soooooo ready to go to bed now. . . .

If you truly believe in something, the opinions of anonymous strangers on a message board forum should have little bearing on that belief. I make no apologies or excuses for my beliefs, and neither should you. As I said far earlier in this thread, if these posts are enough to crack the armor of your skin before you've even revealed your theory to a larger professional audience... you ain't seen nothin' yet. Bold new ideas are bound to be met with the vilest criticism. So strap on your shield and shake off the blows, or remain in the shadows were you are safe from the 'harsh words' of skeptics.

this has been one of the most entertaining posts I've read on these (Crackpot evolution theories, Nuclear war in india, flying machines) forums and I have to say that some of the stuff I read was quite intresting and I learned some new things thanks to harte and a few others. Ozi's crazy posts really made this thing shine though and I for one can't wait to see what this person has to say next.

I believe that maybe Plato wasn't talking about such an advanced civilization, maybe he was talking about an island that was destroyed by a volcano and people over the years added new things to this.

Stellar, this is not the place for the discussion on evolution, set up a post and i will meet you there mate.....

before we discuss it, i give you challenge, find me one piece of literature, which says evolution FActs, not theory....and i will destroy the thoery, on fossils records, fabricated evidence, on a molecular level, mathamatically etc.

Jay,,,,You know very well, that history cannot account for unexplicable leap of mankind from the darkness of being hunter gatherers, to the sophistication of Sumeria. What happened in between. Infact to back this gap up, evolutionists, suggested, that during this period, evloution excelled at a higher speed, which is a notion to be rediculed on its own. Whether you like it or not, history taught today, fits in to the frame work of the evolutionary timeline. But what i love about you jay and harte, is you hustle poeple, then when you get the opportunity, you destroy them and their beliefs and their theories, if you i were you, i would step back and think to yourself, maybe its you who is being hustled instead. You say have no meagre concpet of evolution or history.Lol.

Well lets put me to the test.... if you believe in Evolution, lets setup a another post, and then watch how destroy it, piece by piece, Hell i will even prove it that Darwin dint believe in it.

You think that the hindu scriptures, are all full of fantasy in its entirety, this actually shows how very little you know about them, and infact you base your prejudice on it, due to your likely christian back ground, and your rejection of that faith and its model of god etc, means that, you will automatically reject any other form of religious scripture. Just like today, mans actions, everythign about us is basically recorded literally, this simple a natural process by which human preserve their time and encapsulate their enviroment and life. This is simply what happened with ancient civilisations, and the indian rama empire is one of the oldest and advanced. Luckly the majority of its empire was land locked therefore its sites and literature stayed intact, this cannot be said for mu or atlantis. most of the hindu scriptures are records of events that took place, only the really old texts such as veda themselves operate on a spiritual level.

SUDIF.....anwser to your question of the incandescent column of smoke, is from Pratap Chandra Roys, publication of the texts, and it has been established that Ganguli actually did the transaltion and then contradicted himself by confirming that he believed in a nuke war in iraq. The translation you read on Sacred texts.com is done by this fella.....

DA VERMINATOR.......For you...

In the Ramayana both the words "Vimana" and "Ratha" have been used:

Kamagam ratham asthaya...nadanadipatim (3. 35. 6-7). He boarded the aerial vehicle with Khara which was decorated with jewels and the faces of demons and it moved with noise resembling the sonorous clouds.

You may go to your desired place after enticing Sita and I shall bring her to Lanka by air.. So Ravana and Maricha boarded the aerial vehicle resembling a palace (Vimana) from that hermitage.

Then the demoness brought the Puspaka aerial vehicle and placed Sita on it by bringing her from the Ashoka forest and she was made to see the battle field with Trijata.

This aerial vehicle marked with Swan soared into the sky with loud noise.

Reference to Flying vehicles as Vimana occur in the Mahabharata in about 41 places of which the air attack of Salva on Krisna's capital Dwaraka deserve special notice

THIS LAST ONE IS ABOUT INTERSTELLAR SPCAE TRAVEL... AND RAY GUNS....

"One time while King Citaketu was traveling in outer space on a brilliantly effulgent airplane given to him by Lord Vishnu, he saw Lord Siva..." "The arrows released by Lord Siva appeared like fiery beams emanating from the sun globe and covered the three residential airplanes, which could then no longer be seen."

Srimad Bhagavatam, Sixth Canto, Part 3.



THAT';S JUST A TASTER FOR YOU MATE......I HOPE YOU APPRECIATE IM DOING MY BEST TO ANWSER YOU ALL.....



lAST POINT IS FOR STELLAR....EVOLUTION IS A DECIETFUL THEORY.....NOT FACT....PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE SHOCKED.

So now your powers include mind reading? I don't think there /is/ "an inexplicable link"; I therefore don't think history need explain it.



No, they don't. I dare you to find an evolutionary biologist to back that claim up. I mean, I know you're not into finding anything to back up what you say -- god know, cut and paste jobs are much easier for the armchair... whatever it is you style yourself as (historian? anthropologist? archeaologist? evolutionary biologist?)
Again, you seem not to understand that modern humans had evolved by this point and haven't changed since. And I'm not sure why an evolutionary biologist needs to be used to explain purely anthropological changes.



You're the one trying to sell the hokum that all science and history, from the beginning, is wrong to anyone who'll listen. I'm trying to point out your gross misunderstandings of established academic fields you feel the need to mis-cite. You've claimed, after all, the Galileo was executed (he wasn't), that modern human only date back 10,000 years and cited verses out of Indian holy texts that don't exist.
I'd say at the very least your understanding of history and historical principles is unique.



Based on your knowledge of history, I just don't think it'd be sporting. Besides, I'm a historian, not a scientist. There are plenty of other people here ready and willing to discuss evolution with you.



I'm not Christian, so your argument is moot. If you're seriously alleging that any or all religious texts are literally true, there's no point in discussion with someone shent totally from reality.
If you only believe part them are true, then you still need to respond to the Hogwarts question.

--Jaylemurph

Done and done.



What do you mean? A piece of litterature that calls evolution fact? I will do no such thing, because I accept that evolution is a theory.

So if you accept its theory, then why is it taught as fact and accepted as so....

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[a
ttachment=41108:118.jpg]quote name='jaylemurph' post='2027884' date='Dec 9 2007, 05:37 PM']So now your powers include mind reading? I don't think there /is/ "an inexplicable link"; I therefore don't think history need explain it.



No, they don't. I dare you to find an evolutionary biologist to back that claim up. I mean, I know you're not into finding anything to back up what you say -- god know, cut and paste jobs are much easier for the armchair... whatever it is you style yourself as (historian? anthropologist? archeaologist? evolutionary biologist?)
Again, you seem not to understand that modern humans had evolved by this point and haven't changed since. And I'm not sure why an evolutionary biologist needs to be used to explain purely anthropological changes.



You're the one trying to sell the hokum that all science and history, from the beginning, is wrong to anyone who'll listen. I'm trying to point out your gross misunderstandings of established academic fields you feel the need to mis-cite. You've claimed, after all, the Galileo was executed (he wasn't), that modern human only date back 10,000 years and cited verses out of Indian holy texts that don't exist.
I'd say at the very least your understanding of history and historical principles is unique.



Based on your knowledge of history, I just don't think it'd be sporting. Besides, I'm a historian, not a scientist. There are plenty of other people here ready and willing to discuss evolution with you.


I'm not Christian, so your argument is moot. If you're seriously alleging that any or all religious texts are literally true, there's no point in discussion with someone shent totally from reality.
If you only believe part them are true, then you still need to respond to the Hogwarts question.

--Jaylemurph[/quote]



For your convenience i have attached some pictures of archelogical evidence, which evolutionist can explain and neither can you historian, with your evolutionary timeline.

Below are descriptions of the artifacts.



"The pestle and mortar pictured here were discovered in 1877 in an ancient river bed under Table Mountain. The river bed is at least 33 million years old, proving that human beings have always lived human lives.

This fossilized shoe sole was found in a 213-million-year-old rock. Millions of years ago, people were wearing shoes, and doubtless had clothing, and enjoyed a culinary culture and rich social relationships. The only known photograph of this fossil was published in a New York newspaper in 1922. Discoveries like this, which refute the claim of the evolution of human history, are either concealed or ignored by evolutionists.

A shape resembling a human face has been engraved on this 3-million-year-old piece of flint. It’s very difficult to make such regular holes in flint, and special metal tools are needed for the purpose. It is impossible for this to have been done under very primitive conditions, of the kind evolutionists suggest. "


"This metal sphere is just one of several hundred in one stratum in South Africa that is estimated to date back millions of years. The carefully shaped grooves that they contain cannot be the results of any natural phenomenon. This discovery shows that metal has been used since the very earliest times, and that for millions of years, humans have possessed the technology to make fine grooves in metal."

"In 1912, two employees of the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma made an astonishing discovery as they were loading coal. They came upon a solid chunk of coal which was too large to use, so one of the employees broke it up. When he did so, he found an iron pot inside it. When it was removed, the outline or mold of the pot could be seen in a piece of the coal. After examining the coal, many experts stated that the pot had to be between 300 and 325 million years old. This finding cannot be accounted for by evolutionists, who maintain that the use of iron began in around 1,200 BCE."

YOU CAN''T CARVE STONE WITH STONE



1 Stone inlays dating back to around 10,000 BCE
2 Pestles dating back to 11,000 BCE
3 An obsidian tool dating back to 10,000 BCE
4 Stone objects dating back to 11,000 BCE
5 Stonework dating back to between 9,000 and 10,000 BCE, with traces of malachite inlay
6 A socketed stone inlay resembling a nail, dating back to around 10,000 BCE
7 A hammer dating back to 10,000 BCE

On the contrary, archaeological discoveries show that the evolutionist claim that metal was unknown and not used in very ancient societies is untrue. Proof includes such findings as the remains of a 100,000-year-old metallic vessel, 2.8-billion-year-old metal spheres, an iron pot estimated to be 300 million years old, fragments of textiles on clay dated to 27,000 years ago, and traces of metals such as magnesium and platinum, successfully melted in Europe only a few hundred years ago, in remains dating back a thousand years. These scattered remains totally demolish the Rough Stone Age, Polished Stone Age, Bronze and Iron Age classifications. But a large part of these findings, after appearing in many scientific publications, have either been ignored by evolutionist scientists or else hidden away in museum basements. Fantastical evolutionist tales have been presented as the history of mankind, instead of the true facts


Even in the 21st century, many societies have superstitious beliefs. They worship false deities that can do them neither harm nor good. Here we see the chief of the Arhuaco Indians performing a ritual after an attack was made on them. The chief states that they call on the help of the ancient spirits of nature to appease the mountain. (Stephen Ferry, “Keepers of the World,” National Geographic, October 2004)



In one part of the world, people live in primitive environments, while on another continent, people live in comfortable skyscrapers and travel by airplane and luxurious cruise ships. Contrary to the claims of evolutionists, both advanced and “primitive” societies have always existed at the same periods, just as they do today.


True History Covered Up

Most of what we know about history we learned from books. Readers seldom doubt the contents of such books and accept their contents at face value. But especially when it comes to human history, very often the book presents a theory shaped by a concept that is no longer valid in the fields of biology, molecular biology, paleontology, genetics, biogenetics and anthropology. Along with the scientific collapse of the theory of evolution, our understanding of history based on it has also been invalidated.

The historian, Edward A. Freeman, discusses how our historical knowledge reflects the "facts":

For in all historical inquiries we are dealing with facts which themselves come within the control of human will and human caprice, and the evidence for which depends on the trustworthiness of human informants, who may either purposely deceive or unwittingly mislead. A man may lie; he may err. 6

So, how can we be certain that the history handed down to us is true?

First of all, we must make sure of the objective certainty of the facts presented to us by historians and archaeologists. As with most abstract concepts, the interpretation of history may mean different things to different people. The account of an event may vary according to the point of view of who relates it. And the interpretation of events is often quite different when recounted by individuals who did not witness them.

"History" is defined as the chronological record of past events. What gives meaning and significance to these events is how the historian presents them. For example, the history of a war may be influenced by the writer's opinion of whether the winning side was right or wrong. If he feels sympathy for either side, he will consider them to be the "champion of freedom," even if it invaded the other's territory and committed numerous atrocities. 7 For example, if you examine the history books of two nations hostile to each other, you'll see that each interprets the same events in a totally different way.

This is exactly what evolutionist historians and scientists have done today. With no concrete proofs to rely on, they present the so-called evolutionary history of human beings as a certain truth. They ignore the strong evidence that refutes their theory, interpret the evidence they have in terms of their prejudice, and present this theory, that some scientists adopted as an ideology, as a law.

A fossil discovered in Dmanisi, Georgia in 2005 once again revealed that the "evolution of human history" scenario in no way squares with the facts. According to evolutionists' unscientific claims, the first human beings lived like animals, with no family life or social order. However, a fossil skull belonging to an elderly human being, discovered by the paleoanthropologist David Lordkipanidze, showed that these claims are untrue.

The fossil discovered belonged to an older human who had only one tooth left. Scientists believe that the owner of the skull had other diseases as well as being nearly toothless. That this person survived well into old age, despite having so many infirmities, represents significant evidence that this individual was cared for and that others took an interest in others' welfare. Lordkipanidze says:

It is clear that this was a sick individual… We think this is a good argument that this individual had support from other members of the group. 8

Evolutionists maintain that human beings developed social cultural behavior at least 1.5 million years after the owner of this skull died. The fossil in question thus refutes evolutionist claims, showing that millions of years ago people felt compassion toward the sick, looked after and protected them. This discovery once again shows that humans have never lived like animals, but always like human beings.

(*) Evolutionists claim that Homo erectus was an intermediate species between apes and human beings in Man’s supposed evolution. The fact is, however, that there is no difference between the present-day human skeleton and that of Homo erectus, whose skeleton is fully upright, and fully human

Hey Jay, just to add to this, i know you hustle poeple on these forums, i read loads of your post and Harte, too. Maybe for once you are being hustled.......

Just another bit of evidence, this ones for you especially.....


Catal Huyuk, Regarded as the First City in History, Refutes Evolution

Generally agreed to date back to 9,000 BC, Catal Huyuk is described as one of the first cities known to history. Its first discoveries initiated great debates in the world of archaeology, proving the invalidity of evolutionist claims once again. The archaeologist James Mellart describes how the advanced state of the region quite amazed him:

The amount of technological specialization at Catal Huyuk is one of the striking features in this highly developed society which was obviously in the vanguard of Neolithic progress . . . How for example, did they polish a mirror of obsidian, a hard volcanic glass, without scratching it and how did they drill holes through stone beads (including obsidian), holes so small that no find modern steel needle can penetrate? When and where did they learn to smelt copper and lead . . . ? 16

These findings showed that the inhabitants of Catal Huyuk possessed an understanding of urban life, were capable of planning, design and calculation, and that their artistic understanding was far more advanced than had been thought. Professor Ian Hodder, current leader of the excavation team, states that these findings obtained totally invalidate evolutionist claims. He says that they have unearthed an astonishing art whose origins were unclear and notes that it was very difficult to account for the geographical position of Catal Huyuk—which, according to Hodder, has no direct geographical link to areas known to be settled at the time. The frescoes discovered are very advanced for the period. He says that after enquiring why and how these people attained such an elevated artistic level, the real question is how the group of people achieved such a stunning cultural success. So far as we know, he says, there was no evolution in the cultural development achieved at Catal Huyuk, where such major works of art emerged spontaneously and from nothing. 17

REf....16. http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/ 108catalhuyuk.html
17. Fenomen, 15 September 1997, p. 45

In 1995, the German archaeologist Hartmut Thieme discovered a number of wooden remains in Schöningen, Germany. These had been carefully crafted spears—in other words, the world's oldest known hunting tools. This discovery came as a great surprise to evolutionists, in whose view systematic hunting occurred about 40,000 years ago, when modern humans supposedly first appeared. To make the Clacton and Lehringen spears, which had been found earlier, fit with the evolutionary lie, they had been downgraded to digging-sticks or snow-probes. 18

Actually, however, the Schöningen spears went back a great deal further—to around 400,000 years ago. In addition, their age was so certain that Robin Dennell, one of the Sheffield University archaeologists whose paper was published in Nature magazine, stated that it was impossible to alter their date or to engage in false interpretation of them:

But the Schöningen discoveries are unambiguously spears: to regard them as snow-probes or digging-sticks is like claiming that power drills are paperweights. 19

One reason why these spears so surprised evolutionist scientists is the misconception that the supposedly primitive humans of that time lacked the ability to manufacture such objects. Yet these spears are the product of a mind able to calculate and plan in stages. The trunk of a spruce tree around 30 years old was used for each spear, and its tip was made from the base, where the wood is hardest. Each spear was designed in the same proportions and—just as with modern criteria—its center of gravity was one-third of the way back from the sharp end.

In the face of all this information, Robin Dennell comments:

These represent considerable investment of time and skill—in selecting an appropriate tree, in roughing out the design and in the final stages of shaping. In other words, these [so-called] hominids were not living within a spontaneous ‘five-minute culture', acting opportunistically in response to immediate situations. Rather, we see considerable depth of planning, sophistication of design, and patience in carving the wood, all of which have been attributed only to modern humans. 20

Thieme, who discovered the spears, says:

The use of sophisticated spears as early as the Middle Pleistocene may mean that many current theories on early human behaviour and culture must be revised. 21

As Hartmut Thieme and Robin Dennell state, Darwinist claims concerning the history of mankind do not reflect the facts. The truth is, mankind never underwent evolution. Backward civilizations and highly developed and advanced ones both existed in the past.

REf....Robin Dennell, "The World's Oldest Spears," Nature, Vol. 385, 27 Feb. 1997, p. 767.
19. Ibid.
20. Ibid., p. 768.
21. Hartmut Thieme, "Lower Palaeolithic Hunting Spears from Germany," Nature, Vol. 385, 27 Feb. 1997, p. 807

I love this.... I really do.

Want more, just let me know

Bring it into the appropriate thread.

It is dude.

I still reckon the inventors of Stargate SG1 must be onto something.

I know its a bit far fetched - the idea of having an advanced, 'perfect' civilisation located somewhere in a nearby solar system - but who knows? Perhaps they are all really 'perfect' people and follow all their laws to the letter. Or maybe...etc..etc

....well.....prove their ISN'T.

I'll believe Atlantis doesn't exist when you prove that it doesn't.

Alrighty then.....You make no sense wats so ever

It seems the simplest thing to do would be to search out archaeologists or geologists who have searched for Atlantis.
If you want to protect your 'find' then copyright your information or, at the very least, get your info notarized.

I didn't go through all the pages here so if someone has already suggested this I apologize for the repeat.

The OP is missing in action, because he is a fraud. He didn't discover anything or come up with any "new" theory that someone else hasn't thought of years ago. He stated he won't write a book, yet somehow he wants to present his "findings" to a University or other reputable source.

Meanwhile the thread has devolved into the history of non-existant civilizations, the origins of man and an ancient nuclear war....which, of course never happened.

Could a MOD please close this thread.......useless.

Okay, let me do some more lifting for you.

Here's a link to the Shukla Yajurveda. I'm assuming you meant the Shukla Yajurveda (the White Yajurveda) because the Black Yajurveda (the Krishna Yajurveda) doesn't have ten books and you referenced book 10 verse 19.

I could be wrong, if so show me book ten of the Krishna Yajurveda.

The following is a quote of the Shukla Yajurveda, 10.19:

Translated by Ralph T.H. Griffith, 1899
Source


Good luck finding a direct, verifiable quote of Ganguli making these statements.

I'm certain he did not.

If you want a headstart on where this lie originated, I'd suggest searchiung the website of David Hatcher Childress.



This is simply not true.


They did "make up" something. They made up a name for this new species. Homo Antcessor is not the same as Homo Sapiens, no0 matter how badly you want it to be.

Here's a link to the Discover article you mentioned:
Discover Magagine, Homo Anrtecessor article

Here's some info on how this ancestor of yours differs from H. Sapiens:
(Bolded portions differ from H. Sapiens)
Source
More on Homo Antecessor - the ancestor (it is thought) of both modern man and neandertal:
Archaeology Magazine
Atapuerca and the Homo AntecessorBones Found in La Gran Dolina, possible Answer to the “Missing Link”



"Could only have been built by Homo Sapiens!" Yeah, right.
Please, this discovery, while rem,arkable if correctly hypothesized, has no indications about it that only H. Sapiens could have built it.

Here's a reference to this discovery (made, BTW, by Mary Leakey.)

Source
Note how it says that this circle is formed from basalt stones that have been "loosely piled." Not exactly Great Pyramid architecture, is it?


Again, this book you refer to in this specific case, I assume you mean the Vimanyka Shashtra, was written in the twentieth century. It was "channelled."

There are ancient references to a much older book by the same name, but it has never been found and it's contents are completely unknown.


Nope, don't see it.

Here's a link to the English translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam, Sixth Canto, Chapter 3.

Srimad Bhagavatam

If I missed it, please point it out to me.

You remain completely unfounded and unbelieved.

Will you stop it now before you start quoting Michael Cremo?

Harte

What, Harte, not having a go at all those ancient manufactured artifacts that /prove/ man was around zillions of years ago?

--Jaylemurph

Ran out of time on my lunchbreak dude.

Home computer has crashed - I'm only doing this at work now until I rectify that situation.

Anywho, all these were already pretty much debunked in other threads - plus, I gotta leave something for Emma and Eric to do, right?

Harte

Sigh.

Well, I suppose till they get in gear I'll be forced to believe that Ozi's sources were right mankind has existed for millions of years and had super-bad advanced technology. Or were major time-travelling litterbugs.

Something to think about while I wait for my permit for my anti-ZOG shotguns fer my new homestead.


--Jaylemurph

Hope you did,Hope it works out for you.

Atlantis, as I'm sure many on this topic have told you is a production of Greek philosopher Plato's mind. The only sources for the legend of Atlantis come from Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias, where a student responds to Socrates' question of a perfect society (more or less) as a homework assignment. The student (Critias) states that the perfect society was ancient Athens for having defeated Atlantis around 9,000 years before their time. Atlantis is protrayed as the oppressor and invader whose civilization became greedy and rude. So it is easy to see that the dialogues exemplify a classic story of good (non-greedy ancient Athens) vs. evil (oppressive Atlantis). We should take this tale, therefore with a grain of salt, and realize it is indeed a philosophical writing, not attempting to propose that there indeed once existed a lost continent outside the Strait of Gibralter. As for other "sources" for the legend of Atlantis, they can all be discounted, because either 1.) they were completely made up, or 2.) they refer and (eloborate) on Plato's dialogues on Atlantis. So my idea about where "Atlantis" is could be just as good as yours, since the only veritable sources to have used in your research would be of course the Timaeus and Critias dialogues. Any objections, as to the location of Atlantis, on Uranus?

- Regards, Bokonon

Has this guy told whoever it is he needs to tell yet?
Because I'd like to hear his story.
Bogus or not.

Harte, i dont wanna get in to the evolution things here, im laready dealing with it in a nother post. Come there, you wil find it entertaining and educating.

Now i give yu a few more example from vimanas,


The following quotations from classical Sanskrit literature are chosen specifically to illustrate the visual appearance, nature and capabilities generally ascribed to the ancient fabulous vehicles known as vimanas (pronounced "vimans") in the ancient writings of India. The Sanskrit term "vimana" is usually translated "airborne chariot," "aerial car," or "celestial car" (or sometimes simply "car") by the Hindu translators.*




Having spoken thus, Maharaja Nirga made a complete circle around Lord Krishna and touched his crown to the Lord's feet. Granted permission to depart, King Nirga then boarded a wonderful celestial car as all the people looked on. (Bhagavata Purana)


While Dhruva Maharaja was passing through space, he saw, in succession, all the planets of the solar system, and on the path he saw all the demigods in their vimanas showering flowers upon him like rain. (Bhagavata Purana)


He traveled in that way through the various planets, as the air passes freely in every direction. Coursing through the air in that grand and splendid vimana, which could fly at will, he surpassed even the Devas. (Bhagavata Purana)


Then the highly intelligent Asura Maya built the cities . . . There were many palaces with gems. Aerial cars shining like the sun, set with Padmaraga stones, moving in all directions and looking like moonbeams, illuminated the cities. (Siva Purana)


When morning dawned, Rama, taking the Celestial Car Puspaka had sent to him by Vivpishand, stood ready to depart. Self-propelled was that car. It was large and finely painted. It had two stories and many chambers with windows, and was draped with flags and banners. It gave forth a melodious sound as it coursed along its airy way. (Ramayana)


The Puspaka Car, that resembles the sun and belongs to my brother, was brought by the powerful Ravan; that aerial and excellent car, going everywhere at will, is ready for thee. That car, resembling a bright cloud in the sky, is in the city of Lanka. (Ramayana)


Beholding the car coming by force of will Rama attained to an excess of astonishment. And the king got in, and the excellent car, at the command of Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere. And in that car, coursing at will, Rama greatly delighted. (Ramayana)


When the Daityas were being slaughtered they again took to their vimana and, employing the Danava science, flew up into the sky . . . I (Arjuna) assaulted their vimana . . . Wounded by the flight of deadly-accurate iron missiles, the Asura vimana fell broken to the earth . . . Matali swiftly descended earthward, as in a steep dive, on our divinely effulgent car. (Mahabharata)


Karna took up that fierce weapon, which resembled the tongue of the Destroyer or the Sister of Death. That terrible and effulgent dart, Naikartana, was hurled at the Rakshasa. Beholding that excellent and blazing weapon . . . the Rakshasa began to fly away in fear . . . Destroying that blazing illusion of Ghatotkacha and piercing right through his breast that resplendent dart soared aloft in the night . . . Ghatotkacha, then uttering diverse roars, fell, deprived of life by the dart of Sakra. (Mahabharata)


The vimana had all necessary equipment. It could not be conquered by the gods or demons. And it radiated light and reverberated with a deep rumbling sound. Its beauty captivated the minds of all who beheld it. Visvakarma, the lord of its design and construction, had created it by the power of his austerities, and its outline, like that of the sun, could not be easily delineated. (Mahabharata)


And he also gave [unto Arjuna] a car furnished with celestial weapons whose banner bore a large ape . . . And its splendour, like that of the Sun, was so great that no one could gaze at it. It was the very car riding upon which the lord Soma had vanquished the Danavas. Resplendent with beauty, it looked like an evening cloud reflecting the effulgence of the setting Sun. (Mahabharata)


Bhima flew along in his car, resplendent as the sun and loud as thunder . . . The flying chariot shone like a flame in the night sky of summer . . . it swept by like a comet . . . It was if two suns were shining. Then the chariot rose up and all the heavens brightened. (Mahabharata)

And on this sunlike, divine, wonderful chariot the wise disciple of Kuru flew joyously upward. When becoming invisible to the mortals who walk the earth, he saw wondrous airborne chariots by the thousands. (Mahabharata)


And the celebrated Arjuna, having passed through successive regions of the heavens, at last beheld the city of Indra. And there he beheld celestial cars by thousands stationed in their respective places [an airport?] and capable of going everywhere at will, and he saw tens of thousands of such cars moving in every direction. (Mahabharata)


And having vanquished his foe, Krishna furnished with weapons and unwounded and accompanied by the kings, came out of Girivraja riding on that celestial car . . . upon that car Krishna now came out of the hill-fort. Possessed of the splendour of heated gold, and decked with rows of jingling bells . . . always slaughtering the foe against whom it was driven, it was the very car riding upon which Indra had slain ninety-nine Asuras of old. (Mahabharata)


And thereupon that best of cars became still more dazzling with its splendour and was incapable of being looked at by created beings, as the midday sun surrounded by a thousand rays . . . And Achyuta, that tiger among men, riding with the two sons of Pandu upon that celestial car . . . coming out of Girivraja, stopped (for some time) on a level plain outside of town. (Mahabharata)


We beheld in the sky what appeared to us to be a mass of scarlet cloud resembling the fierce flames of a blazing fire. From that mass many blazing missiles flashed, and tremendous roars, like the noise of a thousand drums beaten at once. And from it fell many weapons winged with gold and thousands of thunderbolts, with loud explosions, and many hundreds of fiery wheels. Loud became the uproar of falling horses, slain by these missiles, and of mighty elephants struck by the explosions . . . Those terrible Rakshasas had the shape of large mounds stationed in the sky. (Mahabharata)


Vimanas, decked and equipped according to rule, looked like heavenly structures in the sky . . . borne away they looked like highly beautiful flights of birds. (Mahabharata)


Gifted with great energy the Rakshasa once more came down to Earth in his golden vimana . . . when it had landed it looked like a beautifully shaped mound of antimony on the surface of the ground. (Ghatotrachabadma)


The splendid chariot, made of silver and coated with tiger-skin, and bright like the fire itself, making a noise like the roaring of the clouds; defying all obstacles, adorned with jewels and gold, dazzling to the eyesight and bright . . . went speedily on, making space resound like unto the muttering cloud in the sky. He issued out of his abode like the beautiful moon passing through a huge cloud. (Ayodhya Kandam, XVI, pp. 235-236)





*This is always the case in P. C. Roy's translation of the Mahabharata (i.e., if a passage contains the word "vimana," it is from one of the alternate sources listed below). All excerpts from the Ramayana are from Manatha Nath Dutt's translation (who uses the term "vimana"). The Puranas are from Richard L. Thompson's work "Alien Identities". [Back]




Yudhishthira's Ascent to Heaven
From Protap Chandra Roy's translation of the Mahabharata

Causing the heaven and the earth to be filled by a loud sound, then Indra came to Yudhishthira on a car and asked him to ascend it.


Seeing his brothers fallen on the earth, King Yudhishthira the just said to that deity of a thousand eyes these words: "My brothers have all dropped down here! They must go with me. Without them by me, I do not wish to go to the celestial region, O lord of all the celestials. The delicate princess Draupadi, deserving of every comfort, should go with us! You should permit this.&