what's up. i just got done watching glenn beck and his guest on the show was Penn Jillette (from pen and teller). they were talking about things, mostly religion, and they joked around and stuff it was a pretty good show. but at the very end pen said something that just sounded plain hateful. glenn said "pen i heard you don't let any religious people in your home, is this true? if so why?" i was thinking that's not true that's a rumor or something.and suprisingly he said yes, it's true. he said he doesn't agree with anybody believing in god so he doesn't want anybody who does in his house, he also said he doesn't want his kids around a religious person. what????

i know it's his home and he can choose who he wants in it or not,but not letting somebody in your house because they believe in god? to me that's the same as not wanting somebody in your house because they are black or because they are gay. what does he ask people if they are atheist or not before they come in and if not he tells them to leave? and also i thought atheist say that unlike religious parents they don't force their kids to believe as they do, they let them choose for themselfs. but he seems to want his kids to believe as he does and he it seems he's forcing them saying "i don't want that around my children". what, because they are religious they are going to come in and do nothing but preach god?

basicly what i'm asking is do any atheist out there think it's dumb as hell that he thinks this or do you possibly agree with this? i wouldn't refuse somebody in my house for any reason (besides being a child molester or rapist or something) but tell somebody to leave becaue they're atheist, i would never. hey pen i got something to say about that......THAT'S BULL SH*T!!!

I guess it's like christians that don't like or allow the' godless' in their homes ......... same coin different side .

It's completely different... There are a million and 1 ways to justify his logic.

Penn has actually written a very good essay in this regard....i understand how the comments you've cited sound so indecent. not sure what he was thinking , but take a read at some of the things he has written.

There is no doubt that Penn is very passionate about his belief that there is no God.

Penn's Essay

Basically Penn is a true advocate of the scientific method , and has stated before that people should use it to help them make a decision about faith.

Penn says:

So the OP is indignant that a person decides who or who may not enter his private dwelling?
As a homeowner, I can deny access to any individual, for any reason.
Mr Jillette was merely stating his reason for doing so.
I may not agree with his methodolgy, but I certainly support his right to to do.

While I probably wouldn't be so stringent in a normal case if somebody started preaching to my kid I'd certainly tell them to get lost. It is not at all the same as kicking somebody out because their some race or because they are gay. Religion is a choice.

Also, there is no atheist doctrine or creed that atheists follow so you really shouldn't say "and also i thought atheist say that unlike religious parents they don't force their kids to believe as they do, they let them choose for themselfs." That's just a personal parenting choice. To me it all depends on the kids age and thus how impressionable they are.

It's different than that, being black or gay isn't an opinion or a choice, being christian is. If your opinion on theological matters is that there is a great dictator in the sky who kills and creates at will and anyone who doesn't believe in him will be tortured for all eternity and the only way to save yourself is to believe in a character who is only referred to in second hand accounts who turned water to wine and caused all the graves of jerusalem to open up when he was ressurected, then a person has a right to keep you out of his house.

I'm might not agree with him but its his house. He can do whatever the "hell" he wants.

Yeah I think it's dumb but I guess it is his house and he is allowed to that if he wished. I have people from the church near mine come weekly and try to convert me, sometimes I let them in so they can have their chat and to also let them come out of the rain and have a nice warm drink, and other times I wont let them in at all because sometimes I am not in the mood or I am doing something important, or because sometimes they can get nasty when I refuse to believe their is a God.

Several times friends' parents forbade me to enter their homes because my parents were staunch atheists. Guess they were afraid I'd eat their hearts or something.

Anyway, like people have said - it's his right to prevent anyone he wishes to enter his house. Good thing he doesn't prevent the pompous...else he'd be homeless.

Well it's his house, so let him do what he wants. And as it's been said, believing in god is a choice, unlike race or sexuality.

Kids are pretty easy to convince about religion, so I guess he sees it fit to wait until the kid develops his own thinking skills before they sink their claws into his mushy, young brain.

Mad Manfred


LOL....thats good stuff!!

I do think you have the right to be comfortable in your own home. There's some measure of tolerance to be expected but when dealing with them, it's hard to know what they believe and still think of them decent human beings at the same time no matter how they act or talk. I flip through the bible or something for a source quick or to find out the meaning to someone's post... I find it hard to see anybody in the same light really again when I read they worship a being they believe murdered in cold blood a little baby... Stomps through the ages killing as she dances on their dead corpses.... Preaches to murder my family and I... Having people murdered for displeasing you... Human sacrifices of young girls... Cutting the hearts out of the enemy and slaves for some being. Just willfully ignore those facts and move on?

You don't lose your human behavior or feelings when you choose to be an atheist... Contrary to what major mythology preaches. It's a matter of his own ethics and how he chooses to act in this world in response to good and evil. Our own morality 'laws' are there for us all.

Kratos kratos kratos....

I agree, though, you have a right to have who ever you do and don't want in your home.

I threw a friend out of my house when I found out he was smoking pot in my back bathroom while my kid was in the house, he wasn't allowed back.

But, had he left his pot at HIS house, I'd have had no problem with him.

I pretty much dont' care who comes into my home as long as they abide by a few rules. No drugs, no violence, no firearms, no stealing... why would I bar someone from my house based on their beliefs? I wouldn't.

Well of course it is his own home, blahdy blah blah blah, but I find his behaviour rather offensive. Everyone has mistaken beliefs about existence, even perhaps (perish the thought) myself. Does he let in family members who are religious I wonder?

But then perhaps it is because I see everyone as a potential atheist

It is his choice, I am sure there are many people who won't let me in their house because I am a Pagan. If someone feels that way I don't want to go in their house anyway. If someone comes into my house to convert me I am sure I would show them to the door.

and what do you believe in besides wwf wrestling?...he has a right to keep anyone out of his house period...not everyone has your twisted view of christianity fish..some believe in a new heaven and a new earth....

It is his house, of course. But I would only want a religious person out of my house if they tried to convert me, or were doing something else unnacceptable (stealing, drugs, etc.)
Not wanting your kids near religious people is very understandable, however. Children are VERY easy to convert, and if I had kids, I wouldn't want them hanging around people who would try to get them to believe in fairy tales.

I watched the program too. Here is the transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/27/gb.01.html

Excerpt: JILLETTE: Yes, so Hitchens wanted to come over and watch "The Aristocrats" and bring some liquor with him. And I just said, no, leave it outside, man. Just don`t do that. And he goes, "Oh, I don`t want to offend your religion," you know, and turned it into that whole thing.

I used that -- if you want a real, honest answer, and nothing flippant, I use that as an example of how much I believe in freedom with personal responsibility, which is I`m very willing to go into the world around people who drink, and who smoke dope, and who do all sorts of things I won`t do. I don`t even gamble, you know? I`m the same as you, except for, you know, that little God thing.

And my example was it`s exactly the same with religion. You know, I don`t want my kids exposed...

BECK: I would have you at my house, but you wouldn`t have...

JILLETTE: Do you have people over at your house who drink?

BECK: No. Well, yes, yes, yes, I do. Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

JILLETTE: Well, I may have to change that. You know, I now have -- I now have a family, and that changes everything. If my daughter wants to bring home a friend who`s religious or, as we go on, I suppose, smokes dope, I no longer have the right to do that. It was who I wanted to surround myself by.

I used that as an example, not as a rule that you couldn`t come to my house, but rather, when people talked to me about stuff, to tell them you can believe in people`s rights outside of your house and still have rules within your house. It was an example of that. What I`m saying is, if you dislike pornography, don`t have it in your house.
________________________

Sometimes people want to read into something that isn't there. You took offense where none was intended, imo. Jillette has a standard and won't be a hypocrite. Too bad the world doesn't have more like him...

everybody says it's his house he can have who he wants in or not. i agree with this, it's america a free country you can choose who you want or your property and you can choose to hate anybody you want. but to me it looks like he hates the religious. he's one of those passive haters, he's nice about it but inside he boils with hate. if he said i don't allow black people in my house people would have went crazy, picket signs protesting and everything. but he's a hero for this?being religious is a choice, so if people hate them it's okay? having an abortion is a choice as well, so i guess it's fine if i want to hate the women who have them? what if penns house was on fire and his kids were trapped, he won't allow any religious fire men to save them, let them die? now who looks bad god or penn. couldn't be god.....because he's not real......

when penn said it he said it very fast and passively in order not to offend on national t.v, it didn't offend me, i care less who some dude has in his house or not. i was just asking atheist what they thought of this. pornography and alcohol is on thing, we're talking human beings here, he seems to think just the presents of a religious person in his home will poison his house a children.....i don't agree with atheism, but if i refused a person due to this people would go crazy calling me a just another hateful christian but an atheist does this and he's allowed?

My rule is people that have imaginary friends are allowed in my house but...........(I always have a big butt)

........they must leave their imaginary friend in the dog (god) house.

And I agree race,ethnicity,sex is not a choice.

But what you believe is a choice. You let yourself get seduced into other people's fantasies,hopes & fears.

Whether you are aware of it or not.

Ok , I have tolerated some very special friends to pray at their own dinner table. Just kidding


I have some very special christian friends that can almost do anything they want in my house,actually.

But convert me no !!

Personally, I think baring someone from your house because of what they "think" is cowardly.

I have a friend who's a guns and ammo freak... because I'm not a coward, I tell him to leave his guns and ammo at home and I'm not interested in guns and ammo talk... check it all at the door brother, and please come in and make yourself at home.

I think Penn's a coward.

I don't like barriers.

Would only would have a barrier against people that would harm me .

Must admit I can't tolerate people that constantly have god on their mind and put god into every other sentence.

Also "it's god's will" STATED AS FACT after something terrible has happened.

I will punch them out and say"see,now that was god's will " (just to prove you right) (YA KNOW i WAS JOKING AGAIN,RIGHT ?)

I agree with those who suggest he has the right to deny anyone access to his private property but I find his reasons for doing so to be an overreaction - especially his statement (if true) that he doesn't want his children around religious people. This sounds like an apology for intolerance to me.

I think he's just protecting his children. He goes on to say that once they get older his view on this would change.

cap,

I do think this excuse is weak. His children would no doubt be exposed to religion and religious people outside the family home.

News Flash...

Kids exposed to everything who aren't overprotected tend to turn out a little less neurotic in the end. But I guess only open minded people are capable of seeing and understanding that.

Kids aren't THAT impressionable.. people always make them out to be so weak and malleable. They aren't.

Oh, obviously, I get that. I think it's, to him, more a matter of what is implied to supported by what you allow in your home. I agree that it's overly-militant though.



LOL. Obviously you haven't seen Jesus Camp, MMW. Seriously though I agree such an absolute stance is foolish but if you read the whole transcript he's not being as absolute as the first snippet implies. He's referring to somebody who would preaching constantly more than anything. For me personally, it would also be a matter of degree. I have religious relatives and of course I would never ban them from my house but if they constantly tried to convert my children then I would consider it. The same way I would consider it if anybody kept pushing a view on my children that I find offensive or disagreable such as a homophobe or a racist.

It's an oversimplified version of the religion, yes. But you see how people could actually not want these ideas in their childrens heads?

That's exactly what Penn is doing, but only with ideas which he see's as dangerous.

Then we're more or less in agreement. (and yes, I've seen Jesus Camp)

I suppose I wouldn't let a raving anyone in my house, unless they could check it at the door. But I'm a big girl, if they overstep, I can ask them to leave.

And how many "constant preachers" does Penn meet? Almost none? How many times has someone tried to convert his kids? What's his idea of conversion? Gimmee a break.

When my kid was young, she spent a lot of time overseas, one of the places she lives was in the south pacific, she was about 14. This island is known for it's Bible Thumping Pentacostal ministers (they're nutty to say the least!) it was a great experience in patience, tolerance and growing a refined sense of humor. She also spent a great deal of time in the care of a traditional Shinto woman in Japan. She lived in an ashrahm in India for 4 months. She was "come at" pretty hard by all those different beliefs. It well-rounded her, it didn't ruin her.

Like I said, Penn's a coward.

I am very secure with my kids being exposed to christianity. They are science addicts and have been raised not to believe everything they are told (esp.from me<< LOL) unless evidence is provided,but realising that we as humans beings don't have all the answers . (this also applies to the media also) But that we are working on getting the answers.



We watch the GOD channel for entertainment and I'm not kidding.

Jesus caught some flak for eating at a sinners home...as a bleiever why would i shut them out?

randomhit10

The compulsion for religion might be so great in some individuals they might not have a choice?

After reading the transcript that graylady2 supplied, you can see exactly what Penn was saying. He isn't saying that he prevents people with a belief in god from entering into his house!!!!

What he is saying is that he can see how religion can be just a harmful influence on his children as....alcohol, drugs or gambling. He would keep those influences away from his children so why would a religious influence be any different.

He said "Yes, so Hitchens wanted to come over and watch "The Aristocrats" and bring some liquor with him. And I just said, no, leave it outside, man. Just don`t do that. "

LEAVE IT OUTSIDE......is the point here. I see nothing in Penn's actual words that allude to idea that alot of the comments so far in this thread are pointing to.

Penn doesn't want his children exposed to that influence. If a person of faith was in his house , there is no way that his children would be influenced by that presence unles the person started preaching, witnessing or made a point to exert their religious beliefs on the children......If they leave the stuff "outside", then everything is cool and the gang!!!

Lets look at the flip side of this though because it works both ways.

Alot of religious families go out of their way to prevent any secular type influence to their children or themselves. This is done through home-schooling, keeping the children and themselves within the church community and only in that community.

A secular influence , or contact with in alot of cases is not only frowned upon but secular people are treated as Lepers.

For it is written as such, and biblical literalists take this stuff seriously:

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed"
2 John 1:10

"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."1 Corinthians 15:33

"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage"II Peter 2:19

The mans an idiot, his 'belief' in atheism is so weak he feels his family might get converted?

some of the people excluded from his house,

Mother Teresa.
Martin Luther King.
Mahatma Gandhi.
Dalai Lama.

i agree with that. all penn has to say is, hey just so you know i don't allow any talk of god in my house, that's all he has to say. if somebody tries to come in and convert his family than he has a reason to be upset. i know plenty of people who are dope heads, but they know that they don't bring any of that crap near my house when they come, because yes i feel drugs are dangerious and wrong. but i don't say hey i know you get high so don't come around here that's dumb.

I never worried about my kid being converted by anyone... I raised her to say "back off" when someone gets out of control or crosses a boundry. I think that's the preferable way to raise your kids--not sheltering them.

Of course if Penn invited me to his house, I would assume my views on God wouldn't be welcome in his house and would avoid that subject. At the same time, I'd expect him to be a good host and refrain from beating me up with his beliefs.

It's called being civilized.

He isn't saying or doing that.....read the transcript, that graylady2 provided!!........AAAARRRRGGG!!

I'm not sure he'd want Mother Teresa or the Dalai Lama anyway, one was a greedy sadist, and the other was not unlike a dictator. MJK jr and Gandhi, sure, but he didn't say anything about not making exceptions. On the plus side, some of the people excluded from his house would be Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Fred Phelps.

You see, it's understandable to feel threatened by Christianity, because it doesn't win people over on the intellectual level, it's all bribes and threats, which children fall for more often tha adults.

i read the transcript and watched the show twice incase i misunder stood the first time. to me it sounded like he was just trying to ansewer around the question. basicly he said he is willing to go out into the world with relgious people but not have them in his home, that is basicly what he said. he used alcohal and hitchens as an example but i think that he dug himself into a bigger hole. he said he tells people to leave the acahol and drugs outside away from his house, but seems to refuse to have any religious person in his house even if they are saying hi for 5 minutes and they are not going to say one word about god (which is leaving god out of his house). the guy has a phobia for religious people.

The list is just an example to show how ridiculous his statement was, "The 14th Dalai Lama" is a dictator? please explain. the worse of the bunch was Gandhi, racist & pedophile, well he claimed they were all sixteen years of age. but many dispute that.





He didn't say he would, so you have to assume he wouldn't unless he says otherwise






Why do you single out Christians? the OP said religious.



You must have very different Christians in your country compared to Europe, i can't say I've ever been threatened by a christian, i did once have a Jehovah Witness refuse to let me take his last watch tower mag, but hey i worked through it, i do have flash backs but that's life.

You know that they won't. Those that think Penn is a "religion-hating-atheist" have already made up their minds. You don't want to confuse them with facts, now do you?

lol.....I know but I think there's a good conversation to be had here minus the misconceptions.

Here is what I call BS....Anyone dictating to me as a homeowner - who I SHOULD or shouldn't allow into my home...

As a homeowner..you hold the right to say who should come and go...END OF!!!!!!!!

I agree with Lt_Ripley - same coin...different side...AMEN TO THAT!!

True..I wouldnt let you into my house either..because im now a bigot and no pagans allowed LOL <---SO kidding with you...

Christians have turned anyone who was godless away and they hold the right to do it, cuz it's THEIR HOME...

So why is it DUMB for an atheist?? I think he holds a right to say who can get in or not


How many here let pushy JW over their door??

How many here would let in a pushy in your face sale rep??


How many here like their privacy and believe there is a time and a PLACE for talking religion??


How MANY of you believe if it is your PRIVATE and PERSONAL space..you hold the right to say who goes where???


Godofcats...dude, if you would allow any tom dick or harry into your home...thats your business...but dont look down on anyone that likes their OWN comfort zone and privacy ...its high time you took off your biased glasses and showed respect for EVERYONES RIGHTS not just the christians...okaaaayy!!!

Fun little story.

When I was a kid an old woman ran a camp in her backyard.

Me and my friends in the neightbourhood (we were ages ranging from 7-11) would go to her house to play pool, drink OJ and whatnot. Towards the afternoon these 2 young people would come over and tell us stories. They had flashcards with pictures and fancy voices they would read with.

Afterwords we got a oatmeal cookie.

I didn't know then but those were stories from the bible. I guess it makes sense now seeing as how we all gathered before we left and were told to "pray" (I didn't know how to, so i just closed my eyes and nibbled on the oatmeal cookie)...

I was like 7-8.

KIDS AREN"T THAT IMPRESSIONABLE.

Kids are the easiest target to feed religion to..only because they are naive and being naive is all part of being a kid...

I never understood this whole praying malarky as a lil child..but to shut my dad up for 20 mins or so until the rosary was said..I closed my eyes and pretended to go along with the praying..when in reality I was chanting a nursery rhyme into myself LMAO and waited till it was over so I could go out and play again...I had no clue what it was all about and frankly I didn't give a hoot either..i was a just a child...and as far as I was concerned playing was more important!!!

exactly . I don't care what you believe or don't believe but in my house my views rule. Unless you want my boot to meet your rear.

unless I'm looking for a debate. Then again I can't even say that because Gran up stairs is filled with holy knick knacks - there is even a Mary down here. It doesn't bother me in the least. But I don't tell her what to believe and she has never told me ( and she'll be 92 in February. !) Let's just say , even for my grandmother who refuses to answer the door to JW"s) preaching is rude when it hasn't been asked for.

But I don't ask people what they believe before coming into my home. I wouldn't want my home disrupted by a preachy political loud lesbian either. you can only take so much militancy before your like ' ok I wonder what's on TV tonight.'


I should put up a sign that says all 'strong views left at the doorstep unless a pot of coffee and a deck of cards is out.'