You know...I seriously do not doubt that there are many who would sit down at a computer and search for things to comlain about.I work with a few people who do nothing but complain about everything they can think of.I think everyone has known of or heard of the type of person who "isn't happy unless they have something to complain about".

And yes,people need to grow up and quit being so overly sensitive about piddly stuff.Some act as if one old adage has been turned completely around (you know the one...."Sticks & stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me").Some act as if one word will totally destroy their lives.Some act as if they'd been run through with a sword.I think it's quite ridiculous to see so many people being so sensitive that it makes others tiptoe around them.

I can see being respectful in some cases,but that doesn't mean that you have to be so "PC" all the time.All that does is help keep someone else's self-esteem at a low point.

Humans have become such wimps.

But Christians DO have personal names for their God. Have you ever heard "Jehova" or "Yahweh"?
To me, the whole "all gods but our God must have lower-case g's" seems like just an obvious means of making all other Gods seem less-than.

Either way though, I think we've established that when Atheists say "God damn", they are NOT referencing ANY particular God that anyone believes in.
"God" is such an impersonal term. Even certain humans like to call themselves Gods. (Not me, but people...)

Marilyn Manson damn... It just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily.

And why is it that you never have a thought thats your own, You just go around the forums remarking on other peoples remarks. I have sai this and will say it again, I did not ask your opinion, Although your welcome to it I have no doubt that you sit there and play these silly games. You have insuted me time and time again by trolling the forums and loking for a reason to insult my character. You have no right to judge me, I could give a rats as- what you think. Did you get your coffee this morning before you started looking for ways to insult. I refuse to play your sick and twisted game, I don't care what you have to say your opinion carries no weight here!

I beg to differ, respect is always called for and a wimp would not come out and say hey you are wrong!

Actually, I went through this several months ago on UM. There are fairly hardfast rules in most languages for when you capitalize God and when you don't. It's a part of speech. When "God" is used as a proper noun, capitalize. When it's used as an adjective, it's lower case.

Example:

Usage as a noun: And God said "let there be light."

Usage as an adjective: The god Zeus, threw down lightening bolts.

Notice, "Zeus" is always capitalized, it's a proper name. In this sentence, "god" is an adjective describing what Zeus is.

Honestly, the term goddamn is all one word, not two, and it's generally a verb. It is not capitalized. Technically, it should be no more offensive than saying "The god Zeus".

Saying goddamn, as a verb isn't taking the "Lords name in vain" ... it's not being used as a noun in that instance. But it is a very natural thing to say when you drop a 40lb barbell on your toe.

I mean, take this example using the word "mother" as several different parts of speech.

I took Mother to see the Buchart Gardens.

My mother loved seeing the roses in the gardens.

I went to Las Vegas and struck the motherlode.

It's no different when using god as a part of speech. It can be an adjective, a proper noun, a verb, or even an intransitive verb. Pfft. Capitalize or not as appropriate. Also recognize that proper nouns and verbs aren't the thing.

I have a friend named Sissy. Do you think she has a cow when someone else says "oh, stop being a sissy?" no... because they don't have the same meaning and because of that, no one is taking her name in vain. (although, it would be funny if some told her to stop being a sissy. Irony would be all it was though)

Do you know what the term high maintenance means in reference to a person ?

We are here to discuss & debate ,not win a popularity contest. This isn't high school. We are too old for that.

I will not conform and act as you demand I should . I'm not here to fight. I'm sorry if I offended. I will not be the last one, assured.

I think most people say it because they grow up hearing other people say it. If you think about it, most other bad language isn't meant to literally mean anything either.

that was a goddamned good post

As for why I say it; when I was a kid, it was a "safe" way of swearing. I went to french school, and in the french language generally when people swear, and they mean it, they use some sort of religious expletive. I knew this from being friends with mostly french first language kids and being around their parents. Our teachers were french emmersion, not french first language, so they didn't realize what we were saying when we were saying it....We thought we were pretty clever haha

Also, they're just fun words to say. They fit into conversation a lot more easily than some other choice words.

My favorite two atheist uses of the words;

"Oh your God" <-- a friend of mine from school who had just heard a crazy story

"Oh my God I am so glad I don't have to go to church anymore" <--- a friend of mine after she came out as an atheist to her devout irish catholic parents.

I don't think God cares really. A perfect being would be more secure. don't you think ?

Out of habit, my Dad said it his Dad says it and my sons say it. I have been trying to change to some Pagan curses, like Mother Moon, I don't give a Dagda's cat or Dagda's d**k, I am going to kick the Goddess out of you.
Did you come up this thread so we could curse on line? I wish I would have thought of it.

If you are in this compromising position on a sunday morning, does "oh God" costitute as using his name in vain ?

I agree God is perfect, But I think its more out of respect to God not to take his name in vein. I hear you when you say Its just a word and it could be to God, But to me its insulting and disrespectful to God. No God does not need me to defend I do it because I want to. God should have respect! Always a pleasure

if you think it's disrespectful to god, continue to not say it. Don't be offended when other people don't conform to your beliefs. No one is disrespecting you personally by saying it.


to me, saying goddamn is the equivalent of saying Supermandamn, both are fictional characters, and both are probably equally upset that I used their name in vein.

Long story short, please, respect God as much as you would like, but don't demand the same from people who don't believe in him/her/it.

It's one thing to ask people to respect your religious beliefs, it's another thing to tell them to respect your deities.

I don't expect any one to respect my Gods and they don't, but I don't give Dagda's cat whether they do or not. LOL

ok, now, i guess i basically dont think its an insult to 'god' at all. however, i guess it can be disrespectful to the people who worship/believe in them.
my grandmother is very religious, id never say "goddamn!!!!' in front of her. just because i try to repsect their beliefs, even if i dont share them.

the nail on the head !

God wouldn't be insulted , being perfect God has no reason to be for that takes Ego. But man is insulted. yet why should man be insulted ?




ok didn't see your post. and that's it. People don't want what they believe to be taken lightly. however that should go for all beliefs. If one faith,belief or religion can't respect another why should it be respected ?

aka respect is earned not given. you however did it out of respect for gran.

Saying 'god damn it" means literally that: you wish god to damn whatever it is you're aiming the phrase at. I fail to see how that is an insult. To be honest I'm surprised no one has tried to argue that atheists using the phrase is proof that, subconsciously, they do believe in god really...
It's all just semantics. If we start to look into why we use certain words as insults there are far more worrying examples...

yeop. but when shes not in the room. Oh man! i go Crazy!!!! lol

of course the "god" your talking about would be offended, have you read about this chap in the old testimate .. talk about a insecure jealous hateful homophobe.... i think the fact we are all still alive now is testiment to the fact that hes just a fictional character.....for if we was real... wow.. i would be scared.

I guess it could be akin to christians saying holy s**t ?

But you see, you guys can tell us that we deserve to be tortured forever (Hell), but we can't even say "God Damn"? What in the God damn hell is that? Freedom of speech.

Actually,a wimp would do just that.How do you think the "politically correct" stuff got started?A bunch of wimps couldn't handle their low self-esteem,and figured that we should all use "kinder" names for people's problems.

There is also a limit to being "respectful".It all depends upon how much you know and like the other person.

I will give everyone a modicum of respect...whether they gain more or lose it will depend upon their words and actions.If I can tell that they have low self-esteem and expect me to cater to their low level of self-esteem...they're going to lose my respect,for I believe that they are weak-willed wimps.Sorry,but back in the day,hardly a day would go by without some bully (who usually bullied because of low self-esteem) calling people names,insulting people,or attempting to beat up on someone.These actions and words toughened most of us up a lot,and it helped make us think about things and become more mature.

Now...you can regard this as just being my opinion,which is fine...since opinions differ between each and every one of us,but I've seen the wimps of the world screaming the loudest and telling everyone who differs in opinion that they're wrong...while those with good self-esteem just let everything roll off their back and move on.

...

Now,back to the topic at hand:

Ok...some people think it's insulting to say "God d**n you/it/whatever",and claim that it's "taking the Lord's name in vain".So...what do they think when someone says "God bless you" when you sneeze? Isn't that taking the Lord's name in vain as well?

In other words (WB Wolfie! Missed ya!) ....

My father in law was a priest, because I love him, I tend to watch my language around him. Why create discorse where none is needed.

However, if I dropped a 40lb bar bell on my big toe and yelled "oh goddamit!" he's going to laugh first, then call 911.

I mean come on... this is easy stuff. People can't be that offended.

Good stuff Wolfie.

Exactly my point.

I may be a bit too verbose at times....which drives humans nuts.

And I am glad to have some time to post again. (I missed everyone too)

I guess what I haven't addressed in this thread is the use of "Jesus Christ" as an explative.

Ok, I don't actually do that... I'm more apt to select another word(s) to convey my shock or feelings. A favorite being "for Pete Sake" ... although, now that I think about it, is that a reference to St. Peter? I have no idea actually. Anyways, my sister, a staunch catholic, says "Jesus Christ" all the time.

For example... several weeks ago, we were sitting in the living room and she forgot that she'd left a pot of water boiling on the stove. When she remembered she jumped up startled and said "The water! Oh Jesus!" ... now, is that swearing? No, not really... but maybe a little vocal prayer for the moment? Praying the house wasn't about to burn down?

Of course, you have to be careful... because as soon as she said it, my 4yo neice called down from the loft "Christ!" to finish off her mother's obvious inability to complete the whole exclamation. LOL.

If you want an answer to this question (and I mean an actual answer, and not some patronizing statement designed to pass judgment) it is addressed in this book:

"The Stuff of Thought" by Steven Pinker

I make no further assessments about the book's content, except to say that there is a section that does address your question directly. My personal opinion on the matter, however, is that your question seems to put a great deal of personal sentiment into a generally impersonal statement/curse (impersonal as per your example of it having been used by disbelievers). It is admirable that you see this curse for what it really is to the faithful. However, while you say it is not right that others do say this, I suspect it is rarely spoken with any real malice towards God and Jesus.
Consider those who love their mothers and yet still say "Well I'll be a son of a b****!" I find it doubtful that anyone truly considers the meanings of those words as they've said them. Yet you address these individuals in a rather condescending manner, with obvious disdain, as if their acts are not only purposeful, but personal. Again, if you really want to know why people do this, check out the book.

[quote name='Caesius' date='Jan 3 2008, 10:31 AM' post='2073177']

If you want an answer to this question (and I mean an actual answer, and not some patronizing statement designed to pass judgment) it is addressed in this book:

"The Stuff of Thought" by Steven Pinker

I make no further assessments about the book's content, except to say that there is a section that does address your question directly. My personal opinion on the matter, however, is that your question seems to put a great deal of personal sentiment into a generally impersonal statement/curse (impersonal as per your example of it having been used by disbelievers). It is admirable that you see this curse for what it really is to the faithful. However, while you say it is not right that others do say this, I suspect it is rarely spoken with any real malice towards God and Jesus.
Consider those who love their mothers and yet still say "Well I'll be a son of a b****!" I find it doubtful that anyone truly considers the meanings of those words as they've said them. Yet you address these individuals in a rather condescending manner, with obvious disdain, as if their acts are not only purposeful, but personal. Again, if you really want to know why people do this, check out the book.
[/quote
Amen.

Why choose NOT to be offended..........and choose your own actions ?

I like to think that it makes no sense to have emotional reaction to words on a message board.

Emotion eventually dissipates and I can either laugh or pity as appropriate.

The different personalities keep this forum interesting.

Some of us love drama.

I AM OFFENDED by YOUR being offended !! ...........................

Freedom of speech, freedom to be offended.

Ironic thing is that if I say poopy its okay but if I say the S word its not okay. They mean the same thing. I don't get it. The only difference is that poopy sounds funnier.

Political Correctness is the art of hiding your true intent behind fancier words. Its the art of supressing what you want to say in favor of what you should be saying. Funny thing is most of us live in free countries...so wouldn't the politically correct thing to do be to freely speak your mind?

If your confident enough in your convictions, You will fight for them. Otherwise whats the point. Everyone is entitled to their owwn opinion and yours is fine for you and thats okay by me. Always a pleasure

you must be so easily offended then

So because you made a personal choice to defend a God that a lot of people find hard to believe actually exists..and even though God doesnt need anyone to defend him...you decide to do it anyway?? is this just for the sake of - ranting?? ranting about words that nearly every tom dick and harry say ..heck even the religious say them without thinking...I seriously find it silly to be offended over something so common

I am a follower off God and even I say things like - for Gods sake...or God darn it <--pure habit and I dont see it as offensive ..and I wouldnt apologize for it either...

The need to interpret what's being said on forums is sometimes difficult. I feel I can't properly address the replies that include my post because I am really not sure if this is directed at me, or the original poster. I am guessing this was directed at me because while the original poster was offended, I don't believe it was from something posted in a forum, but rather how some people speak in general. So, if this was directed at me (even though I was pointing out how someone else seemed personally offended when others meant nothing by their words) and if my post makes it seem as though *I* was offended, then either someone completely misinterpreted my post, or I completely miscommunicated my point.
Of course, it could've been a simple mix up. Perhaps this was inadvertently directed at me, as it seems someone confused me with the one that began the posted originally...the one that quite clearly was offended (the post left me with the impression that it was more an opportunity to pass judgment, instead of getting an answer to the stated question).
Edit: After reading my post again, I still can't see where it looks like I was offended. But unfortunately, many can read a lot into the text they see on screen. I have fallen victim to this before, myself. This could be the case, or as I originally surmised - perhaps just a mix up.

I think people say those things as a way of saying "I'm being serious" or "This is serious".

Watching the 9/11 footage recorded on the streets of Manhattan at the time (family videos of tourists who were there, etc.) every single person either said "Jesus Christ" or "Holy sh**". I think that the 'J.C.' and the word 'holy' were used to indicate maximum concern, not in any disrespectful way. Some people were probably immediately praying, but I think most of them were invoking religion to indicate maximum concern.

Thinking about this, I wondered why people tacked the word "sh**" on to the word "holy". I think it was like saying "on every level, from the most spiritual to the most physical and base, I am appalled".

I really don't think people who say these things mean any disrespect. It's just a way of indicating a maximum.

Okay let put it in simple form, I was raised NOT to take the lords name in vein. To my mom and dad that was VERY serious. So in addition to standing up for what I believe, I was brought up to respect God and never use his name in vein, And I never do. If thats something everyone else wants to do then fine thats them but I would never disrespect someones belief and say it just to say it, Of course that may be where we are different I take other peoples beliefs seriously, Out of respect for them not because I believe what they do.Always a pleasure

Just a question to Sandee, if you don't mind.

Do you consider 'taking the lord's name in vain' to be using the words 'god' or 'jesus christ' in any form other than in prayer, or perhaps a sermon or church song?

Is casual conversation about God or Jesus Christ included in 'taking the lord's name in vain?'

(It is 'vain' by the way, not 'vein' - the latter is the word for small blood vessels that carry blood cells back to the heart)

You missed the AMEN ,Caesius, I was agreeing !! It was only directed at those easily offended