I hate bringing up this issue for it's own sake because I feel in alot of ways it's beating a dead horse. Science is more sure than not it's a natural state , but that is not why I ask.

I ask because Atheists do not believe in God. So I wonder what their stance is on this subject in relation to the fact that the only reason at it's base that gays and lesbians are 'looked down at ' 'viewed as immoral' or 'unnatural' is solely religious thinking and permeation of society .

So I also wonder do Atheists hold religious views ( of any sort , but gays and lesbians is the easiest subject to draw this out) and are not aware of it ?

I'd be interested to see the responses.

I voted indifferent. As an atheist I really do not care what sexual orientation you are or why you chose it. Natural, conscious decision, boredom etc I do not care.

Live your life the way you want to. Everyone is equal and has the right to do what they want to do. I want to see everyone held to the same standards across the board no matter of sex, race, orientation and so on. As long as they harm no one with their actions it doesn't matter.

Making sure they are consenting adults and you do no harm to anyone/thing. These would probably be the only rules I see as needed for this.

Fairly simple all in all.....

Kevin A.

I chose natural.



Love is not just experienced between the opposite sex.


It might not float my boat and can seem a little disturbing to me but it is a natural thing.

I consider myself an agnostic more than an athiest . but thats only because people assume we have to have a label at all . . really im just me but i dont follow religion so i guess i qualify to answer this question .

i was in two minds do i put natural or indifferent . i eventually voted natural.but i guess that both fit because i think its natural for a woman to love another woman or a man to love another man and also indifferent because i couldnt care less it really doesn't bother me what people choose to do its their life not mine . just because they make a diffeent choice to me doesn't make their choice wrong and mine right.

Each to their own i say

I chose ........................ its wrong..cuz its a choice and they are doing wrong LOL <-----------------------BM is not all that good at telling porkies


Of course I picked - Natural..only because I believe its the same as straights..we cant help how we are born..so shut up and deal with it lol

Oh crud, I should stay off of UM until after I have my first cuppa coffee in the morning. I did vote (it's not too hard to guess how I voted) but I'm not an Atheist... but if it counts, I felt that way when I was an atheist/agnostic too. Nothing's changed.

I used to be agnostic, but i'm not so sure now, if i had voted it would have been "Indifferent" but to say if it's natural or not is a bit more complex, inserting my penis into an orifice designed for waste disposal isn't natural, many heterosexuals participate in this practice and nether is it natural for them, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, so basically it's not natural, but i'd fight for your right to do it.

I voted natural....cause it is....there is no debate on this subject.....period!!

The only time this subject comes to an apogee where it need be debated is when religious ideals force an individual to create an aberration of fact or logic.

I have to scratch my head in utter confusion at a religious group that hates homosexuals because their bible says its an "abomination".....yet love eating bacon and possibly shellfish which the bible says is an "abomination" aswell.
Leviticus

I'd feel less disgusted if they carried signs that said "Jesus Hates Bacon and Clams"......instead of ignoring fact and directing their hate towards fellow human beings!!!!

Bigotry will poke it's spiney tentacle through to everyday life regardless of what camouflage is used to conceal it.......put a pretty pink bonnette on it , or religious garb and its still the same thing......Bigotry!!!!

I dont care what anyone does in the privacy of their homes, its their buisness..

Gays should have the same rights to marriage as everyone else and not be discriminated against...

But the problems I have is that sometimes the gay community asks to much, they want it to be an election issue every goddam day..

THey label anyone who disagree's with them a homophobe..

No one is SCARED of homosexuals, we just dont think its right (im not 100% for it either eh)...

I hope that made sense (gay marriage=fine by me, gay movment/labeling homophobia=just giving the gay community a bad name)

Homosexuality is without a doubt a natural occurrence.

I voted it's natural. How can it not be? Humans are hardly the only species on this rock that practice homosexuality. It's found all throughout the animal kingdom.

But of course I'm sure that some dolphins having a good ol' gay time is the work of the devil.

Humans are hardly the only species that kill sh**. But it's illegal for us to do it? I voted indifferent cause I don't really care at all. Besides who are we to decide whats natural and whats not.

It's the same as my attitude towards religious minded people " it's your way of life , the way you live and the way you think doesn't bother me just don't try to change my life or my way of thinking" I see a lot of similarities between the two (once persecuted) groups

I wish I could vote for both, because homosexuality is natural, and I'm indifferent about it (I mean seriously, what do I care if someone is gay or not?).

Natural, naturally.

I wanted to vote both natural and indifferent also lol.
I have no problem with gay people what they do is up to them the only ones I do tend to get annoyed with are the over the top ones who feel the need to let everyone know that they are Gay every 3 minutes.

It might be natural for you? but i can assure you no one's going to be putting their willy up my bum

Some eat sh!t as well.

So you're denying we're animals as well? What a joke.

"Dont ask, don't tell".

I don't have a problem with it per-se.

What worries me is the current (in the UK) government agenda of pushing it as an "alternative lifestyle" to young kids (8 onwards) in schools. They appear to be encouraging it.

Homosexuality is an abberation. It's a genetic thing. There's nothing WRONG with it, per se, but at the same time we shouldnt' be encouraging it to 8-year olds as some sort of "social norm", which is what the government are currently doing.

In my badly-drawn orange opinion, homosexuals are homo sapiens... they should not be discriminated against, or marginalised. But at the same time, homosexuality should not be glorified either.

Meow Purr.

Eh? You can't "recruit" gays, that's a ridiculous idea. And of course kids should know that there is nothing wrong in being gay, which is not the same as "glorifying" it.

I'm not sure about about in the UK, but here in the US, homosexuals are highly victimized, and far from being glorified. They live a very difficult lifestyle.

I've posted this before but I'll re-issue this belief once again for the sake of this thread not regressing to potty humour and jest.

I'm saying we don't necessarily behave the same, i.e. we don't eat are babies

Natural.

Whats veil then?

'our'
and kinda.
we have resorted to cannibalism at times (or just because someone wants to, for w/e messed up reason)

Baby cow?

Yep, but that doesn't mean homosexuality is unnatural.

You said: "that we don't act like other animals i.e. we don't eat our babies."

We have.

I'm not sure what your saying, 'We've turned to cannibalism because there's no food available' so shagging men is ok because there's no women available?

I think it is natural. Although the argument from nature can be difficult because it depends how we define natural. If it is behaviour that has happened before well rape and war are pretty natural too but we generally don't condone those. So in those instances behaviour can be natural but we reject it also. If we decide natural is behaviour also displayed in other animals well then it sure is natural.

One of my uni subjects was called "Human Evolution and Sexuality" and the idea was floated by the lecturer that in a society it is beneficial to have a proportion of the species being homosexual.

Say if there are five female siblings which are all of childbearing age. In the longterm to produce more stable children it may be better for the family unit to have caring Aunts and Uncles to help raise the children. If there is one Aunt who does not have children they can help the others and provide more care to the kids.

In other animals some sisters appear to stay deliberately barren and assist in the childrearing.

So really if the family is more successfully raising children the tendancy to be gay won't be bred out of the human species any time soon.

But really I find people who are obsessed with other peoples sex lives in a hateful way rather perverse.

Personally, I'm indifferent. I don't care either way what other people do as long as they don't start preaching and trying to convert me.

I never denied we are an animal.

Again, it obviously isn't, but that doesn't mean that homosexuality is unnatural.

Again, you said that we don't act like other animals (adding, rather absurdly, "i.e. we don't eat our babies"). What I am saying is that all animals act differently, so you could say the same about any of them.

I think some people posting may be confused as to the exact context in which the term "Natural" is being used here......the original poll uses "Natural" as in a genetic occurance, not in the context as if your comfortable with it or not.

Where as, I'm assuming and correct me Ripley if i'm wrong, is Homosexuality something that is uncontrolable, does it take place in the womb.......the controversy being that if it is "Natural" in this context.....then how can religious people condem it?

I posted the question to see if religious belief was at all in some Atheist thinking about society. so far it's nay. but I wonder still. also to those who think a nal sex isn't natural , why do you think so ? Is this based on what other animals do ? Yet male chimps do .

and I found this interesting -

"In some species, straight sex is unusual; 64 per cent of female bonobo sexual interactions are same-sex."

http://www.knittingcircle.org.uk/zoology.html

but the bigger question still remains to those who think a nal sex is wrong -- what brings you to this conclusion? how do you think you came about believing it ? outside influence ? certainly if no one ever said it was wrong you wouldn't think it was. so did religious belief sway this stance ?

How much does religion affect the atheist without them knowing it ? that was the basis really of this poll.

Even if I did get Natural confused Then I still agree that it is a natural thing.

but why would people be uncomfortable with it ? that also lies behind my question ? what has taught them to think like that and why ? what is the original source for such thinking? that is what I'm looking to see. how religious belief has meshed itself with our very thought process.

again if you never were told to be uncomfortable you wouldn't be. That doesn't mean you'd be gay , that is attraction. but you wouldn't be put off either at the thought of it.

Now I'm not roaming into the thinking also of ' if you never were told murder is bad you could kill and have no problem doing so' although fight and flight is a normal response to danger --- I'm sticking to actions which with adults of consent happen.

how much is religious belief part of our daily thinking without us even being aware of it ?

Why should religious belief have anything to do with it? I'm british and the Brits have long had a reputation of being a bit prudish where sex is concerned. So wouldn't social background have just as much to do with people thinking that homosexuality is unnatural as a religious background?

The original source of such thinking stems on wether you are gay or not.

If your not gay then its hard to understand someone being attracted to the same sex. But just because one doesn't understand it, picture it, or is uncomfortable with it, one can still see through logic and scientific data that it is in fact a genetically natural occuring happening.

UNnless of course.....a preconcieved notion stemming from religious beliefs forces a person to ignore logic and fact, to adopt fallacy in attempts to uphold their religion.

Because religion affects society.

I think this stemmed more from people being embarrased about sex rather than any moral or religious significance towards it.

but why be embarrassed in the first place ? this is a great example of what I was fishing for.

it's so ingrain ( religious belief) that some don't even realize it.

I'm sure these are factors, ther are many factors that would stipulate how one feels about sexuality.

But in the context of this thread, it is the reasoning as per religious background or the lack there of that is being peered at.

Another factor that noone has mentioned, except seffy, is how comfortable someone is with their own sexuality. There are alot of cases where people lash out out gays, poke fun, or display hatred because they themselves are in fact gay but hide it.

hard to understand and uncomfortable are two very different things. we are curious by nature and something we are not is hard to understand , but it's the curiosity that drives us to understand.

difference doesn't drive being uncomfortable. fear of something makes us uncomfortable. a preconceived notion is exactly what drives uncomfortability.

for example , black and white children who know nothing of racism have no problem playing together. they may be curious to the difference but that isn't uncomfortability. it's only when they learn racism they become uncomfortable.

So in this instance, the children are clean slates with neither opinion or bias in this regard.

But you take anyone of those children and teach them racism and they may in fact become racist, teach them that playing with people that are different from them is wrong, and they will adopt this ideal as a truth.

So any indoctrination relayed at an impressionable age, or an impressionable time in ones life will be adopted as a truth.

Interesting point.

This is what happens with religion

Of course. Our frame of reference is often religious beliefs/practices even when we don't realize it. If someone asks me who is Jesus? My response (if I don't have my thinking cap on) may spontaneously be "The son of God". It is hard to break habits!

natural, anyone tells you otherwise, is just ignorant ...