Ok, to start. I am 17 years old so dont be harsh.

Im going to tell you about some sings shown in the apocalypse the me and some friens have been reeding for nearly a year.
I dont have a bible near me so I wont be precise. Sorry.
first of all... in the second beast part, it speaks of a marking on either the hand or the head that the beast will force to people. It will be used to buy and sell.
I have learned about a chip that was created to replace the credit card that was inserted in the hand. it was supose to be done for 2010, but think about it.
theirs about wat? over 6 ''milliards­'' ( srry i am french) people in the world? It wont be on the market for a long time but still.
My friend found something about the empires. Can't remember wat it was but it really maked sense.


my email is yoyoble@hotmail.com
please, i mean please, send me anything that could help us.
ill try to updapte as soon as i can... ill put every findings.

and yes i like the ''...'' dont ask.

Try looking up historicist.com or historicism.com Don't be so quick to believe all the hype. Broaden your horizons. Check every interpretation out, look up eschatology.

ty

its really something that interest me.

Yup. I take the historicist interpretation method over the dispensationalist view. Interpretors today are making it all sound like a comic book. The one true thing about Revelation is that it is coded, and the only key is the Old Testament. Do some research on all the views, and pick the least speculative view.

people have been claiming they know when the 'Apocalypse/end times' has been coming since before Jesus and since then. none has been right.

the only apocalypse is the self fullilling prophesy we allow to happen.

I agree I think that there is a worrying amount of people who wish and hope for some sort of apocalypse to happen, and who would not attempt to lift a finger to help people prevent it.

exactly. some are so obsessed with the idea that it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. aka Bushco in the middle east is the latest and with his God told me so delusional thinking ................

What annoys me is that we are all going to die in the end anyway so I don't see why people who want a apocalypse are in such a hurry for one to come around. I know some religions teach patience is virtue and stuff like that but funnily enough I guess that is forgotten when it comes to the apocalypses.

I really don't want it to come around but if one does at least I know that there will be those of us who will pull together to survive and carry on, while there will be others going WOO HOO the apocalypse and end up getting killed, because they did not want to do a thing to help. And I can bet that if we did survive the apocalypse those who did nothing to help and still manged to survive will want to all of a sudden know us again lol.


But lets hope there is not a doomsday and just try on focusing on making the world a better place for future generations.

And since people have proclaimed the coming kingdom, skeptics have critisized it, all for their self fulfilling reasons as well. 1,700 years have passed and the arguments still haven't changed.

Its apparent that many have been blinded. Why else would people want the end to come? Because its not the end for them, but the beginning of true and righteous life. Those who care nothing for it won't take part in it. Simple as that. People who do not want to reexamine their value system because either it takes the focus off of them or because it seems to complicate their lives more only criticize the 'end.' Whats funny is that people tend to make up their own exaggeration of what the end is: The end of humanity The end of the world as we know it The end of all things. No, its the end of the wicked oppression, money system, selfish and murderous greed, hunger, pain, tears, suffering, indifference to injustice, and injustice itself. Some do care for these things because it benefits them more in this life to carry on stealing, murdering, lieing, profiteering, storing up weath, and being unjust. And then they die and leave it all behind them, and the suffering still continues.

I have a question for you. What kind of end do you believe is coming? If you are discussing the end discussed in the Bible, then how can you evade the Almighty God? Like a cube can see inside of a square, God can search out your heart (i.e. You desires, motives, ect.)

However, you are right and wrong regarding those who anticipate the end. They don't help because they don't show enough love to the poor, oppressed, and afflicted. However they are right in the aspect that if you do not have Christ, then it won't matter where you run, you won't escape it. Sounds alot like death, huh? You can run and run, but you will still die, whether you get old or get in a car accident, you will die somehow. In Christ, we have already died, to ourselves, and rose again with and in Him, assuring our salvation. However, the works of Christ did not stop once He rose again, and neither should ours!

and the horses aren't eating each other

Also, the problem to be fixed is not how much better we act, or how much longer and healthier we live. The problem to be fixed is our values. You can't expect that a nation full of kings will all asudden drop everything when the end starts happening and start working together. We as a majority of people don't value one country, one value, and one cause because we are all too selfish for that. Why? Because since God is taken out of the picture, the only thing to serve now is ourselves. Serving a flawed mankind (by man's fault, not God's) will only create more flaws. And thus there is no end to problems because we look within ourselves to fix it. I will admit, as a kid, that looking within myself and believing in myself to do anything sounded quite motivating, but its all hogwarsh. Looking within myself is not going to fix this country's problems or the problems of the world. Only if I am lucky and in the right circumstances will it even fix my own problems. The cliches are losing inertia. This country as a majority has split up into so many different value systems that it has lost the strength and value to hold it together whenever that end does come. By dropping God out of our lives, we have also dropped our protection from our enemies.

Here is a little thing I posted a while back in response to a "2012-end of the world" thread.

Christ said that none would know and most would be caught off guard. Sounds like now! The time will come when the Father decides it will. Its up to no man to say.

A brief history of the apocolypse

I post this website every single time a thread like this pops up, just to show how many people "knew" when the world would end

.....IMO Christ is not coming back, I read somewhere that he was supposed to return in the year his disciples still lived, and that obviously didn't happen so...I think the end of the world will either be us killing ourselves, or the sun.

You mean that you like the way things are happening? You want this to continue? Don't be fooled or naive. Just because life isn't so bad for you, it doesn't mean that others have it as good. They havn't exactly been handed the best hand to play with in life and wouldn't disapprove of having a better one. So I can understand why some may want Christ to return. Some amy like having orgies and buying products sold at 200% the price they were made and paid for, while some wish for better.

from a christian viewpoint- no one knows exactly when it will occur. we are given things to look for, so we know it is getting close to time, but not what that time is.
we are told that there would be wars, floods, famine, drought, earthquakes, and other natural disasters in different places, but they did not mark the end. they were all things that had to come and are called the begining of sorrows.
in other words, things are going to get bad, alot of suffering will occur, but it does not mean the end is close. things will get much much worse before the end comes.
Jesus said to watch for the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by daniel, this is after the temple is rebuilt, the antichrist will stop the sacrafices.
there are many other signs to look for both in daniel and revelation, but when the above happens, we will no that the end is very close, at this point the judgements of God spoken of in revelation will begin to be poured out. after each one, it mentions that rather than turn to GOD for forgiveness of offences, the people cursed him, giving the impression that if they did turn from thier evil ways, and ask for forgiveness, then it would all stop.

after this, the Wrath of God is poured out, the judgements are a way of God giving yet another chance, but after they have all been carried out, then it is too late, and the wrath of God comes down.

and for the record- the battle of armagedon does not take place till after the 1000 year reign of christ on earth, and has nothing to do with the antichrist.

Doesn't it disturb you that God put all this here just to ruin it when jesus comes back?

And they never will, I went to a website that had religious debates like we do here, A friend told me it was very aggressive forum and the members are really mean and nasty to people who believe in God and the biblical end of times. So I said well I am going to see what its like, I never thought that it would be "aggressive and members nasty to people like me who know That God exsist and will not be convienced otherwise. I have been here at UM a month and while I got upset at something here I have ALWAYS been treated with respect, and decency. I went into a forum about the rapure and I was just attacked by the members there like a pack of wild rabid dogs. I was so mad, I asked how can you be soooo rude to me you have yet to know what kind of person I am, The reply was the rapture is a man made tale that will never come true and If you believe in God and KNoW that he exsit then we want proof, you are in a skeptics forum they said( I wasn't ) What did you expct that you could walltz in here and tell us the rapture and tribulation and the so called apocalypse is as real as God but you come without proof. I got so very angry I can no more prove God s exsistence than they can disprove it. But I was the one required to have proof, I will stay here at UM where members are respected and treated with comman decency, Always a pleasure.

Just because some people might not be having a nice time does not mean that a apocalypse should come and wipe everyone out because someone is not very happy with life.

I don't have the perfect life but I make the best of it I can, I don't wish all doom and gloom and suffering on people just because I am having a crappy time, I don't wish or pray for something to come along and wipe us all out.

I am interested just like any other person religious or not, people will see the rapture and tribulation and the apocaqlypse. It is clearly documented in the bible, Just because humans who do err haven't pinned down the date does not mean it won't occur, The bible says NO ONE will know when it will occur but our Lord and he will come like a thief in the night. There are so many things that we as humans 'THINK" we know, But we haven't a clue. God made us and therefore he knows that we will attempt to learn all there is to know and he also knew that we would make mistakes. I can think of so many things that we as the human race thought was the honest to God truth only to find out we were wrong later, And this will be another one of those times. Skeptics will say it will never occur and that we christians have been wrong so many times that , That stands as proof that its a hoax. See we make our ownselves less credible when we try and find out things that God has NO intention of telling us or letting us learn/know. I for one pray that if God comes in my time I am ready and waiting for him, Always a pleasure.

Soooo it is better for god to erase it all than for man to help his fellow man?


You mean those self-pitying people who do not understand that they are responsible for their own misery?




Orgies? No one told me about any orgies! Where is my invite???????
As to products being sold for much more than they are worth, I agree with this. Now, all we have to do is convince everyone that a little profit per item is ok. From the guy mining or harvesting the raw materials to the schlub on the assembly line. Not to mention the trucker hauling the stuff and the guy selling you the gas to do so.
Of course, that means EVERYONE will have to step down their desires.

You say you don't wish for doom and gloom and suffering and yet you say these events are not going to occcur. Someone could pray to invite these events all they please, But It is not up to us when its God's will that will bring on these things and we will not know when. I don't think that someone who knows God and lives by his word would pray for such a thing to happen, They know it will when God is ready But to pray for It to happen is not something that Someone who trusts God would do because you would be putting awful things to come on those left behind that refused God. I would not wish that on my worse enemy, It will be unlivable on earth.Always a pleasure

Hey Lt . Take it easy .. the kid is only 17 .. and he's french !

I am sorry I don't follow politics can you give the short version of Bush's God tod me......... Always a pleasure.

On the day Reagan became president I was flying to Hawaii. There was a lunar eclipse, although it wasn't visible because of all the cloud cover. It was a dark, eerie day.

Throughout the Reagan years my friends and I would talk, from time to time, about Reagan being the antichrist. After all, he had 666 in his name and his press secretary got shot through the head and somehow survived, which is right out of the book of Revelation. We didn't take it too seriously, and as the Reagan years ended it became foolish to talk about him being the antichrist. I forgot about it all.

Sometime after 9/11, George W. Bush gave a speech in which he said he would destroy all evil. It was as if George W Bush was proclaiming himself God. The war in Afghanistan was actually named “Operation Infinite Justice” until the Muslims complained saying that only God can execute infinite justice. Bush started to look like he could be the antichrist, but we've been down that road too many times. Christians have been seeing the antichrist and believing the end was near throughout every generation from the time Christ walked the Earth. Even the apostles of Christ thought the end was near as they pointed out what they believe was fulfillment of prophecy. One prophecy the apostles were most mindful of said that a false version of Christianity would appear in the end times.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The apostle John observed false teachers in his day, and he believed they were the fulfillment of that particular prophecy, and he introduced the term "antichrist" to refer to what he saw as false Christian movements.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Clearly, John was wrong in his interpretation of the prophecy, but that does not mean that the prophecy itself was wrong. Christ described a false version of Christianity that would appear in the end times whose followers seemed to believe they were doing God a favor, or doing things for the benefit of God. This has never been a common attitude in Christianity, and it wasn't likely an attitude of those John saw as fulfilling the prophecy. Even during the witch hunts of the medieval period, Christians tended to believe they were doing the witch a favor by burning her alive so the demon would leave her body before she died assuring her of eternal paradise. Sometimes Christians might have been motivated by a belief that they were executing the Law of God, but without any sense that they were doing God a favor. They believed they were doing what God wanted them to do, not what God needed them to do.

It is modern evangelicalism or the “born again” movement that fulfills the prophecy more than any Christian movement over the past two thousand years. Evangelicals will talk of having a partnership with God, and a personal relationship with the Lord, both of which imply a more equal relationship between God and humans than Christianity has traditionally held. Their doctrine places great emphasis on converting others to evangelicalism. In the past missionaries who tried to convert the heathen would tend to believe they were doing the heathen a favor, not doing God a favor. Evangelicals not only believe that nonbelievers are going to hell, they believe that God does not want the nonbelievers to go to hell, yet God must respect our "free will" and the "free will" of heathens; and therefore God can not or will not bring salvation to the heathen Himself although it would be easy for Him to do so. God wants the heathen to come to Him on their own, and this means that God needs, not just wants, God needs all believers to testify to the nonbelievers and attempt to convert the nonbelievers to evangelical Christianity. This need that God has for us to testify to nonbelievers is fundamental to evangelicalism. The word evangelize means to convert others to Christianity.

The evangelical movement is relatively new, which is to say that it arose in what they themselves often claim is the “end” times.

Evangelicals do look like they could be the false Christian movement that John referred to as "antichrist", and as such they would have a prophetic connection to the evil political leader who is mistakenly called the antichrist, but is actually called the "beast". The book of Revelations talks of two evil leaders called beasts. The second beast is called a false prophet, but he is said to exercise the same authority as the first beast. Of all world leaders in history, Ronald Reagan remains the best candidate for the first beast.

• Ronald Wilson Reagan did have 666 in his name. (Revelation 13:18) Having six characters in three names is more impressive than anything that an be derived from numerology. With all the different languages, all the different variations in translation, all the different methods of numerology, numerology has derived 666 from many current and historical names.
• Reagan's press secretary was shot through the brain, yet somehow he lived. (Revelation 13:3) (James Brady).
• Reagan died in his own bed in torment. (2 Esdras 12:26) The second book of Esdras describes a three-headed eagle to appear in the last days. The three heads are said to represent three of the final kings of the kingdom of the eagle. These will be three evil kings who are said to accomplish his wickedness and finish his last end. (Reagan, Bush, Bush) The first head of the eagle dies in his own bed in torment.
• Reagan commanded the world's greatest military. (Revelation 13:4). The beast doesn’t actually rule the entire world since there are other nations that make war both for and against the beast. The beast has authority or power over the world in that he rules the most powerful nation.
• The first beast of Revelation leads into captivity and is led into captivity. (Revelation 13:10) Reagan led into captivity: Iran-contra. Reagan was led into captivity: Alzheimer's.
• The first beast is not said to govern for three and a half years; the prophecy says that power is given to him to continue for three and a half years. That would be about the time that Reagan slipped into Alzheimer’s disease, which greatly derailed him and his agenda.

The two Bush presidents are more consistent with the second beast of Revelation.

• The second beast has two horns. (Revelation 13:11) The two horns would be George Bush and George Bush, the two presidents with the same name. Their names are George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush, but the name both men have used in public life is George Bush.
• The second best is called a false prophet, yet he is said to have the same authority as the first beast, and the first beast is clearly a political leader. George Bush has the same authority as Reagan, and he is an evangelical who thinks he's on a mission from God. (Revelation 16:13)
• George Bush was (president), is no longer (president), and yet at the same time is (president). (Revelation 17:11)
• Both presidents Bush have killed with the sword, and both will ultimately die by the sword. (Revelation 13:10) This is consistent with the book of Esdras, which says the other two heads of the eagle will die by the sword.
• The beast is one of the seven [final] kings; he is also the eighth, yet there are only seven. (Revelation 17:10) This is because having the same public name (George Bush & George Bush) means the two presidents are one person considering the Biblical importance and symbolism of a person's name. In reality, Bush and Bush are two people. Thus, George Bush is one of the seven final presidents; and he is also two of the eight final presidents. (All eight being alive when the first Bush took office).
• The first George Bush desecrated the temple. (Revelation 13:6) During Vice President Bush's trip to the Middle East in 1986, Bush prayed at the western wall in between conversations with Ollie North about Iran-contra which was `wickedness'. To pray at the temple while engaged in wickedness is a desecration. The second George Bush may yet desecrate the temple during his upcoming visit to Israel.
• The second Bush proclaimed himself God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4) Bush said he would "Destroy all evil", and execute "Infinite Justice".
• Seven angels are said to blow seven trumpets. After the first trumpet is blown there are events that could be seen as WWI. After the second trumpet: WWII, after the third: Chernobyl, after the forth: Desert Storm. After the fifth trumpet is blown, smoke from the bottomless pit will darken the sun and the air, as locusts like scorpions are permitted to torment people for five months. (Revelation 8:7-9:11) This could be compared to the early months of the US occupation of Iraq with Apache helicopters as the locust. The smoke that darkened Iraq came from oil fires. This means that the phrase “bottomless pit” can, at least on some occasions, be referring to oil since oil was the source of the smoke and the “bottomless pit” is said to be the source of the smoke. The beast is said to ascend out of the bottomless pit. (Revelation 17:8) Meaning the beast will come from the oil industry.
• This beast goes into perdition or destruction. (Revelation 17:11) The one who declares himself God is call the son of perdition. (2 Thessalonians 2:3) Meaning he's the one who brings on the destruction.

What is amazing is that Bush actually makes sense of prophecies that had previously seemed impossible. It has long been thought that a world leader like Nero would rise from the dead since it seems that only resurrection from the dead would fulfill the prophecy. But having two leaders with the same name (George Bush and George Bush) fulfills the prophecy without resurrection from the dead. It has long been wondered if the second beast would be a political leader or a religious leader since the prophecy seems to suggest both. Now, thanks to George Bush, the prophecy makes sense. Bush is a political leader and also a false prophet.

Conservative Christians become angry when I say Bush is the beast and they are the antichrist although I don't condemn them to hell like they do most of humanity, and would say that they are only fulfilling a role. Liberals will tend to dismiss any talk of Biblical prophecy because many Christians have left a bad taste in the mouths of many people regarding the Bible. And while liberals hate Bush, many would say that he is too stupid to be the beast. In fact, the prophecies describe a man who is very arrogant, but say nothing of his intelligence.

Some say that Bush is a lame duck whose time is past, but Bush is still president. All Bush has to do is attack Iran and it would fulfill more prophecies and set in motion the fulfillment of Armageddon. But, hey, what's the chance of Bush going after Iran?

Why is it that people give into sensationalist ideas about the world ending when there is much work to be done in making the world a better place to live?

The bible says that the end time is only known by the father, not jesus nor the holy ghost, only the father, so who are the rest to claim to know, are they better than jesus and the holy ghost.

Personally i beleive, that the end time are close, how close exactly, i dunno, but most of the minor signs have gone and taken place, we only wait for the major signs now.

bon jour...

the mark of the beast is well known in the Bible and goes into some detail in Revelations....you are correct about the "chip"...it was developed under the name veri-chip...it is the size of a grain of rice and can be easily inserted under the skin...the only problem was that there was no way to power it until a couple years ago when a power generator, the same size as the chip, was developed and used your body heat to power it...where is the best places to put them on the body?...according to the company that makes them, the fore head and the back of the hand...the chip has an enormous memory and capable of "talking" to other computers by simple sensors...

randomhit10

God did not put pornography, crime, poverty, anguish, torture, murder, adultery, wickedness, and injustice here. Man did that. I'll be glad when God wipes it all out.

Since when did we ever have to prove anything to the skeptic. Since when did we ever have to play by their rules. They don't determine which ground we debate on, they are just louder. If you let the skeptic be louder, you won't be heard. And that is what they want.

As I pointed out earlier, humanity as a majority is not selfless enough to think as one for one cause.

You mean to tell me that kids who are kidnapped and used as sex slaves are self-pitying people who are responsible for their own actions? And the children starving in Africa? And the people being oppressed in the Middle East. I'll take that remark as ignorance.




Ofcourse, that will never happen, no matter how hard we try. The only thing that matters is that we try and know why we should try.

I know and I am mad at myself for losing my cool. And I did I told them all they were going to hell in a handbasket. I knew better when I did it but that didn't stop me I was so angry. They said I was not Gods best defender, I was illiterate and dumb All because had the gall the nerve to tell them God loves them no matter what they do, They could ask God to forgive them and It was awful. Ten different people at once demanding proof and when I said You know there is no proof it is called faith and you can feel Gods power and love. Thats the proof I bring , Along with my unbreakable commitment to God and Jesus Christ. I am very stubborn and I will not go away so quickly. I will keep on that is unless someone were to ask me to stop. But as of yet No one has told me to shut up. They listen and show me respect like I show them. But this forum was really disrespectful and just down right hateful. I should have stayed and tried my best to win them over. But I let the thought in my head that it was just so hopless there was nothung I could do. And then I condemned them to hell because they were so mean to me. I may not be Gods best spokes person, But that does not matter to me or God. I do my best, and I try my very best thats all anyone can do, I snapped and I hope God forgives me for condemin them to hell just because they were mean. I stayed off UM for a couple days convienced I was the worst christiain for doing that, But I forgave myself and asked for Gods understanding and here I am, Always a pleasure Bluefinger.

Sandee,

I actually think they would have enjoyed having you there. They were probably overexcited - forums are only interesting when there is a mix of different beliefs.

Don't worry too much about it. I am sure they didn't lose sleep over what they said to you.

You might want to research other ancient civilizations as they also have prophecies of the end times. The Mayans, Native American Indians even Nostradamus had laid out a timeline. The only thing I would like to mention is that in the older versions of the Bible, many historians and expert linguists say that the originals don't exactly say that Revelations predicts the end of humanity and the world; only a great change followed finally by peace and a new age of man.

Scientists and astrologers are afraid that when the planets align, around that time, there may be a gravitational disaster that may spell extinction. That is another theory. In the end, are you really that worried? If so, read the serenity prayer. Look around and see what you can do to improve the world around you. Change the things that you can change. You are our future and if you are frozen with fear, what chance do we have? Even the prospect of death does not stop me from helping people and trying to bring comfort and sanity into their lives. I am sick, I have stopped breathing once already; yet, I do not fear death at all. I like to see it this way. "Something is going to happen." "What? What is going to happen?" "Something wonderful" (2001).

Mariposa1

Oh I am quite sure they didn't lose any sleep. I have never met people so cruel and mean before, I know you are thinking yeah, right, but I am being totally honest, someone here sent me pm and told me ho much they liked my topics and I just happen to get that message soon as I logged back on here at UM, Always a pleasure.

HAHAHA...This is so inappropriate but i got a visual of a guy whose chip won't read scanning his head over and over and over again.....

I think for it to be the mark of the beast it will have to be a clear choice between choosing God and choosing the other side because no one who takes the mark can be admitted to heaven, so i don't think that it will be thaat tricky. maybe but I doubt it.

You can't win them over. Only God can change hearts. Your job is not both to sow and reap. Paul sowed, Apollos reaped. The Gospel you speak may be watered and nourished by someone else. Just have faith that God can do anything. Yes, Sandee, always a pleasure. And God loves you so much, so don't worry.

Sandee. Don't be discouraged. Don't lash out when they attack you. Be silent when they burn you alive even(not literally). And that will stand as testament.


The end will come soon enough. It would be wise to take heed to lessons that can be learned and nothing can prepare you like praying and studying revelation. It say he who has an ear let him hear. so listen to what is going on and be ready. but be ready in your heart.

Sandee. Don't be discouraged. Don't lash out when they attack you. Be silent when they burn you alive even(not literally). And that will stand as testament.


The end will come soon enough. It would be wise to take heed to lessons that can be learned and nothing can prepare you like praying and studying revelation. It say he who has an ear let him hear. so listen to what is going on and be ready. but be ready in your heart.

Sandee,
As I said, this country was founded on religious freedom. You are entitled to your faith as much as they are entitled to no faith. There is no excuse for rudeness. I have people get their pants all in a bunch because I didn't agree with them either. The best thing to do is stay calm, agree to disagree and not wanting to invite more rudeness rather than adult discussion, excuse yourself and tell them you thought this was an adult forum for educated adults. Obviously you were mistaken since only egoistic college students and know-it-all teens tend to be this rude. You will find another more ethical site, and leave. Period.

I have found that rudeness of this kind is not limited to youth. It is rampant in any age group and denotes a lack of confidence. It's easy to rant, rave and insult someone in writing that you never have to actually confront, isn't it? Cowards! Sometimes I just stick around to do some fancy word fencing and get them so riled up they don't make any sense anymore. Sometimes it's not worth the trouble. Don't let them upset you. When you see that nothing you say is getting through, let it go. They are also entitled to their choices, poor as they may seem.

faith and feelings are not proof or facts. understand that.

the bible is not proof that God exists. it is opinion. it is mans opinion that it is God inspired.

prayer 'answered' is not proof God exists , but more so coincidence because 99% of prayer is not answered.

your claiming something exists to which there is no proof. nature is not proof. our existance is not proof. the bible or koran or torah are not proof.

there is more proof aliens/ufo's exist than God !

upsetting ? sure. but realistic .

so to claim something exists you must have proof. where is it ? I believe in God , but I have no proof. I feel. I have faith. But I know that is not proof. That's exactly why it's called faith and not fact.


So sandee your not being attacked. you are being asked for proof. you have none. I have none. While I believe I am also honest enough with myself to know that what I believe and feel on faith may be nothing more than my own brain . a chemical reaction compounded with the need for a God. If I look at it neutrally, objectively. I can't not be honest about it.
Being honest also means I don't get upset when I'm questioned about what I believe. I have no hidden fear that what I believe may not be true so I don't worry if it is or isn't .

example - how many have fallen in love only to find out it's one way ? you may feel it with your whole heart and see signs that seem to say to you they feel the same and come to find out they didn't ? So can the belief be in God. honestly. if one is being extreamly honest with ones self. what may be believed is no more than mans hopes and wishes written down contributed to a non existant God and we delude ourselves by picking out signs and falling more in love and basing fact on that feeling when nothing else is there.

being neutral and objective , looking at it , being honest ............. there is no way anyone could say there is a God factually. anywhere . it wouldn't be honest. as long as the possibility exists that there isn't one . one cannot say factually there is.

but that's only if you want to be honest.

Lt,
You are quite right, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they will most likely hang onto it with a death grip before agreeing with someone else. That is why I say to take it with calm and a grain of salt.

In my way of seeing it... ''god'' doesnt exist... hes just the balance in the world in good and evil
hes inside of us.
and for me the bible is only a guide for a ''good'' life like alot of people want the world to be.
and theirs alot of things in the bible that contradict everything exept if you see it in parabole(french).

and for the apocalypse? someone whrote it as a message to multiple people who shall uncover its meaning when it shall be needed.

A literal interpretation of these passages shows that Jesus and Paul believed that the end would come sometime in their own very near future -- certainly during the 1st century CE. That, of course, did not happen. As reported, Peter and Paul's beliefs were simply wrong.

A symbolic meaning is the only other choice. Religious conservatives generally believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. Since they believe that Jesus is one person in the Trinity, then he could not have been in error. Since Paul's writing was directly inspired by God and preserved from error then he could not have been mistaken


Many different versions of Christianity were propagated by Jesus' followers and by others who had never met Jesus but had heard of his message. These fell into three general categories: The Pauline Christians were successful, and survived to form the Christian church which now exists in thousands of different forms.
The Jewish Christians who were later scattered and largely exterminated by the Roman Army when they destroyed the Temple and most of the rest of Jerusalem in 70 CE.
The Gnostic Christians who were oppressed and almost completely exterminated by the Pauline Christians with the help of the Roman Empire. Some survived, and the Gnostic version of Christianity is now in a period of rapid growth.


Almost all of the groups in the very early Christian movement anticipated the imminent appearance of the Kingdom of God, the arrival of the Son of Man in power, and angels taking the elect -- the true believers -- up into Heaven. It was a main focus of their belief. It never materialized. The Church came instead.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl16.htm

God made light on the first day, but didn't make the sun, moon, and stars until the fourth. Abraham was promised to possess the Holy Land, but saw Isaac's birth from Sarah as an assurance of that promise, though he never lived there.

What I'm trying to get at, is that Jesus was telling His disciples which sign they would see that would assure them that they would be resurrected and Christ would usher them into a new kingdom. That sign was the destruction of Jerusalem. That was the point of the 'abomination of desolation' quote that Jesus gave in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Luke 21 identifies it with armies surrounding Jerusalem.

The sign is as good as the fulfillment when it comes to God's promises.

and Jerusalem , and the temple , was destroyed in/about 70 AD. came and went. so much for apocalypse.

I know I can't prove God's exsistence, But there are things we know to be real but can't see it. The air we breathe is not visible but we know its there. I hope I am always inclined to be honest no matter what it might bring. I too am being honest when I say God does exsist and proof is not required by me but for the ones who do require proof, You will not find what you are looking for you are seeking to prove God doesn't exsist, And while that is your choice and I respect that , You could just try believing that God is real and genuine without your required proof, After all if you try and don't suceed then you can honestly say in your opinion that God isn't real, Always a pleasure

I do not tolerate rudness, I have a huge problem with that, I teach my children manners from the day they are born. My husband tells me I am obsessive when it comes to manners and maybe so. I think its a reflection of yourself and Tells people that you respect and value them and their opinions even though you may disagree with their veiws. Without manners we can not function properly, Everyone should practice good manners. Always a pleasure