The second page of the Turn Shroud thread seems to have developed a problem, so I have locked the original thread and posted a second thread to continue the topic.

Last Post by Loonboy:

An interesting point you've made there Cerberus.  

It's a possibility for sure.  
:sg

[blue]Cheers. I wondered why my words of wisdom had vanished into the great unexplained....
[/blue] :s9

There is some speculation that The Turin Shroud is also mybe the cover of the table that used in the last supper.Because they said that they find some drops of wine in the Turin Shroud

You would think that someone who is the son of God would be a little more tidy than that.

I wonder if table colths were even used 2000 or so years ago...

You guys may not be in the mood to take it seriously, but you should check out the new work that is being done. Several studies in the last ten years or so call the old carbon dating dates into question.

Incidentally, it is not that the technique could not date the cloth. Cloth can be dated. What the critics of the original test are saying is that the samples were taken from the corners of the piece (not wholly the fault of the scientists, as the Vatican officials were very cautious about giving any of it away) and it is now known that the corners were rewoven after some damage to the shroud. Studies of the cloth have satisfied many scientists that this is indeed the case, and therefore, the dates were accurate, but still wrong for the artifact itself, since the testing was done on material added later.

One of the things that is most interesting is the location of plant material that comes from the area around Jerusalem and nowhere else in the world. That puts the provenance of the shroud in a whole new light: if it was created in Europe in the 14th century, why was it made from a piece of cloth that came from Jerusalem? Coupling that with some other indicators of plant pollen, which suggest a 1st century date, might lead you to wish for new carbon dating. And the last I heard, new tests were scheduled.

There is also some interesting work being done with 3D representations of the image on the shroud. It looks extremely different from painted images when graphed into a 3D modelling program..

Of course, as for who the shroud depicts, that will always be a realm away from what science can tell you. But there is a lot there to stimulate your mind into thinking, rather than simply waving it off, if the inspirations strikes you.

Sidhe Posted on Apr 17 2003, 02:45 AM

QUOTE

You guys may not be in the mood to take it seriously,

It was very interesting what you posted Sidhe, being a former history/ archeology graduate, I read with interest about the new technologies being used on the Shroud.
But it has to be said that some times even in topics like this we do go a little off topic. Which as far as I have observed ( and hasten to add taken part in) not a bad thing it lightens the mood on what is a serious and interesting disscussion whether it be here or in another thread....

Well I was just on my way back to report that the new "samples" that could be tested are thought to be of little value by experts since they came from the efforts to restore the Shroud.. so there may be nothing new to report after all!

They talk a little about DNA from the people doing the restoring mucking up the chances of finding DNA on the shroud.. my question is, had they found any DNA on the shroud, how would they know it came from the original "event" and not from one of the probably hundreds if not thousands who have handled the thing over the intervening centuries? I think the DNA angle was probably a "non starter" anyway.

It's likely we've gotten all the factual information that we are going to and this will remain another tantalizing mystery..

But I didn't mean to sound like I thought people *should* take it seriously, I was only offering what I knew as a kind of "cover" for anyone who may have wanted to. Sometimes it's hard for people to share what they know or think if it looks like they'll get totally ridiculed. Religion stirs some people up awful. I slipped into my "flame retardant" suit as soon as I looked into this thread.. I may not have needed it.

Hmm I see what you mean, but most of the time we are pretty harmless.
Religion now that's a subject that should be trated with caution.... there has been some major disagreements in the past, but most of the people here will give a fair hearing about what's been said before saying their piece... a little like me..<lol>

After all this is one of the few places that accept me for what am I...

i see the 3d image was brought up..i remember wathing a program where they got a similar effect on a cloth,,,,,,how you might ask...you take the bust of someones face heat it up in a oven.....and then sit a cloth over it's face.......yehaa you get a face on a cloth ,and then you give it the 3d test...very intresting.....before anyone says ,well that's all very well but ,but could they have thought of that back then,,,did a grate artist not draw a helicopter/handglider(plane) and more....oh and having watched a program regarding leonardo's glider...made to his specs,,it works.......mmmmm makes you wonder about other things.....i.e if we had followed that invention of flight then,,where would we be now,,,,flying disk shape things ..maybe

Yeah, but basically that is the theory of how it happened anyway.. some kind of radiation came off of the "body", whether it was a terra cotta head or a real body. As I understand it, you *can* get that effect with radiation.. is it in this thread up there? I can't see now.. but anyway, people in Hiroshima or Nagasaki had their faces "burned" into glass in negative, like the Turin Shroud. So you are still back where you began.. either you speculate it was an artist with a hot bust, or a real guy ressurrecting.. or something.

Interesting, Sidhe. Thanks for contributing that. Perhaps Jesus was raised up and ascended to *heaven* with a little bit of outside worldly help?

Well if it is the shroud of Jesus, what it means is that the process of reincarnation throws off radiation.. interesting, huh?

But you'll remember the "transfiguration" had the holy ones throwing off light too.. if heat comes with that light, you might have all you need to make a Shroud of Turin.

I don't suppose that means Jesus was an alien.. necessarily.. but a lot of abductees report the same kind of "glowing" when they get snatched, and recently a guy from South America got snatched and it left a "burn" mark on his sheets.. maybe I'll go look for that linkie..

Here is one on Linda Moulton Howe's Earthfiles website. That's a good place to find this sort of information.

if they do get the DNA off, and it is jesus' , what would they do with it, clone t to make a jesus body. what use would that be, scince his soul would not be in the body

That's a different discussion Skalra ( good to see you back BTW ) Where does the soul reside ?


Finding DNA is one thing proving it's a match for Jesus is still not possible. Even If the shroud of Turin is real it does not actually mean it was the shroud used for Jesus . We don't have conclusive Jesus DNA to compare it with so it will just be old DNA that could have belonged to just about anyone . Unless of course it contains extra thread's or geonomes .

thank you kismet. according to the bible (i think) jesus' soul went to heaven and he now rules the place. so if somehow it was his DNA, and managed to reconstuct it, and clone it... would it mean that the soul would be pulled back into its body, will it have a new soul or would it have none what so ever

I remember reading somewhere a while back that it was said that clones do not have souls, as they are assentially a double of someone else.

ok, so if a clone doesnt have a soul, how can it be a double. since the origional had one. that would mean that they arnt duplicates, but just the outer shells of us

The way I understood it, the only thing that is cloned is the body and not the soul, as it can not be, being insubstantial.

Thats an interesting question ... It is a belief in some religions and one that I find facinating that the soul is made up of a collective concions (spelling) . That it is someway connected to every body as well as being an individual thing .
so as my soul wich resides both in my body and as a part of the collective conscience (second attempt :0) ) may also reside partly in someone else's body . This would mean that it would be possible to share the soul ether out amongst clones allowing them to have a soul also .
Perhaps even a new soul can be created when a birth takes place who knows , very interesting indeed .


Now I just have to get this darn Wizard of OZ song out of my head

P.S I still don't know how anybody will be able to tell for sure that they have Jesus's DNA.

not sure about the DNA either, but it was just an assumption

QUOTE (Kismit @ May 19 2003, 12:31 AM)

P.S I still don't know how anybody will be able to tell for sure that they have Jesus's DNA.

Exactly what I was thinking Kismet , Even if they did manage to get a sample from the 'Shroud', What the hell are they going to compare it to ?

Test