I'm not "on it." I'm over it.

These "artifacts" have already been refuted here, the ones that even have any evidence even for their existence that is.

Since you only provided a photo, I assume your "footprint" is the Meister print.

Google it to see that the entire thing was a construct of a preacher's overactive zeal for God as the creator.

Or, you could visit Doug's Archaeology Site. Google that for the link to Doug's. I'm on a different computer and don't have it handy.

You can also find Doug's by searching here at U-M. I've provided the link several times here in the past.

Doug has a link to an excellent paper on the Meister print. Many photos included.

(Not that I think you will ever actually do any of your own research. I just threw that in about Doug's for people reading the thread that might be interested.)

Your iron pot in coal does not exist. Nor does the gold bracelet in coal that is often mentioned, though I see you did not mention this particular item.

There were some artifacts planted in a mine under a mountain in California back in the 1800's, thought to be perpetrated by the miners as a joke. They included arrowheads and various other artifacts utilized by indigenous peoples. These artifacts exactly matched those being used by the indigenous population at the time in the area. This fact of exact matching proved the hoax, because there is simply no way on earth that some culture from a million years ago would replicate precisely the stone napping technique, pottery, etc. of a more modern culture.

Sorry I can't link to this info right now - my home computer has crashed - I'm at work (staying over) and I don't have time to google all this up - my saved links are on my home computer.

That's all on those "artifacts." They are all regurgitated in Cremo's book "Forbidden Archaeology," a pack of stupid lies gathered up by a dropout ex hippie turned Hare Krishna that now pens ridiculous books for a Hindu Creationist organization. (That's why I mentioned him earlier.)

I will say that Cremo did do research that must have taken him a long time, but he just never researched any of the explanations that have been provided for all these silly claims. That is, he skipped over the parts that would show that Archaeology actually [does know what it's talking about. That is because his aim (of course) was to discredit archaeology and it's explanations - just like Pat Robertson likes to do for Christ - so that he could prop up his apparent lack of faith. After all, if you have faith, you don't need to disprove science, do you?


The quote you provided appears nowhere in any translation of the Mahabharata. Period. End of question.
This is why "Ganguli never rectified..." it. He never said it and no translation says it.


I believe that the "iron" part may have been an addition made after the advent of the Iron Age in India, which if I remember correctly came quite early in that area (the "Iron Age" differs by area since not all areas began making and using iron at the same time.)

Anyway, like I said, it was a guess and even at that it is far more believable that some alien God weapon.


I need to point out that you are only copying and pasting these things here - mostly from the same one or two webpages. Myself, on the other hand, I am looking for the actual translations of these Vedas so I can check on what you claim. IOW, I'm already spending about an hour for every minute you spend on these posts. Yet you imagine that I would waste my time checking every single quote? Please. If one is wrong, it's safe to assume they all are, until you start linking to the texts themselves and not to some website proclaiming some moron's version of what these texts say. IOW, link me to the texts themselves, showing where they say what you claim, and not to David Hatcher Childress and what he wants them to say (in order to con people like you out of their cash.)

Until then, there's no way I'm gonna wade through over a thousand pages of Vedic storytelling (like the Mahabharata) to try and find out if what your source has said is true. Note that in the last one, you didn't even provide the book (canto) numbers.

I have a life - I can't do everything for you.


I have never said there is no chance. I'm all about probabilities and there is no such thing as a zero probability in this sort of situation.

However, since there exists no evidence whatsoever, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that there was ever some advanced ancient unknown civilization.

Of course, if evidence comes up, I'll gladly look at it (not that my opinion means much.) That is the proper stance of science and it is exactly the current stance of Archaeology.

Harte

You have five posts, how can you be tired of anything? Then you say tangible proof? There is endless tangible proof that there were no advanced civilizations before ours and none to refute it. It's not anyone's word against anyone's word. It's what's verifiable and what's not.



The eskimos did not have twenty words for snow. They had words that mean things along the lines of frost, flurries, blizzard, drifts, cornice, snowflake, sleet, slush, hardpack, etc. Distinct words with distinct meanings that have correlations in all languages that developed where it snows. I don't know where this twenty words for one thing got started but it's not true. As for written ancient languages, some are much easier to translate than others depending on how tracable their origins are or the type of language their are. There are words that are only one word. More to the point, I believe the person you refer to is saying that multiple scholars that come to the same translation are much more reliable than some yahoo with a website and a sanskrit dictionary.



Yes, the evidence would be there. Not everything is built on top of everything else. There could be a nuclear war that wipes out the entire US and 40,000 years from now there would be ample archeological evidence of it. Things don't just disappear.

Why do these topics always stray to "ancient aliens". What bothers me about this, is that whenever people site "evidence" of these occurences, it is from a religious text, or from non-scientific findings. When did people stop thinking to use Occam's razor before coming to a conclusion? The simplest and best supported hypothesis should be the one looked it. It seems that some of the people posting have no idea even what science tries to accomplish, and what an actual "theory" is. Information from speculative sources (often religious texts) do not provide scientific evidence of anything no matter how hard you twist them. There seems to be a misunderstanding of what archaeology actually is. Archaeology seeks to study the historical and pre-historical past through artifacts, features, and essentially the tangible culture left behind by ancient peoples (humans). Archaeology does not seek to gain its knowledge of a group of people or civilization by the translation of their writing, but rather (As stated earlier) by the material culture and features that a group of people left behind. A lot of archaeology has to do with reconstructing how a past people lived through (again) the interpretation of material culture and ecofacts.

In response to your argument Ozi, "primitive" is a subjective word, meaning that it can used for describing a variety of levels of cultural state that a population of human beings exhibits. Therefore, this word is not a good description of people especially in an archaeological sense as the definition varies with the person and context of use. Drilling technology using microliths and various Upper paleolithic artifacts is definetly capable of creating very circular holes in beads and bone, and should be attested to the intellegence of past human populations during ice age times at the Pleistocene / Holocene boundary, rather than ancient "alien" civilizations.



Harrappa and Mohenjo-Daro were part of the Indus River Valley civilization and are not necessarily correlated with Hindu religious texts.

- Regards, Bokonon

i will look up the doug things, thanks for that. The funny things i find is that to decrdit the artifacts, its put down to some miners playing pranks, like they knew if someone found an arrow or a pot in coal that poeple would assume there will anceint civilisations, you telling me they had this knowledge as miners, and this is not evidence to refute it is it. its an assumption, two different things.

Stilll you guys say it has been refuted, based on what, some assumption that they were pranks and fakes, well based on wat, that today we cant locate them. its porbably because they are lying at the bottom of some museum, left to rot, because fall out side our imaginary evolutionary timeline.

You claim you read the actuall translations of the vedas, well so do i, but there are different translations out there. Now chanda published, the books translated by ganguli, if chandra included the verse about nuke war, in his publication, then why did ganguli nt rectify this. it would simple, Oi chandra, it never translated like this, why have you done this, take it out. But no it remains in his publications. Of course there is azero probability in all situations, maths will show that when you reach certain probability, i can remember the number off top if my head, that it becomes a impossibility. I said there could hvae easily bee advanced civilisation co-existing with prmitive ones. For example, if the us was nukes to hell, what would be left, nothing, and survivors would become just as primitive as those co- exisitng around world.

We ave a land mass which has changed over time, sea has over taken so much of the land, so what lies at the bottom of the oceans and the seas remain to be seen, but there is every possibility that we may find something soon. There are so many ancient sites which we cant explains, the nasca plains, stone henge, easter island etc etc. who , how, and why were these thigns built, we dont have conclusive anwsers there.

Sanksrit, ARabic, many languages have words which english has no equivlant for, how do you think they are translated, and what do you do when one word has several meaning and all are applicable.


Capeo, you posted something on the vimana, i wonder if you read i posted back....if not here is a little more.

Probes of the study team, infact had started from early 1999. Extensive correspondence, leg work in contacting and meeting persons connected, even remotely, with the work and its conveyor Shree Anekal Subbarayashastri, his associates, descendants, research workers within and outside the country was an intense exercise and interesting too.



The starting point was, of course, the acquisition of G.R.Joyser’s published work ‘Vymanika shastra’, from a less known book stall in Bangalore. A few leading libraries had just one copy in their reference sections. During this process several sources confirmed that many a copy have been taken by foreign researchers. Over eight universities libraries in USA and UK accessed through the Internet confirmed availability of copies in their libraries. It was interesting that some individual research workers had been working seriously on the work. From the collation of information, it is noted that a majority of researches conducted abroad belonged to post 1985 period. Here again, some of the published books abroad indicate that researches there have been continuos and steady till current times. One has to acknowledge the seriousness with which works of this nature pertaining to ancient India has been taken. Needless to say that inland scholars have a lot more to emulate. A more incisive observation is that focus on research of this works both in India and abroad has come about pointedly after 1988.



A study is conducted by our team on the chronology of Indian researches from various reports and claims. The turnkey for researchers was the publication of ‘Vymaanika Shastra’ by G.R.Joyser (English) and ‘Brihad Vimaana Shastra’ edited by Swami Brahmamuni Parivrajaka Gurukul Kandgi of Haridvar and published by Dayanand Bhavan, New Delhi in Sanskrit-Hindi. The first known research appears to from Sri Naren Sheth of Mumbai, a freelance enthusiast. His research as claimed by him spans nearly thirty years. Due credit goes to him for his zeal and dedication even with meagre sources of laboratory facilities. His reports mention the assistance sought from IIT Bombay, BARC, TIFR etc. in preparing laboratory samples of ‘Chumbakamani’, ‘Panchadharaloha’. Sri Naren Sheth is seventy years of age now. He is keen to demonstrate the preparation of the materials he developed for the benefit of genuine researchers on invitation basis. Extract of his report is appended (Appendix – A)



The second known attempt was a ‘A Critical study’ of the work by a team of scientists from Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, from 1973-1974, soon after the publication of Joseyer’s translation. Notably this review undertaken in the backdrop of principles of modern science did not find favour with the critics. Contemporary aerodynamics and propulsion principles were heavily superimposed during this review. Had the study gone deeper into Yantras (machines) and advanced material technology dealt in the text they would have had second thoughts. The text, seen under the principles of mercury vapour propulsion, Levity, anti-gravity material, interesting ideas being brought out by western researchers would have found more relevance. It is to be widely appreciated that aviation today is not only a science of structure and aerodynamic phenomena but equally or more prominently contributed by associated sciences in systems such as optics, guidance, navigation, tactical and strategic concepts being developed not under one roof but being integrated out of deliveries from discreet sources of technologies. As seen by this review team, our study team also identified two essential aspects corrupting the understanding of the readers. They are usage of unstandardised units of measurement such as those relating to speed, length, resistance, force, heat and so on adding enough confusion. Secondly the drawings of the vimanas and its components drawn by local draughtsman under instructions from Sri. Shastriji seem to have been influenced by his own imagination. Nevertheless, we request I.I.Sc., team to have a relook at the work in the context of adequate validation of other parts of the text in the last two decades. Their report published in 1974 is appended. (Appendix –



Then on, there seems to be fairly a long gap till late eighties when Dr.Roberto Pinotti a scientist from Italy reminded Indian scientists to take ancient Indian scientific works seriously (with reference to ‘Vymaanika Shastra’). What a paradox! Assuming that he must have made this statement from a serious study of the work, he had extensively noticed features other Indian scientists had missed to note. Dr.Pinotti’s address was not to a casual gathering of orthodox Indians. He was addressing a seminar of International Astronautical Congress in October 1988. The seminar had been organised by Indian space research organisation at Bangalore. Extracts of his report is appended. (Appencix – C)



It was the department of chemistry, Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay that contributed towards laboratory development of materials like Chumbakamani, Panchadhara-loha and Paragrandhika-drava. Dr. Maheshwar Sharon’s report throws light on the equivalence of these materials to those developed by modern science during the later part of 20th century. Relevant extracts of his report are appended as Appndix – F. However Dr. Sharon has expressed that many of the tests could not be concluded because of limitations of translational skills and decoding.



Next it was Dr. Balachandra Rao’s turn to remark on the work in his book titled ‘Tradition, Science and Society” published in 1988. Dr.Balachandra Rao, a professor of Mathematics at a science college in Bangalore attacks the work, almost lethally. We request him to review the work in consultation with experts in the field of aviation and related sciences.



Some time in 1988, Dr. David Childres, an eminent scholar from USA, published the first edition of his Book ‘Vimana Aircraft Of Ancient India And Atlantis’. This book has been updated with research information and published every year till 1999. In this book, he has also chosen to reproduce completely ‘Vymaanika Shastra’ (Joyser’s English version) for the sake of readers. Detailed discussions on propulsion conceptual techniques such as mercury vapour propulsion, thrust vector engines, solar energy employment etc., have been introduced for prospective contemporary thinkers. The book is thought-provoking and makes interesting reading. He has sighted principles and concepts that had evaded conventional Indian scientists.



The next milestone the work ‘Vymanika Shastra’ saw was a kind of miniature revolution set by a group of scientists from Hyderabad starting with a country wide search of ancient Indian scientific literature. During their visit to Bangalore, they obtained copies of some of Sri. Shastry’s works including ‘Vymanika Shastra’ from the author’s descendants. This was in 1991-92, as learnt from the grand children of the pandit. The team from Birla Science Centre, Hydrabad composed of Dr. B.G. Siddarth and Sri. C.S.R. Prabhu. It appears that out of the ancient works they had gathered in their collection-drive ‘Vymanika Shastra’ prominently struck them and from that they found topics relating to materials suited for their research. Materials developed in accordance with formulae given in the text validated textual contents. The brief report is appended Appendix – D



The unique treatise with a highly technical scientific outlook on development of materials and yantras as per ancient scientific formulae is from a task force sponsored by Indian National Science Academy, INSA. The topic, though not directly a part of ‘Vymanika Shastra’, is related to work ‘Anshu Bodhini’ of the common author, Maharshi Baharadwaja. Hence the special mention of this research work made here. This piece of research is undoubtedly a benchmark in the conduct of researching ancient Indian works. The task force consisted of Dr. Dongre, P.G.College of Varanasi, Dr.P.Ramachandra Rao, Director of National Metallurgical Laboratory, Jamshedpur and others. We are appendaging their report in full as a part of our study report. We are thankful to them for the valuable co-operation extended to us. Their report relates to development of a novel spectrometer / monochromeater called ‘Dwanta Pramapaka Yantra’ and an Infra-Red transparent material (non-hygroscopic) called ‘Prakasha Stambhana bida’. Their latest report on this research is as recent as Dec 1999. A relevent extract is appended as appendix – E. This is undoubtedly the best report in our literature survey and raised our curiosity into the way technical interpretations are required to be made on works evolved by ‘Scientists’ carried through earlier civilisations. This aspect needs a positive bent of mind than just ridiculing ancient works with sheer desdain.



The next to appear is Sri. M.K. Kawadkar of Nagpur whose interpretational skills and sixth sense are seen to manifest at their best. He has taken up study of some chapters of ‘Vymanika Shastra’ and brought out fascinating exposures on yantras, atmosphere, in particular ‘Parivesha Kriya Yantra’ discussed in the work interpreted as ‘Auto-pilot/ Auto guidance system’. His articles published through ‘Bharatiya Boudhiks Samapda’ a quarterly magazine published from Nagpur are thought-provoking and fall in line with the kind of research-insight vitally needed in studying ancient works of Sanskrit. More about Sri. Kawadkar's analyses later through his comments.



Distinct commonality with three major contributors viz., B.M. Birla Science Centre, Dr. Dongre’s research report, Sri. M.K. Kawadkar’s Analyses lies in their way of approach in research. They all emphasise that knowledge of Sanskrit and/ or science does not help in understanding of ancient scientific work. In addition to the above aspects what is even more important is the ability to interpret with reference to context. That bit of sixth sense is a vital attribute.



This understanding alone has contributed to their success and rendered purposeful results. Laboratory development of materials has gone through the following process.



· Understanding of poetic form of Sanskrit version.

· Convert to prose form, decode the terms wherever required and arrive at ingredients.

· Use modern equivalents / substitutes, wherever required.

· Determine proportions of mixing

· Use process details to obtain the materials.



This methodology has worked so well that it must have boosted their confidence as well. Thus a closed mind set in studying such works will lead one nowhere. ‘Birla Science Centre’ report claims such a high level of confidence that they are categorical to state that most of the materials in the text can be obtained through laboratory tests. Extrapolating this logic, if textual contents of one part of this work could gain a high degree of validity there should be no reason why other chapters in the same text should be any different. Adverse reviews of some critics should be questioned under the spotlight of this logic.



One of the most exhaustive studies made on ancient Indian aviation is by Prof. D. K. Kanjilal. His illustrious work ‘Vimana In Ancient India’ refers to Indian epics, Vedas in great detail and describes usage of vimanas in the prehistoric era. This work, by itself is a milestone and makes very interesting reading.



Reports from Aurobindo Ashram, Pondichery hint that research relating to Propulsion Systems & Artificial Intelligence based on Vymanika Shastra are being carriedout.



In response to its request the study team generated valuable data from inland and overseas sources relating to studies / researches on this text. The data has gone into our report in some form or the other. We have reasons to believe that many texts and treatise referred to by preceptors in this work are still available in obscure collections of individuals and libraries. Perseverance in locating them should yield useful results.

My point was regardless of its release, there have sufficient studies in to it and the translations and teh fact that there are more volumes and books regarding teh phenemona, guess you dint pick up on that.

Capeo nice video on youtube.....But not sure what yu were trying to explain there, that is one hypothesis as to how stone henge was built. Which in all honesty seems feasable.


But i was refereing to jewlery, with tiny holes, which we would normally drill, how were these holes aroud in jewlery as far back as 11000 yr ago. You say by rubbing stones, well i find that hard to believe, let me see some one drill a hole by rubbing stone with stone. Show me.

Remains left behind by many civilizations indicate that air transport was used in very ancient times. This can clearly be seen in Mayan ruins, pictures in the Egyptian pyramids, and Sumerian inscriptions. As far as we can tell, people were building and using vehicles similar to gliders, airplanes, and helicopters thousands of years ago.

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A model glider estimated to date back to 200 BCE


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The resemblance to today's light bulbs of the figures in these reliefs from the Temple of Hathor at Dendera has amazed scientists.


Scientists have experimented with the system depicted in the reliefs to determine whether it could have emitted light. The Austrian electrical engineer Walter Garn studied the reliefs in great detail, and reproduced the Djed pillar insulator, bulb and twisting wire. The model he built did indeed work and emit light. 60


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One piece of evidence that Ancient Egyptians may have used electricity is the absence of any traces of soot on the interior walls of their tombs and pyramids. If—as evolutionist archaeologists maintain—they used burning torches and oil lamps for lighting, then traces of soot would inevitably have been left behind. Yet there are no such traces anywhere, not even in the very deepest chambers. It would have been impossible for construction to continue without the necessary lighting being provided nor, even more importantly, for the magnificent murals to have been painted on the walls. This strengthens the possibility that electricity was, indeed, used in Ancient Egypt.


This is just simple about the egyptians, if they are capable surely the civilisation before them were too. We co-exist topday with prmitive nations, in the amazon and africa and other remote parts for the world. There is every possibility that this trend was in the past too.

POST YOUR SOURCES! You can't just cut and paste things, it's plagarism.

Anyhow, the Vymanika shastra is fake. That's already been proven no matter how many cut and pastes you do from ridiculous websites that just make stuff up. How do you not get this? It never existed before the early 1900s. No mention of it, no anything. The book, itself, in it's forward claims it was channeled. If you believe that, then I guess you'll believe anything. The only scientific study on it discredited it. You'll note the only places you see mention of it are wacky conspiracy and UFO sites. No scholars consider it authentic.

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Of the bracelets in the above picture, the one on the left is made of marble, and the right one from basalt. They date back to between 8,500 and 9,000 BCE. Evolutionists claim that in that period, only tools made out of stone were used. But basalt and marble are exceptionally hard substances. In order for them to be turned and rounded links, steel blades and equipment must be used. It is impossible for them to have been cut and shaped without the use of steel tools. If you give anyone a piece of stone and ask him to use it to turn a piece of basalt into a bracelet like that in the picture, what degree of success will they have? Rubbing one stone against another or striking them against one another cannot, of course, produce a bracelet. Moreover, these artifacts show that the people who made them were civilized individuals with aesthetic tastes and an understanding of beauty.


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One of the proofs that primitive-minded ape-men never existed is this 40,000-year-old flute. Scientific research shows that flutes like this one, based on the present-day seven-note Western scale, were used tens of thousands of years ago.


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The illustrations show hand-made tools of obsidian and bone, hooks and various objects made out of stone. Obviously, one cannot obtain such regular shapes by striking raw material with a stone. Crude blows will merely break the bone and prevent the desired shape from taking form. In the same way, it is clear that sharp lines and pointed tips cannot be possible, even with tools of the very hardest stone, such as granite and basalt. These stones are cut regularly, just like slicing fruit. Their brightness stems not from their being polished, as evolutionists maintain, but from the shaping itself. Those who made these items must have had devices of iron or steel to let them shape these materials in the manner they wished. Slabs of hard stone can be cut so accurately only by using a material even harder, such as steel.

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This tool, made out of obsidian—a dark, glass-like rock—dates back to 10,000 BCE. It is impossible to shape obsidian just by hitting it with a stone

I already explained how and Harte went into more detail. It was common practice and well known to archeology. All stone cutting was stone on stone until we had metal and even then quartz dust was used to aid the cutting. Any harder substance will cut through a softer substance.

pls youtube it or something. Show me that someone can make a whole in those material i have posted pictures of, by rubbing stones. Thx

A project study conducted by wg. Cdr. M.P.Rao, etc. of Aeronautical Society of India on behalf of Aerospace Information Panel of Aeronautics Research and Development Board, B-Wing, Sena Bhavan, New Delhi –110011, India.

It all started on a pleasant winter evening of 1998. During a discourse on renowned mythological epic Mahabharata, the eminent scholar sidestepped to make reference to the existence of vimanas in epic era. He further elaborated to aver the existence of ancient Indian treatise “Vymanika shastra” dealing with Aviation science and Technology. He indicated that this work had been ascribed to Maharshi Bharadwaja and conveyed to the world, in Sanskrit narration, through Late Pandit Anekal Subbaraya Shastry in the first decade of twentieth century. Not many in the audience had known this before. At the end of the discourse most of them had appreciated what they had heard, but forgot it as well. There were exceptions too. Musing over the interesting revelations, probing started in right earnest. The scholar delivering the lecture had nothing more to contribute. Nevertheless, he was firm on what he had conveyed.



Perseverance led to location of the work in a primitive library and a solitary bookstall in Bangalore. Cleaning the dust-clad copy of the work was not a pleasant experience. A few copies had reached the curious brains long ago, many of them being foreigners. The rest had found their way to the condemned cellar.



Debut reading of the work conveyed mixed feeling of amazement and skepticism. Patient successive readings generated conviction and added interest. The eerie feeling ‘Is it a wild goose chase? however, lingered on for a while. On gathering more information about the work, it was discovered that we were not alone in our pursuit. We had company. Reportedly many had studied the work. Some liked it and others dumped it. Many others not willing to be bystanders, went skin - deep and wrote derogatory reviews. It was not their cup of tea. They had no clue of understanding such works. They trailed from where others moved ahead. Their success was merely in creating roadblocks to genuine researchers.



Scientists with true resolve carried on with incessant efforts. This group included freelance researchers, science laboratories, and scholars. Dedicated topics were taken up for study as specific projects. While freelancers, with their limited resources, came out with impressive results, science laboratories succeeded in fabricating hardware from the treatise as per prescribed formulae. Scholars and scientists from abroad did not lag behind. “Vymanika Shastra” is quoted by many of them for its relevance in many scientific literatures, particularly in USA. Germans were reported to have bought fifteen copies of the work within few days of its release in 1973.



Just quoting the summarized findings from a report of Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad, relating to researches on three types of alloys developed by them as described in the textual content of this work, they find:





“As these materials were found to be novel in their compositions and preparations patents have been asked for them. The experimental results in BISR laboratory established the originality and textual description of the materials in “Vimana Shastra”. Therefore there is a strong possibility that the large number of descriptions of other new materials described may also yield good experimental results in the laboratory.”



The study team found company and enough company too, inland and foreign. What is sighted at the turn of the century appears to be still the tip of the iceberg. There is more and much more the work “Vymanika Shastra” has to convey, hidden in the potent future


.................................


Now you sy its fake, based on what, thats it was channeled or something, no it was dictated to him. I know why your tyring call them fakes, but there is more than one, the one you call fake is just one book, but in this study they deal with this one, because of the skeptisism involved with it etc and to clear any misconmceptions, not some old age study, but fairly recent. Like i said right at the start you boys and girls stick to thos translations which are a century old. I ahve also given you an explanation on the type of language sanskrit is too.

Wow, dude, you're an idiot. I'm sorry. You can't make spear tips of obsidian by hitting it with a stone? It's called flint knapping. Look it up. Or take a walk around the Owens Valley where I used to live. There are obsidian tools and spear tips all over the desert. Then tell the Paiute on the reservation in Bishop, who still knapp obsidian to make souveniers to sell, that what their doing is impossible. Or tell that to all the people that do it as hobby.

http://www.flintknappingtools.com/

The fact that you're so oblivious to such basic things makes this whole conversation useless. All the stuff you posted in the last two cut and pastes are either actual artifacts that were easily made by man with primitive tech or the same old crap that's been discredited over and over. You still refuse to post your sources as well. I'm done.

Source is the book darwinism.


ofcourse your done, coz you aint supplied me with video showing someone making a whole a tiny one, by rubbing stones. yu reflect on one item, one which you feel yu can confidently refute, good. What about the others....... these are things available in the museum to see. In reality you know there is evidence out there, but your not willing to accept it capeo, because it does not conform to the evolutionary timeline.

one more... then



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These pieces of copper, dating back to between 8,000 and 10,000 BCE, are believed to have been used as beads. The people of the time possessed the technical know-how to find copper ore and then work it.



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The 5 June 1852 issue of Scientific American magazine carried a report regarding the discovery of the remains of a metallic vessel some 100,000 years old. This bell-shaped vessel resembled zinc in color, or a composition metal, with a considerable portion of silver. On its surface there were finely worked figures of bouquets or flowers, and vines or wreaths. Evolutionists, who claim that metal was not used in the very earliest periods, can’t possibly account for this discovery. Clearly, the people who created this artifact possessed an advanced culture capable of producing metallic compounds and working metal.

I didn't choose to reply to all the artifacts you use as evidence bacuase i simply dont have the time but this one is a good example of how you are using psudoscience to make your claims. You seem unaware that much of the research claiming these are light bulbs has been very clearly refuted. The images yous see here are taken out of context, in fact the writing beside them explains the symbolism of the imagery. They are lotus flowers and are symbolic. As is the snakes pictured inside them. In ancient art we souldn't look for things that we would find familiar we should look for things that would have been familiar to the artist. No these light bulbs would not have worked and there is soot in the chambers. You seem to think these ideas are being refuted as an attempt to repress information, this is not the case. Mostly what you have here are a combination of hoaxes and misinterpreted information that has been twisted by some to create pet theories that substantiate what someone wants to believe. There is no secret hidden archeology it is an open subject for any intrested in enquiring.

See thats down to how people interpret things, the egyptiains dint imply it as art did they. This is how they communicated, and also, its an opinion that it refers to lotus flowers with snakes in them although it looks nothing like them and more like bulbs, so how did they do the art work in the pyrnamids in the dark if using oil lamps etc, where is the soot.

This opinions we are talking about, but the other artifacts are there to be seen clearly.

LOL Capeo, My sentiments exactly.

How about the way that he keeps right on calling a book written in the early 1900's "ancient," regardless of having been shown that this "ancient book" itself, in it's own foreward, states that it's not ancient at all?

Also, the continued questioning of why Ganguli never "rectified" a situation that certainly never existed and hence never needed any rectifying?

Turns the stomach.

I'm done too.
Reaching for the "ignore" tab.


Couldn't have said it better. Very succinct. I'll give it a 9.5.
Nice beat, and you can dance to it.

Harte

To put it simply your wrong. The inscripstion beside the picture says what it is. The other depictions of the same scene is clearly not a bulb. yes there is soot in there....

look soot..... see..


something you should read the image you refer to was taken out of context. there is no evidence they could have even powered a bulb. I know it's nioce to see exciting ideas and want them to be true but you have to analyse the evidence. Ancient civilsations were and are incredible. they managed so much with the knowledge and resources availiable to them. I admire that. there is no need to twist the facts in this way to respect the achievements of the past.

You know, quite frankly, I think we've entertained Ozi for far too long. He doesn't want to discuss, he wants to argue -- he's happy to reiterate the same posts and ignore the points of others.
If the Mods won't close this thread, I think anybody who wants to keep a thin veneer of dignity should just let it wither away.

--Jaylemurph

All of these objects can be made from stone tools. Use your brain. Step 1: Hard heavy hammer stone or chisel strikes a piece of bone or obsidian or (other rock often chert or flint) which knocks a flake off. Step 2: refine the object you are creating by using a variety of stone and bone tools to produce uniform flaking grooves along the sides of the material one is sculpting. Step 3: Repeat. Seriously, the techniques for sculpting these objects are fairly basic, as researchers have been able to reproduce the objects using the same sorts of stone tools that ancient Homo sapiens used. Many rocks are harder than obsidian and basalt such as quartzite which along with various granites can be used to flake off bits of the material to obtain the desired shape. Forty thousand years ago, we were not "primitive ape-men" as you suggest, but rather anatomically modern humans using sophisticated Upper Paleolithic tools including chisels, blades, and microliths. Also by 40,000 years ago, humans had developed art as cave paintings, bone carvings, and Venus figurines have been found in many Upper Paleolithic sites.

In summation, the evidence is there, you just choose to ignore it. If you're so curious as to how it's done, try hitting a rock against another rock and see what happens.

- Regards, Bokonon

Dudes, this guy has not reposted since page 8 or something. Give it up. There are already 50 million topics about this on the boards. I didn't even read any of it, I just didn't have the patience. Seems like some great discussion in there, though. I'll give it a read when I'm really bored.

I'm annoyed at myself for not diving in sooner, as pretty quickly this and his evolution thread just got so confused it was a bit pointless posting. What does Ozi actually believe? Anything thats contrary to modern science I assume.

HARTE: Simple question, you know what im on about, but your running out of arguments. Ganguli, did the translation, chandra published the books, and his publications had the verse which refered to the nuke war. You all quote ganguli translation from sacred texts.com. i posted a quote which i am trackig down and will be there soon. in which he aknowledges that the veda refer to ancient nuke war. But then his tranlsation is different, to the one published by chandra (not translated but published ganguli' translation which included obviousl the contreversial verse) Why did not ganguli rectify this, if he did not believe it.


Bokon.....

YEh i agree, we can make flints etc. I asked someone to show me by google if the wish or youtube or a webcam. that when they rub two stones together, they can drilll fine perfect circular hole through it. Thats all folks. Pls

Capeo. .. Would you like some more material on a study conducted in 1998, not 1908 as most of the matrial comes from that time. which shows vimanas, and refers to other scriptures which refer to the phenomena.

Tipsy....the pyramid of giza or any others have no soot in it, there is not much evidence in suggesting they were using oil lamps. i agree thats vague evidence that i provided, but not the pictures of the artifact which are construced with precision.

Jay.....gave up a long time ago.

emme....hardly get involved. shame.

um, yeah we do.
and if the curator of the site was asked permission to dig there to find evidence of advanced ancient civilisations, well im not surprised he/she'd say "on your bike, innit?"

I wish i could be bothered to find possibly the best post on this site to provide a link, this thread could possibly do with it....but i cant.
it was written by either harte or Jaylemurph and began a lil' something like this: "I was you some years ago..." and went on to explain the disillusionment and annoyance at finding out (by doing proper research) that the writers of 'mystery explained' pseudoscientific bumf were infact liars, cheats, extortionists, and sometimes just plain 'crazy'.

If anybody knows what post im on about, and can be more bothered than me, please provide a link, or re-post it here....Personally i think whoever the author was should have a link to it in their signiture thingy (the stuff that you can get to appear at the end of every post.)

I think everybody with a skeptical approach to these 'theories' (and it pains me to dignify them with the term) has shared the experience to some degree or other. Perhaps the more enthusiastic the innitial 'belief' the more vehement the skeptic.

So from you 'believers' tired of having your favourate theories urinated on from a great height constantly, and without mercy or compassion...a little understanding please,(its a bit like old-age) we skeptical folk were once you, we (at least a little bit) still wish we were you (if that makes sense), and one day - believe me - one day, if you stick at it (researching this stuff) and if your not completely fruity loops you'll turn into a hardassed skeptic too.

spare a thought guvnor?

Dude what you talking about....

Iron thunderbolt???



meteor?
metal worked that was fashioned into a weapon? These 'magical' weapons, and other 'magical' items forged from iron found in meteorites are not inconcievable. Even the egyptians made limited use of it...

perhaps?

Look i understand that iron is extraterrestial item which came from outer space, but this iron thunder bolt had nothing to do with a meteor, because the sanskrit word for meteor is different, they would have used the term iron meteor, not lightning or an iron bolt.

hi Ozi,


Dude, read it again, slowly.


prove it


About the precision drilling.....

while i cant be bothered to do your research for you...look up utube stuff youself...i already had these handy, they relate to egyptian tools and stoneworking, the techniques show what can be achieved with a little thought. Remember the tools wern't primitive, they were extremely sophisticated and the people who used them were only limited by the materials they had access to. This goes for all 'primitive' cultures

http://antiquity.ac.uk/Ant/073/0918/Ant0730918.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...ase_making.html
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geolo...ing_drills.html

regards.

source I know this particuar itemn is not apparently the backbone of your case but I thought I'd add that in there. I hope you understand I have come at times in my life to all these things mith an open and hopeful mind. In the end I find it is important to understand why some ideas are not accepted by the mainstream as a little research often shows there to be a good reason.

TL,DR past the first paragraph. The OP's question WAS answered numerous times.

Why is this thread still open?

The OP was asking who we thought he should go to with the information/theory he had. Several people answered, and now the thread has been overrun by Ozi in his tireless attempt to annoy the rest of us.

It's turning into a battle of will, since we will all try to show Ozi where he is wrong, but he thickheadedly keeps refusing to see logic. There is no point in this thread anymore.

Thank you.

This board is called Unexplained Mysteries not Explained Mysteries.



Who knows.

It kinda is. I think this thread should be closed.

Well listen up! If this guy cant spell how could he find Atlantis? It is made not maid. A maid cleans your house you cant maid anything but I guess you could do the maid. And anyone that finds Atlantis why would they tease you with it. They would just tell you think about it.

Oh Goodness! That is not 1/1000 of the nonsense. You should read the whole thread and it's spin off.

Who said anything about "rubbing" stones together?

- Regards, Bokonon

i can't believe i spent all my time reading this...