I'm studying everything I can about 9/11 and alqaeda...which didnt come about till 1999...I've come to the conclusion that this is just some big game dreamed up at HQ....and that the CIA is really alqaeda...they create the terror, then fight the terror...any thoughts or info on this clandestine agency?...when hayden said he destroyed the tapes to protect the agents? ..i think he really meant it...to protect the alqaeda/cia agents...

I suppose it would keep the cia in employment but it would have to be a fairly global conspiracy involving most of the worlds intelligence agencies, media or both.

not really...the CIA is all compartmentalized....you could have one group creating the terror..and guys in another office fighting it...trust me the CIA is alqaeda...and it's gonna be proven one day...soon!

You seem to think i was disagreeing with you. Perhaps i've developed literary dyslexia and am actually typing something different to what i think i am.

I agree with the OP - I think at some level, al Qaeda and the CIA are indistinguishable.

The point you raise, 1.618, is interesting and often cited as evidence against such a theory. But there are two things to bear in mind:

1. Every intelligence agency around the world bar none has its dirty little secrets - a great many of them likely criminal in nature. This criminality is kept from the public domain by, dare I say, a conspiracy of silence. The moment one breaks the pact, the whole lot risks being exposed.

2. Further, the people responsible for developing and approving the strategy have a warped mindset compared to the general public. They're either acting out of self-interest or else in the genuine belief that the acts they are committing serve an ultimately beneficial or noble purpose. You might want to look into the philosophies of Carl Schmitt and Leo Strauss to find out more about the concept of 'noble lies' and about the extent to which these guys have helped shape the thinking of much of America's policy-makers.

Its funny you should say that, I get the same impression to.

I remember a very large Mosque in Iraq that was blown up by suspected Shi'ites, although the Mosque was guarded by American soldiers and people were searched as they entered the mosque. Some how this mosque was blown to bits, it looked like a perfect explosion that must have used an awful lot of explosives. It was more like a demolition explosion than a terrorist explosion?

America often use the term Al Qaeda for almost every terrorist incursion now and yet you can see the headlines of a newspaper from as far away as a satellite and they still cant find Asama Bin Ladan?

I didn't have any problem finding myself using 'google earth' by satellite, there I was sitting in my garden in a pair of blue jeans and a dark blue fleece.

they will never find usama...he's dead..he only lives as a CIA leader, of their alqaeda....it's all an illusion to continue the war...never has the wool been pulled over the worlds eyes like this...

I heard the galactic federation is going to fight cia-alqaeda?...it will be a secret war....

They all work for each other, in a round about way

all alqaeda is the enemy...even cialqaeda. they used to work together...the CIA turned on the GF...hence they will have to fight...

I just have one question:

How does the CIA get all those CIA 'agents' to blow themselves up like that?....must be a reaaaally in depth training program!

mind control...microchipped killers....

How does one keep a 'galactic war' a secret?

stealth....

get a good laugh as you watch your latest fake binladen tape to keep the fear alive...enjoy..

As unlimited suggested, mind control is one possibility. Another, is to infiltrate radical groups and co-op their activities for a covert purpose. In other words, there are people who are willing to die for their cause or religion and there are those who will use such people to further their own agenda. An example is how the british intelligence services provided information and supported the IRA to attack british targets in Northren Ireland, through the use of moles. This was inline with the IRA's campian against the british, however it also provided justification for the british to continue a military presence to counter the "threat of violence". So, while a suicide bomber will genuinely believe in his own cause and be willing to die for it, through the "handling" of what are basicaly "double agents" the suicide attack fuels the flames to further the agenda of the other side. Its not so much that the suicide bombers are CIA agents themselves, they can be devote radicals who don't have the means or knowledge to organize an attack on their own or dim-witted dupes who don't realize what they are really involved in.

good post midg...trust me a microchipped drugged up suicide bomber can become a reality..and like you said you just find willing jihadists; and supply them with the material and opportunity...

That's a fairly succinct way of putting it.

On the subject of the thread, I don't believe it's quite fair to lay all responsibility on the CIA, especially as so many other intelligence agencies such as Pakistan's ISI and the British military have played this nasty little game. It seems to be an old strategy, and has been used for decades, possibly centuries by many governments.

I like to call it; create the evil..then fight the evil...you play both sides, to create your own war....profit potential is the moon...

It seems like such a good idea, that I doubt that it's new, I wonder if there are other historical incidences of it to compare to. I used to have a copy of The Prince by Machiavelli, but a boyfriend borrowed it and still has it. Anyone know if a similiar strategy is mentioned by Machiavelli, or Sun Tsu, or someone like that?

no i think this playbook came about in WW1...perpetual war for perpetual profit...jockey up and get a job in the defense industry...

And your proof of these fake videos/images are where bud?

You're kidding me ! Are you SERIOUSLY going to pretend that those fake videos are real?!

Just for starters, Osama bin Laden is long dead.

White House Gets Defensive Over Accusation Bin Laden Is Dead
Usually obedient press corps ask how a dying man on a dialysis machine can survive in remote Pakistani hill caves for six years
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2...inladendead.htm

Of course, the news of Osama bin Laden being dead came out nearly six years ago. a report from FOX NEWS

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

1~ Osama bin Laden is NOT on the FBI most wanted list in connection with 911. Why not? According to FBI spokesman, Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb, “The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4673 http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm (accessed 20 August 2006)

2~ Osama bin Laden is long D E A D. He died on the 16th December 2001, and this was reported throughout Asia and the Middle East about ten days later. Some members of his family attended his funeral in Afghanistan. He died from kidney failure and a lung infection.

Tragically, some people want to continue to PRETEND that Osama bin Laden is alive. Losing Osama must've been very traumatic for them.

According to the Pakistani press, and the Egyptian newspaper, al-Wafd, (Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633) Bin Laden died in December 2001 of pulmonary complications incident to catastrophic kidney failure, in the absence of available hygienic dialysis.

The Egyptian newspaper al-Wafd published an article dated Wednesday, December 26, 2001, (Vol 15 No 4633) describing bin Laden's funeral:
"News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral 10 days ago
ISLAMABAD - A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. ..."


This is a scan of Osama bin Laden's funeral notice

Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen TEL AVIV - Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said. The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are probably FABRICATIONS, Middle East Newsline reported.

(CNN, Oct 7, 2002) KABUL, Afghanistan - Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead, but former Taliban leader Mullah Omar is alive, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said.

(BBC, 18 July 2002) The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead.

Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen
http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_terrorism_10_16.html
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funer...srael-intel.txt


Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader. "The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December [2001] and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/...todaysheadlines


Anyone with a brain can recognise that this Mr Fat Nose (ON THE LEFT) from the 2001 fake confession video is not the REAL Osama bin Laden (ON THE RIGHT).

fake video, OBVIOUSLY.

Some more pictures for comparison of the FAKE "confession video" Mr Fat Nose compared to REAL Osama bin Laden

Even half-blind Mr Magoo would have to say that Osama 'E' stands out like a sore thumb, and this is the man on the "confession" tape. Between the nose and the cheeks it is clear that this man is NOT Osama.

As Riaz Durrani, a spokesman for Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, which spearheaded pro-Taliban rallies in Pakistan, said back in 2001 about the above tape: "This videotape is not authentic. The Americans made it up after failing to get any evidence against Osama."

Do you really believe that he dyed his beard black (despite Islamic laws) and why is it even BLURRIERl?!

The 2004 "Osama" was fake too -
below is 2004 fake Osama bin Laden vs real Osama bin Laden. Unless you believe that Osama has a shapechanging head and nose too.



Old bin Laden tapes, sent as new tape
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/nov-tape.txt


Proof Bin Laden Tape Is 5-Year-Old, Re-Released Footage
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2...7oldfootage.htm


Lab confirms voice tapes are fake
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/swiss-lab.txt

Religious people frequently go on blind faith believing their great messiah is still alive, but you know, Elvis is still dead, Jimmy Hoffa is still dead, and Osama bin Laden is still dead. That's despite confused pretenders claiming them to be still alive.

As I said, very sad.

Of course, the US media has taken awhile to catch up with news in Arabic; maybe they lack decent translators? Or it wilful denial of facts? Rather like the US media willfully denied the lack of evidence that the USA and UK govts were lying through their teeth about WMDs in Iraq. They really can't be trusted, can they?

Do you recall what Walter Cronkite said about it last time some suspiciously convenient Osama bin Laden video came out?

On October 29, 2004, Larry King interviewed Walter Cronkite on CNN. This is what Cronkite said after seeing the video; "....I'm a little inclined to think that Karl Rove, the political manager at the White House, who is a very clever man, he probably set up bin Laden to this thing...."

Also here
Walter Cronkite: Karl Rove "Probably Set Up bin Laden" Video

good post lovey...the guy is dead and the CIA is keeping him alive....they should be shut down!..

I just hate to see ignorance everywhere

I have always believed that Osama was dead....no one anywhere in the remote vicinity of Tora Bora could have escaped. You don't escape nuclear war from ground zero and that's pretty much what Tora Bora was.

And I do believe that the CIA is not going to let him die....but that doesn't mean they are AlQueda. It is obvious why they wouldn't want him dead. As long as he is alive giving orders...those orders can be manipulated anyway the CIA wants...thusly guiding the terrorists into trap after trap after trap...leading them around by their nose so to speak...what you and I cannot see in the video (even the real one's) are the coded messages embedded within.

If Osama was declared dead then AlQueda would just have another Osama rise to the top....as long as he is alive (in their minds) that doesn't happen which keeps them from reorganizing to the point they might otherwise.

Don't be too sure of that.

Many intelligence agencies like to play the game of being Al Queda

1. We have MI5 (British CIA) posing as Alqueda.
"Al-Qaeda cleric exposed as an MI5 double agent", http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly...1050175,00.html

2. We have Mossad (Israel CIA) posing as ALqueda in Palestine: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/2949idf_qaeda.html
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j120902.html
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/palestinia...eda_poseurs.htm
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/Sh...p;itemNo=241042
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/terrorist.html

3. We have USA posing as Alqueda:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html

The FBI lists Gadahn's aliases as Abu Suhayb Al-Amriki, Abu Suhayb, Yihya Majadin Adams, Adam Pearlman, and Yayah. But Adam Pearlmen is his REAL name! Adam is the grandson of the late Carl K. Pearlman; a prominent Jewish urologist in Orange County. Carl was also a member of the board of directors of the Anti-Defamation League, which was caught spying on Americans for Israel in 1993, much as AIPAC has been caught up in the more recent spy scandal.

3. We have israel posing as alqueda in the phillipines.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/qaeda_philippines.html
http://www.mb.com.ph/PROV2004061411759.html

4. British SAS posing as Iraqi Insurgants:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/424614.stm

The two British operatives, arrested by Basra police and later freed by a British military operation, were identified by the BBC as "members of the SAS elite special forces" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/424614.stm). They were disguised by wigs and Arab dress. Iraqi sources reported that the Iraqi police were watching the two, and when they tried to approach them they shot two policemen and tried to escape the scene. The Iraqi police chased and captured them, to discover large amount of explosives planted in the car, which apparently was planned to be remotely detonated in the busy market of Basra. The SAS involvement in Iraq was discovered on the 30th of January 2005 when an RAF Hercules plane crashed near Baghdad killing then British servicemen after dropping off fifty SAS members north of Baghdad to fight Iraqi guerillas.


Mossad agents arrested by the PA for attempting to set up phony 'al Qaeda' cells in the Gaza Strip.

have you seen the film men in black

Now thats what I like to hear Unlimited.

Its the truth: After the demise of the Soviets and the evil Communists we needed another enemy to justify our outrageous Pentagon budget and aggressive Foreign policy.

And how lucky for the Neocons, they got their "pearl harbor type event" and their new enemy.

It does seem just a little too orchestrated now doesn't it.

Bin laden has been dead for a very long time in my opinion. There are obviousely more than one person being photographed over the past years...I cant say who is behind that for sure; I do not trust my own government to tell the truth, but it just seems to me that he has been dead and somebody has been trying to keep him alive for obvious reasons...

It seems to me that it's Al Quada that stands the most to gain from keeping their hero leader *alive*?

But they don't have anything to gain by making videos and audios that always seem to support Bush's interests.

It would seem that way, but the logic they are using is to keep fear alive ..to sell bombs...

The CIA isnt alqeada... they are extremly worse...The CIA has been terrorizing countries for decades.

Alqaeda or the "base", is just one of their splinter groups to foment hate against muslims...

Yes...see, the CIA set up The Ayatola Kohmeini back in the 70's and had him 'take' American Hostages and keep them for a year or so...because they knew that therewould be a Muslim backlash...see? And boy were they right...the CIA has kept the Radical Muslim Movement alive by fomenting hate towards Muslims...they (the CIA) have enticed families to give the okay to their sons and daughters to blow themselves up and have even paid them big bucks to do so through their agent Sadaam...but then they needed to take out Sadaam to further the fomenting of hate against Muslims and so they invaded Iraq because they knew for sure that outrage against the Muslims would be at an all time high see? ANd they were right....now they want to go in and mess up that nice little country of Iran again because they want to keep the hate of the Muslim alive...why? So they can eventually wind up with Bush as King of the World and then they can steal all of Saudi Arabias oil and then .............

and then.........the foment of hate against the Muslim will be complete and it will finally be the right time to foment hate against the Chinese...look out China...here comes the CIA!

It's difficult to figure out if ya'll think this is the most diabolically ingenious government we've ever had or the most idiotically inept...

The CIA, which is controlled by the PTB at large, International Bankers, The money powered, etc.. have for at least 70 years committed mass genocide covertly. All this too bring about the fruition of what is to become, WW3. The foundation setters, so to speak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VxnCBD9W4...feature=related


The American people are not like this mentality of destroying other nations, the world is being brainwashed to believe so, just like the Roman Empire.

I think the majority of people have a hard time wrapping their heads around whats going on. I agree, the only place the war on terrorism is going to lead, is to ww3 and I have a difficult time seeing how the United State will be the victor.

I have a difficult time seeing how anyone would be the victor of a Nuclear War...which is what WWIII would eventually become. So, then why would anyone push toward a war where everyone loses?
Like Michelle pondered: is it genius or idiocy?

The closer truth is this...the CIA isn't covertly creating terrorism all over the world. If ya'll can pull the blanket of conspiracy off your face for a second I'll explain why:

Murder and chaos are not new to the planet via America or the CIA...The Middle Ages were an extremely violent era for humanity. Before that cave men beat each other in the heads with big sticks.

Hate and violence are the earmark...not of the CIA ...but rather of mankind itself. The Arabs have been hating and killing the Jews forever...and vice versa....suddenly OIL is in the picture...and the countries that previously were only equipped to kill each other with swords and such had the money and power to implement destruction in a variety of ways...nerve gas...etc.

What we have in reality is a world full of hate and weapons. The CIA didn't create it...it evolved out of the reality of a world full of hate and big sticks. The CIA has a job to do...and that is to keep the Haters with Big Sticks from beating America in the head. They didn't create Al Queda...they didn't create the 911 attacks...they FAILED in their jobs to keep the HATERS with BIG STICKS from beating America in the back of the head!

The CIA is NOT our enemy folks....they are our PROTECTORS against a world filled with Hate and Weapons. America didn't create the hate. It existed long before The AMericas were even populated.

You may now pull the blankets of conspiracy back down over your faces and march on into Paranoic Obscurity...

...thank you for listening...
Peace/Out

I think the differance now is that we don't have (at least it isn't the problem, globaly speeking) people clubbing each other over the head for what they need/want on a individual level. Now, the conflicts on the global level are fueled by the same mentality but by people who want to control regions and form monopolies. All you have to do is sell it to the same thick-headed little guy that has been clubbing away at his neighbor since time began.

Unfortunatly, this sort of thing is historical fact. If you haven't allready looked into it, you might find operation gladio an interesting example -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

There is a great Herman Goering quote on this subject. However, I have posted it here so meny times I think I should only make mention of it this time.

You are right that America didn't create hate. However, I haven't really seen anything which would lead me to believe the CIA is our "protectors". What are your feelings about the CFR?

I read much of the Wikipedia article. I don't know what in that is fact or fiction. Neither do you. How could any of us really know? I suppose it could all be true....I always suppose most of it could be fabricated.

Whatever it is.....

....the strategic war on terror seems to be working....

....an nuclear explosion in Downtown Chicago might change my mind on that however...

I am not familiar with the CFR so I couldn't really voice an intelligent opinion.

You are alleging what? And, your proof is what? And, what are you afraid of, in this instance, or these instances?

Is there some magazine that publishes this information? Or, a book?

Actually, I would like to ask this. What credible information---credible--- information ties Bin Laden to the U.S.A. or its agencies.

I've been reading this allegation. So have you, apparently.

What would convince me that he actually sat down and conversed with, and accepted help from, or worked with american services?

And, I mean credible.

Thanks.

Well, a more recent example would be George Orwell in his book "1984", which depicts life in an authoritarian police state. One of the tactics used by the state to keep the citizens in line is to be in a perpetual state of warfare with one or another of it's neighbours.


It's a common tactic for security services (and, in the case of a war/insurgency, the army) to attempt to infiltrate hostile groups Lovelynice. They aren't running the aforementioned groups, but trying to get information to destory - or marginalise - the group.

In the case of the MI5 agent above (sadly, the link is broken), well.... MI5 operates only within the UK. Therefore the Al-Qaeda cleric you refer to would have also been operating in the UK. (some of these WHERE discovered - or where suspected of - preaching hatred in London Mosques in order to recruit members, and hence where a legitimate 'item of interest' to the security services).

Meow Purr.

Did the CIA protect you on 9/11?...the CIA, Mossad.and ISI all have questions to be answered...

That's a bit harsh Unlimited. You might as well say - in context of the OP - "the police didn't prevent me from being burgled, therefore the police are actually SUPPORTING the burglers".

Anyway, did the 9/11 hijackers do anything in their OWN countries to alert the CIA ? Most of the training and planning was done within the USA itself... which should surely have been an FBI responsibility ? (indeed, I gather one of the flight instructors DID contact the FBI with his suspicions, but it was not followed up in time).

Perhaps the CIA where also 'controlling' Admiral Chuichi Nagumo ? Perhaps the IJN 1st Air Fleet was built in a secret CIA naval base in North Dakota ?

The fact that the CIA didn't exist in 1941 would surely be NO impediment to such a powerful organisation ?

Meow Purr.

A bit harsh unless you were one of attas targets like I was....ok lets play, it wasnt the CIA it was the NSA...they operate in tandem..these could possibly be the most dangerous people on earth...I've been around the block with them a few times...

You always seem to have some kind of weird stuff happen to you don't you. I mean you just cant have a normal life like anyone else can you?