It looks like there are biblical reasons to believe that modern day UFOs are highly advanced air craft piloted by God's angels. There are flying objects in the bible that are associated with angels that look like the UFOs seen and filmed in the sky today.
The bible seems to show that they help in warfare, causing the side that God chooses to win.
There was an angel associated with that Cloudlike pillar that led the Israelites through the desert. That pillar seemed to help the Israelites by taking off the charriot wheels of the Egyptians.
Exodus 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
I think the cloudlike pillar was a UFO piloted by angels and it used its armaments to hinder the Egyptians.
Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
Angels are called stars in the beginning of the book of Revelation.
In that scripture it seems like the angels helped Israel to defeat their enemies in the book of Judges.
I also think the nativity star was probably a UFO piloted by angels and it led the wisemen to the house where Jesus was.
Real stars in space appear to be an infinite distance away and cannot hover over a particular place like the nativity star did.
The watchers in the book of Daniel, I believe were angels, and they brought punishment upon King Nebuchadnezzar because he was lifted up in pride and did not give God the glory. So the angels taught him that the heavens and God rule.
Angels help saints and punish sinners.
I believe that the chariots or vehicles that angels fly around in are seen and filmed today. They are called UFOs, by the public; unidentified flying objects.

Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands
of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

The cloudlike pillar UFO was filmed by Tim Edwards in the US, and David Spore in England. It has a white cloudy mist around it and glows with a golden glow at night, which matches what the scriptures say about the pillar that led the Israelites in the desert.
http://ourstrangeplanet.com/index.php?opti...3&Itemid=57
Scroll down page to see still photograph of white pillar ufo.

Angels use vehicles or chariots. There are modern day UFOs that look like the cloudlike pillar in Exodus, the wheel within a wheel (saucer or disk) in Ezekiel chapter 1, and the bright light that appeared to Paul and his companions on the road to Damascus, from which Jesus spoke to Paul and the light did Paul eye damage.
So, I think there is evidence that angels pilot UFOs and fly around in them, watching over the planet.

Most of the angels in the bible don't have wings. In the Old Testament and at the tomb of Jesus they looked like young men. However their countenance was diferent. You could probably feel God's presence when you were near them. Paul said some have entertained angels unawares. That means there are angels walking among us, and they look like men, and you cannot tell they are angels. They don't have wings.
The creatures in Ezekiel that did not look human, had what he described as wings. But his description does not involve the flapping of wings. They may have just been part of a space suit that looked like wings. But he called them wings, maybe they were real wings.
Jesus said those that enter into that life, referring to the time after the millenial reign cannot die anymore but are as the angels. In Revelation it says, there will be no more death in that time. Now there is death. And apparently angels can die now too. They die in UFO crashes. They cannot die of old age. A word used for angels in Matt. 24 is eagles. There is a passage in psalms that refers to renewing your youth like the eagles. Angels don't get old so they don't die of old age. They probably eat nutrition similar to the fruit of the tree of life in the garden of Eden and that nutrition allows them to renew their yourh. But angels can be killed now. The fallen angels, the devils, don't have physical bodies and were probably killed when they lost the war in heaven. There is also a scripture in Daniel which tends to show that angels can be killed now.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Daniel 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Stars is a word for angels in the beginning of the book of Revelation.
The antichrist is going to use his military forces to shoot down UFOs and the angels that pilot them. I have seen a short film of a UFO taken from space, and it changed direction as what looked like a missile was fired up at it. The military may be shooting down UFOs already.
In the next life, after the milenial reign it says in Revelation there shall be no more death. It looks like both men and angels can die now.
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
However, the laws conscerning angels are different from the laws conscerning men. Maybe God would just give them another physical body later.
The crop circles are cause by the peculiar energy field that the UFO propulsion system uses. They use small robot UFOs to literally paint portraits of designs in the crops. I'm not sure why they do this.
[I suspect the energy field they use to be chi, or psychotronic energy--Aura energy.]
Scientist agree that the UFOs are using some sort of energy field propulsion.
Most of the people that are abducted are terrified and scared. Most of the people that are abducted are practicing sinners that are not right with God and they should be scared in the presence of God's angels. The peculiar energy field they use gives them the ability to access another dimension, and they abduct people right out through the wall or ceiling. They can pass through walls like the angel that rescued Peter from prison in the New Testament. These genetic activities they seem to be doing might be a form of control on human genetics. It would be how God controls the human gene pool. Maybe genetic manipulation developed the 5 races of men, like that. They may also be testing people to determine their health, to see what needs to be added or taken from the environment to keep people healthy. Sort of like caring for a pet.
I assume they are using their UFO energy fields to manipulate the weather and make life possible on the planet Earth. [All the other planets have weather in chaos, but our weather is finelly balanced to support life. This is by design and not by chance.]
Psalms 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.


My understanding of this is, it was a fire ball UFO, typical UFO type. They considered it a vehicle which contained occupants; in those days vehicles were chariots. Chariots are pulled by horses. It moved, and they perceived it was the fire that was pulling it along, so the bible speaks of "horses of fire". The energy field around fireball UFOs is what makes them move. So you get the phrase, " horses of fire."
The UFO energy fields have been known to make compasses spin, and interfere with electrical and mechanical equipment at a distance. [Note the truck scene in the movie, "CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND"; it was based on real ufo events.] There may be an internal source for the energy field, but it definitely surrounds the UFO on the outside and affects other things at a distance.
Also the energy field sometimes glows and sometimes it don't glow. So, the ancients would have described this as fire.
The only kind of vehicle propulsion known to the ancients was an animal, mostly horses, pulling a wheeled vehicle or chariot. So, if the fire (glowing energy field) is making it move, then it could be described as "horses of fire".

hahahahah OMG, you yanks are something else.

I registered just to reply to this post.

And I reply thusly

Lots of people see blue aliens and yet the gods were always blue according to Hinduism. And flying craft are mentioned in the Vedas.

Some blue aliens amongst others, which I recognized as messengers of God, came to my place and we had a philosophical conversation in which I stated that there was no proof of God anywhere on the earth, and straight away a cigar shaped ufo appeared in the sky near my place and was photographed for the news that night. So the blue beings provided proof of God in the form of a ufo.

There was a reptilian in the garden of Eden, and grays are simply bodies that sylph-like spiritual beings use as suits. So it's all a spiritual phenomenon related directly to religion and Gods etc.

I'm sorry ,but why would spiritual beings be in need of a vehicle ?

The angels in the bible that appear in man form have physical bodies. Jacob wrestled with an angel, so he must have had a physical body. The angels that visited Lot, to get him and his family out of Sodom, before it was destroyed by an aerial bombardment, had physical bodies. The men of Sodom wanted to abuse them sexually, so they had physical bodies. The angels grabbed Lot and his family by the hand to lead them out of Sodom. They must have had physical bodies to do that. Paul said some have entertained angels uawares. They look so much like men that they walk among us and you cannot recognize them as angels. An angel in the bible passed right through the walls of the prison and rescued Peter from the prison, apparently walking him out through the walls. UFO aliens also abduct people out through the walls or ceiling, and they can walk through walls. The energy field that they manipulate seems to give them the ability to access another dimension so they can pass through walls.

Devils in the bible don't have physical bodies; they are evil spirits that use the minds and bodies of men that they telepathically mislead or possess.

Seems logical to me. I'd beware of ascribing purely Christian labels or ownership on the phenomenon however, since as another poster said this type of understanding seems to have existed for millenia and in various cultures. I've felt for a few years now that "spirits", angels, and ultradimensional beings are interchangeable. Whatever it is, I'm getting mighty impatient for finding out the truth. I WANT these Beings/angels/spirits to appear in some sort of mass experience.

If they are the angels of God they will appear in a mass experience, when Jesus Christ returns at the second coming, with an army of angels, to take over the world by force at the battle of armageddon. [UFO Invasion] But the Second Coming of Christ seems to me to be far into the future and not any time soon.

You know, if new age enthusiasts are to be believed, there have been many "Christs" - one appears at the beginning of every new astrological age, according to them (I'm thinking of Linda Goodman's materials in particular) to herald in the new age. In my opinion however, it would be both extremely dangerous and catastrophic for the title of "Christ" to be assigned to any one person over others - extraterrestrial or not. I would think that if that person exists (I personally hope he does), that he would be wise enough to allow others - everyone who wants it in fact - to feel like they too are "Christs" in their own right, thereby spreading out the power, and keeping nothing for himself. That, to me, would be the hallmark of a truly enlightened individual.

I guess that's why although I do believe in some sort of messianic element, I hope to God that it will not look down upon us as minions. At this stage in our evolution as we're getting all growed up and out of our evolutionary diapers, I like to think that we're finally able to relate with everything out there on a more or less equal level. If we're not, then I hope the Universe has a sense of humor and goes along with it - just to give us a teaser of what's out there and more importantly, what's within us.

But that's me.

I also think that if in fact there were a "hostile" alien invasion and a cosmic war of sorts, that we would not stand even a photon of a chance. Remember that we are dealing with something that exists not only in unknown numbers, but supposedly has the ability to shapeshift, time travel, read minds and communicate telepathically, has unlimited resources, and possesses technology that is anywhere from a hundred to millions of years ahead of our own. Were I to occupy a place of power on Earth and I had to ability to command people, I think (or at least I hope) I would be experienced or wise enough to realize that even the very best of my military might is useless against such a foe. I would try instead to go on living and try to bring the information slowly to condition the public. But that's IF they're hostile. Deep down, I don't think they are. Not the ones visiting us anyhow. I mean when you have ICBMs being shut down from within the launch silos and no direct engagement otherwise, that's a pretty clear sign you're dealing with something that has your best interests at heart.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm just curious.

...No comment on this...

It sounds so... idiotic...

Yeah...kinda like:

1) Everyone knows the Earth is flat, and there is nothing on the other side of the Ocean.
2) Giant hairy monkeys in the African jungle? Gimme a break! (circa 1902).
3) We are alone in the entire Universe. No life exists within except for us (shot down by the discovery of bacteria in a martian meteorite - late 1990s).
4) Giant squid? In the Oceans? Powerful enough to kill sailors and sink small crafts? Heresy! (shot down by the discovery of the first physical specimens in the twentieth century).

I'm prepared to think and be presented evidence showing that nearly everything I hold dear and which makes me who I think I am is one grand illusion.

I want to respond to this. My research into the UFO phenomenon is quickly drawing to a conclusion and I am led to believe there is something more sinister to them then I first believed. Some of them and maybe all are the fallen watchers as spoken about in the book of Enoch. This book has been supressed and hidden for almost 1700 years by the RC Church. It has only recently been found again complete in its entirty. Having said this, I plan to expose these watchers for who and what they are. In researching this I found some discussion on it: (I don't have to agree with all of this, but I found it very very interesting.)


...Point blank, Origen was right. Enoch was suppressed and labeled as heresy specifically to hide the truth of the fallen angels' past, present and future activity on earth.

Forget Roswell. Forget the X-Files. The most successful, enduring and damaging cover-up of "The Truth" about our planet's frequent visitors - has come from within The Church.


...As said in Part 1, the Church itself is responsible for perpetrating the most enduring and damaging cover-up in regard to abductions.

Beyond this, in accordance with prophecies made by Peter, Paul and Jesus Christ himself, they (The RC Church) invented a completely false doctrine about the "proper interpretation" of Genesis 6. This heresy has robbed both the churched and unchurched from any hope of understanding the truth behind abductions. In short, Jews and early Christians knew full well that angels did, could and would abduct humans for the purposes of sex and hybridization, BUT these same texts also gave safeguards against such assault.

This rogue element of the early church (sort of an early Catholic Majestic 12, if you will) has left moderns at the mercy of a phenomenon they have no hope of understanding or defending themselves against. Today's society is doomed to repeat the errors of our ancient ancestors, by once again falling prey to the Watchers' sorceries and claims of divinity. Already, far too many are under the sway of UFO cults, claiming that they are led by "spirit-guides here to help humanity." Many more "normal" individuals in the world of scientific UFO research and supposedly the world's governments merely defer to their technology, by assuming the Watchers are a superior race from the stars. Citing Ezekiel 3:18 (while I'm making enemies anyway) allow me to also charge that the blood, the wrecked lives, and the eternal damnation of all souls who have fallen victim to either abductions or deceptive philosophies is on the hands of those who perpetrated - and today with knowledge maintain - these deceptive doctrines.

I realize these are astounding and damning claims, and I would not make them without offering sufficient proof. Because of the incorrect (but widely taught in seminaries) "Sons of Seth" interpretation of Genesis 6 introduced around 400 A.D., Christians start out at a disadvantage when studying the topic. For this reason, these arguments will be offered in a way meant to challenge and convince the Christian believer of these claims. Then, we'll look over other texts which received "the Enoch treatment." As made clear elsewhere on this site, I still maintain a belief in and respect for the integrity of scripture (the original languages that is) as God's inspired word. The problem here is that God's inspired word has been intentionally misrepresented by those entrusted to teach it.

The Sons of Seth Heresy

Beginning around 400 A.D., portions of the church began to take an unusual stand against the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6. Rather than teaching what the text clearly says (especially when examined in Hebrew, below), and what had been the Orthodox Jewish and early Christian view for all time previous, the idea was introduced that this passage "really" referred to the lineages of Cain and Seth, the surviving sons of Adam. They said it simply means that the "rebellious" lines of Cain were marrying the "faithful" descendants of Seth. The unfounded presumption of this theory is that ALL of Seth's descendants were godly, while ALL of Cain's were rebellious. While a sketchy pattern can be drawn from Genesis, it is really a ridiculous injustice to the concept of free will and of God's dealing with individuals to dogmaticly hold to this position. It further implies that Sethites were somehow immune to the effects of the Fall itself.

Conspiracy aside, the angelic interpretation itself rather assaults the sensibilities of even those good men throughout the ages who would be tempted to apologetically shirk from believing and teaching God's word as innerrant truth. As J Timothy Unruh says "Modern Christians have often attempted to make this passage in Genesis more palatable intellectually by explaining the 'sons of God' as Sethites and the 'daughters of men' as Cainites, with their union representing the breaking down of the wall of separation between believers and unbelievers." (1) Ultimately, this position simply does not "hold water" under even casual study. (A brief but in-depth analysis of the Sons of Seth theory is online here, posted by researcher and author Chuck Missler. Because of this, I will only touch on the relevant points continuing from Unruh's book, published earlier and available to be read online in it's entirety here.)

Those who hold to the humanistic Sethite explanation have never been able to suggest a sufficient reason (or even a lame one actually) as to why the children of one "immoral" parent would be physical giants however, IF both parents were otherwise normal humans. While the angelic abduction scenario seems more like science fiction to today's intellectual Christian, the Sethite doctrine is actually easily revealed to be the fantasy!

The exact term "sons of God" (B'nai haElohim in Hebrew) used in Genesis 6:1-4, is used also in Job 1:6, 2:1 & 38:7 always referring to angels. Unfortunately, many competent Bible scholars of today still believe the "sons of God" are of human lineage. This is simply because it has been taught in seminaries for centuries, thanks to the deceptive and radically unsound doctrinal shift introduced by the church at this point in history.

Unruh continues, "The actual expression 'sons of God' occurs explicitly three other times (in Job, above)... and in each case the term refers indisputably to angelic beings.... There are as well implicit references to these sons of God in a number of other passages. There is no doubt in these passages the meaning applies exclusively to angels... A very similar term bar elohim is used in Daniel 3:25, and refers either to an angel or a theophany (ie, an appearance of God before the incarnation in Christ). The term 'sons of the mighty' (bene elim) is used in Psalm 29:1 and also Psalm 89:6, and again refers to angels. The sons of Elohim the mighty creator are confined to those creatures made directly by the Divine hand, and not born of other beings of their own order." (1) Any amount of honest research into this topic will turn up the same findings, that someone (or some being...) from within the 3rd - 5th century church did a great violence to the literal reading of the text in concocting the Sethite theory.

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, reknowned Judaic scholar and one of the foremost authorities on the nation of Israel, agrees almost ver batim with this assessment, in his work Messianic Christology. While many who support the Sethite doctrine argue that the ENGLISH phrase son(s) of God is referred to in the Bible as simply meaning "believers" in general, there is a world of difference between the Old and New Testament use of this term. In the New Testament sense, the term is applied to those who have become "sons of God" through their faith in Christ, but by adoption (Romans 8 ; 1 John).

Fruchtenbaum writes "The term 'sons of God' is a general term which means 'to be brought into existence by God's creative act.' Because the term carries this meaning, it is used very selectively. Throughout the Old Testament the term 'sons of God' is always used of angels. But some want to make Gen 6:1-4 the one exception, and there is simply no warrant for making an exception here. In the New Testament the term 'sons of God' is expanded. Adam is called the son of God (Luke 3:38) because he was brought into existence by creation. Believers are called sons of God (John 1:12) because believers are considered to be a new creation (Galtians 6:15). But in Genesis, the text is dealing with a specific Hebrew expression, benei elohim, and, as it is used in the Hebrew Old Testament, it is a term that is always used of angels. The distinction in this passage then is not between Sethites and Cainites, but between humanity and angels." (2)

Fruchtenbaum, Unruh, Huie, Missler and other modern authors all offer similar academic works on these subjects, all citing the same Old & New Test passages to put forth sound and extensive rebuttals to many other objections frequently offered in defense of the Sethite interpretation, or other claims of some "human lineage." The point here though is that the Sethite theory introduced to (unleashed upon) the Christian mindset by the Church at this time clearly denies the truth of Scripture. As Missler rightly asserts "There is no basis for restricting the text to either subset of Adam's descendants... The entire view is contrived on a series of assumptions without Scriptural support...

"The "Sons of Elohim" saw the daughters of men that they were fair and took them wives of all that they chose. It appears that the women had little say in the matter. The domineering implication hardly suggests a godly approach to the union. Even the mention that they saw that they were attractive seems out of place if only normal biology was involved. And were the daughters of Seth so unattractive? ... If the lines of Seth were so faithful, why did they perish in the flood?" (3)

Implanting these false doctrines, which survive to this day, was a long battle which some determined force from within the Church finally accomplished, and Origen and other faithful men paid the ultimate price by being labeled heretics, exiled and/or even publicly burned to initiate and execute this great "cover up." (This tragic history is catalogued in E.C. Prophet's Fallen Angels & The Origins of Evil; Why Church Fathers Supressed The Book of Enoch, but see also my disclaimers to her work in the review at right).

This pseudo-theology eventually succeeded in becoming the official church dogma however, surviving even to today's Bible institutions, despite the fact that the rest of the canon affirms the angelic interpretaion many times over.

It is worth noting before moving on, that the Bible is far from the only ancient source that makes the argument that angels interbred with humans. The entire pantheon of Greco-Roman mythology is the same story retold, but romanticized by cultures who were deceived by these so-called "gods" who mated with human women to produce Hercules, etc. "The Book of Antiquities" (which you'll find in the study of almost any pastor you ask) by ancient historian Flavius Josephus also tells us that angelic hybridization produced the "Titans" of Greco-Roman culture, as shown from this research posted online by Bryan T. Huie (btw... that Greek word "Titanos," which was eventually translated from the Greek version of the Hebrew OT to give us "giant" in the King James Version, can also be translated "grey." Just some food for thought). Josephus writes:

"...they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness; whereby they made God to be their enemy, for many angels* of God accompanied with women and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians called giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did..."

Continuing from Huie's webpage - * "This notion, that the fallen angels were, in some sense the fathers of the old giants, was the constant opinion of antiquity.
As you can see, Josephus believed and recorded that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 were fallen angels. As Whitson's footnote acknowledges, this belief was standard in the ancient world.

"Another well-known first century Jewish writer, Philo of Alexandria, shared Josephus' views on this topic. In his work "On the Giants," Philo wrote: "And when the angels of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, they took unto themselves wives of all them whom they chose.' Those beings, whom other philosophers call demons, Moses usually calls angels..."
(The Works of Philo, "De Gigantibus," translated by C.D. Yonge, p. 152)

"As shown above, the evidence that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 are fallen angels is substantial. By their sexual immorality, these angels produced offspring which were strong and violent. The concept of a race of giants which resulted from the union of gods and humans is virtually universal in the world's early civilizations." (4)

The "conspiracy" from within the Church quite literally changed the history of the world - both it's past, and it's future. Julius Africanus, St. Augustine and many others debunked and destroyed every document relating to the angelic invasion to successfully promote their "weather balloon / crash dummy" Sethite fallicy. Before long Christianity itself would eventually erode from being a dynamic, living, supernatural faith in a miracle working God to become merely "the new intellectualism," whose seat had moved from Athens to Rome.

The errors and ungodliness of the political elite who succeeded the 1st and 2nd century church's apostles, evangelists and martyrs are lamented elsewhere. But as this system began to promote the "mediation" of the priesthood (1 Tim 2:5), and as the doctrines of men (?) came to replace belief in the Word of God (Mark 6-8, 13), the then "Western world" spiraled downward into it's Dark Ages. The carefully chronicled histories of the ancients became known first as mythology, then finally as Saturday morning cartoons, and our race quite simply forgot about the truth.

But it's out there. In July 1947, about an hour outside of Roswell, New Mexico, the gods of old returned to find a basicly God-fearing, Mom & apple pie loving kind of 1940's Americana culture - but one that had also just harnessed the most destructive force the world had ever seen, and who now hold the undisputed title of "world champion superpower."

And thanks to the old church's now forgotten "cover-up" of the truth behind fiery chariots and abductions, we'd have NO CLUE as to what had just landed in our back yard...



But God did.



On the other side of the world, among a nearly forgotten people group that was - by destiny's clock - just seconds away from rejoining the fray of the mighty nations of the world, a goofy little kid chased his pet sheep into a cave. And on an otherwise normal hot summer's day in 1948, he walked out with the archeological find of the millenium.

A clay jar filled with some scrolls. Among them of course, were fragments from the book of Enoch.

As a matter of course, the Vatican paid top dollar for them.



"And I heard, but I understood not: then I said,
Oh my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

"And the angel said, Go thy way Daniel:
for the words are closed up and sealed
till the time of the end.

"Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried;
but the wicked shall do wickedly;
and none of the wicked shall understand;

but the wise shall understand."

End of the book of Daniel (ch 12 v 8-10)




Jubilees Chapter 10: 4-5 And Thou knowest how the Watchmen (fallen angels), the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day; And these spirits also which are alive, cast them into prison and hold them in the places of judgment, And let them not destroy the sons of thy servant, my God, For they are terrible and created for destroying; and may they not rule over the spirits of the living; For Thou alone knowest their judgment. And let them have no sway over the children of righteous from now on and to eternity.

According to the Book of Jasher

Chapter IV:18

And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force (rape) from their husbands according to their choice, And the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, In order to provoke the Lord.



According to Pastor Ward's "Origin of Demons" page,

"Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Giants (Nephilim). The 'Mighty Men of Renown' are the Gibborim created by the Watchers when they left their heavenly abode and came down to the daughters of men as recorded in Genesis Chapter 6:4 of the Old Testament. They are half breeds, angelic hybrids, the Titans.
The word in Greek - "titanos" - means greys.

When fallen angels shape-shift into a form of human being they can have intercourse but not without some aberrant genetic changes. The union of these beasts with humans produced children that were different in many ways. The first apparent difference was that they developed giantism. They were giants or Nephilim. Og the King of Bashan had a bed that was 13 to 15 feet long; and Goliath was 6 cubits tall (9 feet). The second aberration was that they had six fingers and six toes...

"The aberrant genetic tendencies of the Nephilim were unfortunately cloned into the D.N.A. of mankind. According to the Bible, only Noah escaped this genetic intervention at the time. There are no records of these perverse tendencies prior to the intervention of the Watchers. These dormant genetic tendencies still surface today at times in different people ... The Watchers are a guardian class of angels that were assigned to watch over the earth and protect mankind from just this sort of thing happening.


According to the Bible, the Book of Enoch, Jubilees, Jasher, and Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs, they rebelled against God and attempted to enslave the whole world and provoke God.

According to the Book of Jasher they not only tweaked with the D.N.A. of mankind but also with the animals. They may have produced such beasts as the Pegasus, Minotaur, the unicorn, and the dinosaurs.

There are some scholars that speculate that one day this will happen again to produce the antichrist. Fallen angels will make love to women and back breed until they have genetically produced a creature that is fully fallen angel and fully man. A b****** angelic incarnation. This may be an explanation for the reported cases of 'alien' abduction. If alien abductions are really happening then we know the source and the purpose. The source is fallen angels and the purpose is to breed the antichrist -- Satan incarnate.

Jesus said, "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." (Matthew 24:37). How were the days of Noah? They were violent and according to 2 Peter verse 2 these are the days that the angels fell and were judged. According to Jude 6 these are the days that the angels fell and some were chained in Tartarus.

Link to the discussion:
http://www.heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin/forum/iko...=5;t=140;st=120

The Book Of Enoch:
http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

DCMan...if they ARE bad, then possible chance would we have against them? None, that's what.

Also, if they are indeed partially responsible for having formed and guided religions over the centuries, then being responsible for "sending" someone like Jesus can't be all that bad, can it?

I'm prepared to think that not all extradimensional Beings are "good", but I'd sooner place my chips on someone or something who shoots down or disarms an ICBM in flight as well as in its own silo over an authority figure who goes to war on any given pretext.

If you believe the bible is true,then I can understand why you believe this. There might be a connection, never know.

Not only that, but the catholic chruch has also tried to cover up the fact that Yahweh and his highest assistants, the
Seraphim are actually the same fire breathing dragons believed in by virtually every human culture. Here are the facts:

Here are the facts:

1. The highest heavenly creatures are called Seraphim, a word which the highly esteemed and scholarly Jewish Enclyclopedia states means "fiery flying serpent", though medieval Christians have transformed these "dragons" into the more familiar, swan-winged, "cartoon" angels of popular culture. When the ancient Jews translated the word Seraphim into Greek, the word they used was drakon, which is the word our modern "dragon" is derived from.

2. The only graven image/idol Yahweh ever permits is that of a "fiery flying serpent", obviously his personal image, This image has supernatural powers, and Yahweh allows it to be freely worshipped in Solomon's temple. As soon as the idol is broken, disaster befalls Israel and it has never recovered until the late 20th century.

3. The flood story of Genesis is believed by most Biblical scholars to be a "retelling" of near identical, yet far older Sumerian versions in which the God name Enlil, who is also subservient to a greater Creator God is called "a Great Serpent-Dragon of Heaven". His hymns also associate him with rainbows as we see in Genesis, and he is called "the good shepherd".

4. Some scholars acknowledge that the Name Yahweh comes from the Cannanite Dragon God Yaw, who like the Biblical Yahweh is a god of storms and floods, but is a "son" of the true Creator Elohim, also the name of the Creator in Genesis, not Yahweh.

5. Virtually every world culture had identified the winged intelligent dragon as a real creature, and most of the earliest cultures recognize it as the creatue that brought them knowledge of agriculture and technology. This is also true in the Judaic legends with the reptilian "watchers".

6. In Exodous, Yahweh leaves his dragon sized tent, and flies ahead of the Israelites to burn away impassable briars and scorpions. He marks the route by spewing smoke and fire.

7. Yahweh plops his huge dragon body in the bed of the Jordan River upstream to divert its flow so the Hebrews can cross its bed to attack Jericho.

8. He is specifically described spewing fire from his mouth and smoke from his nostrils, exactly like the dragon like Leviathan that the Bible states he "plays" with. (A female dragon?)

9. Many biblical passages imply that Yahweh physically consumed his meat offerings unlike the "fake" gods of other cultures. The Bible is very specific that Yahweh wanted salt on his meat as well, suggesting these offereing were physically consumed and not merely burned to ashes.

10. Like many legendary dragons, Yahweh occasionally "consumes" humans as well, to include two of Aaron's sons who prepared a sacrifice wrong. In scripture, Yahweh demanded the first born of all Israelites, but the bible says it was possible to pay him money instead, on a sliding scale, also indicating the univesal dragon love of hoarding treasure.

11. The preferred prey of dragons in most cultures are "human virgins" for reasons which are not entirely understood. This trait is very apparent in the Bible as well, where Moses presents Yahweh with 32 Midianite virgins after the Israelite destruction of this tribe. No more is said of them so we can only assume they were "consumed" like Aaron's sons.

12. The Persian Zoroastrians, whom share much reiligous doctrine with Christianity clearly state in their own scriptures (the Denkard), that the "God" of Judaism and Christianity who watched of the Israelites and provided their laws was a dragon, and brother to the dragon Ahriman in their own religion. Interestingly, the storm dragon of Sumeria who flooded the world happened to be brother to the dragon Enki who livied the the garden of Eden and who "tricked" a man named "Adam" out of eternal life.

13. Some Christian gnostics also state Yahweh is a dragon in their scriptures.

14. Jesus stated the Pharisees were worshipping a creature that was NOT his father. Many Christians claim Jesus meant Satan, but this does not make sense, for the Jews clearly worshipped Yahweh and clearly recognized Satan as a distinctly different creature which they definately DID NOT worship. Could Jesus have been referring to the Yahweh dragon? After all he did not call to Yahweh from the cross, but to El. The first paragraphs of the Bible show these are two different entities, for El's creation story is completely different from Yahweh's, far less scientific one.

15. Yahweh is described with "feathers", as depicted on most of the most acnient dragon wings and this idea lasted until medieval times, after which dragons became less commonly seen. Saphira in Eragon is reminesecent of these ancient dragon depictions, and probably inspired the design of this character.

Actually there is enough evidence of Yahweh "being a dragon" to literally "fill a book", (as it indeed has, in my upcoming one on this precise subject des), but thought this is an adequate amount of Biblical facts to gender an interesting discussion.

Can anyone refute these Biblical facts? And shouldn't Christians want to embrace these facts, for the worldwide belief in dragons as benificent supernatural entities has far more theological and even scientific precedent than "a bearded old guy on a golden throne? Might it not be a good idea to recreate the fiery flying serpent image Yahweh ordered Moses to make, something very good that cured sickness, and which Yahweh allowed to be worshipped in his temple for centuries, Israel prospering during all the time it was worshipped, and was virtually annihlated as soon as it was broken?
And might there not be some volunteer virgins willing to appease Him for the good of all mankind, not to mention starting up a daily ration of unblemished calves and lambs like the good old days? And liqour. He asks for liquor in the Book of Genesis. (Actually a lot of the ancient Dragon Gods ask for liquor).

Umm... how was it shot down? As of right now, its still unknown whether life exists anywhere else than on Earth.

How could it not? The universe is HUGE! How can we be the only planet in the universe with life? There could be another planet like Earth in another galaxy! How can we be the only ones? It's improbable!

EDIT:

And as Carl Sagen said, "If we were alone in the universe, it would be an awful waste of space."

Sorry if I spelled his last name wrong.

Thank you for proving my point. By admitting it is improbable, you admit it is not impossible... so once again, how was that claim shot down by the meteorite?

The sky is green.

Origen was an heretic. - a gnostic heretic. He is not to be believed.
The book of enoch is a forgery. Enoch didn't write it. It is not scripture. The book of Enoch is not to be believed, either.
If you want truth, then stay with the inspired Word of God, the King James version bible.

The conscious Gods wants you to become like them, Gods. What will happen on earth are your doing. Protect it from destruction and save all species from extinction. Previous declared Gods are not coming back.

You can drum up as many ancient stories as you want, the objective fact is that not one of them counts for a single iota of proof, and there's nothing you can do about that.

"The trick is, after all, obvious. The Theist takes terms that can apply to sentient life alone, and applies them to the universe at large. He talks about means, that is, the deliberate planning to achieve certain ends, and then says that as there are means there must be ends. Having, unperceived, placed the rabbit in the hat, he is able to bring it forth to the admiration of his audience."
- Chapman Cohen, "Deity and Design" (1912)

Yes. Just... yes.

Some of this is based on the Bible, but much is later "Chrisitian Mythology" like the fallen angels and battle against an evil Satan which was stolen by John of Patmos from Zoroastrian scriptures...... virtually identical storyline except the dragon's name was changed from Ahriman to Satan.


The true Hebrew meaning of the winged heavenly creatures called seraphim are "fiery flying serpents". And to remove all doubt, when the Jews translated their scriptures to Greek, they called the seraphim "drakons". And we see these same "dragons" in every human culture, usually benevolent in advanced civilizatins, and feared in the myths of savages and barbarians (like the northern europeans of ancient times).

But you are right about angels. They do not have wings in the Bible. They are simply long lived humans and are said to subsist on "manna" in heaven, (which may refer to another dimension), and conventional food on earth. Both Jewish and early Christian scriptures state the "dragons" consume "wicked" humans, which rules out the idea they are simply a poetic way of describing a spaceship.


In the original bible, and not the "Star Trek edition", even God gets around riding on the back of a Cherubim, which early christians did not think was a chubby baby, but also a classic, winged reptilian "dragon", as we see in illuminated bibles regarding those scriptures of God riding on the back of one.

And the pillars of smoke and fire that frightened the egyptians and guided the Israelites? Not a spaceship. Before Star Trek, and like the Bible says, this was the fiery breath, and smoking nostrils of Yahweh, who was originally not the Creator (who was called El), but merely the "Watcher" dragon of the Hebrews, and even many ancient Christians understood this, as their scriptures confirm.

As another poster pointed out, the Bible is not the only theology that spoke of uncannily similar "Savior Figures" and guardian "watcher" dragons. They are universal, indicating that if there is truth behind a deity, it certainly would not be revealed to only one tribe of desert nomads and their later converts. But it is natural for every culture to believe "their way is the only way".

Their Home Galaxy with Mega solar systems will intersect with our solar system by 2012.

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