Athiests are simply agnostics and claim not believe in God or religion.Yet they are bound by social trends, peer pressure, they a criterion for judging others, and more, all which constitute a way of living, and follow those ways religiously, thus without realising they are religous and follow a religion.

I believe Atheist are hated coz they think its norm to be so. Well the worlds population who believes in a god one way or another, far out number those who dont, therefore, atheism in a global view is the abnormal postion to have.

Oh please....


Why is that those who beleive seem to cast atheists as some immoral, senseless, uncaring, unfeeling creature?
Or is it only theists who love their children and others, and would not want to see them suffer ?
Someone "accountable to a higher power", in my opinion is MORE likely to push the button. With some illogical thought about "better to die now that suffer the torments of the antichrist". Or some other feeling about "going to god".
I was a theist for many years and know that if you beleive in heavenly rewards after this life, you have nothing to lose by pushing the button.......

People dislike Atheists, mostly due to the ignorance that is spread by the bible. People have a negetive outlook on Atheists because they do not understand our stance.

Are 'atheists' actually militant agnostics?

In the west, apart from some fundmentalist Christians, does anyone really care if you are an 'atheist'? (In justice courts you have a choice of swearing on a bible or just affirming.) And if they do, is it because you theoretically cannot threaten an atheist with the additional threat of God's Wrath?

A superior human being I know, 85 and a Holocaust survivor, not surprisingly became an atheist in the death camps.

Hehe wrote "Or maybe it is the inherent lack of humility and pompous self-righteous attitude displayed by so many of them. I also get the impression atheists think that all the rest of the theistic people are nuts and they are the only sane people...."
Some 'atheists' are quiet people who do not go around boring people with their unbelief - unlike some religious people who not only bore but irritate.
But there are those who behave as Hehe describe. There is no excuse really.

Though I am a Celtic Druid and I believe in many Gods and Goddesses I get a long much better with Atheist than I do with my friends of the Abrahamic religions. Atheists don't tell me I am going to hell, they don't knock on my door, they enjoy talking about science and after they get to know me and know I am not trying to assimilate they are some of the best friends I have. One Atheist friend Michigan calls me every Monday to check I am ok. My Buddhist Atheist friend and I spend a lot of time talking some really heavy subjects around a drumming fire every other weekend. My Atheist buddies I luv'em.

No...

Agnostic is the belief in a god, although they hold no religious grounds.

Atheist believe in no supernatural being governing lives. Thus including no religious grounds.

Atheist derives from the Greek term "Atheos" A = Without - Theos = god.

Believer- Definitely
Agnostic- Definitely maybe- is this confusion am I confusing you...'
Atheist- Definitely Not.

Of course, there are lots of 'middle grounds' inbetween, including agnostic atheist. I guess it depends on what your concept of GOD is.

Its because it is not the norm. Same for homophobia and racism.

People don't like change or difference.

Its an Ego thing...everybody wants to be right so everybody else has to be wrong. People have to put down other beliefs to make themselves seem right. We are threatened by the existence of either beliefs because deep down we know that they may be right and all this time we were wrong. People will go to extraordinary lengths to defend their beliefs and make sure everybody listens to them and nobody else.

This isn't exclusive to religion either it happens everywhere:
Atheism v.s. Theism
Democrat v.s. Republican
Star Wars v.s. Star Trek
P.C. v.s. Mac
Marvel Comics v.s. D.C. Comics
HD-DVD v.s Blu-Ray
Any of the video game console wars

Wow. Those guys are dedicated.

Is an Agnostic Atheist someone who can't decide whether they don't believe in god or not?

Atheists are not agnostics, nor do agnostics claim not to believe in any god or believe in any god. Agnostics are skeptics if you will. They are the "show me the evidence" people of the religious world, but they do not believe evidence, nor any god, cannot exist.



See above, Chok.

Hmm, when the topic starter (you) makes posts in other parts of the forum reading along the lines of:

I was thinking the question in this thread should be reversed, and ask why so many Atheists dislike or hate Christians.

But to answer your question, I don't think Atheists are any more or less moral than anyone else. I have read studies that show that in the U.S Atheists are the most hated group. Why this is, I cannot say. I have never lived in America, nor even been to visit. I live 20,000 miles away on the other side of the world, and over here in Australia, that problem just doesn't exist. So I can only give you my personal views on the matter, which is that atheists are human beings just like agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, and every other belief in existence. And as with humans, there are moral ones and immoral ones, and that also goes for all people of all beliefs.

All the best,

~ Regards, PA

You cannot tell people that 1+1 = 3 without mathematicians going nuts.
You cannot tell people that Bach was a painter without musicians going nuts.
You cannot tell people that the holocaust never happened without Jews going nuts.
You cannot tell people that the Big Bang Theory is a lie and that god did it, without atheists going nuts.

What you described are agnostic-theists : Who identify themselves first as agnostic, then secondly a follower of a particular religion/religious sect.

Agnostics have no religion in particular, but are unknowing whether god exists or not. Agnostic is a philosophical greek term for "unknowing", hence its usage of today.

I could have read your post wrong, I'm multitasking. But from what I got of it, you were describing agnostic-theists~

Right, which means they don't actually believe there is a god, they just accept that as being a possibility.

Atheists are not militant agnostics; though, I can see how some theists might make that mistake.

The choice of "affirming" one's testimony was started in response to Quakers who refused to swear oaths, citing a Bible passage to the effect that one should not lie - ever - and an oath implies that it is OK to lie when one is not under oath. One Quaker, when asked whether he would swear or affirm, replied "I neither swear nor affirm. I tell the truth." The judge found that to be acceptable.
Doug

As an agnostic, I feel that there is inadequate evidence to conclude that there is a god. There may be one, but the evidence does not justify that conclusion. The atheist has the problem of proving a negative; as this is nearly impossible, he is in the same position as the theist.

Personally, I find atheists to be a lot less obnoxious than fundamentalist Christians. No atheist has ever told me I couldn't put a six-pointed star on my Christmas tree (Yes, I have a Christmas tree.), but you should have heard the furor that touched off among my "Christian" neighbors.
Doug

P.S.: If you believe in an eternal paradice, what would be wrong about helping someone to that destination to killing them? Maybe that's why Christians like war so much.
Doug

My originial sentence was:


I doubt that many do. You can respect people reguardless of their political views, their taste in music or art, or in this case, religion. Just because you hate the music someone listens to, doesn't mean you hate the person themselves. Although you would start to if they start playing their bad music at public places (or any of the millions of other negative things that result from religion which can't be explained by this analogy).


Indeed, but religion does encourage much hatred which would not otherwise occur.

You are making a big assumption that is wrong JMPD. Being accountable has no bearing whatsoever on morals or caring for others. I have known many atheists and some are more moral than the Christians I know.
Being accountable to oneself is limited to a mortal existence and perhaps toward future generations, being accountable to a higher being, forces you to look at an even bigger picture. An American president is one of the highest positions a human can hold, what I am saying is I am more comfortable with some one who knows he is not the king of the hill than someone who has no one to answer to but his own dreams and ambitions whether moral or not.

A Believer = believes there is a God by faith because there is no other proof.

An agnostic = Does not rule out the possibility of a God and remains uncertain.

An Atheist = believes there is No God by faith because there is no other proof.

I don't really disagree with your summation but I will note, what I fear from fundamentalist religious leader of any ilk (and I put Bush in that category) is the inherent, pre-ordained excuse for their actions that, while obviously immoral to most, can be not viewed as immoral to them due to beliefs in their religions inerancy or the inerancy of their interpretation of it, anyway. Or worse, like a Bush and others, when they think they're god is directly speaking to them.

You seem to forget that the president can't do what he wants (unless it's a dictatorship, which the USA isn't).

And an atheist doesn't believe in god because the chance of there being a god is merely philosophical - one in infinity- and therefore disreguard it. An agnostic recognizes the one in infinity chance. A believer belives in god DESPITE the fact that there is no proof to the contrary and DESPITE the infintesimal chance, that is to say because of blind faith.

You know Irish, Joey, has a good point, the whole christian construct has created a god that is not accountable and many follow suit... Beleiving on faith has become harmful in implementation in many cases..


When one connvinces another that they are flawed in worth and evil naturally you are gonna have problems... One who has a basic trust( even genuine faith in something, this would not be fear induced) would not allow for or accept negative ideas in any form as they know they create behaviors, .I agree you dont' need to be christian to believe you are flawed or a mistake..plenty of people do.....

yes, yes it does. and it causes problems.

What do you mean you arent sure?? what is it you arent so sure about??


I dont sit and discuss peoples personal private beliefs because it doesnt interest me..and what would I seriously benefit from all of this - being ever so nosey???

I am 100% against jesus and the bible...so out of respect for my friends I am not going to all of a sudden sit and chat about who believes in what <-----what is the point??? especially when you know they come from catholic & protestant families...so why would I even RISK my friendship y getting ohh so freaking nosey???

Cor your fiery ain't you. I guess my friends are just more easy going about such things. Ho hum.

So sue me lol

Guinness is stinking...it leaves a foul taste behind...

When they go to make home made Irish stew, Guinness is used as an added ingredient ..and thats what puts me off...it........REAKS!!!!

The same reason as to why you dont like to use reading glasses or stylish humor

you throw a joke ...............now its MY turn

If some and few where the same...(that dont exactly make sense ) ..then why didnt you use the SAME word???

I myself have a very religious view of the world. My dad is an atheist and we get on fine. I love him so much. I accept he has his views and vice versa.




My dad makes fun of religion but then again so do I

Well if you sit and discuss your religious beliefs and differences of race knowing fine well they are the complete opposite from YOU..then I find it sad

there are better things to talk about.....................SERIOUSLY

If I were gay..and a friend of mine told me they were against gays....well then WTF is the point in me hanging around someone who is against me???

What's the point in hanging around with someone you're afraid to actually talk to?

You can debate an opinion without insulting the person...

Ahhh I think I now know the reason why you don't discuss it.

I have a friend who is a satanist, i am able to respect that his beliefs are not the same as mine and I don't feel the need to avoid him. Dont get the impression that I only discuss religious beleifs with my friends, i was mearly stating that such topics of conversation would not be off limits. I myself do not follow any organised religion as I find them all a little bit restrictive. Like I say, it must just be that my friends are easy going. It's not really a problem at this end Becky's mom, is it problem at your end?

What is the point in talking about your personal beliefs .....does the word PERSONAL mean anything to you???

So you sit nearly each chance you get and talk religion?? what is the point??

Have you nothing else to talk about??

If deep down inside you...you were against muslims...and a muslim guy has joined your friends group.........and you get along with him...he is a nice guy..........are you going to tell him how you really feel about muslims??? IF so WHY??? is there any point??? wtf for??

Why cant you leave well enough ALONE??? WHY??

Who said anything about AVOIDING THEM??


My friends dont drum up conversations about religion...so why the feeeck should I??? whats the point??

We have better things to talk about...

So again..I ask you..if my friends DONT..then why on gods green earth should I???????????????

the word tactful means what??

I find all of this funny...because if each of us was to actually post word for word how we ALL really felt about certain faiths ect...we would get banned instantly

and here we have those that claim naahhhh its best to do it..


UMM being tactful is helpful

I didn't say that anywhere. There are other things I'd much rather talk about, but if the subject comes up I'm not going to quickly change the topic because I'm worried about offending one of my friends.



Am I missing something? I didn't think anyone was talking about bigotry.

I don't really like religion in general, that doesn't mean I won't like a person who is religious. A lot of my friends are religious (from all different faiths) and if the topic comes up I can tell them straight up, then they can give their opinion on why they're happy with it, it's all good.



Like I said before, you can attack an opinion without attacking the person. No harm done.

Well being tactful and thinking of others ...might help...like if you -- Listen guys I can see you all worship Jesus BLAH...I feel if I spoke my true feelings it might go in the wrong direction...so because I value my friendship....I prefer to talk about other things...


I DID...if you bothered to read previously..I said to godofcats about IE GAYS <---a lot of bigots like to do nothing more than to slam them..so yes Raptor you did miss it...because I meant the whole thing...I even added a joke and said - those that eat marmite LOL ..but i meant the works



What has anything I said...got to do with ever liking anyone??? I never insinuated anything of the sort....all I spoke about was ...being tactful...NOT about who you like as a friend!!!!!



UNLESS you are all from the same group of faith...gimme one good reason as to WHY anyone would want to drag up religion issues??? WHY would they do that?? What would be the point?? especially when it can be a touchy subject!!!


If you attack a christians opinion on what they LOVE to talk about - JESUS...then you may as well attack them....heck raptor you of all people should know, that when you give your opinions on the board..you have been accused of attacking ...even though you never felt you were being harmful...it never stopped anyone from blasting persecution at you

If you think for a split sec that a group of people from all walks of life..are all going to sit and have a friendly talk about their different opinions ..even the OPINION you are attacking...is going to be all rosey...think again

thats WHY I always say..its best to avioud any of it..that way your friendship stays put

If you are against gays..and you had a new guy befriend you..you find out he is gay and all of a sudden he talks about it...are you going to tell me that you will come right out and tell him how you really feel...and think all of a sudden he will want to be your friend??? if so...I think you need to think again

Wait...did you really just tell me that you were talking about bigotry, then say that you weren't talking about liking people or not; all in the same breath? Seems contradictory to me.



It isn't a touchy subject for me or my friends at all , that's my point.



If your friendship is so frail that it's going to be torn apart over something so little, well, there must not be a friendship there to tear apart in the first place.



I'm not bigoted so I don't even need to consider that. If I was then you're right, I wouldn't bring it to their attention, but that's entirely different to what I'm talking about.

Like I said to you before and I will do so again....- If you were actually following this whole thing up untill NOW..then you would see exactly what I was talking about

so as on page 6..where I began to mention it to another member...you failed to read it..and you continued to try and defend chok...if you were paying FULL attention to what I was getting at...like this below......



On page 6 of this thread...I made a point on mentioning anything that people can get touchy about..and I mean ANYTHING...gays religion ....AKA anything..I only named a few things but I believe others can see I didnt just aim it at RELIGION...

Talking about liking someone...is different...you can like anyone..as long as you stay clear of talking about what they do or who they really are that you dont like


So you have friends that arent that religious and dont take it that serious at all?? is that it??? if so then YES i see your point...but IF you are not saying that..and you are trying to convince me that you have friends that are SERIOUS about their walks of life...and its never a touchy subject when you attack their opinions on the matter....then I dont believe you when you try and tell me all is dandy


What makes YOU assume my friendship is so frail??? How would YOU know this?? If being tactful and considerate of other peoples feelings on what they do and how they live...is wrong..then its you that has a problem...................NOT ME ..I have friendships with others I know..because I STAY CLEAR of talking about religious ideas and opinions...we have BETTER stuff to talk about...this is frail because????????? ohh please please answer that one

In Northern Ireland growing up with IRA terrorism and loyalist terrorism...dont you think its..............................SAFE to stay clear of it?? yes?? NO??


Well I find this hard to believe...because the entire time, I was talking about ALL of it...gays, religion anything that can cause ill feelings..and here you are..admitting you would stay clear of THIS.... interesting ...so you are talking purely about just religion..when I have told you over and over I am talking about ALL WALKS OF LIFE!!!

See raptor if you bothered to listen ,...it would help ...

I did read what you were saying, it's not my fault it didn't make sense. You mentioned bigotry, then you began talking about friends, so it would logically follow that you were no longer talking about bigotry because, well, they're your friends! How could you be friends with someone if you were prejudiced against them? That would defeat the purpose of the prejudice.



You don't need to, I'm just telling you how it is.



I didn't make any assumptions saying your friendships are frail, I said if friends can fall our over something like that then in my opinion, they mustn't good friends to begin with. I stand by that.



That sounds so ridiculous I don't know if I actually need to refute it.

You admit that you only remain friends with these people because you hold things back? That if they knew how you really felt they wouldn't befriend you? The frailty seems pretty self-evident to me.



No, you're just reading what you want to see. If you bothered to listen...

I said I would steer clear of bigotry, i.e. any form of prejudice. If I were prejudiced and didn't like someone because they were [anything], of course I wouldn't bring that up; but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about disliking someone because of their religion, political views, ethical views, diet or favourite movie. I am talking about disagreeing with their religion, political views, ethical views, favourite movie. The view, not the person.

Looks like a few here are very willing to discuss religion on the net but not with people face to face. Seems rather silly. Then wait what are the to subjects that they say are taboo? Politics and religion, I never got that really, those are two of the best topics to talk about. I like what others have to say about there beliefs and how the came to believe what they believe. I share my beliefs as well but only to those that can accept them for what they are (beliefs). Why has this thread all of a sudden become a topic of tact ? Why can't one talk tactfully about religion with there friends, and if there your friends throw a jab or two in and laugh about it.

The word tactful means: showing skill and sensitivity in dealing with people. Based on some of your posts I am not surprised you asked for clarification. Happy to oblige.




I will post word for word what I think about you Becky's mom: I think you take offence where none is intended and I think that to have a discussion with you will only be productive if it goes your way. That opinion is based solely on the last couple of pages of this thread. If that offends you I make no apology for it and if i have a question about any of your posts in the future I will have the good sense to just not bother asking. Thanks for your time though.

I haven't made my way thru the thread yet so forgive me if these points have been addressed. Please understand that I am not directing any of this towards this particular or any particular poster. These ideas are everywhere.

I am an atheist. Now I will address what I see as misconceptions.



I would never withold aid or comfort based on a persons belief system.
I would never hurt another based their belief system.
I will not stand on a corner or come to your door threatening you regarding your belief system.
I do not believe that I have a "do over". If I hurt someone I have to fix it. Not ask a deity to doit. I am wholly responsible for my actions and reparations.
I don't ask that you believe any way. I simply ask that you respect my belief and be kind and tolerant. To everyone.

thanks

HN

As an atheist, I am answerable/accountable to today's and tomorrow's society. Everyone.

HN

I agree with Silver Thong, religion and politics are two of the best subjects to discuss! I try to make the most of living in a fairly tolerant democratic society. You only learn about things by discussing them, as we are now. Political systems and religion in a practical sense comes down to "how are we to live". We live in communities, we the people make the laws that we live by - how can we live good lives if we don't ascertain what a good life is first?

I would rather talk to my friends about how the world came to be rather than what brand of dishing up liquid is best. But hey like is attracted to like so maybe that's what it's all down to really.

Edit: Hey maybe the above answers why people don't like atheists! he he he!

Actually, you can have friends who have completely opposite beliefs and remain friends.

Let me see if I can give an example.

I have a friend that is a complete gun NUT. He loves firearms of all kinds, he's almost obsessive about them in my opinion. He's also in law enforcement, and his gun ownership and usage is all legal to the letter of the law.

Now, I don't like guns, I never have, and I honestly don't want anything to do with them. However, he's doing everything legally, and while it's legal I don't say too much about it. I can say, he and I will never vote for the same gun control laws. So be it. He and I agree to disagree on this point.

This summer, he and I took a weekend trip to his summer home in a remote area of our state. Half way to the cabin he wanted to stop and play target practice. I simply asked him to drop me off at the trail head with my book and a bottle of water, and to swing around and pick me up when he was done. He tried to cajole me into coming up the trail with him, to take video, to help him pack and unpack his gear... whatever, I said no, I meant it, and he understood. He didn't like it, but he RESPECTED the fact that I wanted nothing to do with it, and I RESPECTED the fact that he should be able to do something that's entirely legal.

Respecting something isn't the same as condoning it. And it certainly doesn't mean I have to participate in something I'm inherently against.

the only reason we all can agree on is this, people hate atheist because there is just some people who hate atheist. for whatever reason, it's not going to stop. just like there will always be people who hate somebody because of race, gender, religion, or even just by how ugly somebody is or isn't. there is no good reason why people hate atheist, there is no good reason why anybody hates anybody. the only reason is being human.

With my friends and I anything is up for discussion and debate, from sex to religion to politics, then usually back to sex again. If someone is not interested in discussing personal aspects of their life then they are not really your friend, they are an aquaintance. Part of friendship is opening up your true self, not hiding behind a veil of etiquette.

you're saying just because somebody doesn't want to share their sex life they arn't your friend? hell, i better start asking my friends about that stuff to see who is really my true friend then.

Hey Thong,

While I agree with everything you are saying here, in the world I live in an atheist would be wise to avoid discussing her/his personal lack of belief in all professional situations and in certain social circumstances.