Before everyone gets there tin hats on and starts throwing grenades at me...YES I KNOW SPACE AS NO ATMOSPHERE - THIS IS JUST A QUESTION TIS ALL...

IF and i mean IF, you was to light a match in space which way up would the flame be?

I shall assume that you are referring to lighting a match where a match could actually be lit...aboard a spacecraft in microgravity...not in space, per se, where there's no oxygen to support combustion.

In that case, there is no "up", thus, you see no flame climbing vertically with the charateristic tongues licking upward as you do on Earth. The flame would be primarily spherical, with the heat incapable of rising. It would disapate outward in all directions from a basically sperical ball of fire which looks more like a ball of plasma rather than what we're used to seeing in 1 g.

Cool. thanks bud.

cool! I would love to see it. What if it was a big fire

You're welcome!

I suspect a really big ball of flame!

On Earth, gravity-driven buoyant convection causes a candle flame to be teardrop-shaped and carries soot to the flame's tip, making it yellow. In microgravity, where convective flows are absent, the flame is spherical, soot-free, and blue. (NASA)

Thanks...so how come this seperation photo shows a yellow flame?

If I'm not mistaken, rockets use Solid Rocket Fuel (SRF), this solid rocket fuel allows the rocket's engine to burn even with a lack of oxigen. That's how many of todays rockets get into orbit.

The shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters (SRB) also use this kind of fuel to produce propulsion.

Of course I could be wrong.

That fixes that.

There are several types of boosters. The Russians and Chinese use liquid fuels, as did Saturn rockets.



This is about that "yellow flame" (?) picture. I don't really uinderstand the question. Many rocket flames can also burn blue. There are retrorockets firing in that picture, adding to the exhaust profile.

"The Saturn I second stage, called S-IV, was powered by a Pratt and Whitney engine fuelled by LOX and liquid hydrogen.

In a typical Saturn V Apollo flight, the five F-1 first stage engines were ignited 6 sec before liftoff. The center F-1 engine was shut down 135 sec after launch and the outer four F-1 engines 15 sec later. One second following cutoff of the four outer F-1 engines, the first stage separated. Simultaneously, eight retrorockets were fired briefly to slow the first stage and prevent it bumping into the second stage. Following separation, the spent first stage fell into the Atlantic about 640 km downrange.

One second after first stage separation, eight solid-fueled motors mounted on the first/second stage adapter ring were fired for 4 sec. As well as maintaining the positive motion of the rocket, this forced the second stage fuel to the bottom of its tanks in order to feed the engines – a so-called ullage maneuver – and was the cue for the five J-2 second stage engines to ignite.

Thirty seconds later, the first/second stage adapter ring fell away, and six seconds after that, the escape tower was jettisoned. The second stage engines burned for 365 sec before the next separation took place.
Four solid-fueled retrorockets on the second stage fired to keep the second and third stages from colliding. Then the second stage began its drop into the Atlantic about 4,000 km from the launch site.

At this point, the Saturn V was traveling about 25,300 km/h at an altitude of 185 km. Two solid-fueled motors on the third stage aft skirt were fired briefly to settle the fuel and simultaneously, the S-IVB third stage J-2 engine fired up for a burn of 142 sec. This initial S-IVB burn carried Apollo into a 190-km orbit at a speed of 28,200 km/h.

Thirty seconds later, the first/second stage adapter ring fell away, and six seconds after that, the escape tower was jettisoned. The second stage engines burned for 365 sec before the next separation took place.

Four solid-fueled retrorockets on the second stage fired to keep the second and third stages from colliding. Then the second stage began its drop into the Atlantic about 4,000 km from the launch site.

At this point, the Saturn V was traveling about 25,300 km/h at an altitude of 185 km. Two solid-fueled motors on the third stage aft skirt were fired briefly to settle the fuel and simultaneously, the S-IVB third stage J-2 engine fired up for a burn of 142 sec. This initial S-IVB burn carried Apollo into a 190-km orbit at a speed of 28,200 km/h."

-David Darling


Video

Space Shutttle main engines (liquid fuel)- check out when they liftoff.

Video 2

My question asked how would a flame react in space, this was answered (thanks mid) then magnetar posted an image showing this, i then noticed that the flame was blue? and i remembered watching a seperation video and the flames shown are yellow?
You see magnetar it is you who as opened this debate up bud...hope you understand the original thread a little better now.

What have you been smoking? I did not debate anything. And, don't call me "bud".

And, I try to have some respect. Not talk "tough".

What is up with you?

Look. there are all kinds of rocket fuels, that burn different colors under various conditions. Some are blue, some are yellow, some are brilliant white.

No big deal. No debate was intiated, either.

You opened it up bud, and please do not attempt to make me change my way of being thank you very much. You talk of 'respect' pots and kettles comes to mind, especially when you reply with the comment, 'what you been smoking'.
Apology accepted though bud, you see bud, i call everyone bud, unless i really know them that is.
Thanks again.

Now now, behave, and lets stay on topic please.

I think perhaps a little clarification is needed.

When we're speaking of the blue spherical flame, we're speaking of combustion in an atmosphere under micro-gravity conditions, a continuous flame which is fed by oxygen atmosphere and a fuel. That's a flame's behavior "in space", or more properly put, in a spacecraft, or in any situation where you can reduce the gravity to near zero. In space, technically speaking (which means in vacuum), you won't be able to produce a sustained flame).

The picture shown (where you see the yellowish fire) is a frame of film from a Saturn V S2 stage interface camera which is showing a moment of the S1-S2 skirt sep (the big ring that connected the first and second stages of the Saturn V).

This film is showing some combustion taking place and immediately disappating in virtual vacuum. Essentially, you're seeing an explosive reaction between the very hot exhaust of the second stage engines, which are at this moment burning with full thrust (note no flames coming out of the bells), striking the inner lining of the skirt, and burning of the inner lining, paint, and whatever else is in there. You see immediate combustion and dissapation of this material in vacuum as you watch the film.

This is a very different type of combustion reaction than occurs when you light a flame in an atmosphere. You can't light a flame in vacuum.

Rocket engines, operating in vacuum, don't produce a sustained flame coming out the back end of the engine bells, because there is no atmosphere, but they can most certainly ignite something they come in contact with. However, you'll not see a blue ball of flame, which is a sign of sustained stable combustion in an atmosphere. You'll just see incomplete combustion of materials that disappates immediately.

an example of that would be the sun..

You have a point there, Belial. So, I apologize for implying anything. I should have just asked the right questions.

First, I put up a picture, and then it went offline. I had to do it over, finished that, and just posted some general information, nothing specific.

MID went the distance to explain everything, though. I tip my hat to him for all his efforts.

It's all good fun bud, - THERES NO OFFENCE INTENDED WITH MY USE OF THE WORD BUD -
i will put it into my siggy i think, lol.
And yes MID is good at saying things correctly, and he as the ability to make people understand his words, it works for me anyway.

Thank you, Magnetar...much appreciated!







Ditto to you, belial. Many thanks!

I would imagine there must be images of this somewhere. While it may be have seemed too dangerous to do this in a space station or shuttle, there are a great many opportunities for us to actually create a zero G environment and thus someone must've tried it. Without having seen it myself, I agree with the sphere idea, with the exception that it might not be a perfect sphere. Given matches, and even a typical lighter wouldn't distribute the flame (or even radiate heat) evenly. For a sphere of flame you would ether have to have an even dispersement of flame, or some external force keeping it spherical. Even the tiniest flare on the match would disrupt this. And even though this may be a very academic issue to certain physicist (meaning they would know for sure what the result would be without even having to see it), I for one would love to see tis first-hand.

I feel these are the kind of questions that got us the art, literature and science we have today, Belial. Thanks for posting it.

If that reply was just to be funny, then I apologize for my nerdy follow-up. It is a funny one-liner (had the conversation occurred IRL). But it is simplistic. If the question was, what would happen if you took an aneutronic fusion reactor to space, then, that might be the answer....

Caesius...
Post #7, previous page.
Magnetar has posted pictures of this phenomena.