Matthew 10:16 says: I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

The story of Adam & Eve the bible seems to leads us to believe that Satan took the form of a snake & tempted Eve to take a bite of the apple. The word shrewd in this passage leads us to believe that Satan is wise & knowing so going back to a previous post of mine (Satan a fallen hero) this might lead us to believe that he really was looking after mankind. Perhaps?

It wasall a big act, to get them toleave thegarden, and know, or experience everything this world has to offer.

God knew they would do this, It was a set up of biblical proportions, same way Judas and jesus knew what was tocome, Just playing the part.

Love Omnaka

The passage says "I'm sending you out like sheep among wolves." We are the sheep, satan and his minions are the wolves. Do wolves look after sheep? Satan isn't looking after mankind. Satan would want you to believe that though. If you see him as a protector then you will be more likely to sway to his influence.

And what's so amazing about satan being wise? He's evil but he's not an idiot.

I personally do not believe in the Christian God or Satan.

I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned Satan is wise & amused, Jehovah is cruel,egotistical & childish, Jesus is good, insightful & empathetic.

I just think something got terribly misinterpreted & messed up

You said he's evil but I see no mention of him killing anyone in the bible.

Satan killed the seven sons and three daughters of Job but even that was a shared kill with God because they made a bet over it and God allowed him to do it.


Why they could not have a bet over tidily winks or a game of monopoly I don't know but it was a shared kill.


Also many see Satan as the evil bad guy because he is not the creator of us, so if God kills us it is okay because he created us and we are supposed to say thank you god we wuv !!! you!!! while he is smiting us down, and just accept that it must be for some sort of plan.


Also people will mention how Satan was jealous of us. Well ummm lets see now God created us apparently as the ultimate creation, more important than the angels and Satan and we were his favourite. So basically God played favouritism and Hurt Satan's feelings because God was being a bit of a jerk.


I could carry on but Lets just say that from my look at it God is a wicked evil creature that should not be loved even if it might be our creator. And I see Satan as a being who actually tried to be honest with us and show us the way instead of being a mindless drone and hanging on Gods every word he showed us what to do to gain knowledge and think for ourselves.

But God and Satan are not real too me but I will give Satan my respect at least he is more honest.

the best saying has to be watch out for the wolf in sheeps clothing.

should make you think twice about any religion.

Nice one Lt. R.

My interpretation of what was stated is Satan is sly and cunning; therefore wise.

I know there are a lot of good Christians but I just cant grasp my head around the idea that people would want to love that being more than their own children and flesh and blood. And when that so called loving being Kills it is justified because it is the creator.

So a little Kid could be crossing a road but whamo!!! he gets run over and killed, but don't worry its okay because Tee hee hee God has a plan.


I think Satan if he is trying to lure people away is trying to keep people out or harms way by trying to tempt us away from God. But good old all loving God will roast us in Hell for all eternity if we do not accept his son he let get slaughtered as our saviour. But at least I know that when I am burning in hell for all eternity I can relax and comfort myself with the knowledge that God loves me and Tee hee hee its all part of his plane.


Sorry for ranting folks lol.


In my Opinion....


Satan not so Bad ------ God evil wicked bringer of Doom

There is an old saying from Chile that is roughly translated as: "The Devil is wise because he is old, not because he is the devil."

I really can't think that anyone, God included, should underestimate the Devil. Heck, he led a coup d'etat and walked away with a third of the heavenly hosts. That takes skill!

Satan is known as the great deceiver. You can't be a deceiver without knowledge/ wisdom, so yes satan is wise.

The problem is that wisdom, in the form of knowledge is a neutral quality. It depends on the purpose to which you put the wisdom /knowledge which determines its nature.

This is both the basis of the first temptation(humans were given knowledge, but not the experience/maturity to use it wisely) and the present human condition(we are continually expanding our knowledge base, but without the commensurate ethical/moral wisdom required of a species which has so much power over itself and the world environment)

Perhaps god was correct in denying a very young and immature humanity the knowledge inherent in the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Certainly, He and satan both knew what the consequences would be when/if humanity took this knowledge before the appointed time.

"You said he's evil but I see no mention of him killing anyone in the bible."
Norwood.

Biblically, Satan is responsible for every death in the bible and on earth to the present day, from that of adam and eve onward. Death, along with pain and suffering , disease and decay did not exist in eden (yea I know, that means it operated under different physical laws than exist now.) Whats so suprising about that, given the biblically understood powers of god. After all, he has promised to restore us to a similar form of existence.

Death is the ultimate result of sin/disobedience, but there are many other ancillary results that came with this, from the effects on the human psyche of eating the fruit such as; guilt, greed, envy etc, through to the ultimate pain and suffering that we feel when a loved one sickens or dies.

Is that such a good thing though living forever without death.



But too me that sounds like Temptation.




But all that makes us human the bad things with the good make us complete take those away we are not normal any more take away one of the other and we become sub human.

Nitpick: It was a fruit and not specifically an apple.
The Sumerians may have had a more accurate version of the story, saying Jehovah and Satan (Enlil and Enki) were both the same race, and were co-creators of the Sumerian race. Jehovah wanted humans as slaves while Satan felt humans could function as equals in their society, so Satan gave people greater intelligence and Jehovah threw humanity out into the wilderness.

The Hebrew version says practically the same thing, but it was written later, and from a different perspectve. Genesis was said to be dictated by Jehovah to Moses. In it, you can see that Jehovah is a lunatic who views humans his own expendable life forms, but this is portrayed as a good thing, and Jehovah is deified as creator of the universe.

EDIT -

You know who threw people out of Eden, right?

well according to the bible -

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

Im gonna have to agree with Ripley. Though some of these verses quoted are interpreted as "calamity" and not evil, I still believe that God is involved in allowing evil but I disagree with Mr Walker as Satan is not the only responsible agent for death. God has killed many people on the face of the earth, even without satans intervention and this is made evident in the OT.

Hairston

I understand that Context is important but sometimes I feel that a lot of picking and choosing goes on.

You are entitled to see it that way, even if that was not quite how it happened. First, they suffered the consequences of their own choice and actions. I know that is not a popular concept these days, but natural consequence is one of the first rules of both god and nature.

Second, they were no longer physically capable of living in eden. They had changed, but the nature of eden had not. It was the only part of earth which remained uncorrupted. Adam and eve now had to till the soil, to grow and eat vegetables and grains, whereas in eden they had simply lived on fruit and nuts. The bible says that eden was taken up to the heavenly city, where it remains today.

Third, god could not allow a young, and very immature, sentience continued access to the tree of life and thus to immortality once they had disobeyed him and taken the knowledge of good and evil prematurely, without the education and spiritual development god had planned for them. We can see today how dangerous short lived humans can be. Imagine what would have happpened if they had also been immortal.

So the concept of god, "throwing out "adam and eve is only correct in the sense that a father might "throw out" a son who was making crystal meth in their home and selling it to his younger brothers and sisters.

True dat bro, And funny too!

Love Omnaka

You are VERY disillutioned if you think for one second that satan is a hero or anything but the DEVIL , He was a sacred angel with God, He had life the best it will ever get for anyone and yet he chose to defy God because he wanted power! It is just that simple No debate or Questions needed. You can not turn that around to God was wrong about satan or that satan was ''MISUNDERSTOOD", No offense intended but, Give ME A Break! satan represents everthing thats bad and evil, the devil, Lucifer, I don't care what you call him, he is the definition of all thats bad an devil and Just Wrong, How can someone try and glorify thay in any way what so ever? I don't care what you believe in theres always got to be a good and a bad, Otherwise you wouldn't know the difference. I can't understand at all why satan would be thought as anything but B.A.D. If someone is trying to glorify satan to someone then they themselves are not thinking clearly, How else could you explain it other tha to say that satan is intervening and kowingly decieving the person or people. I am not clear on that subject I know God exsist and therefore satan exist, But what if any powers he may have when it comes to us I am undecided on, Always a pleasure. P.S The satan is everything that is NOT GOOD, Always and ever that will be true. That will never change.

Your responses epitomise our different understandings of the nature of god and his promises. This is quite common. Few people have really looked into; the nature of god, the way in which he made us, and the way in which he hopes to remake us..

In my eyes living forever, the way god created us, is a wonderful thing. Slowly growing in wisdom and understanding, constantly learning and experiencing new things, developing new abilities, and useful "trades". All these things god intended for us. I have tried to do these things all my life on earth, but after 56 years, the body and mind start to get weary( and I'm told it only gets worse. )

Illness, weakness, and eventually death and decay take away from one's abilty to continue to develop and, particularly to enjoy one's skills and faculties. Thus, when we are living as the lord intended, then yes, living for a very long time is a great thing. (possibly if one is living a life not like the lord intended, one might not want to live for ever. If your only rewards in life were transitory ones and your only purposes selfish ones then perhaps one would grow weary of life. (This is not a personal your, but a general one)

It is not temptation it is a promise, and only a promise to restore us to the type of existence originally intended for us.

There is also a definitional problem here as "temptation' has an implicit bias towards tempting one to evil. It is rarely, if ever, used as a word meaning to tempt one to do good(although this may be an acceptable use of it.) Thus you imply being tempted to do good, is bad, only because temptation is generally defined as a bad thing. (being tempted to do good is actually a good thing.)

Finally, your only experience of humanity is the fallen variety. No offense; we are all in the same boat. However, this is not the way humans are meant/designed to be. At most ridding humanity of evil would not make us sub human but rather super human, but, in fact, ridding us of evil would merely restore us to the nature we were meant to have. ie to be fully human is not to have an evil side. I can't see why this is not more obvious to more people Accepting evil as an innate part of our nature gives each individual an excuse not to fight against evil wherever they find it. In themselves, or in their society.

I think you have Satan and Lucifer confused, Lucifer Is a beloved son Of God, once loved forever , or eternally loved by Father.

As was prophesised, Lucifer was redeemed long ago , and rides for God and the good God race (Holy Host) as a Horseman.

Call him the prodigal son, who made it back to love and goodness. I'm terribly sorry that the bible did not mention that God could and would redeem, nand love anyone who sought such, but I know it said, Father would redeem any earthling who asked, do you not think he would forgive or redeem one of his special sons, who has done so much for mankind , seperating thje wheat from the chaff, or giving The experience Of seeing the difference between Dark and Light?

Do you think Judas is in Hell for what he did, or do you think Maybe God had a hand in it?

Or really adam and eve, They are blessed for their transgressions and learning, so are you and Me, if we learn from them and make it back to compassion and love. Every one of us can be a satan, yes we are all capeable, as we are all capeable of having a change of heart.

God Forgives and loves all unconditionally, especially the son's of God who chance all and make it Back.

Love OmNaka

Mr walker, You are so very wise, You have a way of getting your point and veiws across thats unbelievably so simple. I once heard a guest pastor at our church who could tell you a story about something that happened and relate it to Gods message, And I just could not believe I didn't have to keep looking up scriptures or study what he was trying to teach us. That is the only person I have ever knew till you, Mr.Walker that could explain something that is very difficult to comprehend... To really understand the whole meaning without any room for debate or doubt. You have a gift for telling the whole story, Without leaving room for debate or doubt, you should be a pastor, preacher I know you teach us here at Um, ones that want or or willing to listen to you come away with the full story and understanding it, Always a pleasure.

I like Him Better as a Brother.

Love omnaka

Thank you both. Mr Walker, as well as being as strong as ten tigers, and with the memory of ten elephants, should have at least a little wisdom after 56 years of working on it.

I do not mind when people disagree with me. I enjoy both, putting my pOv, and debating it.

Sandee. I have been a teacher, and counsellor, of adolescents for over 35 years . It is one talent I probably do have. I have been asked to preach in a number of churches, but I really don't see my role as trying to convert people, just to present another point of view. Up until a few years ago I also did not feel comfortable enough in my own relationship with god, to be telling others how to go about it, and while I now have a good working relationship with god, I still don't feel it is my place to preach to others (although I guess some people would say that's what I am doing here.)

After giving quite a few eulogies at our local funeral parlour, I was also offered a job there because, I guess, of my speaking abilities and my attitude to a wide range of grieving people. Somehow teaching young (and mostly alive) people appeals to me more than speaking for the dead . It is quite ironic that my lifetime fear has always been getting up in front of a group of people and speaking to them. To overcome the fear I worked on all elements of it, and now do a reasonable job, and yet still it terrifies me.

and omnaka I must agree with you, we are indeed brothers, and I hope that I always treat your words with the respect that a brother deserves.

No Sandee it is just that some people are not biased and are looking at things differently instead of reading the Bible and agreeing that Satan is bad just because the Bible said so.



It is, if you are willing to believe everything the Bible says.



Oh please! If people wish to blindly follow God then that is up to them, but other people might actually see things a little different than what you and some others see and some people are not afraid to question God's motives.



That's strange because when God kills everyone turns a blind eye or makes up excuses for God because he is God and apparently he is allowed to get away with it. And we are told he loves us but will burn us for eternity if we don't accept him and his son. So who is evil again?




How can someone glorify God who willingly killed babies?



Or maybe they are seeing more clearly than the others who are trying to glorify a being that willing kills millions and then use the excuse that he is the creator and has a plan for us.

Forgive me your right but thats still less then God ever killed. Still God let him kill the daughters so it makes you wonder.

If hes so evil then why did your God create him? How can a perfect God allow a being such as him to excist? Could it be thats hes not perfect?

Exactly!


I find Satan the lesser of two evils.

Yeah.
Theres a chapter in (i think),Sepulchure, by either S.King or J.Herbert, where the main character goes through
passages of the bible, & "proves" that religious people are worshipping the wrong one.
Do you follow a "God" like sheep, or "satan" & be free to be human ?

My son told me I was taking a dim veiw of other peoples belief just because they don't believe the same as I do. Kevin, My son disagrees with atheist because He says that they are wrong to deny God. My point being, He has strong feelings toward atheist because they don't accept God, But he doesn't think I have an objective attitude to someone who doesn't share my beliefs. So shall I take alook at myself and ask do you try and understand what other people believe and skip preaching to them out of a fear that I might offend someone. Or do I say son you are doing the same thing Just in a different way. He will argue as long as the day is long that God does exsist, But he does not try and make the person he is arguing with see that God is the only way to their salvation and that they should talk and compare notes a to why that person gave up on God or never gave God a chance. I say I will continue to try and make you see things God's way not my way, His. I will argue and debate and still try and see your point, And I do see yor point, If you do not have a personal relationship with God I think its very hard to understand that God doesn't want to punish us, His love is so very very great for each of us You can't imagine the hurt and sadness he feels when his children don't see His will is pure love and follows the wrong path away from him because they will not give him a chance to show them his will. God does not kill and he does not punish us. I lost a baby and I was devistated but I knew God knew why the bab died and that I was to be better off or the baby was better off, without being born. I can't explain faith to you But I can tell you God does what is best for everyone and He does it out of love not hate and not evil, Love. Always a pleasure chaoszerg, I know we have very different veiws and we don't agree most of the time But we do know how to treat each other with kindness and respect, Thats a very admirable Quality.

God is perfect and we are too in his eyes we are perfection, But God gave us A choice, He wants us to see that gods will is perfect and will be done, But he wants s to see that of our own freewill, God could have made man with out the choice he gave us But he chose to show us and teach us and let us make our own choice. God wants all of his children to accept him and his will , But on our own terms by our own will we will love and worship him, Not follow him because he made us, Always a pleasure

satan is the serpent in Eden...says it again in Revelation....satan is not looking after man as a guardian.

randomhti10

Most Christian don't have a clue about what the Bible really says. There is nobody named "Satan" in the only scripture Jesus ever acknowledged, the Holy Torah. Satan is a generic term that means "adversary" and there are several different ones in the Bible. In fact, Yahweh is the "Satan" or Adversary to King David, for in one verse it says Yahweh told him to conduct a census, and in another, it was "a satan".

There is no Lucifer either. Those are verses about the king of Babylon and prince of Tyre, not supernatural creatures! This has been explained many times on UM.

The Jews do not acknowledge an "evil opponent of God called Satan" because such a character is not in the bible. A real creator God does not have an opponent, and the Bible says so. God claims he creates the good and evil both. And it is Yahweh who kills millions in the Bible, and one of his seraphim assistants, not even important enough to be named, is the "adversary" in the Job story and kills seven people with Yahweh's permission.

Christianity created a Devil based on inlfuence of the Zoroastrian religion which had a good god and evil dragon devil that battle each other and at the end of the world the son of the good god will bind the dragon and imprison him in an abyss. Sound familiar? It should, becasue Revelation was stolen from PERSIAN mythology. Only the names of the dragon, God and Son of God were changed.

But back to the subject, when Jesus told his Disciples to be "Wise as Serpents" he did not mean a normal pea brained snake, he DID NOT mean a "Devil", he DID NOT mean Lucifer, because Christianity did not "invent" Lucifer for hundreds of years, and he did not mean a particular snake in the Garden of Eden who is never named, and who is actually a misunderstanding of the ORIGINAL Garden of Eden story from Sumeria, in which the Dragon Enki tricks his Servant Adam out of losing his chance to be granted eternal life from the high God in heaven.

Because Jesus was a practicing Jew, he said that the wisest, highest heavenly creatures next to God were the seraphim, which mean "fiery flying serpents" in Hebrew, or what the ancient Jews called them in Greek, Drakons. And for centuries the Christians also acknowledged that the seraphim were flying serpents or dragons, as we see in art and later scriptures. Virtually every medieval bible with illumination depicted God as a kind riding on the back of Cherubim dragons, and scenes of dragons around his throne swallowing sinners that did not pass judgement.

Virtually every human culture acknowledged "flying serpents" as wise heavenly creatures, and even Gods, as we see in the orient, mesopotamia, the americas and everywhere in between. But in most of these religions the drgons were not the creator God. Jesus merely acknowledged the serpentine seraphim who were the highest heavenly creatures as also the wisst of creatures. And the Pagan Greeks that flocked to Christianity understood this too becasue it was a worldwide human believe of the wisdom of supernatural sepent-dragons. In the temple of Athena next to the Goddess stood a huge, wise protector serpent. Both ancient Jews and Christians believed in scriptures that spoke of great serpent dragons in heaven who judged human souls with their wisdom and consumed the wicked ones.

Curiously, the barbarian cultures of the northern Europe had different legends, and feared the serpent dragons and invented myths of their heroes defeating them. When the barbarians conquered Rome, and set up their own popes, the heavenly dragons were gradually changed into humanoid angels, and new Germanic Christian myths were created about human saints defeating dragons just like the Pagan Siegfried and Beowulf.

This is "today's Christianity", a mixture of the original Chrisitanity of the Classical world and pagan North European beliefs which is the Culture of most of the readers of the post. And this is why most of you don't understand why Jesus spoke of "wise serpents", and why most of the scriptures that spoke of heavenly dragons are not in today's Bible. But archaeology proves they were once there, for we are finding them again. And as I have shown on another thread, and ultimately in my upcoming book, Yahweh Himself was originally believed to be one of these heavenly Dragons as well, and the creator God is another entity called El. Later, the "Watcher Dragon of the Hebrew Tribe, Yahweh, and the Creator God El, were merged together. This is why the Bible is so confusing. Yahweh does things that do not seem very god-like at times, and this is becasue he is not God, he's a dragon assistant. Even Jesus said as much, and called to El from the cross, not the dragon Yahweh. But Jesus still regarded the Seraphim Dragons as wise, for after all, the Creator El , distributed them among all the human cultures, which is why every culture has similar dragon legends.

I always thought God created Satan !!

I do not mean any offense, Your opinion is just that your own point of veiw, But the bible is truth, I will not sit here and debate history with you because you know the history you have studied, But history is someoness account of what how when where, that is what history is the people who live before we do record it and we read it and study it, some times theres no proof only human accounts but we see this as the past and we take it at face value unless we learn that what we thought was wrong it is true to us. Jesus walked the earth and the bible that proves that is written on peopes accounts and experiences with Jesus, Now why is it that history is held as truth and the bible held in such less regaurd? I do not see in the bible here dragons and cultures and ledgends are even mentioned so that tells me( I know the bible to be Jesus' word) they did not exsist. I have no clue what the dragons history is but I do know that everyone who does have doubts about God and Jesus cChrist seem to blame alot on the boble and christians. I had never heard that christians were believed to have high jacked pagan and wicca Holidays until I signed in to Um. I really don't think that Jesus seen nor spoke to dragons, It just does not fit, Does not make since, Always a pleasure

This makes sense .. to me !

Shrewed does not mean wise, your making assumptions and you trying to make things fit when they dont, sqaure pegs for round holes mate. The snake sneaked him in, god allowed, him after all if had stopped him before it, he would say well, give me a chance, i dint actualyl do it. So God allowed him to deceive Adam and Eve and it was their test too. Satan is wise, he has been around for along time, so you would wisen up, but a fallen hero, i dnt think so, an arch enemy, yes. The biggest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world he does not exist.

I am impressed, I don't really get my pov across But If you agree with it and I even get a smily face, I think i am moving on up to the east side, Thank you sama, Always a pleasure

that dragon dude has no idea, he claims that the idea of satan comes from Zoroastrian, who believe in two gods, evil and god, and their equal. This is so much fantasy its unbelievable, the persain mythology was woven in to the bible and the torah. its sheer fantasy, and funnly enough he never actually presents evidence for this, its pure speculation. He twist the word serpant in to actaully meaning dragon, etc, how stupid is that. And then he goes on to say, that we dont have clue, like i said to him before going by his logic, they could be refering to dinosaurs as serpants, their were reptilian, meaning man walked with dinosaurs. I can then go an link up everything and say see, serpants were actually t- rex's, and flying dragons were that flying dinosuar, cant remember name now but you get the picture, I can twist words and verse to fit that logic, this is all he does.

I do agree with you on a certain level, God did let satan in the garden but, How can we possibly know why he did? I don't see it in genisis, I don't see any scriptures that tell us why< Maybe this is another thing we just are not supposed to know. To know why God let evil into the garden would clear so Many things up, That is why I am leaning toward we are not suppose to know the reason or God would make it very clear Why? I am wrong SOMETIMES, so I may be wrong, Anyone know? The biggest trick the devil has ever plated is when he tried to trick the one and only the Boss, God. Close second would be not revealing his true powers if any to us, We don't really know what he is capable of, Because he hasn't really showed us, Always a pleasure

yes If any of the things he is saying are fact then we would have heard of them before now, I am old enough and intelligent enough that I would have heard of it before U M . Now I respect his Belief that he is factual,And I respect his pov I just don't agree at all, Im sorry. I seen your writing a book? You have that much info and facts, And are you advertising it? Always a pleasure

God created evil. for a purpose . evil can do nothing God has not approved of.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)


--- now I myself don't believe in 'evil' I believe life happens , it can be horrible. it's just the experience. Gods' purpose. no choice , no free will. just the illusion thereof so we can lead a human life for the experience.

Sandee, It seems that you have no idea or patience about other religions other then yours.
Your posts are coming across like you are under attack by some others here I assure you that is not the case. I don’t think that you have done your homework on Pagan religions it is true that the roman church used Pagan holidays & used them to help convert Pagans to Christianity, this is old news, just because you haven’t heard of that before you came here does not make it false. I’d suggest that you try reading some history books on the topic & stop letting others think for you..

Every holiday from Easter to Christmas was once a Pagan holiday even the idea of bringing in a tree & decorating it & give presents were once Pagan traditions.

I’m going to give you a link showing what I’m talking about I would post more but I highly doubt you’ll read the one I’m posting for you now.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

I have a questionf or you when someone else quoted that verse you didn't believe but you post it this time. What gives?

i know I come across strong and while I know that is true I have been taking a more indept look at other religions. I am so fille with the sprit of God I just think it's a shame to waste my feeling Gods sprit on just myself, I really am so hapy to share about God. I am well aware that there are some people who find me to strong to pushy, But, You see I consider that compliments instead of insults. I am aslo aware that I don't give youre religions a fair chance, And believe me it is nothing at all against you here at Um, I just don't feel any strong need to know all the religions, I am very Happy in mine, God takes care of me. I do and have been learning about some of the beliefs of some very kind friends I have here in UM,I don't agree with their pov or beliefs sometimes, But I figure If they can listen to a pushy, sly, self rightous God lover Like me, Then i can learn some of their beliefs. That way I am able to give and recieve, I am suprised you haven't noticied. I know that just because I have not heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exsist. I have learned about so many religions from people I truly respect here, That I had no idea even exsisted. I will take a look at your link and learn something about the pagans, I do have a few friends here tht i would like to show I can and will try to learn about their religion too, Thank you for the advise I do appriciate that you think enough of me to tell me I am taking a ver dim view at other religions than my own. My son said that to me, By the way. Always a pleasure

I asked the same thing but got no reply, I just assumed she made a mistake as we all tend to do sometimes. Always a pleasure.

What Draconic is saying is true, the idea of an adversary of God comes from Zoroastrianism. If you took some time to study the history of religions in the Middle East you might have a better understanding of what you are talking about. I have known Draconic on this site a long time and found him very knowledgeable on the subject of religious history. I look forward to his booking coming out.

Sandee, I ‘m happy that you have such strong convictions about your faith I find it refreshing, more people should have your conviction no matter what path they choose to follow. You talk of fantasy in one of your post
But if you look back though out history there is a lot of fact behind them. Take Dracula for example he was named Vlad III of Walachia (or Wallachia) was the factual historical prince upon whom Stoker is believed to have based his vampire count. There are countless other stories that start out with some fact behind it. I was not just talking about Paganism but all religions I was just giving you an example of mine.