So what does this mean? I guess we are on the verge of an Energy Shift... hence "The Shift of the Ages" !



"A new infra red digital survey of the entire sky was made in 2003. Teams from the universities of Virginia and Massachusetts used a supercomputer to sort through half a billion stars to create a -- NEW STAR MAP showing our Solar System to be at the exact nexus crossroads where two galaxies are actually joining.

Matthew Perkins Erwin, an independent researcher began studying the new map in 2006 and made what are coming to be called the 3 most pivotal discoveries of our time:

DISCOVERY OF MAY 30th 2006: We are from another galaxy in the process of joining with the Milky Way. The Milky Way is actually not our parent galaxy. The mystery of why the Milky Way has always been sideways in the night sky has never been answered -- until now.

We are part of a smaller galaxy that the Milky Way has put the 'come hither' on and we are just now coming down even with and going to actually turn and join with the Milky way after some 2 billion years of circling around it at a near right angle as part of our parent galaxy called the Sagittarius Dwarf.

DISCOVERY OF JULY 20th 2006: The overall biggest contributing cause to Global Warming, and the melting of the polar icecaps of -- both -- Earth and Mars is actually caused by our arrival down into the brighter, more energetic equator region of the Milky Way galactic disc as we are coming in from deeper space.

CHANGES-- FROM THE TOP DOWN:

While the rising atmospheric carbon dioxide levels cyclically charted by such scientists and researchers as quoted by Al Gore are powerful indicators, and even possible contributors to the unmistakable levels of climate and other changes, and pollution from the choices man has made are an increasing burden to the ecosystem of the planet, the larger cause of global warming by far is the first time in history event of the permanent merging of Earth and the Solar System with the higher energy state equatorial-orbital-disc region of the spiral armed Milky Way Galaxy.

DISCOVERY OF NOVEMBER 30th 2006: The real reasons for both global warming and the ending of the Mayan calendar in 2012. We are part of a smaller galaxy that the Milky Way has put the 'come hither' on and we are just now coming down even with and going to actually turn and join with the spinning whirlpool Milky Way disc after some 2 billion years of circling around it at a near right angle as part of our parent galaxy called the Sagittarius Dwarf.

This grand turning is also the root cause for the discontinuation of the Mayan calendar (the most accurate on the planet) because the 'read-point' of the Pleiades star cluster from Earth the calendar was based upon could no longer be a constant as we begin to steer away from the earlier chart-ably predictable movement. This is a third discovery made 5 months after the first two, and possibly gives 2012 ancient prophesy issues a somewhat different perspective and footing.

The new understanding is that we (as a solar system) were not ever directly a part of the Milky Way.

If you go outside and look you will see that it is actually sideways in the night sky....

We are part of a smaller galaxy that the Milky Way has put the 'come hither' on and we are just now going to actually turn and join with the Milky way after some 2 billion years of circling around it at a near right angle as part of our parent galaxy called the Sagittarius Dwarf.

Sagittarius Dwarf is now so stretched out that it has lost gravitational hold and cohesiveness to our solar system and we will finally join the "sideways in the sky" Milky Way for the first time in our history. Our solar system is apparently going to finally take a right angle turn for the first time in history and start going around in the Milky Way whirlpool. This is all newer information... and yes it is fact. How fast we turn and exactly where and how fast the changes are going to happen are simply not predictable. We have never joined a new galaxy before as a solar system like this.


GLOBAL CHANGE: A PERMANENT FACT OF LIFE HERE ON EARTH

Life on Earth has already managed to survive no less than eight passages both around and through the higher energy equatorial plane of the Milky Way according to the carbon dated historical time line, and the rather than being something to fear -- we may actually have that to thank for providing the building blocks of the tremendously rich diversities of evolving life and species alive on Earth today. Primordial conditions may in fact have been even somewhat accelerated due to the vastly greater spectrum, quantities, and array of DNA mutating higher quantum energy harmonics as well as the concentrations of rare primordial elements to be found therein. There is so much that we don't know, but are clearly now on the road to find out.

All now points to the Milky Way where we even now are finally making our new home in a grand reorganization into a new galactic neighborhood, beginning with the global changes to the weather throughout the solar system, as well as the temperature and currents of our oceans.


CLIMATE AND WEATHER CHANGES: THE NEW SPECTATOR SPORT

When not so drastic, just keeping track of all the types and extraordinary number of recently building natural changes has become a bit of a spectator sport, as they are more often than not, the most interesting things reported in the news from day to day.

A galactic and global system in a state of reorganization may be found to to be polarizing between climatological extremes until arriving at a new state of relative balance.

Summary:

The discovery of May 30th 2006 reveals that the apparent placement of Earth at the nexus of these two galaxies has far greater significance than any had yet imagined--

Earth and her Sun star system is not aligned with the near 90 degree off-angle galaxy in the sky (now) before us because the Milky Way is not our parent galaxy.

This has been an amazingly significant historical and scientific discovery waiting to happen, now solving age-old mysteries that have baffled science, astronomy, and ancient prophesy researchers for centuries.


THE WHY -- CONNECTING THE DOTS:

We of the overarching Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy have finally come down next to, and even with the massively powerful spiral armed equatorial plane of the Milky Way Galaxy.

In our movement through space --

-- our Earth has now fully begun to respond to the more powerful galactic energies and electro-gravitational bias as we have reached the higher energy equatorial disc region of the massive spiral armed adjacent galaxy, the Milky Way.


SUMMARY: THE UNION OF TWO GALAXIES -- A NEW BEGINNING FOR EARTH

After some two billion years of arching around in an off-angle galactic sized elliptical loop like a dolphin jumping from one edge of a round pool in an arch to the other, our whole direction is apparently to be changing. Rather than going up and around in a vertical loop while turning with the Milky Way below, we as a solar system are going to be now centering in with the turning whirlpool shaped Milky Way spiral galactic disc-- and moving horizontally like a dolphin swimming around with the current amidst the outer edge region of an incomprehensibly huge brightly glowing and turning whirlpool galaxy in space.

20th of July 2006: Second Pivotal finding:

The greater levels of actual temperature change by far--

-- are actually being fueled by the adjusting of our Solar System to the the higher energy states of our new galactic neighborhood. The passage of Voyager II, observed recent pole shifts for both Neptune, and Uranus, while the Martian ice caps are now increasingly melting in as baffling a manner as Earth's.


http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/pl...ophysical1.html


Global Warming:
The Real Reasons

The Union of Two Galaxies-- A New Beginning for Earth

Two surprise astro-science discoveries made just months apart, the first being made 5/30/06, are causing the rewriting of all the astrophysics, science, and astronomy books, and solving age-old mysteries that have baffled science, astronomy, and ancient prophesies researchers for centuries, including the biggest cause overall of Global Warming.

Top astrophysics teams from both the Universities of Virginia, and Massachusetts in 2003 discovered that some two billion years ago, the Milky Way galaxy put the cosmic "come hither" on a nearby galaxy come now to be known as the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy.

Those scientists traced this little galaxy's path playing hard-to-get and ring around the rosy as having circled up and around the Milky Way at a near 90 degree off-angle at least eight different times until finally circling down around to now intersect and merge through the Milky Way equatorial disc -- right through our local space.

With the aid of infrared telescopes, and super computers, scientists were recently able to distinguish the Sagittarius Dwarf presence, position, and looping shape out from the mass of background stars and create a new star map putting our solar system right into the intersecting stream of the two galaxies.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All Discoveries, Copyrights, Manuscript Titles, Headings, Intellectual Property hereby author retained: Copyright 2006,2007, Matthew Perkins Erwin

Matthew Perkins Erwin is a researcher, technogeek, inventor, and recording artist.

Contact Info: Matthew Perkins Erwin eequalsmc4@qwest.net

If you would like to be notified of further developments on these discoveries and also and where you may be able to listen to future music downloads of Matt's you can submit your E-mail to the private and confidential mailing list at eequalsmc4@qwest.net

-- REGISTERED w/ HARVARD/ SMITHSONIAN ASTROPHYSICS DISCOVERY DIV. --

-- All NASA PHOTOGRAPHS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN --

-- SAG-DEG NEW GALACTIC MAP CREDIT: DAVID LAW UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA --

http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~mfs4n/sgr/


-- MAR ICECAPS MELTING -- NEPTUNE/URANUS POLE-SHIFT LINK:

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global/pl...ophysical1.html


-- MILKY WAY PHOTO CREDIT:
astronomy.org/StarWatch/August/8-04-shi-milky-way

SOURCE:
http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=1207&i=2"

Source: http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/956/2012_...f_Two_Galaxies/

so are we part of the milky way galaxy right now at the moment or are we in the process of merging with it?

Ya I have the same question. This discovery goes against everything I learned in school! I always thought we were on the edge of the milky way galaxy.

I highly doubt all of this
First if we were merging with another galaxy then we would certainly notice the gravitation effects
Secondly we would notice the positions of the stars changing, every astronomer on the planet ranging from the beginners to the experts would no doubt notice this.

I have never heard of astronomers using infra red. most likely because there would be too much interference from any objects that emits infra red light. which includes almost everything

notice how he's independent?

Will this cause us to ascend to the Causal plane of existence? because i think the Physical world is getting dull(!)

Hmmm...when I clicked on your Source I get this:

IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS WEBPAGE BECAUSE YOU HAVE HEARD FALLACIOUS NEWS REPORTS ABOUT THE SUN BEING FROM THE SAGITTARIUS DWARF GALAXY:

1. DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE WEB!

2. IF YOU ARE A JOURNALIST, PLEASE FOLLOW TRADITIONAL JOURNALISTIC STANDARDS AND DO PROPER SOURCE AND FACT CHECKING! (IF OTHER SUPPOSEDLY RELIABLE NEWS AGENCIES HAD SUBSCRIBED TO THESE BASIC PRINCIPLES, YOU PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE WASTING TIME RIGHT NOW CHASING DOWN THIS ILLEGITIMATE NEWS STORY!)

3. THE WEBSITE http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/06...-another-galaxy DOES A REASONABLE JOB OF ADDRESSING THE MISINFORMATION BEING CIRCULATED.

4. This web page contains the original press release text from 2003(!) that has been corrupted/misinterpreted to "support" the incorrect conclusion that the Sun did not originate in the Milky Way galaxy. Read carefully and you will see this press release only details the characteristics of the Sagittarius galaxy and nothing more. All astrophysical evidence points confidently and indisputably to the fact the Sun is now and has always been a part of the Milky Way.

I have no idea what to believe right now.

yeah, i noticed that too. i just like poking holes in ridiculous theories.

lol what was the point of this article? is any of it true? is the dwarf galaxy merging with the milky way galaxy still? or was that bs too?

Exactly

Yeah I'm confused too. I thought maybe you were gonna be talking about the Milky Way and Andromeda colliding.

We are NOT part of the Milky Way, but our dying parent galaxy Sagitarrius Dwarf. The milky way is gobbling up our galaxy and we always just figured we were part of the milky way because of how close we are to merging with it. MArs will get warmer, Earth will get warmer, every level of energy as we know it will become greater. The total completed merge will be around 2012

What about the source saying it's fake?

Information is Knowledge ~ Einstein

Good grief. Astronomy should be a mandatory course in high school...it could avoid so many problems.

Do you have any sources to state that it will increase temperatures here and that it will be complete in 2012? Or did you just make this all up?

A part of our galaxy is merging with a dwarf galaxy, and here's the important bit - this will take a VERY long time. One day our galaxy will merge with Andromeda which will take a billion years to complete.

So, again. Are you just spouting your usualy sub-pseduo nonsense or are you going to back any of this up?

That is so far off base I dont even know where to begin...A college level astronomy course will give you the basics to understand how wrong that is; but the statement is just so far off there really is no need to start...I dont think it would matter. We have a very good understanding of where we are in the universe and what is around us; it has been established and understood for some time. This information is just sillyness.

Actually .... the quote is "Information is not Knowledge"

Einstein Quotes

So, you are totally off track. This has NOTHING to do with Andromeda, but Sagittarius Dwarf. No, it will not take any amount of time at all, a few years, because we are completing the merge! The Mayans knew it! Dont you all understand? Its a fact proven by NASA!

By the way i included the SOURCES in case you DIDNT look.

You totally misread my post. I was using Andromeda as an example. It will take a billion years. So how can you get the timing of our collision with Sagittarius Dwarf down to one day???

As for your sources - the academic ones make no connection between these events, and the un-academic ones aren't even worth reading.

Possibly how can any of you really verify that egyptian is wrong becuase scientist today don't even know the full detail about the universe, because scientists are discoversing something everyday about this world and universe. So who are any of you to say that a two galaxies cannot merge withing a couple of years. All information is bound to chancge, becuase if we knew it all we would never have questions to begin with.

There are a lot of things that government aganecies are not telling us becuase of the main fact that most of you just would not believe it, or would want them to show facts that you would think is impossible, or would just want to stick to the your beliefs. There are many things out there that are a mystery to even the smartest man on earth, bu what he does is search for answers instead of debunking them because they are in some book. The knowledge that we have gained today is much more extensive that what we knew back then. Maybe even the Mayans and the other civilizations knew something we did not without even using our fancy machines, they say that maybe those civilizations was far more advanced than we were at this age.

I have never heard of galaxies merging or even forming in a couple of years, becuase if that happened then we would just be mostly compressed into a focal point of gravity instead of expanding. But who knows everything chancges with a little more knowledge about the universe which is unlimited and not limited by wht we know.

DhA...OraCle
R.J.W

who are you to say they can?
this story is complete bs. if we were merging with another galaxy in a couple of years the sky would be much brighter than usual and the positions of the stars would be changing rapidly

Hmm. That would be kinda cool. We would be one step closer to discovering life on another planet!!

how?

Yay for Sagittarians!

And its December 2!!

NYTimes Article on the Merging of Galaxies dated January 9 - 10, 2006

yes, but the op posted an article that said that we were in the galaxy merging with the milky way

I also had and still having doubts about what he posted. but I believe that in 2012 the sun will have it's one complete revolution around the milky way.

that not an opinion it's a fact

What would be the reference point for this? Was there someone with a stopwatch here some 230 million years ago (roughly one 'galactic year' at the sun's distance from the core,) or one of the other roughly 20 galactic years (4.5 billion earth years) since ol' Sol went nuclear and lit up? What exactly would be the starting point, assuming the sun formed over time and didn't just flash into being ex nihilo in an instant?

So do I!!

I really could not answer your question as to where the reference point is, although the Mayans have the answer. they have accurate accounts of dates and times.
CLICK HERE for the Mayan Creation Cycle Article

Hi,

So many discoveries have recently come out it is almost impossible to keep up...

Actually this, (and allot more below) has yet to be proven untrue and now topping 85,000 hits:

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=985423

Seems like we have to get more than partial knowledge before jumping to a conclusion... Hmmm.... : )





QUOTE:


"No matter how "settled" Science seems to be, new facts and evidence can still be discovered.

-- Newtonian physics was modified by Relativity and then by Quantum Physics.

-- Even what we thought were basic astronomical facts can turn out to be wrong based on new evidence."

"...remember that Science is never "settled." That's the very definition of Science." -- M. Paladin


It was not until the most recent discoveries out just this Spring that all of the pieces of the puzzle fit together...


When one begins a search effort to determine the current state of humanity's
understanding of the astro-sciences, it becomes apparent that such new
discoveries can be happened upon and be reported in some obscure area of the
internet that completely supersedes all other related discoveries and published
data on the topic while the earlier incorrect data remains up for years and goes
uncorrected in either the textbooks or the bulk of the internet sites...

*Such is even the case with things as large as the 200 billion star Milky Way galactic structure being discovered some time ago to be completely lopsided with no spiral arms branching out from the other side-- and all data to the contrary still remains and is even taught:

"has extra long arms sprouting out on one side and is warped and armless on the other." [DISCOVERY CHANNEL] [PIC: NASA]



http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/06/02/m...=20060602023745



The breakthroughs in science are coming now so rapidly that even at this very moment-- most
astro-science personnel that could be consulted for comment on even the first two mainstream
science sourced breakthrough discoveries listed above (that) have now fully "undone" all related
textbook science all the way back to Copernicus-- may not have had ample opportunity to be
properly updated on these and actually able to be definitive in any related statements issued.

Professor Majewski, (University of Virginia Astronomy) lead author heading up the team releasing the 2003 paper (which revealed the hidden in plain sight loop shaped structure of the intersecting dwarf galaxy through our near space) has now clearly offered a fresh new scientific perspective on the state of our earlier understanding, and disclosed details of the launching of a new mission, instrumentation, and funding:

[ NASA/ JPL podcast 09/07/07 ]

"We don't know the basic things about our place in the galaxy, our sun's place in the galaxy."

http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/podCasts/P...stPodcast04.cfm


~

Kind've unnerving and exciting at the same time to discover things so big yet hidden in plain sight.


Who was it that said:

"The mind is like a parachute, unless open, it is of little use..."




Schopenhauer's Law:

"The 3 Stages of Truth"

-- All Truth Goes Through 3 Stages --

1). (First) it is Ridiculed

2). It is Violently Opposed

3). It is finally accepted as being "Self-Evident"

Galaxies can indeed move towards one another and briefly merge. However, as galaxies are merely arbitary clusters of stars etc, then they will equally likely just pass through one another, though gravitational attraction may slightly change the "shape" of the re-emerging galaxy, and it may lose (or pick up) a few stars (and hence possibly solar systems).

Egyptian, you don't appear to understand the timescale upon which these events occur. This talk of '2012' is hogwash, as is talk of the coallescence of galaxies producing our current 'global warming'. The mayan civilisation was in existence up untill about - what - 1000 years ago ? It may have lasted for a thousand years or so itself. Or perhaps 10,000 years. But galaxies operate on timescales of 1,000,000,000,000's of years. What relevance are the naked-eye observations of the Mayans ? Their counting system couldn't even go UP to 1,000,000,000,000.

And in terms of merging: what point of refference do you use to say "STOP THE CLOCK.... the galaxies have JUST merged" ? . The edges (and centres) of the galaxies are highly arbitary measurements.

Meow Purr.

Hi,

The only thing wrong I find with Egyptian's account is not that he is in error, but in that he is still learning the meaning of the data and trying to convey it without the fullness of the relevant supporting data presented in full with pics and mainstream science news links to you at the time of the initiation of the debate.

The information involved is so new and the discoveries supporting it all are so amazingly contrary to what we previously understood that we have been wrong all the way back to Copernicus about which way we were even going in space until just last spring.

You may want to have a little mercy on yourself before making any more judge (+) jury pronouncements till you get a chance to update and upgrade your understanding of all the newest astounding background knowledge...


~

my belief would never change by this unsure info unless proven
our solar system is born on milkyway galaxy
PERIOD

The only unsure thing is to still doggedly use outdated data and even refuse to keep abreast of the latest infrared telescope and supercomputer data and measurements with the new starmaps...

I like to delve into the latest real data that upsets the apple cart of "be'LIE'fs" because otherwise we are just going on what some outdated source has 'told us' is true in making life decisions. (The data is all there, but you can choose denial as a free will option of course)

Truth is, no real cutting edge scientist goes with outdated textbook info. The internet is where all the latest is coming out. The science links are all there. None of these scientists want to get their funding cut by sticking their neck out to pronounce what it all means for the general public to 'kill the messenger' kinda deal but this all is now becoming very obvious across the net... 85,000 hits and still not proven to be untrue...

All related past science we had thought to be true simply is wrong all the way back to Copernicus:

DISCOVERY # 1).

SOLAR SYSTEM DISCOVERED TRAVELING IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION

[ than the Sciences previously understood or had even thought possible ]:

http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2007/1942665.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18677756/




All the textbooks need to be rewritten, yet you could sign up for a college graduate course in astrophysics and pay your tuition and all and yet be taught something completely outdated (wrong).

Because these are present convergences on the present timeline, it may prove very relevant for us to become abreast of how the Earth itself may be adjusting in the near future in a simple follow the leader to what the Sun, Uranus, and Neptune have done with recent poleshifts (see midblog)

"
-- -- RECENT POLE SHIFTS OF THE SUN AND PLANETS... A FORECAST OF OUR OWN FUTURE? -- --

With the passage of NASA's Voyager I & II out of our Solar System it was noted that both Uranus and Neptune
have experienced recent pole shifts and Uranus with its rings is now actually seen as physically lying on its side --
seemingly in consonance with the angle of the Milky Way where we are clearly now heading in to finally merge.


PIC: URANUS w/ rings completely sideways [actual photo]

Scientists also noted a puzzling behavior of the Sun's magnetic poles when first able to directly measure them
on the outcome of the Sun's standard 11 year magnetic pole shift with instruments aboard the Ulysses space
probe in 2001: "Instead of reversing completely, flipping north to south, the Sun's magnetic poles have only
rotated at halfway and are now more or less lying sideways along the Sun's equator."

http://www.esa.int/esaSC/Pr_13_2003_s_en.html


Did you get that?

The North and South poles of the Sun are right now lying at the equator...

Did you know that?


There is more inside info on these blogs than anywhere else I have been able to find PERIOD : )

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=985423


Its an adventure!


~

I was puzzled by the OP's post so had a little look around.

Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy

Some of the stars in SagDEG (hehe, love the scientific names) are within the boundary of our Milky Way galaxy - but on the opposite side to our solar system.

There is no indication the galaxies will merge any time soon (soon being relative given the orbital period of 1 billion years). As the article in the link above states, it could be that SagDEG passed through the Milky Way at approx the area where our solar system resides at some time in the past however, given the orbital period of SagDEG around the Milky Way, that passthrough could not have happened less than 500 million years ago (remember, it is now on the opposite side of the Milky Way galaxy to us).

If our Solar System was captured then it would now be fully integrated into the Milky Way, rather than just about to be integrated.

All-in-all, it's an interesting find from the astronomical pov, but I find many of the suppositions made to be a bit fanciful.

Recent discoveries have dated the position and direction and periodicity of cycle of our past trajectory:



"several billion years"

http://www.astro.wesleyan.edu/~kvj/mw.html



The discovery of May 30th 2006 reveals that the apparent placement of Earth at the nexus of these two galaxies
has far greater significance than any had yet imagined--

Earth and her Sun star system is not aligned with the near 90 degree off-angle galaxy in the sky (now) before us
"because the Milky Way is simply not our parent galaxy."


We have just established that we are still angled with the smaller parent galaxy but appear to have now gravitationally broken free the last
time circling down through the disc, and are now moving independently -- back up-- and being gravitationally pulled into position as in
a parallel parking fashion -- to the center of gravity of the Milky Way whirlpool arms and disc. It now appears to be only a matter of time
before we're fully pulled into the angle of our new home, the Milky Way as we approach the center of the Milky Way disc in the year 2012.

With the aid of infrared telescopes, and super computers, scientists were recently able to distinguish
the Sagittarius Dwarf presence, position, and looping shape out from the mass of background stars and
create a new star map putting our solar system right into the intersecting stream of the two galaxies.



It was not until the most recent discoveries out just this Spring that all of the pieces of the puzzle fit together...


A new infra red digital survey of the entire sky was made in 2003. Teams from the Universities of Virginia and
Massachusetts used a supercomputer to sort through half a billion stars to create a -- NEW STAR MAP --
showing our Solar System to be astoundingly at the nexus-crossroads where two galaxies are actually joining.

LINK:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gala...ble_030924.html



THE MYSTERY -- Why the Milky Way is "sideways" in the night sky has never been answered -- Until Now...


-- MATTHEW PERKINS ERWIN -- an inventor-type slightly ahead of his time --

-- made the Breakthrough Discovery on May 30th 2006 -- studying the 2003 New Star Map:
________________________________________________________________________________
____________________

-- -- Our angle is clearly "off" 60 - 90 degrees to the Milky Way in the night sky "Because" -- --

"We are being pulled in from an adjoining galaxy and obviously now in the final stages of joining with the Milky Way..."
________________________________________________________________________________
____________________

"Exactly how the Milky Way (two black holes in the center) got so big (200 billion stars) as it is clearly the sum total of many smaller galaxies..."



-- GALACTIC BLENDING MOVIES --

http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~drlaw/MWstreams.html
[Credit: David R. Law Caltech]

1. There doesn't appear to be any significance to the relationship between a star system's plane and the galactic plane. We have an evergrowing list of extra-solar systems, and so far there is no evidence to suggest that any are aligned with each other, or any other galaxy. There is no:

2. The timespans and distances involved make nonsensical any precise pinpointing of when our solar system has/will be adopted by a new galaxy, completes a revolution around the galaxy, or crosses the galactic plane. To claim the ability to pluck a single year out of 240,000,000 others (or more) and say "That's the one!" is hubris.

3. Matthew Perkins Erwin has a propensity for using adverbs and hyperbole to lessen the blunt trauma of inserting his own unfounded conclusions into his quoted material.
a.
b.
c.


4. Remember rule 3 for rapid Internet post evaluation: The accuracy and usefulness of the content is usually inversely proportional to the use of adverbs and capital letters.
a.
b.

5. Mayan prowess ain't what it used to be. The end of their world predated our year 2012 by about eleven hundred years. They "have" no practical answers, whatever beliefs they may have "had."

6. A quick Google search for Galactic alignment reveals some insight into this: Bad astronomy plus cheap spiritualism plus greed.


However, if we are from the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical galaxy, that makes us extra-galactic aliens! Do we get T-shirts or something for that?

And what have you come up with in your life time that compares to their remarkably accurate calendar you enjoy deriding so much? Bearing in mind you have the added advantage of modern technology at your disposal, such as instant communication, the internet, computers, powerful telescopes, etc? For one who obviously considers himself to be so intelligent, what exactly is your contribution to knowledge? Oh yes, that will be the clichéd put-downs you regurgitate 'parrot-style' from the various skeptic forums you belong to. Let us all hail "OptimisticSkeptic", the great bringer of knowledge to humankind!

In comparison to the Mayans, do you not see what a sad, puffy-chested, underachieving, clueless clown you are?

Scientists are proved wrong every day, by other scientists. And this is nothing new. It’s happened throughout the 20th century & continues to happen today. “Established theories” have been proven completely wrong by another scientist who didn’t conform to the status quo.

I am not saying this theory is right or wrong. Just that you should understand scientists are not Gods. Let me repeat that: SCIENTISTS ARE NOT GODS. If you hang on their every word and treat it as fact you are no better than the ones you like to ridicule for believing the Old Testament is fact.

The most intelligent post in all this topic is this:

“Possibly how can any of you really verify that Egyptian is wrong because scientist today don't even know the full detail about the universe, because scientists are discovering something everyday about this world and universe.”

Someone who actually shows real intelligence and understanding of the universe and our (limited) knowledge of it. Instead of a load of know-it-all kids who accept without question whatever ‘facts’ are fed to them from scientific/sceptic/etc websites & journals.

Science has repeatedly demonstrated the most accepted theories can be disproven. If you want to treat current scientific knowledge as indisputable fact because a scientist told you so, more stupid you!

With all due respect, the original discovery of the most viewable part of the Sagittarius Dwarf (on the opposite side of the Milky Way disc to us) was made in 1994, and yet in 2003 it was discovered in the 2MASS All Sky Infrared Survey w/ supercomputer results to have been stretched into an eliptical shape. "Eliptical" was added to the name and the New Star Map was born.

[Yellow Dot is Our Sun]







Not only is the above statement:
"There is no indication the galaxies will merge any time soon" in error, it shows the ignorance of the fact that the eliptical loop shape of the Dwarf Galaxy itself has been in a constant state of a Milky Way merger both directly through our near space, and at the other side of the Milky Way equatorial plane, therefore intersecting twice. The New Star Map clearly shows the SagDeg to be looped shaped.

And also of the above statement:
"If our Solar System was captured then it would now be fully integrated into the Milky Way, rather than just about to be integrated"

Q: What is the supporting data as whys and wherefores you can present to substantiate such?

~

so it means that scientific law today is not accepted tomorrow
then science is not fixed its changing its law it means that people from the past were fooled by the false law
and were also near to be fooled by false scientific laws
now i don't know what to believe

'OptimisticSkeptic'
1. There doesn't appear to be any significance to the relationship between a star system's plane and the galactic plane. We have an evergrowing list of extra-solar systems, and so far there is no evidence to suggest that any are aligned with each other, or any other galaxy. There is no:

'Scienceguy'
Purely a baldfaced presupposition passed off as a supposed factually relevant statement as though just because we cannot see it or cognize it yet does not mean our technology and science won't shortly uncover the contrary. "There is no evidence to suggest" that you could even recognize the required evidence that may quite possibly be as plain as the flat earth was round all those years even before man discovered it.
Stating something as what "should be established thinking" in your view just because you are unaware of anything to the contrary is "shut down" thinking. Clearly.


'OptimisticSkeptic'
2. The timespans and distances involved make nonsensical any precise pinpointing of when our solar system has/will be adopted by a new galaxy, completes a revolution around the galaxy, or crosses the galactic plane. To claim the ability to pluck a single year out of 240,000,000 others (or more) and say "That's the one!" is hubris.

'Scienceguy'
Of the some 40,000,000 minutes that separate the two specific moments: of the day you were born, and the day you wake up in some other existence, it makes no difference if big numbers are involved in either case because though rare, those moments and days actually do happen. Do the seconds of any such day don't tick by any faster or any slower just because it may happen to be a major day of change? Just as the Tsunami did happen, and some 300,000 were swept away in a single day is just such an example of the extraordinary appearing with little apparent warning to the average human on this planet. Interesting that not one animal was blind to the signals and dared stick around. What is it with we humans... dead from the neck up and splitting hairs when billions of lives could be saved by the inside info that is freely offered in that "Earth's whole future" 5 Discoveries blog at the Curezone.

Q: Why? In that most of the world's people live within 150 miles of the coastlines and according to NASA (see blog) we are overdue for a pole shift, Uranus and Neptune have experienced recent pole shifts, and the Sun has shifted but only half way and the North and South poles are currently lying on their side at the Sun's equator:

Scientists also noted a puzzling behavior of the Sun's magnetic poles when first able to directly measure them
on the outcome of the Sun's standard 11 year magnetic pole shift with instruments aboard the Ulysses space
probe in 2001: "Instead of reversing completely, flipping north to south, the Sun's magnetic poles have only
rotated at halfway and are now more or less lying sideways along the Sun's equator."


http://www.esa.int/esaSC/Pr_13_2003_s_en.html



"Earth’s magnetic field also flips, but with less regularity. Consecutive reversals are spaced 5 thousand years to
50 million years apart. The last reversal happened 740,000 years ago. Some researchers think our planet is
overdue for another one, but nobody knows exactly when the next reversal might occur [NASA]."

We can choose to ignore and 'not' put our awareness on what changes are happening around us, even hidden in plain sight, but it is bad karma to deliberately hinder the understanding of other readers as both judge + jury.


'OptimisticSkeptic'
3. Matthew Perkins Erwin has a propensity for using adverbs and hyperbole to lessen the blunt trauma of inserting his own unfounded conclusions into his quoted material.
a.
b.
c.

'Scienceguy'
If you've read through as many dry scientific reports and data sheets etc. as I have, it becomes apparent as to why the billions in advertizing simply never favors only a dry presentation in commercials and ads for the superbowl etc. It is rare indeed to have so much hidden in plain sight stuff come to light all at once complete with all the mainstream science links and graphics and so the reader can just connect the dots.


'OptimisticSkeptic'
4. Remember rule 3 for rapid Internet post evaluation: The accuracy and usefulness of the content is usually inversely proportional to the use of adverbs and capital letters.
a.
b.

'Scienceguy'
"rapid Internet post evaluation" is not what the material was written for obviously. Ha! Ha! Ha! These are a string of never before released discoveries and even an invention that could save billions and bless you personally in your daily life with a traffic light that would see you coming as the lone driver and turn it back from yellow to green and let you through, and yet you seem to abound in ingratitude and yea even with a snide pompous pride as you pick apart somebody and their offering who is freely giving it to humanity.


'OptimisticSkeptic'
5. Mayan prowess ain't what it used to be. The end of their world predated our year 2012 by about eleven hundred years. They "have" no practical answers, whatever beliefs they may have "had."


'Scienceguy'
Ha! Ha! Ha! I tell ya, somehow they knew what our womenfolk have been trying to tell us all along with the twenty eight day month. : )

With our Julian (Pope J.) calendar we are fraught with even having tio add a leap year it is so innacurrate! : )



'OptimisticSkeptic'
6. A quick Google search for Galactic alignment reveals some insight into this: Bad astronomy plus cheap spiritualism plus greed.


However, if we are from the Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical galaxy, that makes us extra-galactic aliens! Do we get T-shirts or something for that?


'Scienceguy'
Didn't you have something to 'add' instead of spending an entire post 'detracting'?


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IMHO In my humble opinion, belief and belief systems are something that should not take up more than 49% of one's identity. They are not alive and are subject to staying in error and holding individuals hostage and subject to error of one sort or another even if found by other's to be not fully on the mark as they say. Better to live the way real time.

It can be scary to have to sort through and figure life out point by point independently as though you primarily kept your 'own counsel' but at least you will be swimming in a sea of original thoughts and not just what someone told you to believe, (true or not) but Man-Oh-Man is it worth it!


Science is not perfect but it is bringing some good things out right in the nick of time.

Read up on these topics and ask about what you don't get. There is more inside information in that curezone blog than anywhere I've seen.

It is actually the co-olest thing to find all this stuff out as these things are getting ready to take the stage. The info you see in the blog will become worldwide knowledge by 2012 and you may be telling others you had the inside scoop back in 2007!

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The most telling thing about someone's stance comes when you ask for credible evidence regarding outlandish claims, and they stoop to ad hominem attacks. You missed on all points, friend.

This is what I found about this!


New Milky Way neighbor
The Sloan Digital Sky Survey reveals a Milky Way satellite preparing to merge.

Francis Reddy
January 12, 2006

Astronomers using a database of some 48 million stars have discovered a faint but huge stellar structure positioned almost directly above the Milky Way's disk. The most likely interpretation, researchers say, is that this is a dwarf galaxy merging with our own.

"It's like looking at the Milky Way with a pair of 3-D glasses," says Robert Lupton of Princeton University, who presented the findings Monday at the American Astronomical Society meeting in Washington. "This structure that used to be lost in the background suddenly snapped into view."

Data from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS), which has mapped about one-quarter of the northern sky, allows astronomers to view slices of the stellar halo surrounding the Milky Way in much the same way as doctors use a medical CT scan. The team used the stars' colors and apparent brightnesses to infer their distances.

Viewing slices at progressively greater distances from the Sun, the researchers uncovered a dense, starry swath 30,000 light-years away in Virgo. The patch spans 1,000 square degrees, or more than 5,000 times the area of a Full Moon, and contains at least 1 million stars.

"It's a cloud of stars stuck somewhere above the Milky Way," Lupton says. The Virgo Overdensity, as astronomers now call it, is "truly a pathetic galaxy," he says, but it's so close it spans a greater sky area than any object other that the Milky Way itself. "It's going to be part of the Milky Way in another million years."

Link- New Milky Way Neighbor

It says nothing about our parent galaxy being sagittarius dwarf.

You are exactly right. We discover new configurations all the time, and after sufficient evidence is noted and observations are repeated, the information is accepted. So, if we're coming from two different realms, just let me know and I won't bother with debating you since we can't have a logical debate. I believe that our knowledge of the universe can only be improved through the scientific method. Your statement above, "just because we cannot see it or cognize it does not mean..." leads me to believe that you hold as fact some things that cannot be observed or tested. Is that true?



You completely missed my point. Let me couch it in the terms you used: Even for dying, there is not a single instant that can be likened to a switch being flipped and "life" becoming "death." It may take several minutes. For some, death can take days or months or years. For others caught in catastrophic circumstances, it can be pretty much instantaneous. We humans arbitrarily pick a single moment to ascribe as "the moment of death" so that we can categorize it. We also, especially Westerners, feel a need to name things, and this is another example of that. For legal reasons, a "time of death" is important. For scientific reasons, however, it's not so useful. In either case, it's arbitrary within a reasonable frame.

The same goes moreso for a process that has been ongoing for millions of years. I say it again, claiming to be able to name a year as "The One" when this process is complete is hubris. Making the claim with no supporting evidence is even worse.



Hindering understanding is what one does when unfounded claims are made, and support is begged up through emotional appeals, sensationalism, and hyperbole. For all appearances, the theory is trying to "pull one over" on unsuspecting persons through fearmongering. That is a technique mastered by used car salesmen.

I'll even grant that the author (is that you, by the way?) may have the best intentions, but the execution is terribly flawed.

The use of the "who are you to judge" card is exceptionally aggregious.


Good analogy, "connect the dots." My point was exactly that, and I'm glad that you admit that was the intent of the page. In order to connect the dots as they are presented, one has to make some seriously huge leaps. It is as though the author has drawn some random dots on a page and asked the reader to squint just enough to see the picture he is trying to present. In keeping with the theme, the constellation Cygnus may look like a swan, but it is, in fact, not a swan.




That is assuming that what is being offered is not useless, or worse, harmful. I'm astounded that asking for credible, relevant evidence to back up an extraordinary claim and pointing out flaws in what has been presented elicits such a defensive reaction. I hear, "How dare you ask for acceptable proof? Only I am able to discern what is acceptible! Trust me."




So, you're claiming it's better because "These go to eleven?"

You have an answer to a particularly uninteresting question. "Why is the Julian calendar so terrible?" It hasn't really been asked because it's not an issue. It might be an annoyance, but not an issue.

And are you saying that the Mayans somehow managed to evenly divide 365.25 by 28? I missed where they were able to divide the year into equal parts without dividing a day, and make a simple, repeatable system that follows simple rules. That is, after all, what the Julian calendar attempts to do, not quite successfully, I admit, but we have successfully adapted to it by convention. The parts of the year aren't "equal," but they are manageable even by the simplest of folk.




There is science, and there is quackery. If I detract from quackery, then I add to the cause of science or at least common sense.


OS

Hi Tom,

What you have found is a single piece of the puzzle.

Hats off to you.

A single piece is not definitive of the whole puzzle though.

When we start to look at the actual state of the astrosciences, it starts to dawn on us that the quantum leaps and advancements in technology coupled with all the breakthrough research and astonishing discoveries coming out of the woodwork across the globe popping on the internet, that most of the information going into science textbooks is out of date into them 'even as they are being printed on the presses as we start our week again tomorrow'.

A cutting edge scientist simply cannot rely on textbook science as conclusive to form and base an opinion. He must however tiptoe around the status quo when releasing info out to the public at large , else face the loss of his grants and funding for upsetting the apple cart and causing a flurry of public questions for which no pabulum spoon fed answer has been settled upon (almost by default) for general consumption.

It is an exhilarating adventure to be able to read through the science reports released as raw cutting edge discoveries from the internet reporting arms of the mainstream media (such as the ABC New Releases*) that are brazenly specializing in breakthrough science news before it getting dumbed down (as in the past) so the public would eventually get an old stale mere preprocessed prepackaged crumb mixed with fillers, added msg to put the recipient's brain in a hypnotic stupor, get a pat on the head and told to run along now.

(*)DISCOVERY # 1).

SOLAR SYSTEM DISCOVERED TRAVELING IN COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION

[ than the Sciences previously understood or had even thought possible ]:

http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2007/1942665.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18677756/


What you have uncovered is the need for a bit of a personal decision.

A decision as as to which way you will personally now process such breakthrough information and formulate 'original thoughts'.

If you want the latest breakthroughs that may in fact be pertinent to your continued understanding, and possibly even your future well being and existence while living on the surface a planet in such an increasingly delicate balance of existence, you may have to decide to simply roll up up your pant legs and get your feet wet if you want to know "how's the water?".

There is a right of passage.

Although most all scientists are bought and paid for under grants and such arrangements and are so compartmentalized in their respective disciplines that an overall summation covering the entire spectrum of the gamut of assembled discoveries textbook style will not be available for perhaps 5-7-10 years at best (if that), they are to be given their due for their talents, expertise, their application, and putting in the actual work to be able to begin wrap their mind around the concepts (and to) possibly figure it all out from just the data in the news releases.

What you have uncovered maybe exciting for some and scary for others...

You have discovered that we have only begun to scratch the surface of the way things really are, and may be.

You have found one newslink that relates to just ONE of the many many faint leftovers of dwarf galaxies that are being discovered by ever increasingly advanced infrared and radio hydrogen telescope surveys. They require super computers to sort out by star type/spectrum/age to even make some sense out of the blur of 200 billion stars(+).

Here are samples of what they are imaging so far:


http://sscws1.ipac.caltech.edu/Imagegaller..._name=sig07-008
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn88...ss-the-sky.html

-- GALACTIC BLENDING MOVIES --

http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~drlaw/MWstreams.html
[Credit: David R. Law Caltech]


http://www.astro.wesleyan.edu/~kvj/mw.html

[Credit: Kathryn V. Johnston Wesleyan U.]


The Sagittarius Dwarf intersecting Elliptical loop Galaxy is pertinent to our lives and discussion because its loop shape was found in a 2003 infrared and super computer study to be looping down around and through our direct local space. Given the fact that it was just discovered that we have been wrong about which way we were traveling in space since Copernicus, it should make the lightbulb in your head flicker on that we are neither angled with the Milky Way in the the sky or (now) even discovered traveling in even the same direction as the Milky Way.

You now can choose to boldly connect the dots or perhaps go back to the boringness of T.V. or the triviality of fellow human musings surfing the net while the sands in the hourglass fall regardless of your consciously brave application (or lack of it) regarding your upcoming adventure...

It is a wondrous time.

You have free will and now free and direct access to the very direct clues as the greatest assemblage of inside information possibly deciding your personal future existence any of us have ever encountered.


"Well into the twentieth century, astronomers believed that there was only one galaxy in the Cosmos, the Milky Way -"
Carl Sagan - `Cosmos'

Most major discoveries in our past have been so quashed and hoarded by the corporate and governmental monopolies that we are only now just hearing that some amazing women have in fact been directly involved with some of the greatest discoveries of all time for example:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/greatest.html

We are only beginning to see a little bit of the real puzzle, and yet enough of the pieces are before us in the mounting pile that what was hidden in plain sight all this time is now becoming obvious.

You will not see the pieces of the puzzle before you unless you go here:

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=985423


...and get them all in front of you to sort out. May want to copy the info in case it disappears... You won't get all this kind of real clues anywhere. If you know of anything that comes close, I want to know about it ASAP. : )

To take up so great an adventure as this, it is becoming obvious that is not simply a spectator sport designed for consumers now is it?

COURAGE!


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