Thank you Omnaka for the reply I am now waiting for Sandee to Reply.



Sandee again I will ask you would you throw your child into a burning pit if that child did not love you or acknowledged you?


Edit to add:




Then why do people keep calling us God's children?

A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste

You are missing my point I expect my children to love and respect me, In fact I guess you could say I demand it. I do not give my children the option of loving me God did give us that option, See that is true unconditional love to know that your child may not return your love and yet give that option anyway is true unconditional love. I will not sit here and try to tell you that I would give birth to a child and let that child have the option of loving me because I truly couldn't , But see God did, Always a pleasure

Soory Father Never said that, I accept Jesus as my eternal brother , God, Father and Mother , would not ever do what You acuse them of, it is horendous, Once you have spoken with Father after this life You will feel pretty bad about this acusation of the one who loves Unconditionally. You are condemning for God. God did not write the book you Have taken to heart , even if he did inspire those who did write it. but There is a place for those who judge, and lead his bro by and through fear for God,
But God does not do it , You will, when you become automatically accountable for the way you loved your bro while away from Home (HEAVEN) .
Somes Idea of love is trying to scare, Frighten and Judge the bros and sister of This world.

That is not how Father (God) does it. God's power is God's unconditional love, and those who do not love unconditionally , can not stand in Father's love light, and depart out of shame.
Love Omnaka

I myself do not demand my children to love me. I hope they will love me as I love them but if they choose not to it will hurt my feelings and make me sad but I will still always love them. I do not need to demand anything of them.





You are dodging my question it is a simple yes or no.

Would you throw your child into a burning pit if it refused to acknowledge you or love you?

By the way I am not attacking you in case you feel that just asking you to answer my question.

I don't demand anything. If they love & respect me (my children) that means that I earned it.

You didn't answer the question, though.

If if god gave us the option ,a loving god/parent will not tolerate eternal suffering.

Almost NO human would tolerate/allow this unless he is a complete unfeeling PSYCHO and you know it.

You have logic,empathy somewhere in that mind of yours, I'm sure ( & morals)

iF GOD WAS YOUR BIOLOGICAL FATHER would you say okie dokie dad, you are god do whatever you think is right ? Because they didn't worship him?

How sad, makes my glad I am not a Christian, because I couldn't follow a being who would do something like that. It would brake my heart to put anyone in pain like that for all eternity. Nope I am not going along with that, there is something wrong with that kind of attitude in a supposedly loving God. I am a child of the Earth anyway.

You know what I am sick and tired of your smart remarks and I wrote the post to Ripley I did not write to get critisism from you. I dont care for you and I don't like feeling that way but when someone continues to act a certain way( ) I am sure you remember this . Who are you to say who Ripley is or isn't who gave the right to judge anyone! I was stating my opinion on her POST, you have some nerve, I am not stupid and I understand you remarks to me quite well I just chose to ignore them, Until now. I refuse to argue with you about something thats none of your business. If ripley finds the post I wrote as a compliment to be an insult then she can tell me YOU stay out of it. You can continue to post your little smart remarks if you want but I will not read them or even acknowledge them, If it makes you feel superior to sit back and make assumptions about people that you know nothing about and ridicule them well more power to you but I REFUSE TO BE A PART of it.

NO I WOULD NEVER HURT MY CHILD for any reason. As for Why would God do It, A post comes to mind where he said instead of making assumptions simply say I DONT KNOW. I did not assume you were attacking me at all, I do know when someone is and its annoying But I will get over it. I enjoy reading your post and try to answer your questions to me the best way I can, I just don't know some things and will continue to try and find the answer, Always a pleasure Chaoszerg

I mentioned the attacking thing because I just wanted you too know that I was not attacking you Just in case you maybe felt like I was. Because I do not wish to offend.





That's good to know because that is unconditional love to love someone even if they do not show it back. But God does punish those in a horrible painful way if they choose not to follow him or love him, and that is not unconditional love like some claim him to have.

Thank you for answering my post as you say dear madam always a pleasure

I said I don't know and thats true, but I think and maybe I read it somewhere in the bible that God does hurt immensly when his child turns agaisnt him, I also think , Stepping aside from any religion here, If I created the whole world and man and I created everything and wanted my will done, I would have to be able to show bad in order for Good to make sense, I would want to make sure that even though I gave man a choice My choice is better. I don't think like God or claim to know anyhting he thinks or does just my veiw, Always a pleasure

If you would not, for any reason, Do you really think Father (GOD) Would?

I mean, I aspire to love like Father (GOD) God does not aspire to love like me.

Se what I'm getting at?

Can we love unconditionally while Father does not? Or do something Good that God cannot, or does not.

I know Father Does not put any of father's children in Hell. we do it ourself, as repentant children of the one who loves all.
and even then it's not forever.Unless you want it to be, or believe some preacher man throwing Fire and brimstone and judgement for Father God, Boy is he gonna feel bad for doing that, once he realises it was him and not God doing the hating.

I feel sorry for those who judge for God, Really.
Love Omnaka

I see it this way Omnaka.

Let's imagine I have a deep swimming pool ,uncovered & not surrounded by a tall fence, in my backyard.

I have many small children that I dearly love. I teach them I warn them over & over again to stay away from the pool and explain that they may drown.

But some of my children are curious, adventurous, naive, & possibly defiant.
And I as a wise parent I am aware of this. I know my children well.
So what is the proper/moral action to take as a loving ,wise & responsible parent ?
Leave the swimming pool unfenced, unguarded & the conviction that the evil children deserve what they get for not listening to me or do I fence in the pool or get rid of it all together, because I understand human nature all too well & want to protect my children at all costs ?

Now remember we are talking about drowning/death not even eternal torture.

Yes, I didn't put my children into the pool, they had free will. But I didn't take the precautions to protect them at all costs by removing the danger.

Suffering may sometimes be a learning experience but eternal death not alone hell are not. There are no second chances to correct ones mistakes.

Eternal suffering is the most horrendous cruelty possible & imaginable. Period.

I suppose the same could be said for the religious text you have in your signature?

......................Hi Sandee It's Joey. You being a Catholic and me being a Full Pentecostal Christian. We use the same Holy Bible. As i have said in many of my last posts. There is only one Gospel (THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST). This is why we teach our new baby Christian to read the book John. This teaches them why Jesus was born into our world, Why He taught His Father Word and Why He shed His Blood for us on the Cross. If people would just read the book of (ACTS) they would realize this is the birth of the true Church of Jesus Christ.This is why i always say any Doctrine preached after the book of Acts is (False Doctrine). If people would read the book of John and Acts they would not be lead (ASTRAY).By False Prophets.

I am not catholic, I don't know why you would think I was, I do apprciate the information you provided, You are always prepared with your post, Thank you Always a pleasure

did anything I write say it was a miracle ? no. and I don't believe there was. And no I wasn't deadset against believing in miracles , but wanted proof. If one has brain cancer one day and the next is healed - I want to see reports and films. No one's word is good enough especially on a post.

Even if it was by God that I experienced what I did. It still says me that I'm doing what is right for me and that I don't need Jesus to get to God . If one feels they need organized religion . fine. But it cements for me that all , without restriction of religion , go back to God. No hell , no sin , no jesus , no bible or koran or torah . All go.

so don't worry I won't be banging a bible or koran or anything like that . I'm doing just fine.

you could say that helped reinforce what I believe now .

that's your opinion. not a fact.

Aren't you a druid or something like that. So actually it would be your "gods" that would be intentionally leading you there.

The Christian God offers eternal life in Heaven through Jesus Christ.

You did accknowlege that God may have had some part in what you experienced, I am sorry I don't remember the post but I was just making a point, You do have things that happen in your life and have the option of seeing it as a miricle or just life. I saw in your post that despite what I thought, You are capable of seeing that God could have played a part in your vision or recovery. I am not being condesending or offensive, I was just impressed, Always a pleasure

yes it could !!!! exactly.

no don't be offended. I didn't mean to come off as that. sorry.

But my view of God isn't your view. We are both looking at the same God, just from different viewpoints. and the 'my way is the right and only way' thinking is what is killing people spiritually I believe. that God is somehow incapable , too small , or too inbeded in one religion to encompass and be in all.

was it a miracle ? I don't know. honestly. It could have been the stress. plain and simple. It could have been 'God'.

the 2 dreams I had were years before the surguries. And the singing ? well I was at a gay function , in a gay based church supporting the Gay Mens Choir. ( one of my friends sings with them) . expected to have surgery in a couple of days. alot of stress.

yes God could have played a part. God of my understanding and how I see God.

I just didn't want to be hog tied and branded and suddenly lumped in under a christian heading which is why I rarely , until now , speak of it. But again I can't prove a thing , nor am I suggesting they were 'miracles' .

WalkingWithFire "You're not considered a child of God unless you accept Jesus Christ. So yes, many who do not accept will be cast into the lake of fire."
Darkwind: How sad, makes my glad I am not a Christian, because I couldn't follow a being who would do something like that. It would brake my heart to put anyone in pain like that for all eternity. Nope I am not going along with that, there is something wrong with that kind of attitude in a supposedly loving God. I am a child of the Earth anyway.

I am Catholic and certainly do not subscribe to that view, WWF. Those who choose to follow Jesus Christ are greatly privileged with His teachings, sacraments and the Eucharist - and yet we are nonchalant with the privileges and arrogant with them. Not that it is an easy path to follow with the sacrifice and suffering demanded.

We are all children of God. To qualify for hell you must Truly Understand the consequences of your actions of rejecting good and God ... this includes being forever out of reach of creativity, beauty, kindness, friendships, etc. I wonder if even Hitler understood. And I trust that God is Just and will give us numerous opportunities to repent even if our wrongs are terrible.

......................Sorry about the mistake. You should not waste to much time on (The person you are working with). We all bear fruit after our own kind. We bear fruit after our Lord (Jesus Christ) and this person bears fruit after their kind (Satan). All you can do is keep this person in your prayers that some how Jesus will touch them again and remove hurt from their heart. This person has known Jesus at one time. This person knows the Gospel very well be careful with this one. Because out of the mouth comes Blessing and out of the mouth comes cursing. Sandee I leave you with scripture Romans 8:31 -What then shall we say to these things? If (GOD) is for us, who can be against us. Joey

You have been a member here for quite sometime and you have not told your accounts of what happene to you until now, I understand your not wanting to be labeled as something your not I am honored you chose to tell us about things you consider very intimate and personal. That takes alot of guts to put your self out there like that, You obviously have a great amount of respect from people here at UM. I for one am glad to listen, Always a pleasure

I find it interesting that this thread has generated more, what could be defined as, "frivolous" comments than most. I guess that may be because of the deep division between a christian attitude to prophecy, and that of an athiest.(or perhaps more generally between those who accept the paranormal as real, and those who do not)

There are also other, non christian religions, which accept prophecy, both past and contemporary.

Sandee, from a biblical perspective, there are clear cut tests, most of which have been mentioned here.The main one is that it must match the bible teachings, and anything counter to the bible is considered false prophecy. To a non believer, of course, this is redundant logic (of course the bible would say that)

To a non christian I would ask, do you accept examples of non biblical prophecy(eg mundane paranormal prophecy) any more readily than biblical prophecy. If your answer is yes, ask your self why this is so.l

Prophecy exists today in many shapes and forms. Telling the future is, of course, prophecy. Prophecies come in dreams, visions and aural communications, that I know of, but there may be other forms. Prophecies come not just of a religious nature, but also of mundane things. Some are big things(life saving). Some are small.

Personally, I think prophecy speaks to the nature of god, the nature of humanity and the inter-relationship between the two. Because we are made in the nature of god, sometimes we interact with the universe in an almost godly way, and see possible scenarios from the future. We can act on these to change them, but sometimes this is not necessary.

God, who has a much clearer "universal "view of probabilities, often sends prophetic messages to warn us of future events and to prepare us for them.

My personal experiences of prophecy (most of which I have described elsewhere) range from the "ridiculous" to the sublime . I get little flashes of future events. One case was simply seeing a yahtzee in threes, a couple of minutes before it happened. (Luckilly I wrote this prediction down and was able to show the other players when the yahtzee occurred)

Another was a brief auditory warning, a few seconds before what would have been a fatal accident for me. One was a dream where I saw "verbatim" a news report 24 hours before the news report ran, and 12 hours before the physical event occurred. Again, fortunately, I described this dream to a number of people before the real thing ran on the news. Of course, mostly, you do not know what is going to turn out to be a prophetic dream/'"vision" and so you don't take the precaution of describing it to an independent witness.
The visions are not always pictorial, although the dreams are. Some of them are like what I get when I find a lost object; an inner knowledge or "memory" of an event, even though it has not yet occurred.

My earliest remembered experience was as a teenager where I was "reading" the cards a friend was drawing from the pack. I had got about 20 exactly right in a row. when it seemed I was starting to get them wrong, but no, I was starting to predict, exactly, the cards he would draw, before either he or I could "see" them. I predicted correctly, and in exact sequence, another half dozen or so cards, before my friend refused to go on . He was terrified by the experience . I was bemused, but intrigued.

This may have been because I had a dim awareness of an hereditary ability. My mother, although she denied it, had moments of prophecy which terrified her. She eventually admitted to this, and described a european ancestor, who was both a gypsy, and a fortune teller. This was a coulple of centuries before. My mum, bless her, has a detailed history /genealogy of her family going back to before the time when they accompanied William the conquerer from france on his successful invasion of england (1066 and all that)

I have talked about the other examples before, and some are quite long and complex, so I won't go into them again. You will note that some had no religious component at all. Others came as a part of a "package," explicitly and clearly from "god", with the obvious purpose of saving my life and that of my wife.

I do surreptitious tests on my kids in english classes. These are harmless. I never let the kids know what I am doing, and I keep my findings to myself, but a small percentage of young people have noticeable abilities to make predictive statements. Others consistently demonstrate an apparent ability to read the minds of either myself, or others in the class. It just fascinates me.

I don't know that the answer to my question will ever come, Other than the bible there are no answers only opinons. I do apprciaite the information you have provided, I think we all have intitution some listen and some ignore it. I think a mothers intitution is worth studing, I have experienced this intitution and heard many stories about how a parents intitution saved their child in some way, Always a pleasure

I"m not offended, but amused. As per my post above, god speaks to me, and I to him. This you find "false" and yet, should it happen to you, THEN SHALL YE BELIEVE.

I will apply your own logic and continue to "believe," (actually know is a better word) because god has "spoken" to me. If you are fortunate enough to have this happen to you, then I will believe you, as well.

I will admit that my personal experience does make me more open to the claims of others, but with all the caveats of logic and reason. ( I no longer find the existence of god either illogical, or unreasonable)

you could be called psychic , nothing to do with God. Plenty of people who are not christians experience exactly what you discribe.

I agree.

Many false prophets have been and will come, they can be recognised by pious people, you analyse their message, ask for proof, proof of gods word and revelation, no mistakes no contradictions no lies, gotta be perfection, if its not, its false. There is an acid test for testing false prophets in the bible too, cant remember which verse, i wll try and find it for you.

Sorry my fault I should have been a little clearer, what I meant was if God comes forward himself in some grand kind of event ,where everyone sees and not just me, because If I just experienced it myself...I would think I was going insane.



I am sure some of you might have actually had some sort of experience but the thing is there are so many out their who claim such things and are blatantly lying that it makes it hard to believe anyone especially when everyone has conflicting stories.

Wasn't Jesus a false prophet ?



Jesus, although primarily a moral teacher, also issued a few prophecies.

Most significant was the expectation that his second coming would happen in short order ( Mark 9:1) and before the original generation of his disciples had died off ( Matt. 23:36; 24:34).

This was a false expectation, plain and simple, that cannot be made true at any future time, and it is sufficient to prove that Jesus was neither infallible nor God.

.......................John 3: Verse,21-Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass that (Jesus) also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heavens was opened. verse,22-And the (Holy Spirit) descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him,(Jesus) and a voice came from heaven which said, " You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased." God The Father, The Son Jesus and The Holy Spirit. All three in the same place. Also Jesus never told his Disciples (He) would come back in there live time. Read the book of Acts in reality, the only book in the New King James Holy Bible that has never been closed is Acts. I am one of the Born again full Pentecostal Christian Birth from the True Church of Jesus Christ out of the book of Acts.

great post,Always a pleasure

In all due respect yes, and now explain the other verses I posted ? I thought the bible is the infallible,inerrant word of god ?

I don't play pick my favorite parts .

Sorry, but did that remind anyone else of those World of Warcraft commercials where Mr T calls himself a Night Elf Mohawk?


I think the bible is a great book. I think it has some good points, and the world would probably be a better place if more people followed the 10 commandments and all that. That being said, if you're going to claim the bible as an absolute fact, with no room for interpretation, you can't just dismiss the passages that you don't like.

......................I will cross reference these scriptures so you can understand the meaning of them. Matt.23:34-36, Jesus gives a stern warning of judgment upon the nation. The prophecy of Jesus came to pass with the destruction of Jerusalem in a.d.70. All of the righteous blood shed, from the first victim (Abel, Gen.4:8) To the last (Zechariah, 2 Chr.24:20-22),will be required of Israel........Matt.24:32-35, As the budding of trees signifies the coming of summer,the signs described by Jesus will give warning of His coming. Even the present generation would witness the destruction of Jerusalem (v.34), which was a type of events connected with Christ's return.............Mark.9:1, Present with power: The Transfiguration, a visible experience of kingdom power, observed six days later by three disciples, was a foretaste of both the Resurrection and Second Coming of Jesus.

.......................You should probably think before you speak. You probably don't even know what any of the ten commandments are. We are not even under the Law anymore . Jesus came to full fill the Law. That is why we live in (Grace) it was to hard for anyone to live under the Law. You should read the Bible from cover to cover then you would understand that it's not just a good book but the true word of God. The same God you will stand before at judgment day and give an account for your life and what you did for Him while you were on earth. I will pray for you that God will touch your life...............

I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
—Matthew 16:21-28 (NIV)

so have you seen any 2000 year old Jews lately ?

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34


now really read Matthew 24.. it is very obvious , painfully obvious , that he is speaking to and about his followers at that time. the 'world' then in speech is not the world now as we know it. which is why in depth he only mentions places like Judea. the world consisted of what they knew. America didn't exist in their world. the World was flat. Their world was how far they could walk and whom they traded with. His 'return' was meant solely for them.

understand the culture and the time and you'd know that.

a) I do think before I speak. I also think before I type, which is what I did here.

b ) Uh....I went to Catholic school for 13 years....I had to be able to list and explain the 10 commandments in two languages to pass my 6th grade christian ethics class. I HAVE read the bible cover to cover, I don't believe it is the word of God, and if God wanted to touch my life, he had ample opportunity while I was a practicing Catholic. Or when I left the Catholic church and dabbled in good old fashioned Christianity.

I believe that the bible was written by well meaning individuals, not by God. Somewhere along the way, a bunch of people decided that it was a "fact" not just a compilation of moral lessons.

From now on I'm going to refer to One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish as a fact.... wait...both books refer to multiplying fish! Maybe our beliefs aren't so different afterall.

1. That says all. Moreover, it hints that true prophet exists, else you won't have those verses teaching how to identify a false prophet
2. There's no direct verses saying that whoever declares himself a prophet is a false prophet
3. There will be 2 witnessed atleast in the last days

Basically, a prophet is sent when God sees fit, instead of being judged by human to say if this is needed and whatnot.

.............................Matt:16:28- Jesus is pointing toward the encounter that some standing here will see at His Transfiguration. Matt.17:1-8 The ones closest to him Peter, James and John This scripture has nothing to do with the second coming of Jesus Christ it was to confirm a visible transformation, affirming the essential glory of Jesus as the Messiah. You should get yourself a cross reference book to study the word of (God). The bible says to study the Word of (God) to prove your self worthy and believe me I study all the time. (Jesus Ascends to Heaven). Acts.1:11-Who also said, Men of Galilee,why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven. From Matt. to the book Jude. We should have established that (Jesus) is in Heaven and still there until His second coming. From this point back to Genesis is the past. We are now living in the book of Revelation. This topic was suppose to be on Prophecy. Daniel is considered one of the greatest prophets of all time. If you study the book of Daniel he Prophesied of the first coming of Christ (Dan.9:24-27) and also Jesus's second coming Dan:12:1-13. and also Prophesied almost all of Revelation.

you forgot one point - the bible is nothing more than opinion written by man. Scholars concider Daniel post dated. to fit prophesy.

According to James Kelhoffer, an assistant professor of theological studies at Saint Louis University:

"Many people who have interpreted the rich symbolism and mythology of [Revelation] have read into it to reflect on a world cataclysm within their lifetime. It greatly misunderstands ancient Jewish and Christian prophets who always talk about apocalypses within their own time, not several centuries hence.

.........................Boy if you really want to read something good pull up my post preview #1999802 it might be real interesting to you......

Why would I go through your old posts? I'm bored, but I'm not that bored. Do you not have anything valid to add?

One more point to add is, scholars are not more spiritual than a usual Christian. And the different scholars from different schools (that's why they are the scholars ). So scholars are not necessarily be spiritual sources, to interpret the Bible verses spiritually.

......................What are you talking about.

.....................It is about your Roman Catholic Church...........

Why would I care what you had to say about the Catholic church? I'm no longer Catholic, which you would have known had you actually read my post Anything you had to say, I'm sure I have heard before. Who memorizes their post numbers? that's just bizzarre.