I agree that marketing (godvertising) is an excellent word.

But when you throw all logic into the outhouse and sing "LA LA LA ... I can't hear you"-- that seems pretty much like brainwashing >which can be an art of seduction >just like advertising (which is seduction>selling dreams)

I've sat with christian friends watching TV, such as National Geographic, Discovery Channel and whenever something comes on about evolution or some Archeological documentary contradicting the bible, I noticed they want to change the channel real quick. If they are visiting me they keep interrupting or get this glazy eyed look into space because they are blocking (my sister -a christian does this). It makes them uncomfortable. If you confront them directly the the excuse is ALWAYS Satan...that's always the excuse for denying facts or any kind of evidence>now that is HAVING YOUR MIND IN THE BASKET--how can you convince or argue with that ?.Satan is a fantastic invention--better than god

Ok I'll be nice and call it seduction..........72 virgins waiting in heaven and all that good stuff

Aha!, But I would say, personally from my experience, exactly the same thing about god (and though I have no personal experience of him,by default satan) Without getting into a discussion about reality, any belief system which is ingrained enough, becomes a reality.Its effects are just as concrete as if it was a reality. My "argument" was trying to go on to illustrate that all parents have a duty to educate their children as best they can in the world as they percieve it, and how that child can best/most profitably interact with that world. For example, a child educated in a fundamentalist christian or an atheist reality would have great difficulty surviving in an islamic reality.

Well then might might as well raise little Satanists & Astrologists. I realise it's a parents right to teach there kids what they deem appropriate.

My parents always left it up to me,while presenting their opinions. I like how my parents admitted they didn't have all the answers,this made me
respect them. In the meanwhile my grandmother & aunts and uncles tried to mold my mind into believing demons ,devils, possession and such existed. You have no idea what phobias & neurotic behaviors this caused. If I were my parents I would have raised some HELL with them. (I had to live with my grandmother for many years-the deal was I would go to bible studies & church if she helped out with us kids)My grandmother made sure my dad would feel guilty if he didn't play the game.

I think we could teach them philosophy and different viewpoints,yes, ethics.


We are supposed to be raising our children to learn to be adult in order to do this, we have to give them the tools. The tools to be inquisitive, to think through their choices & allow them to see & feel the consequences . How do they learn to stand up to peer pressure if we dont allow them to THINK or question the paths of other people. To protect children from the realities of life is to STUNT their growth



But you can definitely give your opinion on how you feel on a subject such as faith ,and why you have it.

But to teach children something as a FACT you must be able to REALLY back it up.

"I believe"> doesn't make it a fact. But I guess people own their kids minds for a while.

Religion was not made up to brainwash. It was made up to explain the unexplainable. Somewhere in history, people realized that religion could be used to brainwash and instill fear. Even now, religious leaders in the middle east are using religion as an excuse to wage war.

Yes , perhaps in a world/society filled with Satanists or Astrologists it would be best to teach the children how to think and behave like one of them. You might also need to teach them that if they had other opinions they needed to think carefully about how and where they expressed them. I live in a very multicultural and democratic society, but even here, one needs to be careful when expressing opinions which diverge strongly from those of the "mainstream." The beauty of a site like this is that it allows peole to express a wide range of personal belief systems, without any personal danger or comebacks.

That's a good answer, and I have to say I agree with everything you wrote. However, I'm not sure how this response gels with the generalisation that has been made by you and others that religion does brainwash - when you yourself stated that it depends on the circumstances surrounding it, which means it is not really religion but a combination of many factors, of which religion is one of those.

Know what I mean

~ Regards, PA

I see what you mean, however my posts here were all about the techniques used in religion to either sway people into the belief, or to keep them believing. I'm well aware there may be some people who did make a considered choice to actually join a religion, would those people be able to 'deconvert' without some very traumatic emotional/psychological response though? This is the effect the 'breaking' of the brainwashing has on the deconvertee.

Once you're in, you're hooked. The brainwashing doesn't have to be just to convert, it can be to keep.

I agree that religion was made to explain the unexplainable but much has been explained. So now ?

I still think people need that chemical cocktail in the brain that religious ecstacy can produce>like romantic love.

And it makes fear of death more bearable and seperation of loved ones.

People have never been truly happy with the state of the world(for good reason) and are hoping for an escape this way or change.

Humans are VERY GULLIBLE by nature, has this not been shown repeatedly through research & history ? Look around you.

Our imaginations are so fantastic and reality (that which we can see anyways) is so DULL in comparison. Maybe some of us have to make things up to catch up with our brains ?

the brainwashing can be clearly seen in the catholic religion
let's take premarital sex for example
before st. augusine came along premarital sex was everywhere
well im don't remember the entire story
but one thing's for sure
he banned premarital sex and ever since that's what the church has been going with and preaching
ok..right.. this is the same guy who use to be a sex addict

Yeah, he went from sex addict to sex hater. Maybe he became secretly impotent ?

Uuuuuhhhhhh, I don't think Catholic pre-marital sex brainwashing is working... I can't come up with a single catholic I know that didn't engage in pre-marital sex... at least not in the USA...

I'm sure they are feeling GUILTY though, LOL. All it produces is guilt


oops...and unplanned pregnancies..since the pope shuns birth control too

Ya, and how many modern Catholics do you know that don't use birth control? I personally don't know any (of course there are some that don't, but I don't know any).

I do know mormons that still seem to pro-create like bunnies. One of my childhood girlfriends is mormon and she has 8 kids. I think she finally cut her husband off. LOL

Her name wasn't Mrs Bobbit, or something similar, by any chance?

Oh I certainly believe it is. That's the biggest reason I've come to dislike religion more and more (lol gr1m kvlt frostbitten) since I was a child.

I've never had a strong faith. I've never really seen the point in believing. It doesn't benefit me. However, despite this, I still find myself referring to Heaven or Hell, using phrases like "God help me" and such. Why would I continue to say such things when I believe them to be nonsense? It's just that they're scarred into my brain.

When I realised this some time ago I was appalled by it. It seemed to me that organised religion targets the young, who don't have the power to choose for themselves, and does it's best to suck them in while it still can; and it permanently leaves its mark.

I respect those with faith, but as far as I see, organised religion is one of the biggest sources of hate and evil in our world.

Hi Nik

I disagree, everyone has a choice. If they chose to believe that and follow the rules so be it Free will.

Shuns birth control? haha he doesn't even have kids!

I have seen and studied many different denominations and branches of religion. I do agree that it is a form of brainwashing, but the catch to it is that the members want to be brainwashed.
Now, they arent' stepping into the houses of worship with the intent on actually getting brainwashed. They enter usually because they are confused, and lost. They feel failure in some aspect of their life, and need guidance. They are under the impression that they cannot make it in life on their own, so they need someone or something in their life to tell them which way to go. They are unable, or afraid, to think for themselves because of either their own failures in life, or the failures their parents or other family members have experienced. They want and need someone to hold their hands, and show them the way. These are usually the people that turn out to be fanatical about their religions.

I should say though, that not all people use religion in the way I have described above. Some people just like the feeling that their faith in a higher power brings them. The safety and comfort in knowing that if they lead a good life, that they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I do very much believe though, that religion is a vital and necessary part of society. When people do feel lost, of frightened, and are afraid, or simply need someone or something to tell them that everything will be alright, their religion will be there for them. Without it, what would these people turn to? Also, what would the world be like if people didn't believe in heaven and hell?? Their would be no fear of going to hell when they die for their bad deeds. No threat of eternal damnation for their evil ways. Also, no promise of heaven for living a good life. Society in general needs guidance, with rewards for good behavior, and punishments for bad behavior. Laws and governments are put in place to govern our everyday lives, but religion is important to guide us morally.

I personally am not a religious man. I do believe in a higher power. I do believe in heaven and hell. I, however, have not found one religion that in my opinion has got it right. I don't believe that God would send me to hell for not going to church every Sunday, or for eating pork on a Friday.
The bible cannot be taken literally. It is a book, written by men, translated many times in many different languages, and interpreted by the last person to translate it. I know this sounds bad, but it really is nothing more than a story book(waiting for the lightning). It is a collection of stories, put together with the purpose of teaching lessons. Stories with good moral lessons to them. I believe most of the characters really existed at some time, but the stories of the experiences have probably been dramatized by the authors, then a little more by a translator, then again by the next translator, and so on.

In short, religion can and will brainwash a person, but only if they willingly let it. Too many people abuse religion. Religion should be something to help you in your life, not tell you how to run your life. To give you examples of what you could do when your not sure what decision to make, not to tell you what you have to do, or you will burn in hell. The saying "God helps those who help themselves" has more meaning behind it, in my opinion, than most people realize. I don't believe that God wants a bunch of people who can't or won't think for themselves, hiding behind religion, and using it as a shield against the real world. God gave us minds, and the ability to make decisions. God would not punish people for making their own, right, moral chioces in life. God would, I believe, reward people for using the abilities he gave them to their fullest, and in the way he probably intended.

Nice post bigk1974! I'd agree with the vast majority of it.

Welcome to UM

Sure he uses birth control, it's called abstinence. 100% effective....

- Edit -

I like the way you see things

I think possibly if we are talking along the lines of "brainwashing" as per religious beliefs, we might get a more accurate depiction of whats going on if we render "brainwashing" down to its actual term used by many religious groups and thats......Conversion.

I do see though how , once a person is converted how the conversion is maintained.

Alot of christian groups only associate with other members of the church, they stay within the church community , or other church groups that follow the same doctrines. This is obviously done to prevent outside influence....a secular influence......this is promoted within the community....alot of times secular contacts are frowned apon.

I know some christian families that home-school their kids within the church......sure a christian schooling.....but I have to wonder if this is to keep them out of the libraries, away from other opinions and theories?

Once a person is converted to the faith they are usually only surronded by other christians , totally inundated with the faith....often friends that they had prior to conversion are let go.

It is of upmost importance for churches to propagate their congregations, in order to keep the church alive....this is why revivals, and conversion techniques are utilized.

That was my point also the point of if he had a few kids, preferably boys, he'd probably encourage birth control finally. It was a joke

what i meant by that is they've done a good job making people think that it is along the lines of commiting sin in others words they've given people another thing to feel guilty about. ofcourse there's the part where Jesus forgives us on everything so that's why you still have people getting it on..personally i think this is the most confusing part of the catholic faith..you do something wrong and you get forgiven..Jesus said he forgives us unconditionally..so you could sin a million times and it will say nothing on ur record up in heaven course as long as you say the magic words IM SORRY and mean it like the way Jesus said we shud..so what's the point of acting all perfect like some religious people are..yea i hate most of them, i hate how they try to get so technical of what's good or not..if anything there the ones going in hell for preaching the wrong thing

MW lol I believe you

Where I come from the amount of teenage pregnancies from young catholic girls is through the roof!!!

43 people say yes? What a bunch of closet atheists!

you seem to think only atheists are non believers of religion...WOW LOL


try again..

No I actually just decided to profile everyone into a group that I saw fitting.. It's a lot easier than listing off all the different subcategories of religious pariahs that came up with their own little 'cliques'.

You can't be a closet atheist if you believe in God....

lots of people like me that believe in God and not the whole christianity thing...so no that does not fit as a closet atheist!!