I got a thinkiing the other night, and wondering how many people on earth will be thinking of and wondering what santa will be bringing them this year?
And how many of those who are wishing for santa to turn up with his sack of toys etc are actually of the correct faith to follow this belief?
And what faith is the correct one, yes i am fully aware that the idea of santa is a fable, some christians feel it takes away from the idea of a christ, but i bet they still wake up all excited xmas morning and rip open there gifts etc?
Just wondering is all...

I think that anyone can believe in Santa, I work in a Hospital and I have patients of all religions, colours and faiths who all wish me a Merry Christmas on their way out. Yes the idea of Santa is a fable but I still believe even though I have no religious beliefs.

Santa a myth! How can you say such a thing. You'll be getting coal in your stocking.

I was Born a Jew , but love the good will which comes with all the santa stories, and just atributed God, The father with playing a Fairy tale on all the kids, its a good fairytale with morals and gifts Tears and Joy. I think it's a Good Idea.

Ever picture God looking like Santa?

I have, and the Holy spirit is Mrs Clause, and I truly am their loving son.
I believe!

Happy christmas Belial!

Love Omnaka

Santa wont come around here for years since I took a shot at Cupid last year.

But i thought santa is loosely based on an actual historical figure: St Nicholas

actually santa is a figment created by the church to control the new pagans they absorbed

look it up all your christmas traditions [rituals] are old pagen super stition.

santa though is a figure from ancient winter solstice celebrations. based on marduk[sacrifices], then chronus[sacrifices], then odin[getting drunk/sacrifices], then st. nick[generosity], then coca cola turned him into the commercial santa[must buy presents].
and the only reason "christ"mass exists is because the church wanted to deter baby sacrifices on the solstice.[it has now real christian meaning]
in fact lyeing[about santa] to children is disgusting you teach them its okay to lie.

and if your christian you shouldnt be practicing pagen traditions.

Hmm for many Santa is just the most outrageously good marketing tool.

Besides the anti-baby sacrifice stuff, I was always under the impression that Santa, being inspired to generosity by either god (in giving Jesus to people) or the 'wise men' bearing gifts to Jesus, decided to give gifts to all children and thus 'spread the love.' Why shouldn't he practice generosity with jewish, muslim, pagan, atheist, whatever children as well as christian?

Giving and spreading happiness is by no means unique to christianity. :/

I'm not christian so it o.k with me. the story that i heard was santa was inspired by St Nicholas who would spread good will and cheer by giving to the poor etc buy visiting them at there houses etc. all i know is that most christians dislike the idea of santa etc. yea i know about the coca cola thing as well. i also heard that traditionally he was wearing a green suit into coca cola made him red.

mmmmm coal. ever try that coal bubblegum ? lol. it's great. I picked some up for the kids.




Santa encompasses all religions. He doesn't discriminate !!

mhm. As I understand it Christmas is Santa Claus Birthday XP

Seriously though, the idea of giving gifts at this time of year predates Christianity. Its just an example of a tradition that Christians stole from the Pagans to attract them to their new cult.

Besides which I think Christmas in recent years has lost all religious conections and is more about getting presents and eating and drinking way to much. As well as bad music and crap TV

I am Protestant Christian and the story you heard about Santa is the story I was raised with.

I disagree with you about "most christians dislike the idea of santa etc"
I think you're confusing religions here, because Protestant Christians, Catholics, Fundamentalists and the hundreds of other sects don't all believe exactly the same when it comes to Santa.

In my experience Christians like being able to give gifts in under the guise of Santa because Biblically speaking, doing good works should be done in secrecy...

This is just my Opinion...

Santa is an anagram of Satan.

He sports red, Satan is commonly depicted as being red.

He sneaks into your homes while you're sleeping through chimney's, keyholes and via teleportation. =vampiristic characteristics = MAGIC!

He has a creepy fascination with children. And what is Satan the spoiler of? He can always get to them no matter where they are, he knows what they're thinking, he has a naughty list so as to know which to spank.

He gives you gifts seemingly out of the kindness of his heart...what happens when you receive gifts from the dark lord? Eve knows full well.

What more proof do we need?!

Santa = Carrot Top

Carrot Top backwards = Pot Torrac...I don't know what it means, but it sounds sinister.

Carrot Top anagramated = nothing coherent...but anything containing the words "crap, rat, rot" can't be good.

Be afraid.

Something I've learned this christmas, my little boy is profoundly autistic, he cannot do anything for himself, can't talk, still in nappies - I've always felt sad that he doesn't understand what christmas is, but this year I KNOW he's getting the "Christmas Tingle" as we call it in our house, he knows something is happening and that it's good and exciting - though he doesn't know what it is, he knows he needs to be happy about it and he is, he nearly wet himself when we put the tree up.

So that's my christmas gift this year, my son's christmas tingle. As he has no idea of religion, is the santa clausey aspect of christmas that makes him feel this way? if so, hype and commercialisation or not, it's all good in my eyes.

Jesus christ came to this earth to save us, and we celebrate his birth on christmas, Its also about family. I think santa is something great for children, But But as we get older It should be more about giving rather than getting. We have let commercialism take over christmas, My family always used this time to gather family and be happy we are so blessed in our lives. I have nothing against santa but thats not all christmas is about.Giving, Sharing, celebrating Christ being born. Always a pleasure.

Regency, that made my heart happy. I have an autistic son, though not so profoundly affected. Christmas gets him the same way.



Santa is the epitome of giving and sharing. He is generosity personified. I don't understand how people can have a problem with that.

That is awesome that he gets the feeling that something is up. That IS a great Christmas gift.

THat is so awsome,
Some of My greates examples of Love and compassion have come from Autistic Children. They love unconditional, even if they know nothing about religion, They live the love spoken about in most holy books better than those who read and Practice What the interpret as Love.
What a Blessing you have in your child.

I know Father is proud of you.

So amI , Raising an autistic child is hard at times, but the love will make up for this.

Bless You and your family Regency.

Love Omnaka

Thanks guys x x x

Santa is more real than "Gods". Gods are *snip*.
Christians stole bits & bobs of stuff & made it into a *cut* religion.
Now. Stop calling it CHRISTmas!!! *clip*
It IS a PAGAN festival that you stole & Villified.

Pagans worshiped women, because women are the bringers of new life.
*removed*
Women are absolutely fantastic.The givers of life, the givers of comfort to men.

Forget your *cut* religion & try living in the REAL PAGAN world.

Aw Reg...You are receiving the perfect Christmas gift, and whatever is making him feel this way is wonderful....A very Happy and Wonderful Holiday to you and yours,.........goalie

they should go back to celebrating 'xmas' like it was before christian hijacked it ---- like mardi gras !

the puritians rejected christmas. thought it pagan - because it is.

and Santa as we have him now doesn't discriminate nor care what religion you follow ! commercial ? no doubt , but who here hasn't gotten a gift made of pine cones sprinkled with glitter with ribbons tied to them that a 6 year old made and hasn't felt that was the best ?

I accually said NOTHING against santa, I don't see where anyone would. I was saying that christmas is about sharing, caring, seeing how blessed we are. And giving ,not always getting to our friends loved ones and people who can't provide their families christmas. And most important celebrating the birth of our lord Jesus Christ. always a pleasure defending christmas.

I will not argue with you about your post, nor will I try and debate it. You need to read the rules and more important than that RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE. I have never read such an offensive post and I am boiling mad that you have such little regaurd for your fellow members and their beliefs. I have never written a reply like this and never thought I would because even though I may not agree with someone I do show them deserved respect for their beliefs. You should be so ashamed of yourself! I am very ashamed for you.

Thats a gift so very special, you could never find that in a store no ,matter how much you spend. Merry christmas and a happy new year full of renewed hope. I wish you and your famil all the best, Always a pleasure.

Rocket88 - please remember what section of the board you are posting in. This is the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board, and I would ask that you read the guidelines pinned at the top of every page on this board. While what you wrote was interesting, it was also inflammatory and unacceptable for this part of the board. Take your arguments to the Spirituality vs Skepticism board. Thank you,

Excellent post.

And to add one christian perspective.

In my mind the spirit (and joy) of christmas is in giving, rather than in receiving. Thus, in many ways, santa is an excellent metaphor /allegory for christ, who gave us the joy of salvation with his sacrifice, and even for god who, in creating us, gave us the greatest gift of all. (our lives)

"Stolen" is such an emotive and value- laden word. Let us, more accurately, say adopted and adapted. Certainly, christians did this with many late pagan symbols and ceremonies. However, those pagans had done the same from earlier celtic rites, and they from even earlier peoples. In fact, if you go back to the earliest archaeological records, you will find evidence of veneration of such things as the equinoxes and solstices. This is a natural response by people who are entirely dependent on nature, and illustrates how religion; adapts to, makes use of, and tries to explain, unknown forces; by ritual and worship.

Pagan worship, while it has some inherently useful values for hunters and gatherers, was a much less useful religion for herders and farmers. Naturally, such people as the early jews, and later christians, adapted "pagan" ceremonies. People have always experienced the existence of god through the; physical realities, culture, and logical possibilities apparent to them, within the time and society in which they live.

When I experience the same god as a cro magnon, druid, early jew, or early christian, I neither see, nor understand/experience, him in the same way they did. I bring a completely different perspective to the experience.

Thanks Goalie - and a merry christmas to you and your family too, hope it's a good one!!

Reg x



Thanks too, Sandee, it is a gift he's given us.

While that argument can be made, I don't know how historically accurate it is. But the modern-day sentiment certainly is accurate. Have you ever heard a Christmas song called "We are the Reason"? We (the music team at my church) sung it a couple of years back over Christmas. It was a take on the old adage "Jesus is the reason for the season", but it puts it into what I think is a much better theological context - We are the reason Jesus came to save, so we are the reason for the season. It was one of the most beautiful songs I had ever heard:

Verse 1
As little children
We would dream of Christmas morn
Of all the gifts and toys
We knew we'd find
But we never realized
A baby born one blessed night
Gave us the greatest gift of our lives

Chorus
We are the reason
That He gave His life
We are the reason
That He suffered and died
To a world that was lost
He gave all He could give
To show us the reason to live

Verse 2
As the years went by
We learned more about gifts
Of the giving of ourselves
And what that means
On a dark and cloudy day
A man hung crying in the rain
Because of love, Because of love

Chorus
And we are the reason
That he gave his life
We are the reason
Jesus suffered and died.
To a world that was lost he gave all he could give
To show us the reason to live

Bridge
I've finally found the reason for living
It's in giving every part of my heart to Him
In all that I do every word that I say
I'll be giving my all just for Him, for Him

Chorus
And we are the reason that he gave his life
We are the reason
Jesus suffered and died.
To a world that was lost
He gave all he could give
To show us the reason to live. (repeat chorus)

Coda
He is my reason to live

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The music to this song is just fantastic, I would highly recommend it for any Christmas service. All the best, Mr Walker. Merry Christmas.

~ Regards, PA

You're right, and the South European Saint Nick was a lot more interesting. He dressed like "the Pope" (a catholic bishop, actually) and pulled on a chain a monstrous red beast with horns called by various names including beezlebub. If you were a bad child, St. Nick would let the monster put you in his sack to by gobbled up at its leisure. This is still reenacted in many villages. That is way more entertaining than the American Santa who is just a fat guy with reindeer. In holland St. Nick was a bit nicer, he just had as a sidekick a big black Moor instead of a demon-dragon, but he too, carried off bad children in his sack.

I thought awwww that's nice and normal


Then.....





I am afraid I will have to not believe a word of that. No offence to you of course.

where did u get that from?

Santa is only a bad idea if you use it as a lie. I think that's what so many people forget, and so we get the rabid "Santa is an evil lie and against God, blah blah blah". It really seems absurd.

We had great fun with Christmas and Santa with my kids, and now that they are teenagers, I STILL have fun. The rule in my house is, you don't need to believe in Santa if you don't want to. But if he is not real, then he can't come and leave presents, right? My kids give me the stink-eye, but when they are in their 30's, that rule will remain in my house. Believe and get, or don't believe and don't get. (Even their friends won't contradict me, for fear I'll call their parents and tell them their kids don't want any presents).

It's all about celebrating family and giving. So get over it you anti-Santa freaks out there. It's just FUN. Remember that?

Since Christmas is supposed to be the celebration of Christ it is fine but soon as people start focusing more on Santa then all of a sudden he becomes evil or bad. I agree it is absurd. Just be happy that it brings people together and brings goodwill.

Nice post, Two in two days? Dare I say you have turned the corner. Haha! Always a pleasure.

It is a shame that we even have to question Santa.

Now, when we are grown up we pretend we know everything. How was it when we were young? Didn't we enjoy the Santa Claus Time? Now matter where and what he is or was called.

Santa, Deda Mraz ( Bosnian, Croation, Serbian ), Nickolaus ( German )...........Who cares where it comes from. To many grinches around who do not want to share with their kids, I guess.

Good Job Santa, keep it up.

Well DC, I knew about Black Peter, but Santa's Dragon-Deer is a new one to me. Talk about naughty-or-nice.
Though, it fits in well with Grimm's Fairy Tales and other "scare the crud out of em" child-rearing techniques of the age.
Have you any excerpts or images?

I found it on Wiki. First go to Black Pieter and you will see links to other St Nick "Companions". One is called Beezlebub. This goes back the to medieval Christian ocncept of compassionate saints controlling dragons, on this dragon is used to keep the kids in line. The modern concept is more of a "red devil" but as you know, this is an evolution from a red dragon. It was easier for people to dress as a devil than a dragon for the many old folk pageants, which is why Satan also becam anthropomorshised. I'll try to have a "Christmas dragon" story out before Christmas!

Just thinking now how i can work that into the father christmas myth i've been telling my daughter.

Shouldn't we actually call him "Santo Klaus" instead? You know, he's a man, and he's probably German...so uh, I guess "Santo Klaus" is much fit. Unless you feel that the name sounds like something that will "Rock You Like A Hurricane", then "Santa Claus" is much better...Hmmmm.

errr so did you kill him?

arggg ok whatever
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...howtopic=110390

thanks