I said why not what

And why should I believe Mr. Wiese not Omnaka ,you never answered ?

You can believe what you want to believe. Nobody is twisting your arm to believe anything.

I would still like to know what was so funny about the video?

Most of what it talked about were the horrible conditions of Hell. The torture and the screams of many.

Because Of free will, One can Blaspheme and Judge God , Hell and anything Created By God, judging with out knowing what the true purpose is.

After this life One will become Fully knowledgeable in everything, Everything you ever did in all the lives you have lived.
Full consciousness, If it turns out that God has loved you unconditionally through out all your lives, and Father is standing there with arms wide open, to give it to you, Do you think , Being fully conscious , that you will run in to Father's arms after stating what you just did?

Yes Father will forgive anything, but those who swear God will not Forgive them self, no matter how much God says he loves you , you will not believe , because of how you have sworn him, and will back away from Fathers love light till it is dark and you are with others who do not love God, Or others who actually do, but could not forgive themself.

One can be rescued from Hell by what we call a saint, who wears a cloak to keep out the screams and he will minister to you to help you understand that God forgives you but ultimatly, this belief resides with the individual spirit, and many will not come out. but it is possible.

What Im saying is it is not Gods doing but your own by playing this most dangerous Game of Cursing Father.
Especially after it was told to you that it is not God who puts you there , It is understandable that you do not believe me.

Iam not judging you, But Iam telling you the truth, Hell is made up of repentant spirits who cant be in God's love, by their own hand, in essence Made By man not God, God does not let it happen You do. God only gives you a place to do it, and after this world comes to a close , all will be loosed so to speak, but most will be reabsorbed back in to the firmament from which their eternal spirit was created. this is done out of love for thesuffering spirit which could not believe God loves him.

There are other worlds one may choose to go to also, an infinate # of worlds to choose from, but one must be accepted to these worlds by the God of that world.

Yes it is scarry but Know that hell is not forever. many will be transmuted To good There will be a pouring out of spirit from above, and Because reincarnation is true there is still time for many to start to learn to love , and stop getting over on his brother then blaming aall the bad on God, it is man doing this and Making Hell a reality for himself.

Love Omnaka

I agree I can't imagine going through such pain or having to know that others are enduring that amount of pain. I think the people who claim to have had a glimpse of hell are right in many ways and there are so many similarities that its dificult to just discount. It breaks my heart that someone would choose hell over living for God, I know thats just my beliefs and I am not taking a dim veiw of other religions just stating my opinion. Hell is eternal just as heaven is, So why would one even take the chance of everlasting torment, Always a pleasure

WWF it's not working. I know you mean well but my BDRS is working quite well

If you knew what I knew about the bible you would be laughing too.

If it were real I would have not laughed. It may be all too real in Mr. Wiese's head ,I know.

I'm sad & glad that you believe

You still never answered my questions ?

So you're suggesting the man is basically going around sharing a testimony that is very similar to that of other people who have experienced Hell? He's not making a profit off of it, and he's describing the same demons and conditions that others claimed to have experienced, and this is all a coincidence?

I'm sorry. Which questions didn't I answer?

My moms told me the same thing more then once! I tend to believe her more then anyone else!

I will say this if you believe in God & what the bible says then you should believe in Satan too you can't pick & choose what you want to.

Exactly norwood, God says satan does exsist and that we will be judged and the ones who denied him will be put in the lake of fire with satan, I do thik there is a hell. I don't know that its as we percieve it to be if we had no illustration what would w invision?
I have heard the same comment too, and yes wise to blieve mom Always a pleasure

Some people just believe hell is a sepration from God & nothing more.

True enough,to someone who believes in God that would be hell, But what does the person who does not believe in God see as hell. If they dont believe in God in the first place they are essentaily living in a world where God does not exsisit. So that can't be right can it? Always a pleasure

God turning out to be real and making me go to Heaven with him.



My idea of Heaven God telling me he wants nothing to do with me and just leaving me alone.

Those who have experienced Hell and returned always mention it as a place of torment and suffering.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5038135422824610779

Got to love it! Nothing like good old fashion fear to get people to convert! I do find it funny how he's describing the demons are being mutated like some kind of monster thats too funny! The ones that were cast out with Satan were other angels not some Sci-Fi creatures!

Because God is love, and Light, That is a big seperation.

You say that like its no big deal, " and nothing More"

Seperation from God down here is nothing More, or no big deal because there are Lovers of God here to share God's love wether one wants it or not, seperation in the spirit realm is not like that, the lovers of God do not hang with the dark, they hang in Gods light, it is a true seperation, and is very sad.

Love Omnaka

Did you notice a tone from my post? But your right it's no big deal to me he's not my God so I do not need to worry.

That is a very good point, the angels that were thrown out of heaven with satan were angels so did their form change when God threw them out? Any scriptures that adress this? Always a pleasure

I would say it's implied in some of the scriptures.

Luk 10:17 Then the seventy[fn5] returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Luk 10:19 "Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[fn6] rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

"Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather[fn6] rejoice because your names are written in heaven

THis to me says Not to judge those who believe diferently than you, or condemn them For God, by saying you will go to hell if you do not act like me.
I hear so many saying who does and who does not go to Heaven, And they rejoice in the "Bad" who will be Going to Hell, holding them selves above the criminal or drug addict or whatever, when they do not know enough about that person to judge, and rejoiceat their suffering , or wishfull suffering of this person, and in actuality it may be Society and those in society who have Made the one, who is being judged to hell by his brethren, the way he is, which will turn the tables On the one looking down on his brother.

Who are society?
We are.

Truly , Judge Not. It can be Very painfull lesson.

Love Omnaka

True, Let the first stone be thrown by one who has not sinned, We have no right telling someone else they will go to hell. Now I myself has just recently learned this, I have no understanding of a persons soul or his relationship with or without God. I always said the bible says if you don't believe in God and live thriugh him you will go to hell. I had no problem telling people they were going to be condemned to hell, But now I see thats judging them and not only do I have no right in doing that God tells us not to judge one another, Now I would really be offended if someone were to assume that I had no place in heaven and were condemned to hell, So I said well I am just wrong Its not my place nor anyones to say " You are going to hell ". I said before I didn't have a problem telling someone they were going to hell because thats what the bible says, But the binle aside it is very rude and insensitive to assume ones personal salvation, Thats just what I have learned and thought I would share < Always a pleasure

He has a published book, available to buy at Amazon.

Let me guess - he uses the money from the book to help fund his ministry, right?

His testimony is available for free.

I know he has a book. Are people not supposed to write books for some reason?

I was going to say I bought the book when it came out , Where did that go. I know he does have to make a living but to make it by using God is not really that respectable in my book, Always a pleasure

None that I see I don't agree with what WalkingWithFire posted demon does not mean they changed their form. Someone got the idea to use the Pagan God Pan & used his description to tell what Satan looked like.

So when God threw the angels along with satan from heaven they kept their angelic form? I have always wondered how satans image came about. I mean no one has ever seen satan so where did the monsterous image come from, Imagination ? Pagan? Always a pleasure

You call it Testimony...I call it a marketing Trailer...

or as the site you linked to says:

"This page contains just a Sermon given by Bill Wiese, it does not contain his actual Book. Purchase the Book, with the complete story at Amazon.com"

His full testimony is online. Have you listened to it?

“Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches.”
Jim Carrey

Oh my gosh I truly truly hate that, I would be in hell if I had to listen to that and "smacking". I have huge issues with these things . Always a pleasure

Rebel against god?
Doesn't your faith believe in something called "free will"?
If your oh so loving god grants us free will, and we choose option B, how is that rebelling?


To be honest, I agree will LT Ripley: any holy book, ANY set of rules limits god. By saying "god wants this" or "god doesn't want that", you set limits on a supposedly limitless being.
I;ve heard believers state that while the bible may have been altered, while men may be fickle and change, god is constant and unchanging.
That in itself limits what god is. From omnipotent being, to static fixture. He cannot change, cannot bend, can not alter in any shape way or form.

And, I cannot reconcile the statement "all loving god" with the concept of hell, rebellion, and punishment.

Can anyone explain HOW in any way shape or form, a race of near hairless apes can offend/insult/inconvenience, or otherwise injure such a being as >god<?
Thats like a human being offended/insulted/inconvenienced or otherwise injured by the actions of ants.

Personally, I think that all this is a human ego trip. "We are soooooo special that god created the universe just for us so that he can come again and wipe us all out. Isn't that just great? "

I agree it is just one of those things to make us seem like we are important and special.

I guess many do not wish to be just normal and boring they have to feel like they are part of some grand scheme of things.

Hi jmpd, How was your day? I don't think God can be offended and I get your and ripleys point of containing God. The bible says Godmade us in his own image so If thats true then God should have some kind of emotion? I don;t really know I would like to think that God is so perfect that emotions would not make him different in any way. I thought I knew all about God and his word in the bible. I have never heard God questioined and I have never questioned God , When I joined Here I have had alot of questions about things I "knew" about God my entire life, I don't know that its a good thng but I certainly have a more open mind than before, Not that my beliefs have changed just raised some questions, Always a pleasure

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "freely do whatever you want".

Now ain't that special ?!

So you disallow the concept of Free Will, WWF?

There are over 550 billion documents on the WWW. Contrary to popular opinion, I haven't read, viewed or listened to all of them.

As I believe that there is absolutely no historical evidence that Jesus even existed, listening to someone talk about their other-worldly experience of a place that, imo, is a purely Christian construct designed solely to create belief via fear of eternal damnation, it's pretty low down my list of documents to examine.

What scriptures are you using to suggest that all will is free?

This is Hell ! Only up from here in my opinion .

Do you disallow the concept of free will?

Yes, or no please.

uhhhh do you mean "here" as in the U-M Spirituality, Religion & Beliefs forum?
Or "here" as the planet Earth?

Sometimes its hard to tell......

The Bible is historical and Jesus is mentioned numerous times throughout 26 of its books.

Anyway, it sounds like you've already made up your mind about Hell.

Oh Jmpd are you tiring of all of us here, But we love you, Always a pleasure

I don't believe that all will is free or that we are given a license to do whatever we choose without consequence.

I personally don't believe in free will. I believe we have the illusion of it so we can lead human lives.

but the 'reality' so to speak in a spiritual sense is that our lives are paths we/God has laid before birth. every single second of it. spiritual beings having a human experience.

Life , nothing more than about the experience.

everything happens for a reason. one life affects anothers even if your unaware of it.


I think of it like a puzzle and we're each a peice. or an orchestra and each a note .


if one believes in the bible it states God made all for Gods purpose - the light and the dark , the good and the evil. So knowing this there is no sin since it's part of Gods plan. all for a reason. humanly I can't understand it , but I don't have to. whew.

All I have to do trust.

Hell on Earth yes, if we fail we do it again reincarnate, past lives etc.

We all have an angelic and a devilish side to us .

The earliest gospel was written over 70 years after Jesus allegedly lived. Not a single contemporary historian ever mentioned him. Nor any official document, census, execution order or otherwise.

Not a single historian even mentions Nazareth, Jesus' alleged birthplace prior to the Gospels. No census, no map. Nada.

You're right though. I have pretty much made my mind up about Hell.

I know through my faith that the bible is God's word and have done my share to try and defend it, I never even knew to question it before I joined UM, And I thought I was somehow disappointing God to doubt the word. But I have come to realize that some people see it as just another history book that can't be proven. defend it and Jesus and I take some hits for it, But ones mind is always learning and changing. We can't simply give up because we will prevail when Jesus does come and then all the ones who needed proof will have it. I have no idea when but Jesus will come and we know that to be true fro the bible we believe in and defend, Always a pleasure

You really think so.....I DO BWAhaha

Not sure where you're getting your information. Luke was a physician and a historian. He wrote his gospel around A.D. 60.